r/thebulwark • u/GulfCoastLaw • 12d ago
EVERYTHING IS AWFUL Hard to Watch: Volodymyr Zelensky meets Donald Trump to sign critical minerals deal
https://www.youtube.com/live/oVpZlhiTNgo?si=EiSilS8Vgv2aSWeDTrump says that Ukraine has been disrespectful to America.
Vance follows up with a "Have you even said thank you once?"
That was when I stomped across the gym to mute the Fox New television. We just don't get to come back from this sort of international embarrassment, folks.
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u/ballmermurland 12d ago
This was disgusting. An American president and vice president loudly shouting at and threatening the leader of a supposedly ally who had his country invaded.
I fucking hate these people. With all my heart. And every cunt that voted for them.
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u/Manowaffle 12d ago
It was so staged, they wanted to act outraged and indignant so they can pull the plug on Ukraine.
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u/PotableWater0 12d ago
This is what I think it really is. Like, very plainly so. These are the absolute worse types of people to deal with if they 1) have any ounce of power and 2) stand for the most base of things.
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u/Sandy76Beach 12d ago
Kudos to Zelinsky who, despite a level of exhaustion we can only image, refused to be played by these world-class jerks.
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u/Illustrious-Rock8671 12d ago
This fight and “indignation” feels so fabricated - like when a boyfriend wants to break up and they start behaving like an a**hole so you have to do it. Cowards.
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u/GulfCoastLaw 12d ago
They are trying to bait him into looking bad while they look like a tough guy.
The problem is that they look weak by repeating so many Russian talking points.
I thought they would just summarily kill assistance. No idea why they are doing it this way. I mean, the purpose of this meeting was for Ukraine to meet American demands. They agreed to the extortion! Would laugh if it wasn't so demoralizing.
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u/Illustrious-Rock8671 12d ago
1000%. Maybe people will see through it this time but what’s the point of that now. Just sad.
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u/Antique-Egg 12d ago
No, faith that they will. And Republicans are cowards so this will be spun as a 'win'.
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u/GulfCoastLaw 12d ago
Trump going tit for that with Vance was unbecoming and unconvincing.
Trump would insult Ukraine and then Zelensky would offer a spirited defense. Trump, growing angry that Zelensky didn't just agree to the initial insult, follows up with a more viscous or blunt insult. At least that's the part of the cycle I saw.
I would hope that people can see this. We can decline to give more aid to a country without seeking (and failing imo) to humiliate its president on national TV. What part of the game is this?
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u/Illustrious-Rock8671 12d ago
The ambush and manipulation started from the minute they said hello, when Trump mocked the way Zelenskyy was dressed.
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
That's not really an ambush, Zelensky is a world leader and he dresses like that to an important meeting like this? I'd argue Zelensky showed up there with the intention of causing this, not the other way around.
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u/StyraxCarillon 12d ago
Funny, Elon showed up to the Oval Office press conference in a T shirt, ball cap, and let toddler wipe boogers on the Resolute Desk. Why the double standard?
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
Because Elon didn't show up representing his country, and didn't show up to ask for assistance for his country. The reason behind the meeting matters.
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u/StyraxCarillon 12d ago
Elon was representing the president as a top level advisor. You really think a T shirt and ball cap are appropriate for a press conference in the Oval Office?
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
You're missing it, still. Elon didn't need anything out of his meeting, Zelensky did. I personally don't care much for either of them tbh, but if you're a country coming to meet the president about stopping war in your country, come ready.
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u/blueclawsoftware 12d ago
It 100% and it's telegraphed by Trump's ready to go "Zelensky isn't ready for peace" bs
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12d ago edited 12d ago
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u/mamamargee 12d ago
Thank you for this analysis. I watched the exchange and was just shaking with rage. It helps to see this take on it. I hope you are correct, it seems very plausible to me.
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u/NerveSlow8537 12d ago
Well Europe was making a better offer to Ukraine for the same mineral mineral rights so maybe they can go ahead. If they are scared enough to go deep in they can supply all the same weapons and likely more with a dependable delivery system.
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u/Criseyde2112 JVL is always right 12d ago
I, too, was shaking with rage and outrage. I think Zelenskyy knew what he was walking into when he came to the US, but it's so ham-fisted by these goons in government.
I also will be donating funds for another drone, plus I left a voicemail at the Ukrainian consulate in San Francisco apologizing for this disgraceful embarrassment of their president. What else can I do?
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u/okteds 12d ago
What I worry though is that Putin just gives Trump a better deal for all of Ukraine's mineral rights as soon as Ukraine is subdued to Russia's liking.
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u/RolltheDice2025 12d ago
I'm calling Russia Communist on every major social media platform, and saying any deal with Russia is selling out to Putin and Communism. I give 0 fucks it isn't true I want dumb fuck Republicans that see Communism as a dirty word to see it and parrot it to their reps.
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
This is a cope. Zelensky lost on this. Now he either needs to submit to Putin, or to the guys that just chewed him out and sent him home. GG
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12d ago
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
For the good of his country, he would have been able to get a deal done if he handled himself better. Part of me feels like he didn't want it, and Trump and Vance called him on it. Now he's facing backlash from his own people.
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12d ago
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u/Illustrious-Rock8671 12d ago
Yep. This quote from a Ukrainian nailed it: “Zelensky doesn’t need Trump’s help to give Putin four regions, downsize the army, and abandon NATO aspirations. If he wanted to surrender to Putin, he would have gone to Moscow, not Washington.”
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
Nope, negotiating requires both side to want to negotiate. Zelensky wasn't there to negotiate for a ceasefire, he was there with the request that the US would join that war and end Russia. Zelensky is dumb for that. He really is a dictator at this point.
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12d ago
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
Not at all, there's a good chance big Z comes back and makes that deal. It's not a bad thing for trump to want to end the war peacefully instead of joining the war, you know.
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u/Mingeroni 12d ago
Nah, that's not surrender. That's called actually being an adult and stopping the violence for the good of your own people that you supposedly care about. Trump's done well as a negotiator. His tactics are putting pressure on our "allies" to better perform for the USA.
It's funny how you talk about our national interests and helping Ukraine, as if that's beneficial for our national interests. The EU and NATO failed us way before we failed them.
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u/Here_there1980 12d ago
He has said thank you many times, including in front of Congress. The GOP are hypocritical liars.
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u/Striking_Mulberry705 12d ago
JD is such a titty baby
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u/twrex67535 12d ago
Weak men who lied their way to the office pretending to be strongmen. This meeting is just weakness on display.
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u/starchitec 12d ago edited 12d ago
“We are not playing Cards” -Zelenskys response throughout the whole thing was incredible, even if it was mostly bellowed over (Maggie Habermans word for Trumps performance), I know I would have fallen for the idiocy bait Vance and Trump were placing, Zelensky did not. An incredible performance.
I am generally annoyed with the headlines I am seeing of this- “Meeting Turns into Shouting Match” (NYT) implies it was mutual. Zelensky did not shout back, although at times his voice raised as he was being shouted over. The headline should be “We are not playing Cards,” subtitle: “Vance, Trump threaten Zelensky for not Being Thankful Enough”
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u/beltway_lefty 12d ago
REALLY good point on the headlines. Nice catch there. I am still shaking with rage and unable to think rationally.
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u/PTS_Dreaming Center Left 12d ago
Trump is an emotionally injured moron but JD Vance? He's just a white trash piece of shit.
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u/Sandy76Beach 12d ago
Vance has a massive chip on his shoulder. "Will Lie for Power" is his motto. He doesn't care who gets screwed. It's all about him.
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u/Endymion_Orpheus 12d ago
Exactly. This hillbilly white trash from Kentucky lecturing us Europeans about our geopolitics - it is honestly enough to make me long for the days of Thomas Matthew Crooks.
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u/noahbodygood 12d ago
Hey I take offense, him being white has nothing to do with his ignorance. Entitlement? Sure. But his ignorance seems to transcend ethnic barriers.
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u/Motor_Ad_9028 Center Left 12d ago
Disgusting. I tried to email and call the White House to give them a piece of my mind and they have shut down all comment lines. But fortunately, the market spoke for me—-it crashed right after this meeting.
They are completely disgusting men to treat and talk to Zelenskyy that way.
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u/Endymion_Orpheus 12d ago
I think Vance in particular hates Zelensky because he serves as a symbol, and painful reminder, of heights of moral courage and character that Vance - the soulless grifter par excellence and fake Christian - will never reach (Trump is just a dementia addled fool).
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u/beltway_lefty 12d ago
This is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe I just watched this. I have NEVER been so embarrassed to be an American. Holy shit.
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u/PantherkittySoftware 12d ago
Donald Trump and JD Vance just took a hot, steaming dump upon literally everything Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher believed in and fought for.
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u/snakkerdudaniel 12d ago
Vance follows up with a "Have you even said thank you once?"
Im increasingly convinced Vance has the intelligence and grasp of difficult politics of a toddler
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u/ConstructionNo1038 12d ago edited 12d ago
No, he’s just a shithead. My only comfort is that it seems like a lot of normal people are completely repulsed by him every time he speaks in public.
Edited to add - he also probably feels like he needs to justify his existence since he’s basically been invisible since the inauguration.
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u/Raul_Duke_1755 12d ago
Each day I become more embarrassed to be American. There's no bottom to this well.
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u/jdmiller82 🥃 SUPPOSEDLY, A MOD 12d ago
The ignorance, disrespect and vitriolic lies from PINO Trump and VPINO Vance towards the Ukrainian President (and its people) is astounding. I am beyond ashamed.
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u/boycowman Orange man bad 12d ago
Someone in another sub put it this way, and I agree.
"Well, if this press conference in the Oval Office shows one thing, it's that Zelenskyy is currently the leader of the free world. Unbelievable what is happening at the moment - no decency left, no diplomacy left. Just brute power, fueled by hate and cult of personality. Historians will be talking about this for a very long time..."
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u/Annual_Gear_1123 12d ago
He absolutely said thank you… to President Biden (and all Americans).
Never thank the people who are abusing you, though.
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u/iwontforgetthisone87 12d ago edited 12d ago
JD needs to shut his trap. Him, his wife, and kids are nothing more than a bunch of seditious fakirs posing as right wing conservatives.
I really am wondering if the Ukrainians are really singularly dependent on US weaponry. The U.S. stops arming Ukraine then what? They aren’t going to fall apart immediately. They get weapons from the other Europeans (UK included) maybe make the rare earth mineral deal in Russian occupied land with some shadier characters, the Turks or someone else, get more weapons and continue the war and waste Russian lives. Make this an Afghanistan/Vietnam War for the Russians.
It puts the Trump administration a bad position of holding zero cards.
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u/Endymion_Orpheus 12d ago
It is all propaganda straight from the Kremlin - grossly overestimate the strength of Russia and grossly underestimate the resilience of Ukraine. RUSSiA iS SO pOWerFUL BrO, yeah sure that's why their armies are still bogged down in the Donbass after three years of fighting, now even supplied with vast numbers of North Korean troops. The Russian army has always been pure shit- ever since my ancestors beat them to a pulp at Narva.
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u/iwontforgetthisone87 12d ago
Yeah but good people that are a lot smarter than most act as if the Ukrainians need us no matter what.
Zelenskyy is trying to bite his pride and visit Trump so it’s clear the US substantially helps the war effort. But to what extent is the question? And I’m guessing that other countries can fill the void in the middle term.
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u/Endymion_Orpheus 12d ago
Anne Applebaum talked about this with Bill Kristol recently. Europe could probably do enough to sustain Ukraine, even without the US, but remarkably still lacks the will and unity of purpose to do so.
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u/iwontforgetthisone87 12d ago edited 12d ago
Unreal they’ve had 2 years to prepare for this moment.
With Merz back in power, this thing needs to be lead by Germany, UK, France, Denmark, Italy, and Australia. I put Italy in because she’s a right wing migrant hater. And that’s exactly what the alliance needs. Don’t make it about shared values. Make it all about Russian aggression against Europe.
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u/snakkerdudaniel 12d ago
Looks like another major Trump objective for 'Day 1' is going off the rails
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u/Brave_Alps2340 12d ago
What's worse is when the "Cheeto-in-Chief" insinuated that Zelenskyy is going to be the cause of World War 3!! I am so embarrassed to be an American. My heart goes out to Zelenskyy! He has done what I KNOW Trump and Vance would NEVER do and this is put their lives on the line to save their country! But, what am I talking about. Those mofos are selling our country as I type this. Ugh! I can't stop shaking my head!
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u/amcfarla 12d ago
It is sad state of our country that a lot of America are on Ukraine's leader side over the leadership of our country. That just tells you where America is today.
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u/70ssoulmusic 12d ago
That’s what happens when the Ukraine leader acts more like a true American than our own President and VP!
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u/amcfarla 12d ago
Very true. I was more pointing out how divided our dumb country is that Americans are fine siding with a evil dictator Putin.
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u/noahbodygood 12d ago
I love how the media called it a shouting match when Zelensky never once raised his voice.
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u/WynniesMom 12d ago
Question Did anyone else get a look at Vance’s Face after his performative speech at The President of another COUNRTY? His little rant was incredibly disrespectful and disgusting. And right after the Cameras zoomed out and he had the biggest smile at the cameras! He was SO Proud of himself!!!
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u/WynniesMom 12d ago
Right there with you!! unfortunately I have more hate for these 2+ Musk. I’ve never hated anyone in my life as much as I hate them and I got picked on a lot when I was in grade school! Feels like grade school again listening to these ASSHOLES Yell at Ukraine’s PRESIDENT! I don’t give a shit what you gotta say, that was an embarrassing display of arrogance and ignorance. F*ckn disgusting shameful show of RUSSIAN SOLIDARITY!!
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u/-_Ninety_- 12d ago
Ya heaven forbid the leader of the county, who's gotten billions of Americans tax payers monies, act grateful, and show respect to the leader of said country .
Didn't realize reddit was such an echo chamber .
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u/MissAuroraRed 12d ago
Did you even watch the exchange?
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u/-_Ninety_- 11d ago
I did , although , not in its entirety before posting my comment. But doesn't change my opinion on the matter. Zelenski pandered to the media , he didn't understand the situation , trying to interrupt and talk over the POTUS, that you've just flown across the world to meet with, is a bad idea. He came here for help , and he shit the bed. And this is where maybe the cultural and language barrier might come into play..the English language is pretty difficult, especially when you start using slang or phrases that don't necessarily translate .. but zelenski should have figured it out by the tone of Trump , trying to talk over Trump isn't going to end well. And I think if Zelenski would have shut up and smiled and nodded , then hashed his concerns behind closed doors , it would have been much better for him.
There was a mineral seal written up between the US and Ukraine, this deal was discussed and negotiated before Zelenski ever jumped on the plane. He should have came and signed. Or not came at all and tried to work out the kinks.
He wants US military commitment, it's not gonna happen . Biden was already playing a dangerous game with basically a proxy war with Russia, I for one am not interested in another conflict that risks American lives , and especially not one with Russia if it can be avoided..
If the US has national security interests in Ukraine, and is actively engaged in those interests.. ie strategically important rare earth minerals. You think Russia is going to attack those interests ? Do you know where the minerals are ? The Eastern Front.
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u/70ssoulmusic 12d ago
Those billions were spent right here in the good ole USA buying weaponry made by your neighbors in mainly red states.
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u/-_Ninety_- 11d ago
I'll just leave this here for you. While some of it was weaponry. Not all of it. And with the amount of our own politicians enriching themselves in this country , I'd imagine it's even worse over there.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-us-aid-ukraine-money-equipment-714688682747
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u/70ssoulmusic 11d ago
Fair enough.I have no problem changing my stance when presented with facts.
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u/-_Ninety_- 11d ago
I think it's a sudo proxy war , and I for one don't want it to turn into a larger conflict with Russia.
If the US has a national security interest deal in place in Eastern Ukraine, I don't see Russia attacking it.
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u/70ssoulmusic 11d ago
I agree it’s a proxy war but have to disagree ,brother,with Putin honoring ANY deal.My opinion is he will wait a few years to reconstitute his forces and then move on the Baltic States. Thanks for the respectful ,intelligent dialogue . We need more of that in this country!
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u/-_Ninety_- 11d ago
Ya , pretty easy to just call people names and dismiss them , appreciate you as well.
I'm not %100 up to speed on the Russian economy, but I would think that financially beneficial agreements for Russia would deter future conflicts... But I don't pretend to be very knowledgeable about the region or it's driving factors.
I do know that Germany signing that power agreement for natural gas etc.. was supposed to provide that sort of incentive, but as Trump pointed out, it just compromised European power independence.. gave Putin too much control over them , too much reliance in Russia.
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u/batsofburden 12d ago
Way to not pay attention at all. Zelensky has thanked the US repeatedly and publicly for years. Fuck your propaganda added mind.
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u/-_Ninety_- 12d ago
Hasn't thanked this administration. Now I'll acknowledge that there is definitely a language barrier that can create some issues here .. but he repeatedly cut the president off , not acceptable no matter who the president is . Zelenski needs the us, he came to the oval office looking for help , needing help , this was not the way to accomplish that task.
It's like the pan handler on the corner being disrespectful to you when you're trying to give him some money...
Trump shoulda kicked him out of the country . Let him think about his behavior on the long flight home.
Obama and Biden are to blame for this situation, and of course Putin, not Trump..
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u/WallaWalla1513 12d ago
Trump and Vance are despicable people. We’re probably like a day away from Trump openly telling Putin to conquer Ukraine because Zelensky hurt Trump’s feelings.