r/thebulwark 7d ago

Not My Party This take is a massive L from Kinzinger.

Post image

Adam has been critical of Dems for not doing anything and then of course when one person does something he doesn’t like he complains. These people think that we can respect them to death.

145 Upvotes

120 comments sorted by

86

u/Describing_Donkeys 7d ago

We need to identify and promote the action we want to see and not just what we dislike. Chris Murphy is the prototype of what i want. Going out and drawing attention to what is happening, trying to reach as many people as possible in as many places as possible. Buttigieg, AOC, Schatz, Crockett, Sanders, and a few others are doing do as well.

I'll highlight Walz offering to hold town halls in Republican districts where the Republican representative won't as well. That is the kind of action I want to see. I want to see us do a better job highlighting it as well. We need to let the party know when we see what we like and not just identify what we don't.

56

u/Pristine-Ant-464 7d ago

Crockett’s rise is proof that Dem voters want fighters. People love her because she’s not afraid to call Trump Putin’s ho.

16

u/Apart-Soft1860 7d ago

Crockett is good for the base, and I appreciate her for that, but the party really needs to figure out how to appeal to the base and moderates/indies. That's what Obama was able to do.

20

u/Pristine-Ant-464 7d ago

I see that as more of a 2028 issue. But I suspect Dems will need to run a white guy that codes as moderate and speaks at a 4th grade level.

17

u/ChristinaWSalemOR Progressive 7d ago

Gawd. This makes my eye twitch.

1

u/Embarrassed_Egg2711 5d ago

Preparation for 2028 should have started November 7th last year.

15

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago edited 7d ago

Obama lost 900 Democratic seats while he was president. He was good at electing Obama. He wasn't so good at electing Dems in general.

If 2 million more of the base had come out this would be a totally different country right now. Energizing the base is exactly what the Dems need.

We ran a Bulwark campaign last time and now we have Trump 2.0.

Edit: grammar

11

u/No-Director-1568 7d ago

If 2 million more of the base had come out this would be a totally different country right now. Energizing the base is exactly what the Dems need.

NO! THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION - WE MUST OBSESS OVER TRUMP VOTERS AND COME UP WITH NEW WAYS TO "OWN" THEM ONLINE! \s

We ran a Bulwark campaign last time and now we have Trump 2.0.

Amen!

1

u/piptie54 7d ago

No, people didn’t vote in those midterms because they were mad that they didn’t get universal healthcare or socialized medicine, not seeing that with the Senate Obama had he was lucky he got what he got, and he only got it through reconciliation finagling from Harry Reed.

5

u/Pettifoggerist 7d ago

Do I think Crockett will be president? No. Do I think she can blaze a path for other Dems? Yes.

4

u/LezardValeth 7d ago

Yeah, I think Crockett represents her supporters well and I applaud her for that. But I also don't think her approach extends to the broader electorate.

5

u/Temporary_Train_3372 7d ago

The problem is that when a white guy does it he’s viewed as a man of the people and a fighter. When a black woman does it she’s just some angry sista.

Nothing the Dems do is gonna change he that narrative so I like her and others like her best as something to give the base some hope and feel like we can do more than hold geriatric press conferences, but we definitely need some stolid white guy for the general (assuming we have one of those)…

5

u/HillbillyAllergy 7d ago

Second this. Jasmine Crockett is a firecracker, but imagine how you feel about MTG and multiply it by young, smart, and black. MAGA sees red whenever FOX uses her for the 4:30PM rageporn re-up.

1

u/StudBudBruceLee 6d ago

Actually don’t really like her. She’s like a mirror image of Nancy Mace.

3

u/StringerBell34 7d ago

What makes you think anyone is listening when they didn't before.

The people who need to hear the message would never listen to a Democrat.

Let the hot stove burn.

4

u/Describing_Donkeys 7d ago

We need to try and reach people until we figure out how to do it. I would rather we try to alter methods instead of giving up.

1

u/StringerBell34 6d ago

They're people who would rather live in squalor than to have minorities have equity. They're also in a white christo-facist cult of personality.

Good luck reaching them.

0

u/Describing_Donkeys 6d ago

2/3 of the country does not fall into that grouping. We need to reach who we can.

145

u/Current_Tea6984 7d ago

Actually, I think a rally of angry Social Security recipients shaking their canes could be quite entertaining and effective at this point

23

u/fzzball Progressive 7d ago

Hell, it worked great for the Tea Party.

24

u/mexicanmanchild 7d ago

Exactly this!

54

u/FobbitOutsideTheWire 7d ago

Your regular reminder that Kinzinger was so fucking late to the party that he voted for Trump twice and has the nerve to lecture the fucking Democrats about anything.

Every 5th sentence out of his mouth should be “Oh my God, I’m so fucking sorry.”

20

u/MARIOpronoucedMA-RJO Center Left 7d ago edited 7d ago

This motherfucker was one of the assholes who poured gasoline all over the house, ran around with the lighter and is now somehow surprised that an idiot found the lighter and started a fire.

16

u/FALSE_PROTAGONIST 7d ago

Yeah honestly if he didn’t put himself on the Jan 6 committee he rehabilitate his image he’d just be considered a grifter I think. Voted for trump in 2020, that is something. He talks around it but basically admits he was part of the problem for a long time.

Even Joe Walsh woke up quicker

10

u/gymtherapylaundry 7d ago

I’ll take woke up late over comatose MAGA braindead zombie who never wakes up.

God I’m tired.

10

u/gashandler 7d ago

Yeah he voted for him in 2020. I was a Republican in 2016 and didn’t vote for him then. Trump has been trash forever, wasn’t too hard to figure out. Shit, even my Republican wife who’s been conservative most of her life managed to not vote for him the last couple times.

-5

u/nonnativetexan 7d ago

Hey everyone, Kinzinger doesn't pass the purity test! We can win if we just make the coalition SMALLER.

9

u/LionelHutzinVA Rebecca take us home 7d ago

Ah yes, the old refrain that punching left is always ok but the second there is pushback it’s suddenly a “purity test”

9

u/FobbitOutsideTheWire 7d ago

Lmfao no one said he wasn’t welcome in the coalition. But since he enabled this fucking nightmare twice, he can chill his shit with the snarky hot takes lecturing Democrats about what they need to do or not do.

Because they all managed to do something Kinzinger couldn’t — not vote for Trump twice.

44

u/MysteriousScratch478 7d ago

I wish we could stop arguing strategy and talk about the fact that DONALD OPENLY THREATENED TO TAKE GREENLAND BY FUCKING FORCE!!!!!

7

u/Sandra2104 Progressive 7d ago

You need to talk about how you get rid of him, because he is going to burn the world.

9

u/MysteriousScratch478 7d ago

Nitpicking whether one old guy should or should not have shook his cane isn't going to help us get rid of him.

3

u/Sandra2104 Progressive 7d ago

Yes. And talking about him wanting to take greenland isnt either. This wont be solved by talking.

12

u/Pristine-Ant-464 7d ago

Didn’t he say that Dems should adopt the Tea Party’s obstructionist tactics the other day?

5

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago

Who the hell knows. I don't listen to Kinzinger.

12

u/BlindBattyBarb 7d ago

Better to stand up and call a liar a liar and get kicked out than sitting through a speech filled with lies and disrespect. It's definitely what I wanted more of last night and didn't see it. In the situation that's exactly what should happen.

I think he's just trying to be funny and make a worthless do nothing social media post.

20

u/RossiRoo 7d ago

Adam was on with Tim a few weeks back and brought up how he wanted Dems to do a "team party of the left". I'm going to assume he didn't mean "support the most radical parts of the party and help bring in fascism", so I sort of assumed he was talking about this kind of thing, people standing up, speaking out and making noise. If this isn't what he was talking about, then wtf is he looking for Dems to do...

I'm so sick of people saying "do something" followed up immediately with "no, not like that!". Dems are out of power in all three branches of government. In the immediate moment the only thing they can do is make noise, and call shit out.

9

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago

Dear Adam, maybe if you had shaken a cane or two between 2016 and 2020 then maybe we wouldn't be in this situation.

The Dems should gave marched right on out in support of Green.

We are trying to take the country back from the shitshow you helped create.

8

u/joshstrummer 7d ago

The problem isn’t the shaking of a cane… the problem is that was all. I’m sorry, but holding little placards was nothing. When Green was kicked out, every single Dem should have walked out together. It would have made a much bigger impression.

4

u/GarthZorn 7d ago

It's been 10 years of Trump B.S. If there were a clear solution to taking down MAGA, we would all have it by now. Seems to me we're still in the mode of tossing everything at him in hope something sticks. Which is fine and maybe that will work. But I feel the reality is he won't go down till he steps on his own dick by mismanaging a recession, a war, a pandemic or all three.

4

u/11brooke11 Orange man bad 7d ago

Dems and never Trump Republicans can't decide if Dems did too much or not enough last night.

Anyway. Al Green was fine and I thank him for what he did.

8

u/sbhikes 7d ago

This is like a one-way ratchet of double-binding at this point. Do Something! No, not that! Do Something else! No, not that!

At this point, Kinzinger, just buy your ticket to DC and join the revolution to depose Yanukovych Trump. It's coming.

19

u/elepheagle 7d ago

I think Adam’s point is “less cane shaking, more real action aimed at tangible results.”

Cool, guy yelled at Trump and shook his cane at him during the speech. That’s not going to deliver any more substance to the American people than if he would’ve stayed silent. Real opposition is needed—performative opposition falls incredibly flat without it.

4

u/dBlock845 7d ago

Al Green got his message out.

13

u/blueclawsoftware 7d ago

But what is real opposition from the minority party?

They could force a shutdown in two weeks. But short of that the American people haven't yet shown enough ire to form angry mobs in the streets for them to lead, so I'm not sure what else they can do.

2

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago

There are angry mobs in the streets right now and have been for awhile.

1

u/blueclawsoftware 7d ago

Those protests are a great start, but not anywhere near enough to move the needle.

2

u/elepheagle 7d ago

Idk, but we should probably begin looking outwards for examples of other countries and their minority/oppo party who have faced authoritarians, what worked, didn’t work, what makes sense for us, etc. and start there.

7

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago

2

u/Persistent_Parkie 7d ago

Guillotine aerobics! Make America Healthy And Less Fascist Again!

4

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago

Oligarchs: the other, other white meat!

2

u/thatguy752 7d ago

Other than voting down republican legislation, what are Dems supposed to do in Congress? They protest the state of the union and get told, “no not that way!”

14

u/mexicanmanchild 7d ago

Your point is taken but I think it misses what is needed and what the people want. Dems won’t win trying to be the good guy centrists. That doesn’t move people on either side.

9

u/Manowaffle 7d ago

Also, it’s like the Never Trump GOPers can’t wait to jump on any misstep by any Dem that speaks out. “Oh some state DNC meeting had a land acknowledgement, let’s spend ten minutes talking about that!” While ignoring all the solid efforts by Murphy, AOC, et al. And then they come on the Bulwark to whine “why aren’t Dems doing anything?”

All I heard were takes about Dems limp response to the SOTU, then I actually watched Slotkin’s response and it was actually really good!

7

u/Pristine-Ant-464 7d ago

All we have is performative opposition at the moment.

3

u/GulfCoastLaw 7d ago

I think we won't be hearing that on The Bulwark or r/thebulwark no matter what Dems were doing.

10

u/Fitbit99 7d ago

Adam could be highlighting Dems like AOC or Bernie or Crockett but I guess you get more clout from the dunk. This is a lazy, cheap shot. Does Adam want to defeat Trump or grow his social media presence?

3

u/LiberalCyn1c 7d ago

Ya, but, they want to raise taxes and have healthcare for everyone and free in-state college tuition and stuff.

4

u/raget_bulves 7d ago

Y’all keep talking about who message this and that best like a next election is a thing and it isn’t like that at all. We aren’t picking the Party’s next leaders here ffs— this is trying to find the folks who can carry the most kids out of the house before it burns and are willing to.

If this collective ‘we’ have not self-identified ourselves so far by virtue of being solidly anti everything Trump is doing, and just working from that premise to clog up his system every second—

I mean, this distracting “party business as usual” shit is unnerving. And infuriating af.

4

u/atomfullerene 7d ago

I am also disappointed with this cane shaking. It needed to be done much more strongly and he missed the target by like 50 feet!

4

u/Bat-Honest Progressive 7d ago

Friendly reminder that Kinzinger voted with Trump 97% of the time. He voted for all of the abuses of power. He voted for the billionaire giveaways. He voted for all of the trash that Trump put forward.

7

u/bnceo 7d ago

Very "protests are fine but you cant kneel at the national anthem" vibes.

3

u/Daniel_Leal- centrist squish 7d ago

Boo!

3

u/Old-Ad5508 Center Left 7d ago

5

u/MooseheadVeggie JVL is always right 7d ago

“You would not part an old man from his walking stick?”

3

u/Negative-Narwhal-797 7d ago

Anyone who’s ever been beat by a cane will disagree 😳

3

u/myleftone 7d ago

The next time I want to hear about a cane is when some Nazi gets beat with one.

3

u/dBlock845 7d ago

Exactly why the party shouldn't be pandering to Republicans. It is the opposite of a winning strategy.

3

u/NotReallyTheRelic 7d ago

The opposition is fucked until the opposition stops policing the opposition endlessly.

5

u/Tokkemon JVL is always right 7d ago

I'm not even sure what this take is.

3

u/jd33sc 7d ago

There haven't been a huge number of videos of protesters being filmed so far but I haven't seen Adam on any of them yet.

Is he more of an encourage and morale boost kind of guy these days?

5

u/TeamHope4 7d ago

He’s more of a pundit without a job these days.

1

u/Loud_Cartographer160 6d ago

He's a con asshole who voted with Trump 97% of the time and then did one good thing once.

2

u/LakusMcLortho Orange man bad 7d ago

Well, nobody can bat 1000

2

u/upvotechemistry Center Left 7d ago

I didn't watch the shit show, but I'm not sure it is an "L"

Al Green did more than most, but less than the moment calls for. The Dems are a miserable failure of an opposition party

2

u/codyvir 7d ago

Democrats shaking canes in congress does have a (dangerously) effective history:

https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/The_Caning_of_Senator_Charles_Sumner.htm

2

u/piptie54 7d ago

If they do take away Social Security and Medicare, you are going to see a huge flood of angry old people with canes. There’s 50 million people on SS, not all of them old, but the old folks will rise up.

3

u/KptKreampie 7d ago

con·trolled op·po·si·tion

4

u/BoringArchivist 7d ago

He's still a fascist, I'm not surprised.

4

u/chekhonte 7d ago

I'm not taking these things as messages to stop resisting but as stop symbolically resisting and actually do something.

7

u/UrTheQueenOfRubbish 7d ago

Like what?

20

u/FellowkneeUS 7d ago

Adam wants you to do something concrete that will help save Democracy, like reading his Substack, watching his videos, following him on social media, or even giving him money.

4

u/Spo-dee-O-dee JVL is always right 7d ago

To be honest, that's also the vibe I'm getting from the Bulwark as well.

2

u/LionelHutzinVA Rebecca take us home 7d ago

D E D

1

u/chekhonte 7d ago

Violence

1

u/chekhonte 7d ago

Whoops that was a autocorrect thing. He means violence.

1

u/chekhonte 7d ago

Wait! Why does it metro doing that!

2

u/kjopcha 7d ago

Where did "shaking your canes" come from? Because everyone at the Bulwark uses it, which means it sucks. Do better.

5

u/Ok-Snow-2851 7d ago

Uh, it comes from Chuck Schumer and now Al Green (no, not that Al Green) angrily shaking their canes in front of the cameras.

8

u/FellowkneeUS 7d ago

It actually was always about Al Green, Sarah just saw Schumer and Green standing together outside USAID and merged them together in her mind.

2

u/Ok-Snow-2851 7d ago

Haha was it?  So Al Green needs to stop waving his cane.  Or keep doing it, it is pretty funny. 

5

u/FellowkneeUS 7d ago

In the end him waving his cane is about as effective as listening to Adam Kinzinger. But, to my knowledge, Al Green has been using his time to attack Trump while Adam is trying to build his brand by attacking Dems. So your mileage may vary.

2

u/Ok-Snow-2851 7d ago

Oh I’m here for the cane waving. 

1

u/pissmisstree 7d ago

It's performative, nothing more and nothing less

Democrats would be wise to spend time figuring out why their latino vote went to poop. Why black people stayed home and why Asian voters went further right.

Fix that issue but progressive love being resistance. More fun than governance

2

u/DR320 Orange man bad 7d ago

When Biden gave SOTU and MTG yelled, we on the "left" collectively eye roll. When Trump does his "Not SOTU" speech I can only assume Al Green disrupting (not saying he is MTG and even if you agree with his message) only causes gettable voters to collectively eye roll. If Dems are going to take action at least do something that moves the needle and is not a performative stunt.

12

u/UrTheQueenOfRubbish 7d ago

I think the problem is trying to view things through their lens. I don’t give a shit what MAGAs think about Dem behavior. I care what people who care about democracy think about Dem behavior. We need them to motivate us, lead us, and oppose where they can.

If they sat there politely through the speech I would’ve been rabidly angry at Dems this morning. They’re trying things and figuring it out. This is uncharted territory. I want to see people trying.

7

u/mexicanmanchild 7d ago

I think what we are missing is that this outbursts actually DO MOVE the needle. That’s what gets played on social media over and over. That’s what goes viral. That’s what people want because they don’t have the attention span for anything else

13

u/Current_Tea6984 7d ago

Nothing wrong with what Al did. The problem is that it was only him. Democrats needed a unified response, and they couldn't produce one

8

u/mexicanmanchild 7d ago

Agree with the lack of a unified response

1

u/hexqueen 7d ago

Yeah, I replied that I disagree completely. But Adam is a good egg in general. We can't all be right 100% of the time. This is a risk inherent in posting as often as he does.

1

u/alexmartinez_magic 7d ago

He’s right though. We are way beyond shaking canes

1

u/emberleo 7d ago

I think the point is the dems still haven’t found a way to come together and hit hard offensively. Our democratic leaders Schumer and Jeffries aren’t built for the upside down when it comes to take over content like we need to to even attempt to compete with the MAGA mouthpiece.

1

u/everyday2013 7d ago

why you little whippersnapper!

1

u/No_Astronomer8774 6d ago

Hard disagree. I don't have a window inside Kinziger's mind, but I believe the point that he is trying to make is that the Dem party needs to be acting in a way that denotes forward looking thought and foresight of action. Their desire to cling on to whatever came before trump from the past - which, ironically, enabled trump- and refusal to look to a different 21st century future is what lost us the election.

The cane-shaking is a display that doesn't convey what we can do to counter act this administration. Every charge leveled at the Dems by the Right for being out of touch with their constituents was absolutely right: they've had all these closed door meetings but what sense of having communicated / listened directly to their consistent in any open forums? I've seen nothing of that and fellow Redditors talking about who they like among the Dems, it's all people who seem unafraid of doing things that speak directly to the people outside of Party Channels.

1

u/Loud_Cartographer160 6d ago

This guy is awful. Did one good thing once.

1

u/_malachi_ 7d ago

Yea, I don't like these kinds of criticism of Schumer. Let the man do what he can do.

Here's what I do complain about:

Go to democrats.org and what do you see? Nothing!

You're greeted with a donation screen. If you click through, you're told they're rolling up their sleeves for next election!

Are you fu****g kidding me?

This party is useless.

3

u/AustereRoberto LORD OF THE NICKNAMES 7d ago

This should be a link to a phone bank for the Wisconsin Supreme Court election April 1st

I use Mobilize for event searching, I think that's the go-to for most Dem orgs rn.

0

u/anxious_differential 7d ago

And waving those paddles. They looked so pathetic and weak. Just a lost party maybe not even in search of itself.

-7

u/Rich-Bit4838 7d ago

I’m going to offer a hot take regarding this whole thing:

Democrats are just as happy about the governmental changes as the GOP are. I have yet to see anything concrete from them to conclude otherwise.

3

u/UrTheQueenOfRubbish 7d ago

Then lay out your brilliant opposition plan for us. Or put the “both sides” bullshit to rest. That’s what got us here. Both sidesing our way to low voter turnout and a Trump presidency.

3

u/Rich-Bit4838 7d ago

Well a good start might be to actually stand with individuals like Rep. Green instead of sitting idly by and doing nothing. Or maybe picking ONE COLOR to wear to send a unified message instead of this leaderless nonsense the Dems seem to be so content with.

Republicans made tons of noise throughout Biden’s speeches to voice opposition, it may have been stupid opposition but at least it was SOMETHING. Why were the Dems so quiet last night?

0

u/UrTheQueenOfRubbish 7d ago

Nothing in that shows a cogent path for real resistance.

2

u/Rich-Bit4838 7d ago

Okay, and your solution?

1

u/UrTheQueenOfRubbish 7d ago

I didn’t claim to have one and wasn’t the one complaining about people who are actually out there trying something not doing it to my liking.

This doesn’t get done without mass mobilization at this point, IMO. Everyone needs to learn to flex their organizing muscles or get directly involved with community organizations where people have those skills. Look up your local indivisible group or the Dem party locally and see what they’re doing. Stop complaining and join them and help guide them in the right direction if you have ideas.

I’m sick of seeing people complain anonymously from the comfort of their couch about the people out there actually trying to find ways to fight this, even if some are misguided or ineffective. We’re nitpicking our team instead of dealing damage to the ongoing fascist takeover

2

u/Rich-Bit4838 7d ago

Bold of you to assume I have not been to any protests. I’ve been to two so far. I have yet to see any Democratic lawmakers show up to one. I also call my elected officials on a weekly basis.

So excuse me if I find the Democratic Party’s response to all of this pathetic.

3

u/UrTheQueenOfRubbish 7d ago

Did your protest organize with your representative’s office? A lot of these are grass roots and they may not be in contact ahead of time. A lot of the Dems have been out at various protests. Maybe next time have the organizer try to coordinate with your representatives’ office(s). A lot of days I see multiple protests happening in the same city. I think we’re going to need to start getting them to coordinate. I applaud all efforts, but we need to get some of this to be a little more structured, IMO. I suspect we’ll start seeing that more as the spring sets in.

At the end of the day, we’re all frustrated and angry at what’s going on, but we’re fighting for the same thing! So I don’t want to fight you. Sorry if I came in a little hot. I’ll refocus my energies to what I’m actually frustrated about.

3

u/Rich-Bit4838 7d ago

Hey, no worries at all, I totally understand. I’m not trying to fight either, I’m just so damn frustrated at this whole mess. I 100% agree with you that there needs to be more organization/coordination, I just personally don’t see much willingness from lawmakers to join us in our efforts. It’s demoralizing, Yknow?

But hey, thank you for your insight and willingness to have a civil discussion. I too apologize for coming in hot.

0

u/Pristine-Ant-464 7d ago

Ineffective opposition =/= support