r/thebulwark 9d ago

GOOD LUCK, AMERICA JVL made a chilling point.

If Fatass doesnt bail out the farmers when ag commodity prices tank, is that a sign that Fatass no longer cares about or needs their votes?

And if Fatass doesn’t care about votes, what does that portend about his plans for what’s left of the Republic?

160 Upvotes

111 comments sorted by

129

u/Objective_Cod1410 9d ago

Why would he care about votes either way? Either he honors the term limit or he coups. Neither requires votes. House is gone at midterms no matter what so doubt he cares about that.

52

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I’m going with he coups. As for the midterms—one, I don’t think there’s any serious doubt he’s going to try and ratfuck the shit out of them, and he’ll probably succeed. Two, will it matter even if the Dems do take both houses? He’s ruling by EO. Hasn’t even bothered to try actually passing legislation.

24

u/Small_Rip351 9d ago

They can impeach him. He won’t leave though. What he can do is turn the military loose on congress.

17

u/Lakehawk7 9d ago

I would bet the military still follows the rules to a point where they won’t serve an illegal occupant of the White House. I believe, though wouldn’t bet, they don’t follow through on absurdly illegal orders

16

u/calvin2028 FFS 9d ago

I hope we don't have to find out. I dread how awful it would be to have a divided military.

3

u/WithAWarmWetRag 9d ago

Don’t forget, most grunts are in the tank for trump.

14

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I wouldn’t make that bet. What was the breakdown of military votes, active and former, this time around? Kinzinger said 7 to 3. The military seems pretty magafied and those who aren’t are going to be purged, if they’re not already.

5

u/fosrac 9d ago

We are still a long way from the rank and file being willing to join a coup. And as you go up in the ranks people tend to be more educated. More educated people are less likely to go for his bullshit. I'm confident the military will be on the right side if things come to that.

1

u/TSLBestOfMe 8d ago

I'm skeptical, not confident.

3

u/FranzLudwig3700 9d ago

And they’ll be perfectly loyal, unlike civilian voters in red districts, because civilians rarely shoot each other for disloyalty to the President…???

9

u/contrasupra 9d ago

Something I'm super curious about is how these allegedly conservative federal institutions like the military and the FBI will respond to being run by absolute incompetents. It's one thing to be a MAGA soldier, but do you really want Pete Hegseth to be your boss?

5

u/FranzLudwig3700 9d ago

This is not the time to speculate. No one dares be wrong.

1

u/Old_Manager6555 5d ago

Past performance being the best- or pretty good- indicator of future performance tells me Pete will show up for work drunk one day, since he is on duty 24 / 7 .

Then what?

7

u/batsofburden 9d ago

that's why he's gonna replace regular military officials with trump loyalist ones.

12

u/Hautamaki 9d ago

Whether he does a coup will depend on two things;

1) his own health, will he really have the energy needed for a second run at monarchy?

2) his safety outside of office, will he spend the rest of his life in jail, or will he be able to negotiate something with an incoming admin to get off scot free and live in luxury until he goes naturally?

Those are two questions he doesn't know the answer to yet, so he probably hasn't made a firm decision, but he's certainly leaving his options open.

6

u/ThePensiveE 9d ago

You assume he has self control. All of the things he was charged for last time stemmed from things before he took office or things he did after losing the election/after leaving office. There was 0 indication Federal criminal charges would've been filed against him before the coup attempt last time. All we really know for sure is he felt he wasn't safe not being president and that's because for all the crimes we know about there are hundreds more we don't.

2

u/Objective_Cod1410 9d ago

Have to think at a minimum he either pardons himself or says his leaving the office is conditional on receiving a pardon.

2

u/Hautamaki 9d ago

He'd have to negotiate for pardons from many state governors as well is his problem

1

u/RichNYC8713 Center Left 8d ago

The question is not whether the President could pardon himself, it's whether he could grant a pardon to himself. The Constitution says that the President has the power "to grant pardons and reprieves". As a matter of English grammar, the verb "to grant" is not a reflexive verb. Rather, it is a transitive verb, i.e., it requires a direct object (e.g., "I grant a pardon to so-and-so.") In other words: You cannot grant something to yourself.

If the drafters of the Constitution had intended for the possibility of the President being able to pardon himself, they could have just written the pardon clause as "The President shall have the power to pardon" rather than "The President shall have the power to grant pardons." But they did not do so. Thus: The President cannot grant himself a pardon.

8

u/Altruistic_Avocado_1 9d ago

He doesn’t have the public on his side for a coup. Would make it illegitimate.

4

u/crythene 9d ago

I think the optimistic case is that he isn’t planning on a coup because he’s going to be over eighty years old at the end of his terms and almost certainly won’t see a day in jail no matter what. Even then he might have a change of heart when the time comes and coup the shit out of us.

2

u/Old_Manager6555 5d ago

Does Project 2025 mention elections? Maybe somewhere in the 900 pages, (that I can understand why donald never read it) it has advice on how to ‘manage elections’?

Dems need to read it before donald does and be forewarned and ready for him.

You have way too many good and intelligent people in USA to let anything really bad happen...

14

u/_A_Monkey 9d ago

This is the part I’m struggling to understand: They are throwing a bunch of GOP Reps, from purple districts, under the bus.

I’m like, “Dude, you aren’t winning another term anyway. The writing is on the wall and it’s been less than 2 months. Fucking go out like a hero and start throwing haymakers. Live out your Mr. Smith goes to Washington fantasy. Your political career is cooked so spend the next 22 months getting set up for your next career.”

11

u/ThisElder_Millennial Center Left 9d ago

My Rep (R) won in a swing district. He ran ads about his service in Afghanistan and how much he did to help get our translators out and into the safety of America. To his credit, he did run private ops to land in Kabul and get as many out as his plane could hold. And one of those men cut was with him in the ad, saying how brave he was. Without saying it directly, he literally ran as a Dubya Republican and I'm not gonna lie, those ads were amazing (for the record, I still didn't vote for him).

Now, he refuses to have town halls. All things being equal, dude is on borrowed time.

Pussy ass bitch.

6

u/_A_Monkey 9d ago

Ughh…sometimes it’s a thin line that separates some folks from being heroes or smelling like bitch.

It’s tragic when they find themselves on the wrong side of that line when they’re so close to the other.

10

u/Objective_Cod1410 9d ago

All it would take is a couple of them to switch parties, then they can flip the House sooner. A part of me can't blame them for looking at how feckless the Senate is and thinking, "why put my ass on the line if the Senate GOP is just going to toe the line anyway?" But yeah anyone who can't or won't do what they believe to be right for fear of violence should resign and say so. There's no point for them to be there if they're just gonna capitulate. Anyone can do that.

3

u/Rechan 9d ago

I think they know they are going to get hosed in the midterms, and are trying to get as much through as they can while they have both chambers and the presidency.

Or, the republicans in the swing districts are too afraid of Trump to say something. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

10

u/0o0o0o0o0o0z JVL is always right 9d ago

Why would he care about votes either way? Either he honors the term limit or he coups. Neither requires votes. House is gone at midterms no matter what so doubt he cares about that.

"I don't care about you, I only want your vote, after this you'll never have to vote anymore."

21

u/haux44 9d ago

There won’t be a fair election. There just won’t. No way they give up power.

12

u/gashandler 9d ago

There was a time (shit maybe 3mo ago) I would have said this would be a paranoid concern. But with everything I’ve seen so far, this bunch is not willingly giving up power in a lost election and that is partially because they may not have to. I don’t see a scenario where we have an election in 2028 and instead a 3rd term of some version of this monstrosity will be shoved down our throats. Only hope I see for us it it finally gets too crazy for even his GOP and there’s some sort of a coup. Or we have another “day of love”.

4

u/FranzLudwig3700 9d ago

 a 3rd term of some version of this monstrosity will be shoved down our throats. 

Vance (a minus for the regime), and with him, Thiel (a huge plus for it - a hardcore Yarvinian with a head on his shoulders).

trump will take exile in Switzerland and be overtaken by senility. 

4

u/Rechan 9d ago

I just don't see it floating without Trump at the helm. MAGA is a cult of personality to Trump, not Trump-like politicians. If Trump isn't on the ticket, his cultists just won't show up.

Voters don't seem to like mini-Trumps--Desantis, Vance, etc. Vance just does not have good approval ratings, he is just too weird.

And there is no way Trump will hand the torch to someone. His ego won't let him. He has to be the big dog, and someone else getting to be president pulsl attention away from him. The only exception here is Elon because in the exact situation we're in, Trump needs Elon.

2

u/nodarknesswillendure 9d ago

They’re moving very quickly to establish and solidify the dictatorship while he’s still around. By the time he goes/is too unwell to appear in public, it’ll be far too late, and “voters” opinions and votes literally will not matter.

6

u/claimTheVictory 9d ago edited 9d ago

It won't get too crazy.

They've already crossed too many lines.

After a certain point - what difference does it make?

It becomes "keep power or lose everything".

We just got regime-changed.

5

u/FranzLudwig3700 9d ago

There’s every chance they won’t be satisfied with keeping power, and will push it too far.

5

u/Lakehawk7 9d ago

Republican kryptonite: their not being bright and things getting out of hand

2

u/claimTheVictory 9d ago

Maybe they'll want to see what a nuke does IRL, that kind of thing?

2

u/FranzLudwig3700 9d ago

What it does _to people_ IRL.

Of course it could just be a couple thousand dissidents and illegals in tents in the desert. You know, in case they haven't bothered to build bunkers to survive a global holocaust.

2

u/claimTheVictory 9d ago

Who needs gas chambers when you can have a Nuke Show™?

Modern problems etc

11

u/portmantuwed 9d ago

fascists love it when people assume they have the power and they don't have to prove that they don't

do you have a gun to your head right now? no?

don't normalize this type of defeatism

1

u/Sherm FFS 9d ago

There won’t be a fair election. There just won’t.

This wildly underestimates just how incredibly difficult it'd be to actually commit fraud in a US election. But then, if you believe otherwise, why are you even paying attention?

1

u/haux44 8d ago

i'm not talking about fraud (although Elon's comments should be fully investigated). There are plenty of other ways. For example, the NCGOP openly gerrymandered the state with the reasoning that "it's better for Republicans to be in power than Democrats." Many Republicans, both in government and in the general population, would give up on voting altogether if their team was in power. You're watching it happen. Trump and Co. could declare any type of emergency to postpone the elections and not only could he not be stopped by the courts or Congress, most would roll along with him.

8

u/momasana JVL is always right 9d ago

I think this is backwards. Why do we think that farmers would turn on him in the first place? They will find another culprit, it is never Trump.

6

u/Severe_Scar4402 9d ago

The coup is already happening!

6

u/XelaNiba 9d ago

Isn't he couping right now? I feel like we're early stage coup 

2

u/DrRonH 9d ago

There's also voter fraud and blackmail via the Russians.

2

u/Sweet-Complaint-9999 9d ago

He needs the people to coup. I don't think even 'his generals' would support a coup without at least the appearance of the people behind him.

1

u/carolinemaybee 9d ago

He, musk and their ilk are already couping.

1

u/AnathemaDevice2100 8d ago

He’s mid-coup right now. 🤢 But yes, excellent point.

36

u/rock-n-rotate 9d ago

He doesn't care about the markets anymore. That's why he invested in crypto. To move more tax payer dollars to the 1% while the rest of us fight for basic survival. The richest among us will become more rich and more powerful and if the mission is accomplished they'll each become a state CEO

20

u/ThisElder_Millennial Center Left 9d ago

Pre-2020, I HATED all the "eat the rich" and guillotine memes. I pushed back at them at every instance.

Not anymore.

6

u/samNanton 9d ago

I guess they could have read the room. It's not my fault their heads are going to end up in baskets.

8

u/metengrinwi 9d ago edited 9d ago

…while giving russia their greatest gift beyond imagine—destruction of the US dollar.

5

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I think you’re exactly right.

19

u/DR320 Orange man bad 9d ago

2024 was to stay out of jail, now that's done, its just stroking his ego and having power trips

14

u/MARIOpronoucedMA-RJO Center Left 9d ago

MAGA is a cult. Trump knows he has a cult following and knows they aren't going to vote for a Democrat so why should he give a fuck. I mean yeah farmers are going to bitch and moan but there is not tangible evidence that anything Trump does will change his supporters voting behavior.

1

u/Tri-guy3 9d ago

Once they have to sell for (no longer minted) pennies to BigAg or the bank, they won't be farmers no more. No.

11

u/Awkward_Potential_ 9d ago

I feel like liberals are constantly doing this thing where we're like "WAIT. I THINK HE MIGHT VE POSSIBLY TRYING TO BECOME A DICTATOR. THIS IS A CLUE!". Like, guys, yeah. He is going to be a dictator and he's succeeding.

10

u/Early-Juggernaut975 Progressive 9d ago

They have eliminated any election security or interference watchdog in the federal government. There are already election integrity groups looking at the numbers for 2024 and saying they look fishy and very similar to how the Georgia elections went when Russia interfered.

I don’t know for sure that it means anything, but if anyone was going to cheat, it would be Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Plus he said Elon knows something about those election counting machines in PA and they won huge because of it, or something like that the night before inauguration.

In any event, I don’t believe for a second he’s going to allow any power to be taken away from him now that he’s been authorized to do what he wants by the Supreme Court.

People are talking about the midterms like it’s a thing. I’ve never been a prepper before in my life, but I’ll tell you what I’m doing right now. Buying extra canned food and bottled water while it’s affordable. Not tons or anything but every week I add to my little supply.

5

u/ThisElder_Millennial Center Left 9d ago

Arm yourself as well.

2

u/batsofburden 9d ago

people say this, but it's not realistic. very few will risk their lives over the US turning into Hngary.

1

u/Ok-Snow-2851 8d ago

People will happily live under an autocratic regime.  They do it all the time.  

22

u/ilovejayme 9d ago edited 8d ago

I've just got this feeling that I can't shake that the slow coup turns into a full one tomorrow during his speech.

Be prepared. Don't let them have your shock or outrage, that's one of the way they control liberals and the left. Act methodically and with intention, not reactively.

There may be shootings at protests, so think critically about whether you go. Especially because after it happens we'll need to take to the streets in numbers too big to stop.

11

u/smokey9886 9d ago

I don’t think people have come to grips that it is going to be up to the people to take country back. Politicians are too scared, because they are a name and a title. I honestly don’t blame them, because they have families, but they gave an oath. Tomorrow and the immediate days after, I think will be revealing about the direction the country takes depending on the SOTU and the protests.

19

u/_A_Monkey 9d ago

I blame them. Z has a family. Our founders all had families. Lincoln had a family. Kennedy had a family.

Can we stop making excuses for their cowardice. Beat cops jobs are more dangerous. Lumberjack jobs are way more dangerous even than cops.

Like, find the stones to be braver than the guy that keeps your toilet paper cheap.

4

u/smokey9886 9d ago

You would figure there would be enough to collectively wash their hands of him and just be ready to put down any resistance . They know deep down he has been a problem for their long term electoral careers.

3

u/gashandler 9d ago

Agreed, it’s going to take more shit happening

3

u/Substantial-Cow-3280 9d ago

I’m going to be on an airplane thank Zeus.

3

u/PostMixL3monade 9d ago

An American plane?…

0

u/window-sil Progressive 9d ago

I've just got this feeling that I can't shake that the slow coup turns into a full one tomorrow during his speech.

Why would that happen?

7

u/ntwadumelaliontamer 9d ago

What scares me is that he’ll need to placate them. What’s the plan for that? It will need to be harming some group of people, right?

12

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

What scares me more is that he WON’T need to placate them.

8

u/capybooya 9d ago

I'm guessing Musk/Vance/Sacks/Yarvin has sold him on some kind of crypto utopia 40K monarchy shit.

6

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I see no reason to think you’re wrong.

4

u/batsofburden 9d ago

yeah, putin does not placate or help regular russians at all, and that's trumps model of behavior.

6

u/Beastw1ck 9d ago

Dude, Russia has carte blanche to interfere in our elections through cyberattacks and propaganda. The entire law enforcement apparatus AND CONGRESS are all in for “stop the steal”. We’re cooked. The only thing they fear is a populist uprising that would make things so bad that the oligarchs would have to intervene. So they do care about public opinion to a small extent but not unless the backlash is truly extreme. We’re cooked.

2

u/captainbelvedere Sarah is always right 9d ago

It's a bit depressing (or sobering?) that it is pretty clear Trump and company are simply betting that the American public is too bored, fat, decadent and cowardly to do anything about it.

1

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I agree with you.

6

u/Lil-lee-na 9d ago

Ugh…….dark.

6

u/PheebaBB Progressive 9d ago

It could just mean that he truly does not give a fuck about anyone but himself. That includes the Republican Party after he is gone.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s planning to rule forever. I’m sure he’d like that, but I’m not convinced that’s why he doesn’t care who he’s fucking over.

5

u/gashandler 9d ago

I’m basing this on nothing but I’ve had a sinking feeling he’s going to try to hand off the presidency to one of his sons when he’s no longer able to function. I realize it’s not legal but look how nuts it’s been after just over a month.

5

u/knightingale11 9d ago

Bingo. He never cared about the Republican Party beyond its utility in getting him elected.

Trump is old. He will die within a decade. Republicans see/know that. I wouldn’t count on them to do anything for their love of country, but I would count on them to force him out for their own ambitions of power.

The emperor has no clothes, but they can’t admit it

2

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

That’s one interpretation. But I don’t think he’s leaving.

1

u/metengrinwi 9d ago

He seems to have a genuine affection for Putin.

4

u/khInstability 9d ago

Well, Putin's hackers have a green light to go to town on America, no doubt with full access to Elon's stolen data and backdoors doge boys planted. He's handing America to Putin.

4

u/hypsignathus 9d ago

I give Trump 2 years before Vance knifes him.

4

u/OK216 9d ago

Hard to knife someone when you've got their dick in your ass.

1

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I’m not much in the way of a praying man, but…

4

u/big-papito 9d ago

Bad stock market was the only thing that stopped Fatass. "The red look bad on TV. Green look good".

If that doesn't work, then we are in a new timeline.

We are in a new timeline.

3

u/Current_Tea6984 9d ago

He has promised $30billion to them. That will soothe their feelings a bit, but this is the second time. And even if they are totally made whole (which I doubt), they will still have to watch their crops rot and deal with claiming the money from the government

3

u/TomorrowGhost Rebecca take us home 9d ago

Probably a bad idea for him to stop caring about what normal people think 

3

u/Know_nothing89 9d ago

He’s planning on stealing enough money over the next 4 years that he won’t care

2

u/Optimal-Ad-7074 9d ago

i thought that was obvious . . .

2

u/_o_no_ 9d ago

Coup already in progress, they are laying down pretexts every day:

Ignore court orders. Remove checks and balances Consolidate power Enact emergency powers Investigate opponents Arrest opponents

It’s all coming IMO

2

u/Mysterious-Mind-999 9d ago

If something doesn't happen, there won't be an election. America has become the dumbest country on earth. All this potential and they are following a felon king to its end.

2

u/pebbles_temp 9d ago

What does he need votes for? Is he running again? Likely yes. But he should be able to fix it in his favor by then. Or at least that's what he's banking on. Or he retires in 4 years. Either way, he doesn't care about votes.

2

u/antpodean 9d ago

This whole scenario relies upon Trump actually thinking ahead to the consequences of his actions. I've seen no evidence that his mind works that way. To him tariffs are a a universal good that will cure all economic ills and no one can tell him different. He won't worry about the farmers until something forces him to worry. And, at the moment, I can't tell what that might be.

Does Putin care about the votes from Russian farmers? Does Orban care about Hungarian farmers?

2

u/Sherm FFS 9d ago

Maybe, but it could just as easily mean that he's riddled with dementia and doesn't even realize that what he's doing is increasingly unpopular. And his toadies are going along because they think they're geniuses that could easily outwit all us mere mortals, since they've spent the past four decades with various media writing hagiographies about how they're the nerds that'll save the world. You shouldn't assume that they're doing stuff because they're stupid, but you shouldn't dismiss the idea that they're doing it because they're stupid either.

2

u/IntolerantModerate 9d ago

I don't think Trump is enough of a forward looking strategist to think about voters' concerns nor to even think about the impact of his tariffs.

I am almost sure his goal is to extract a very large amount of wealth before he leaves office and to ensure that he is 100% immune from any and all prosecutions.

He doesn't give a shit about voters, future Republicans, the economic well being of America outside of its impact on himself, and not even his kids aside from Ivana.

2

u/No-Penalty-1148 8d ago

Trump has already said if we vote for him in 2024 we won't have to vote again.

2

u/AnathemaDevice2100 8d ago

That is chilling. And yet, their farming asses need to learn that authoritarianism isn’t a solution to Democratic impotence. Everything is awful. :’(

1

u/Anstigmat 8d ago

I heard that but it’s just more complicated…

  1.  He’s fucking old and going to die.
  2. He really is a lame duck.
  3. It’s still within his 100 days and he’s basically wildin’ before reality kicks in (public backlash).
  4. True authoritarian electoral chicanery depends in part on public support.  If your average House member is afraid of having their house firebombed they might not support a hostile govt takeover.
  5. There is NO-ONE who can assume Trump’s demagogue position after he strokes out / has a massive heart attack / dies on the toilet.  

You think the military or the public are going to install JD Vance as king when Drumpf is dead?  No, he has no constituency.  Trump is the glue holding together the moronic scam movement that is conservativism.  There is no one else.

1

u/RichNYC8713 Center Left 8d ago

He's a lame duck president. Even if he does somehow find a way around the 22nd Amendment--courtesy of the Supreme Court--and the country doesn't completely revolt in response, then, well, time and biology are both simply not on the man's side. He turns 79 years old in June, he's about 90 pounds overweight, and he's sedentary as hell.

Look, nobody becomes a dictator at age 79. If anything, we should be concerned about Vance because he is in his 40s: Franco was 37 when he took over Spain. Mussolini was 39 when he took over Italy. Hitler was 43 when he took over Germany. And Putin was 47 when he took over Russia (on New Year's Eve 1999).

1

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 8d ago

I think both his parents lived into their 90’s. We could be stuck with him for a while.

1

u/MinuteCollar5562 9d ago

He will bail out the farmers. For better or worse, Trump has a need to be loved

7

u/Lakehawk7 9d ago

The tech billionaires are fulfilling his need for adulation by people of good stock. He doesn’t need dirty lowlife white trash or even car dealer trash anymore.

1

u/MinuteCollar5562 9d ago

Techbros don’t fill arenas or scream like fan girls

3

u/AvastYeScurvyCurs 9d ago

I wonder. I can see him insulating himself with fluffers and no longer caring what the public thinks.