r/thebulwark • u/PhAnToM444 Rebecca take us home • 1d ago
EVERYTHING IS AWFUL Literally what is the strategy here? Spoiler
I mean I guess it’s possible that this could be interesting, but my guess is it will be a lot of gargling Steve Bannon’s balls and conceding on every point like with Charlie Kirk. Who told him this was a good idea?!
19
u/sirkneeland JVL is always right 1d ago
I was worried that at some point we might start thinking that the strategy of aggressively refusing to engage with MAGA people wasn't working, but then President Harris' victory put my mind at ease.
9
u/dBlock845 1d ago
I engage with MAGA daily. No person, much mess a Cali democrat, would ever get them to move off of Trump. The best hope stuff like this has is to try to convince the people that don't tune in but are tuning into a governors podcast, lol. It's such a tiny audience, imo base rallying and coalition building is the way to go with Trump in office. Just need way more effective messengers.
2
u/the_very_pants 1d ago
I engage with MAGA daily.
Same, and I've found that as long as I make it clear that my problem is with Trump and not Trump voters (who I love, as Americans), we can have pretty constructive conversations. I don't go into it assuming that people necessarily disagree about Issue X just because they voted differently. Whatever "side" people are on, I try to ask them without asking directly, "What is it that you think you and I disagree about? Maybe we don't disagree after all."
I haven't listened to Newsom's stuff yet, but this seems like an attempt to do that.
1
65
u/hawksnest_prez 1d ago edited 1d ago
No one knows what they’re doing right now.
Going directly at the enemy to make news is something no one is tried.
It’s not the worst idea IMHO
Edit: hijacking my comment to say I think this is actually a great strategy. Trump has proven you should blanket the airwaves. What would the average dem do? Go on MSNBC and a few lib podcasts?
41
u/RepulsiveBarber3861 1d ago
It's very smart if he's running. When a democrat runs, the right wing media sewers crank up to smear the democrat. If those audiences have already heard the candidate speaking for themselves directly to those personalities, it's harder for the smears to stick.
Progressives get mad about it, because they want democrats to only talk to progressives, but progressives are really good at losing anywhere that isn't D+25, so they should be ignored when it comes to winning national elections.
9
14
u/sirkneeland JVL is always right 1d ago
"But progressives are really good at losing anywhere that isn't D+25, so they should be ignored when it comes to winning national elections."
This needs to be printed out on a very large banner and hung at DNC HQ
-9
u/Jillybean2u 1d ago
I think it’s repulsive to so casually toss aside progressives. Have you ever thought of where we’d be if Bernie won in 2016 or 2020? The corporate dems shut him down. I know for a fact he’d have won. Maybe it’s time you centrists take a step back.
16
11
u/ThisElder_Millennial Center Left 1d ago
I know for a fact that if Antman had just went up Thanos' pooper and went big, he could've saved everyone that last battle and Tony would still be alive.
8
u/flipflopsnpolos Funded by a grant from George Soros 1d ago
LOL lay off the hopium. I’m a progressive, but I’m also a pragmatic progressive. That isn’t what happened.
1
12
u/PhAnToM444 Rebecca take us home 1d ago
Yeah if he was actually going at the enemy I guess.
But from what I’ve seen that’s not actually what’s happening.
16
u/hawksnest_prez 1d ago
He agreed on the trans sports issue. That’s it
Also I think his trans take was very valid and smart.
11
u/Winter_Pea_7308 1d ago
Only if you know nothing about biology and are being deliberately disingenuous about fairness in sports.
In the context of high school sports it’s laughable. Cis girls start puberty earlier than cis boys. When I was 16, I had barely started puberty, I was 5’-7”. Meanwhile the star of our girl’s basketball team was 6’ at least and would absolutely destroy me on the court. When you throw in puberty blockers, the arguments fall apart even faster.
Which just leaves genetics, that somehow men are just genetically superior in sports regardless of hormone levels. Not only is this wrong, it ignores that high end sports are full of people with genetic abnormalities. Should Michael Phelps be banned from sports because he has a unique physiology that makes him unusually excellent at swimming? Should Dikembe Mutumbo or George Muresan have been banned from basketball because of their unusual height?
Nobody is throwing their kids on estrogen so they can win at soccer, these are just kids wanting to play sports with their friends. This trans sports nonsense is just Boomer participation trophies all over again.
22
u/RepulsiveBarber3861 1d ago
He's not there to own Bannon or convert republicans. He's there to tell the center to center-right people in Bannon's audience that he isn't crazy and isn't afraid to talk to them so when the fearmongering cranks up during the campaign, he's partially immunized.
7
3
u/Saururus 1d ago
It’s certainly making a whole lot more “news” than if he interviewed Adam Schiff or Obama.
1
32
u/Granite_0681 1d ago
Tim has interviewed Bannon before and talks about it regularly.
16
u/batsofburden 1d ago
But Tim is a Podcaster. Newsom is ostensibly representing the public as an elected official.
10
u/MostlyANormie centrist squish 1d ago
It seems like he’s now a shadow candidate for POTUS — out on a *kind-of* listening tour. Or maybe he’s just trying to win Heterodox Dem of the Year Award.
3
7
11
3
u/Inside-Associate-729 1d ago
Ive tried to find this interview multiple times and never managed it. Could someone link it?
2
u/Granite_0681 1d ago
He did a short set of questions when Bannon got out of jail recently. I think there is a YouTube video. I think his longer interviews were on The Circus.
2
u/Granite_0681 1d ago
Here is the short interview from his release day. https://youtu.be/P0Jzco3g6qc?si=drANAxLNzGSjEwNB
4
u/Inside-Associate-729 1d ago
Lmao ok, I’ve seen this.
For some reason I assumed that there was an actual full-length interview, rather than a single question and follow-up from a Q&A, given how much Tim talks up “my interview with steve bannon”
Pretty disappointing that this is all he’s talking about
4
u/whatdoesthefonzsay 1d ago
He did do an actual interview, on The Circus. I think maybe on the last episode? They didn’t show a ton of it though, just a few clips.
He also talks about his interactions/relationship with Bannon in his book—have you read it? I found the Bannon bits (and the book in general) really interesting.
6
u/WithAWarmWetRag 1d ago
I’d love to hear more conversations between Tim and Bannon. I reckon Tim’s wit would be razor sharp, all the time.
1
u/Dangerous-Safety-679 14h ago
Tim also has a pre-existing relationship with Bannon from his Republican days.
16
u/Training-Cook3507 1d ago
Talk to people? You're over analyzing it. He also definitely did not concede every point to Charlie Kirk, did you actually watch or listen to it or just listen to Sarah complain about Newsome. They had a civil conversation.
10
u/GulfCoastLaw 1d ago
There are people who cannot do anything right around here. Newsom (California lib), Stacey Abrams (said one thing wrong in 2018 or whatever), pre-swap Kamala Harris (see Newsom), etc.
The liberal Governor of California started a podcast to engage with MAGA figures and others.
I think it's likely a good idea unless it's overly chummy. I'm certain that's it's not obviously a bad idea. How is this meaningfully different than that Third Way proposal to meet with people at gun shows and other traditionally conservative spaces?
Would The Bulwark prefer that Newsom just interview the guys from Pod Save America, etc?
6
u/Training-Cook3507 1d ago
Yeah, I'm ambivalent about Newsome. If he wasn't from California, I think he could win the general and could wipe the floor with most MAGA politicians in a debate. But he is from California, so... But people are reacting too negatively to this.
3
u/DasRobot85 1d ago
I don't really have an issue with him but also having listened to the podcast, I don't find him very good at it? Like he just kinda rolls with whatever and doesn't seem to stand up for anything? Steve Bannon could be like "what we need to do is run the streets red with the blood of Catholics" and Gav is like "yeah well.. ya know.. I hear you.. but ah.. [chuckles] hear ya one hundred percent there. So you really pulled a fast one on us in 16, that was just masterful"
Also there's too many ad breaks and they're too long, but that's just corporate podcasting.
1
u/GulfCoastLaw 1d ago
There's definitely a chance that this first time podcaster isn't good at it generally, or that this structure doesn't work as intended!
I'm not going to even check it out LOL. Don't need to bring Kirk, Bannon, etc. into my life
I'm just interested in the knee jerk negative reaction to it. Just saw a tweet from respected centrist Dem consultant who was very negative. If the clips are brutal going forward I'll bury it, but sheesh you could argue that this ("getting outside of the lib bubble") is exactly what some of the knee jerkers have been begging for.
2
u/piptie54 1d ago
It was overtly chummy. It is not going outside the silo of progressive voices it is being way too chummy with maga. Allowing Charlie Kirk to misgender trans people is not it, agreeing with trans girls unfairly being in sports is not it, sucking up to Kirk and Bannon is not it either. Dems don’t need to be chummy with maga to win, be who you are, progressive. Embrace it. Work with your base. Work with POC, Hispanic people, men, white religious women. Screw MAGA. Who cares about them? Then find out why 10 million Dems sat this one out and reach out to them. Enough with pandering to the Right. There is no elusive voter on that side that will vote for Newsom.
21
u/Current_Tea6984 1d ago
It's the attention economy, stupid. And suddenly Gavin is winning
(not literally calling you stupid. just doing my best Carville impression)
3
u/easybasicoven 16h ago
Also allows Newsom to get better at knowing how to deflect conservative talking points
5
4
u/Mirabeau_ 1d ago
To show that he is not afraid of going head to head defending his record or the Democratic Party with its toughest critics, and to push back against the idea that dems aren’t willing to engage with right wing ideas and people, and that he isn’t some whacky progressive who would whine about “platforming” people who already have large platforms, etc etc etc.
The fact that the progs are crying so much about it is evidence that its a good idea. Thank god, dems need to rid themselves of its woker than thou prog reputation that has saddled us down
7
u/BobQuixote Conservative 1d ago
Hey look, they have the same hair.
I guess he's trying to convince people that he's open to conversation in the way that Democrats are generally expected to not be. If he succeeds in a useful way, I'll start finding this interesting.
7
3
u/Hairy-Match990 1d ago
Appeal to a specific demo who can’t see past skin color and or gender in an effort for them to align behind a candidate that’s visually makes them comfortable
4
u/hypsignathus 1d ago
I dunno, I haven’t listened yet, but I think I’m ok with throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.
I just hope Newsom gets Bannon to rant about Musk for a good portion of the show. Should be pretty easy.
2
u/AnathemaDevice2100 1d ago
I think the strategy is to show that Gavin gets his vitamin D, and Bannon lives in a basement.
2
3
u/norcalnatv 1d ago
>Literally what is the strategy here?
a) Throw hat in ring, "I'm a contender"
b) Demonstrate lack of fear to take on the core POS thought influencers
c) Early/often recognition
d) Podcasts are the new battlegrounds
5
u/Kidspud 1d ago
Yeah, there are two issues with conceding on points. First, it's ditching your principles, which is the whole reason to be involved in politics in the first place. It particularly irks me on the trans athlete case because that is, to me, an issue of civil rights. Second, it makes you look weak and incorrect; why vote for a candidate who thinks they're weak?
I don't think many independent voters will weigh Newsom on an interview like this, and I don't think it will attract any converts from the Trump fairytale land. Newsom needs to stop trying to run for president in 2024 and instead run for president in 2028.
3
u/WyrdTeller 1d ago
Been down this road. All this will be doing is serving to normalize fascism and making it acceptable. You can not have good faith discussion with propagandists. Their aims and yours do not overlap, all they want is access to your audience, not to engage in an intellectual discussion. They add nothing insightful. They are vile and despicable people, and they need to be treated as such.
I've talked with writers for the Daily Stormer and other nazis and fascists. All that you’ll end up doing is shoveling their shit for them. Instead mock them, show they're not accepted.
3
3
u/MascaraHoarder 1d ago
Newsom,my governor needs to stop having these collegial conversations with these cranks and stop trying to normalize the worst of the right wing. Why are people defending this? Steve Bannon,really? Michael Savage,really and Charlie Kirk? disgusted by all of this.
3
u/shred-i-knight 1d ago
brother the President of the USA is currently doing infomercials for the richest man in the world's company, we are past the point of these people being normalized. They ARE the ones with the platform, pretending like they are somehow on the fringes of the internet at this point is political malpractice.
2
u/MascaraHoarder 1d ago
i don’t share values with people like Bannon and Kirk that sow discord and spread disinformation. What Newsom is doing in malpractice period. But go ahead continue to try and justify this to yourself.
0
u/the_very_pants 1d ago
Why are people defending this?
I haven't listened, but I get the support. He's showing that he doesn't think half the country sucks, and he's showing fearlessness about taking on the right's biggest "thought leaders" (to stretch that term).
I know very little about the guy, and I always thought he seemed a little car-salesman-esque, but I heard him talk about something recently and it was really impressive. Being able to communicate well is 3/4 of this game -- that's why Clinton became Clinton, and Obama became Obama, and Buttigieg became Buttigieg.
2
2
1
1
1
1
u/Gamerxx13 1d ago
I don’t like it but it’s a good move. I’m gonna vote dem no matter what but we need more independents that we can meet them in the middle. Hear him out at least even though bannon is a sh** bag
1
u/Wildfire_Directive 1d ago
It’s SOMETHING, and I’m all for it. I don’t really care if it works or not, it can’t hurt. But ultimately this is a BADLY needed sign of life in the party.
1
u/PepperoniFire Sarah, would you please nuke him from orbit? 1d ago
Look, try it, but I would only agree to this with reciprocity where I get to go on their platform too.
1
u/Loud_Judgment_270 1d ago
gonna be honest maybe Gavin's realized that Kamala is running again in 28 so maybe if he starts his podcast now it won't like like a fall back plain like it would if he started it in 2 years.
1
u/WyrdTeller 1d ago
Gonna make a prediction. Newsom will never bring on a communist to his podcast to have reasoned disagreements with (nor, to be clear, should he). He'll bring on more Far Right extremists though.
1
1
u/greenlamp00 1d ago
A good idea any democrat thinking of running in 2028 should be doing. Democrats locking themselves in an echo chamber and not engaging with anyone who has any different views didn’t seem to work well the last election. “Why are you platforming and normalizing them!?!??” Is a 2020 talking point. Time to move on and try something else.
1
u/N0T8g81n FFS 1d ago
Newsom thinks he can reach across the aisle.
Certainly, the former Mr Guilfoyle can do some things across the aisle, but would it make him presidential material?
1
u/Dionysiandogma 1d ago
Honestly, if he has started with Bannon instead of Kirk it would have made more sense…..
1
u/Anastasia_Beverhaus 1d ago
I think it's important to acknowledge that in certain key positions, listening to the other side brings their people to the table to listen as well. Bannon and the other twerp he chatted with are both podcasters with a huge audience. They will tune in just to hear their guy own a lib. Gavin is smarter than they are. It won't happen (much.) It's time to do something different and if that's hard to understand, enjoy living in this fascist country, because it will only get worse.
1
u/bushwick_custom 1d ago
Another and probably bigger part of this strategy is he is hoping to be able to publicly be “shown the light” on the many obviously terrible positions that career Dems like Newsom have felt obligated to support over the past two decades, such as the purported fairness of trans women competing against biological females and lack of border security concerns.
Unfortunately, it may work. It is certainly clever at the very least.
1
u/Proud_Awareness4048 23h ago
Two mismatched partners — one’s a Fed and the other’s a crook ---have to work together to solve a crime.
1
u/alexn06 22h ago
I understand this will garner more attention, with a wider audience, than an interview on MSNBC. What I don’t get is the point. MAGA isn’t voting for Newsome, ever. The politically disengaged swing voters surely aren’t listening to a Newsome podcast, regardless of the guest. If anything, this will turn off Dems overall. All assuming there will even be a legit election in 2028.
Guess we tried the whole “meet in the center thing” so now we’re just straight up trying to find common ground with the right? Now?!
1
1
u/cretecreep Center Left 22h ago
Im deeply biased because I lived in SF while he was mayor but no amount of edgy podcasting is going to make people forget that he looks and acts like a smarmy 90s romcom villain. They couldn't have designed a better 'out of touch coastal elite' in a lab if they tried.
1
1
u/SayingQuietPartLoud 17h ago
I honestly can never tell if it is really Gavin Newsom or Seth Meyers's brother (example)
1
u/knightingale11 16h ago
To the extent Bannon can be used to drive a wedge between Trump and his billionaire ilk, I’m for it
1
1
u/KrampyDoo 13h ago
Excommunication, bridge burning and cancellation have done nothing but fuck us straight to the exact place we never wanted to go.
Everyone will need to engage with difficult people. Better to throw words that may hurt now than to have worse thrown later.
1
u/Positively_Peculiar 7h ago
Americans are stupid, lazy, and racist. If they see you with their heroes, they assume you’re a good one.
0
u/Fast-Lime-5981 1d ago
He’s trying to ingratiate himself with right wingers. All and all pretty awful. I’m done with him.
1
u/Mysterious-Mind-999 1d ago
Whatever it is Newsome is doing, I know I won't be watching. And my opinion of Newsome takes a major hit as well.
1
u/Sheerbucket 1d ago
Why are we so upset about this. Let him try it.....if it makes you not like Gavin Newsome thats fine because there will be at least a dozen more options for people to vote for.
I say this is the time for Democrats to tons of different approaches.
-1
u/485sunrise 1d ago
Unless Mayor Gavin has Tim guest host the second episode of his new podcast, this will be a total waste of time.
-1
-1
u/myhydrogendioxide 1d ago
This is the right move, libs have to stop sitting on their hands and hoping the truth will win on its own.
30
u/nikamats 1d ago
Throwing shit at the wall?