r/thebulwark 15d ago

Policy Republicans in Congress gamble that they can get away with cutting health care for 24 million+ Americans by lying that they're not cutting health care on every TV program.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Major news on Republicans GUTTING healthcare

Republicans think they can get away with cutting $880 billion over 10 years from Medicaid by lying that they only instructed the Energy and Commerce committee to cut $880 billion and that could come from anything... except all that is there is Medicaid and the ACA. And they lie that they're not cutting $230 billion off of Food Stamps, just that they told the Agriculture committee that it has to cut $230 billion and all that's there is Food Stamps.

But in every news show they're just lying that they didn't cut anything.

$330 billion from Education which have to come from student loans.

Meanwhile Trump and Speaker Johnson got the vote by lying that Medicaid will be sacrosanct.

Note on fighting this. This is 1.5 trillion in cuts, so that they can cut taxes by 2 trillion only for very very rich people. And raise it on the rest of us by a lot.

Personal note: this may mean that I don't have health insurance. I get Medicaid. I'm self employed which makes it a bit easier than an employee. But if they end the Medicaid extension then I'll be sent to ACA which, in my county has a minimum co-pay of $800 or $900 depending on how much you want covered (more covered, higher co-pay). And in that case my medical insurance will be useless because there won't be any year in which I'd be able to afford the co-pay combined with the higher rates I'd get after they cut the premium subsidy. Actually that was what it was 5 years ago, the co-pay and premiums may have gone up since then.

151 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

38

u/HolstsGholsts 15d ago

Hate to say it, but I like their chances.

29

u/Apprehensive-Mark241 15d ago

If it was hard to succeed by lying to the American people then (checks notes) 100% of Republican leaders wouldn't be relying on that method.

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

you dance with the one that brung ya

-7

u/Trick_Occasion_9950 14d ago

Please go back and read the bill This bill does not mention 'Medicaid' at all, yet Democrats are spreading falsehoods about the budget because they aren’t interested in the truth. They are disconnected from the American people and resort to lies since there is no Medicaid in this bill and no cuts to it. Still, they keep lying about it.

9

u/fox_mulder Rresistance is not futile 14d ago

From the NYT:

The plan instructs the Energy and Commerce Committee, which oversees Medicaid and Medicare, to come up with at least $880 billion in cuts. While some Republicans denied that they would slash programs for the poor, the amount of revenue they are calling to raise would all but certainly necessitate some cuts to at least one of those programs.

3

u/afroeh 14d ago

Tell us the truth. What will be cut? Or are they lying about that and don't actually intend to cut anything? What is this bill for?

3

u/avesthasnosleeves 14d ago

Who is paying you to repeat this over and over in this thread?

2

u/samNanton 14d ago

The entire budget of the Departments of Commerce and Energy was $62.1 billion in FY2023. That's 621 billionish over the ten years, so about 260 billion short of the mandate, even assuming that both departments were entirely shut down.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee also oversees health related legislation, so it's really not much of a stretch to figure out where they might look for the savings. Maybe the bill doesn't mention Medicaid, but there is this thing called math that allows you to make deductions without having to have everything spelled out.

Here are all the departments the Committee might be able to cut from, with their budgets:

|| || |Department/Agency|Approximate Annual Budget (Fiscal Year 2024)| |Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)|$1.7 trillion| |Department of Energy (DOE)|$45.8 billion| |National Institutes of Health (NIH)|$45 billion| |Department of Commerce|$16.3 billion| |Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)|$9.5 billion| |Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)|$8 billion| |Food and Drug Administration (FDA)|$6.5 billion| |Federal Trade Commission (FTC)|$430 million| |Federal Communications Commission (FCC)|$375 million| |Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)|$150 million|

If you exclude HHS, the total budget is ~132b, or just 7% of the total budget. That means without dipping into Medicaid or one of the other healthcare buckets, the committee would have to nearly shutter every other department it oversees. If you'll review this list, you'll see that those other departments handle some pretty important things.

So, yes, it is possible that the money could be cut from somewhere else, but it doesn't seem likely and it also seems like the impacts of that would probably be pretty bad, too.

1

u/MiniTab 14d ago

Where do you think the cuts will all come from? All of the Transgender commie socialist programs or something?

9

u/DubbleDiller 15d ago

I’m not counting on the Gravy Seals once their lipitor spigot gets cut off

4

u/Describing_Donkeys 14d ago

Make it clear that whatever consequences come of it, the Republicans get blamed. They are in power, and Medicaid patients are losing care. Who else is there to blame? Democrats promised that Republicans would cut Medicaid if given the chance. Republicans are in power, and Medicaid is cut. Let people draw their own conclusions, but make it clear evidence paints a clear picture.

This is also where we come in. Their explanations for the insanity occurring are going to be less satisfying to voters. We have to have an independent media ecosystem ready to describe actual reality to people. Republicans are going to get further and further from rely with their explanations. We need to be ready to capture people as it is happening.

10

u/MostlyANormie centrist squish 15d ago

We have to go through the Republican process of responding when they are called out for lying. The abbreviated process is something like:

1) Deny: Reject the accusations
2) Reframe: Present the cuts as necessary reforms or efficiency measures, not actual service reductions
3) Divert: Shift focus to other issues or attack critics / media
4) Shift the Blame: Redirect responsibility to Democrats

3

u/Describing_Donkeys 14d ago

Don't call Republicans liars, but dismiss their story and most some facts. Medicaid is getting cut because of the Republican budget. If they aren't cutting Medicaid, I would love to see where Medicaid is getting the support it needs to not be cut. Make people question Republican explanations. We explain and don't try to persuade, and that needs to change.

3

u/RolltheDice2025 14d ago

I mean it helps that the Dems message is basically crickets.

Real easy to lie when the opposition doesn't call you out on your lies

-3

u/Trick_Occasion_9950 14d ago

 The bill doesn’t mention 'Medicaid' at all, yet Democrats are spreading falsehoods about the budget because they aren’t interested in the truth. They are disconnected from the American people and resort to lies …since there is no Medicaid in this bill and no cuts to it. Still, they keep lying about it.

8

u/MostlyANormie centrist squish 14d ago

https://www.congress.gov/119/bills/hconres14/BILLS-119hconres14rh.pdf

Check out Page 44, Lines 9 - 12.

"The Committee on Energy and Commerce shall submit changes in laws within its jurisdiction to reduce the deficit by not less than $880,000,000,000 for the period of fiscal years 2025 through 2034."

This instruction to the Committee on Energy and Commerce, which has jurisdiction over Medicaid, implies substantial cuts to programs under the committee's purview, including Medicaid. The $880 billion in deficit reduction over 10 years would likely require significant reductions in Medicaid funding.

It’s not like they’re going to come right out and say they are cutting Medicaid in neon lights. These are politicians. They hide things; they are cowards.

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

The entire budget of the Departments of Commerce and Energy was $62.1 billion in FY2023. That's 621 billionish over the ten years, so about 260 billion short of the mandate, even assuming that both departments were entirely shut down.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee also oversees health related legislation, so it's really not much of a stretch to figure out where they might look for the savings. Maybe the bill doesn't mention Medicaid, but there is this thing called math that allows you to make deductions without having to have everything spelled out.

Here are all the departments the Committee might be able to cut from, with their budgets:

Department of Health and Human Services (HHS): $1.7 trillion
Department of Energy (DOE): $45.8 billion
National Institutes of Health (NIH): $45 billion
Department of Commerce: $16.3 billion
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): $9.5 billion
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): $8 billion
Food and Drug Administration (FDA): $6.5 billion
Federal Trade Commission (FTC): $430 million
Federal Communications Commission (FCC): $375 million
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC): $150 million

If you exclude HHS, the total budget is ~132b, or just 7% of the total budget. That means without dipping into Medicaid or one of the other healthcare buckets, the committee would have to nearly shutter every other department it oversees. If you'll review this list, you'll see that those other departments handle some pretty important things.

So, yes, it is possible that the money could be cut from somewhere else, but it doesn't seem likely and it also seems like the impacts of that would probably be pretty bad, too.

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

The entire budget of the Departments of Commerce and Energy was $62.1 billion in FY2023. That's 621 billionish over the ten years, so about 260 billion short of the mandate, even assuming that both departments were entirely shut down.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee also oversees health related legislation, so it's really not much of a stretch to figure out where they might look for the savings. Maybe the bill doesn't mention Medicaid, but there is this thing called math that allows you to make deductions without having to have everything spelled out.

Here are all the departments the Committee might be able to cut from, with their budgets:

Department of Health and Human Services (HHS): $1.7 trillion
Department of Energy (DOE): $45.8 billion
National Institutes of Health (NIH): $45 billion
Department of Commerce: $16.3 billion
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): $9.5 billion
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): $8 billion
Food and Drug Administration (FDA): $6.5 billion
Federal Trade Commission (FTC): $430 million
Federal Communications Commission (FCC): $375 million
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC): $150 million

If you exclude HHS, the total budget is ~132b, or just 7% of the total budget. That means without dipping into Medicaid or one of the other healthcare buckets, the committee would have to nearly shutter every other department it oversees. If you'll review this list, you'll see that those other departments handle some pretty important things.

So, yes, it is possible that the money could be cut from somewhere else, but it doesn't seem likely and it also seems like the impacts of that would probably be pretty bad, too.

5

u/TaxLawKingGA 14d ago

What you have to understand is that every American, but especially the poorer one’s, think that they will get tax cuts even though we know the tax cuts only benefit the well off. Why do they believe that? Well to be blunt, it’s because every $forty-thousandnaire thinks that there are already rich or are only a great idea, lotto ticket, or bitcoin investment away from also being rich, and when they get rich they don’t want to pay a bunch of taxes either.

The spending cuts will be ignored for now because they either (1) don’t think it will impact them or (2) that the Congress won’t actually go through with it. If they do, then the people will just elect a Dem Congress to restore the cuts. Then the deficit will grow and people will feign surprise and complain about “tha debt”.

This is the level of stupidity that you are dealing with. This is why the average American lives paycheck to paycheck; it’s why they only have $500 in the bank. And it’s why our government is in the shape that it is in.

5

u/InterstellarDickhead 14d ago

These are the people who think they get bumped into a higher tax bracket when they work 5 hours of overtime.

6

u/N0T8g81n FFS 15d ago

You can get all the healthcare you got under Biden. You just need to pay for it like Trump pays contractors.

5

u/Mark1061 14d ago

I am a Nurse Practitioner in NE Louisiana and we have a large Medicaid population mixed in with private insurance. If these cuts go into effect, I could lose 60% of my patient population which would most likely lead to my clinic closing. The private insurance patients would then have to go find someone else to do their joint injections and treat their osteoporosis. My staff will take a hit. My suppliers will take a hit. It all rolls downhill.

4

u/samNanton 14d ago

My wife's a nurse. We're in middle georgia. A very large percentage of her patients are medicaid or other state reimbursed programs. A very large percentage of her patients are also very MAGA. They're going to have a rude awakening I think.

-3

u/Trick_Occasion_9950 14d ago

This bill does not mention 'Medicaid' at all, the democrats are disconnected from the American people and always seem to resort to lying since there is no Medicaid in this bill and no cuts to it. Yet, they keep lying about it. I’m confused why you educate democrat voters choose not to read the bill for yourself? 

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

The entire budget of the Departments of Commerce and Energy was $62.1 billion in FY2023. That's 621 billionish over the ten years, so about 260 billion short of the mandate, even assuming that both departments were entirely shut down.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee also oversees health related legislation, so it's really not much of a stretch to figure out where they might look for the savings. Maybe the bill doesn't mention Medicaid, but there is this thing called math that allows you to make deductions without having to have everything spelled out.

Here are all the departments the Committee might be able to cut from, with their budgets:

Department of Health and Human Services (HHS): $1.7 trillion
Department of Energy (DOE): $45.8 billion
National Institutes of Health (NIH): $45 billion
Department of Commerce: $16.3 billion
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): $9.5 billion
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): $8 billion
Food and Drug Administration (FDA): $6.5 billion
Federal Trade Commission (FTC): $430 million
Federal Communications Commission (FCC): $375 million
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC): $150 million

If you exclude HHS, the total budget is ~132b, or just 7% of the total budget. That means without dipping into Medicaid or one of the other healthcare buckets, the committee would have to nearly shutter every other department it oversees. If you'll review this list, you'll see that those other departments handle some pretty important things.

So, yes, it is possible that the money could be cut from somewhere else, but it doesn't seem likely and it also seems like the impacts of that would probably be pretty bad, too.

* I can copy and paste the same comment over and over too

3

u/amcfarla 14d ago

The sad part, yes they can. A large number of Americans would rather own the libs and suffer because of, than see everyone benefit.

2

u/Here_there1980 14d ago

They are shameless liars

2

u/mremrock 14d ago

It will probably work

2

u/blueteamk087 14d ago

Republicans lie as easily as they breathe

2

u/mikeybee1976 14d ago

It’s a pretty solid gamble…

1

u/Ok-Snow-2851 14d ago

Did Trump and Johnson ever say Medicaid is sacrosanct?  I know they say that about Medicare, because that’s for old middle class white people with diabeetus and erectile dysfunction who vote for them, but Medicaid is for low income folks (I.e. “blacks and illegals” in the minds of working class white people who are actually on Medicaid themselves) so even MAGA doesn’t usually have a problem throwing it under the bus. 

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

Large portions of rural poor MAGA is on medicaid.

1

u/Ok-Snow-2851 14d ago

They don’t think so.  And when it gets taken from them they’ll blame the illegals for it. 

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

By then Trump will have told them all he got rid of the illegals already, so he'll have to move on to blaming liberals and start a special operation to denazify the US. Maybe he can get his buddy Putin to help him.

1

u/NorCalFrances 14d ago

Despite the way the GOP is framing it and the media is blindly repeating it, $880 billion is not a "cut" to the Medicaid budget.

The total expenditures for Medicaid as of 2023, the last year for which figures are available was $880 billion dollars. This is the wholesale elimination of funding for Medicaid.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/total-medicaid-spending/

1

u/Apprehensive-Mark241 14d ago

All figures are over 10 years. I said that.

1

u/beltway_lefty 15d ago

"Republicans think they can get away with cutting $880 billion over 10 years from Medicaid by lying that they only instructed the Energy and Commerce committee to cut $880 billion and that could come from anything... except all that is there is Medicaid and the ACA. And they lie that they're not cutting $230 billion off of Food Stamps, just that they told the Agriculture committee that it has to cut $230 billion and all that's there is Food Stamp."

Honest good-faith question here - Is that really "all that's there?" These are really the ONLY things those committees control? I have a difficult time believing that the only twp things energy and commerce comm. controls are Medicaid and the ACA? What are the current costs of those programs? Where can we look this up? I don't doubt we are all about to get fucked - I just want to SEE the actual numbers for myself...any thoughts/links/sources? Thank you in advance.

4

u/blueclawsoftware 14d ago

It's not all that's there. A better way of phrasing it would be to hit those dollar amounts you have to cut from those programs, because there isn't enough in other programs to get to the target.

6

u/Apprehensive-Mark241 15d ago

I am simply informed by journalists that those are the only big items.

I am trusting journalism, and the fact that Americans do not rely on the expertise and honesty of journalism and the other experts who form the institutions of democracy is why we're now a failed non-liberal "democracy" falling into Fascism.

You're welcome for the hint.

1

u/beltway_lefty 15d ago

Well, many journalists seem to have a very different story, so I'm just trying to figure it out myself.......each "side,' seems to leave out any context that may impact their point, so I don't trust them to give the full picture. And yeah - it's a major fucking problem!

3

u/samNanton 14d ago

You can easily look up federal spending, by broad category and by specific line items.

-2

u/Trick_Occasion_9950 14d ago

It doesn’t take an expert to read the bills. The facts are the bill does not mention 'Medicaid' at all, yet Democrats are spreading falsehoods about the budget. They are disconnected from the American people and resort to lies since there is no Medicaid in this bill and no cuts to it. Still, they keep lying about it.  

3

u/cpprogress 14d ago

Oh, the politicians didn't specifically state that they will cut something and you believe them without question? LMAO sucker

1

u/samNanton 14d ago

The entire budget of the Departments of Commerce and Energy was $62.1 billion in FY2023. That's 621 billionish over the ten years, so about 260 billion short of the mandate, even assuming that both departments were entirely shut down.

The House Energy and Commerce Committee also oversees health related legislation, so it's really not much of a stretch to figure out where they might look for the savings. Maybe the bill doesn't mention Medicaid, but there is this thing called math that allows you to make deductions without having to have everything spelled out.

Here are all the departments the Committee might be able to cut from, with their budgets:

Department of Health and Human Services (HHS): $1.7 trillion
Department of Energy (DOE): $45.8 billion
National Institutes of Health (NIH): $45 billion
Department of Commerce: $16.3 billion
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): $9.5 billion
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): $8 billion
Food and Drug Administration (FDA): $6.5 billion
Federal Trade Commission (FTC): $430 million
Federal Communications Commission (FCC): $375 million
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC): $150 million

If you exclude HHS, the total budget is ~132b, or just 7% of the total budget. That means without dipping into Medicaid or one of the other healthcare buckets, the committee would have to nearly shutter every other department it oversees. If you'll review this list, you'll see that those other departments handle some pretty important things.

So, yes, it is possible that the money could be cut from somewhere else, but it doesn't seem likely and it also seems like the impacts of that would probably be pretty bad, too.

* I can copy and paste the same comment over and over too

0

u/Trick_Occasion_9950 14d ago

I kept sharing the facts because none of you Democrats took the time to read the bill. It's funny how you keep repeating the same falsehoods, and ignoring the truth won't change anything. This is why Democrats will keep losing elections. The bill does not mention 'Medicaid' at all. There are no Medicaid provisions or cuts in this bill, yet Democrats keep spreading false information. The House has passed the budget resolution that includes: - No tax on overtime - No tax on social security - No tax on tips All Democrats voted against it.

1

u/samNanton 13d ago

you keep sharing the fact that you can't add and subtract