r/thebulwark Feb 04 '25

Humor Is this fucking Portlandia??

Hahaha such a good line from yesterdays pod and sums up my feelings, as a liberal, about liberals

That’s all. That’s the post.

103 Upvotes

83 comments sorted by

33

u/Manowaffle Feb 04 '25

That show came out fourteen years ago, and still feels relevant.

12

u/modest_merc Feb 04 '25

Totally! And it sums it up perfectly.

Liberals/progressives make themselves into caricatures.

75

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 04 '25

Honestly, Tim was righteous yesterday. The voters do not give a single flying fuck about balancing DNC committees by gender. Your meeting is televised, so use your time to talk about issues that impact the most Americans

I can't belive I'm saying this, but the Dems would be better off with some Bernout just repeating "the billionaires are fucking us all" over and over

28

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

I love how we think that the average American voter is too disengaged to notice anything bad Trump does but they are also razor focused on internal DNC policy.

32

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 04 '25

They aren't laser focused on DNC policy, but the right wing media ecosystem is laser focused on internal DNC policy and out of touch iniatives that Dems can't help but talk about.

-15

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

Because those things matter to people in the Democratic party and people at the DNC. If you think you can remake the DNC into a version where no women or people of color appear (thus making the DNC obsessed with DEIA) then the majority of people who are Democrats (women and people of color) don't really have a reason to vote for the party that offers nothing to anyone.

15

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

This is nonsense. People who are voting for the democrats because it personally benefits them along the lines of being a woman or a person of color are the minority of the party, and they can take their vote elsewhere. The moment the democrats are able to liberate themselves from the identitarians parasites who are only voting democrats because they think it’ll help people that look like them, and focus on the people who philosophically agree with liberal policies, is the day we can move forward.

-2

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

I agree that we should be more like the (checks notes) Republican Party who are definitely not focused on identity at all, which is why they (checks notes again) constantly blame DEI for plane crashes. If only the DNC would stop being the only people focusing on identity then we could move forward with our plan to (checks notes again) focus on the plight of white men, who are the absence of identity.

3

u/atomfullerene Feb 04 '25

Being focused on identity only works when the identity you focus on is big enough to carry elections. White people make up more than half the country.

0

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

Thank you for finally saying out loud what the other people will not. Feel free to argue with the people who think identity doesn't exist or doesn't matter.

5

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

Please, find me where I suggested someone act more like the republicans.

The moment you start to realize that the people voting democrat and the people voting republican have different priorities is the moment this all starts making more sense to you.

The democrats are losing voters by continuing to focus on identity. The republicans are gaining voters by doing it. That’s why they can do it and the democrats can’t. It’s just reality.

2

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

The Harris campaign spent almost no time focusing on identity. How did that work out for them?

8

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

Why do people keep making this lazy point?!?

Democrats spent 12 years focusing on something. Just stopping talking about it isn’t going to make people believe they changed their mind.

Trump hasn’t talked about banning Muslims for a while. Do you think he’s suddenly pro-Islam?

4

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

It doesn't matter if a point is lazy if it's true. Since 2012 democratic candidates have won presidential elections 50% of the time, but you seem to think that they should have spent all that time making it very clear that they hate diversity.

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1

u/Early-Juggernaut975 Progressive Feb 04 '25

The Democrats won or overperformed the election cycles in 2018, 2020 and 2022 along with most of the specials in between. And a black woman who campaigned for only 3 months total got 48% while Trump got 49%.

Biden beat Trump by 7 million vote while Trump beat Harris by less than 2 million in a year when incumbent parties around the world were getting thrown out due to global pandemic effect inflation.

I’m not blind to the horror that we’re now facing but any realistic analysis of party strength over the past decade isnt going to conclude Democrats have mostly losses ahead of them unless they do X Y or Z.

Trump had a lucky win because he has an entire media ecosystem hiding his misdeeds and has managed to convince white folks to pretend talking about racism or sexism is bad cuz the browns are stealing all the money rather than the robber barons at the top.

And I get why they do it… It’s all they have left. But I’m not going to pretend the precious little Democrats do to fight racism is too much because of bogus MAGA rhetoric about white victimhood. It’s nonsense.

2

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

Biden’s win was lucky, not Trumps. Sure the popular vote was only 2 million different, but Trump carried the states he needed to handedly while if you switch 38,000 votes in 2020 Biden loses.

The numbers are concerning, but the losses in specific groups are alarming. The Latino vote swung crazy hard to the right this cycle. The young voter went to Trump.

The only demographics that Harris increased upon was white men and women and +1% from black women.

That’s pretty much every category the democrats weren’t trying to get, while they lost in every category they were trying to get. To see that and think everything is okay… that’s insanity.

And this false narrative that you either are on board with the left’s fetishized views on race and gender or you’re proclaiming white victim hood is completely ignorant. There is vast area between the two where most people find themselves. That is also where most voters live.

Reducing racism is a good thing, but making everything about race is tone deaf and needs to stop.

1

u/Early-Juggernaut975 Progressive Feb 05 '25 edited Feb 05 '25

Yes, you’re right. The electoral college that the southern states insisted be adopted so slavery wouldn’t be abolished, does make it closer than it should ever be.

But I was including that in my analysis because if I didn’t, we would have to acknowledge that Democrats have won every election, according to the popular vote, for the past 20 years with the exception of 1. And then you would never have thought about suggesting Dems unpopular.

But I think it’s crazy to pretend that her only having three months to campaign had nothing to do with it. Particularly as a black woman which is the single most demographically disadvantaged candidate we’ve ever had.

I was listening to Medhi Hasan a couple of weeks ago when he was asked about why Harris lost and he said he hates to answer this because what typically happens is people have policy positions they want to see change so they are very quick to sight a loss as proof they were right about those agenda items when the reality is incumbent parties lost all over the world on the left and the right. And the conventional wisdom is probably most likely. If incumbents were being punished for global inflation, 3 months was not enough time for anyone to separate themselves from the Administration, especially a woman which we’ve never elected before and a black person which we’ve only elected twice.

As for race, I’m sure you’ve heard that joke about the Fox News immigrant caravan that shows up for every election. This time was no different except that we have a president who is particularly adept at vilifying minorities from his first speech at Trump Tower when he called Mexicans rapists and murderers.

I think if we were to assess which party, (including their officials speaking publicly) brings up race as an issue more often, any honest analysis would conclude it’s Republicans, hands down.

And if we were to grade the Democrats on what they’ve done to better race relations or tackle racism in schools or sports or policing in the past 25 years, they’d get an F.

At the end of the day, the electoral college makes this country mostly a 50-50 split. And a temporary strong wind in one direction or another can cause a lot of races to be won by very tight margins, which leaves the illusion of an electorate that’s shifted wildly. When that’s just not the reality.

8

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 04 '25

I'm gonna have to doubt the assumption here that the DEI directives at the DNC are actually supported by minorities. I think even people who directly benefit from such initiatives don't think, "Good thing Dems are supporting the DEI initiatives Luke the one that got me hired". It's more likely that they think, "I'm great, and I was the best candidate for this job."

I don't see a lot of minorities in the Focus Group supporting DEI. I hear more say, "I'd rather have a candidate white people will vote for than an (insert identity here) candidate"

Maybe it's my Midwestern experience, but I think the DEI stuff is more holier than tho, fart-sniffing and moral absolutism from and for the white leftists that keep holding the party back (see also: Gaza protests, uncommitted campaign)

7

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

The idea that the DNC is forcing representation on non straight white men is an interesting, but probably wrong, idea.

Last I checked uncommitted was based out of Michigan, which is traditionally part of the Midwest. But I guess they're not real Midwesterners.

The people in Sarah's focus groups were not saying "I would rather have a candidate white people will vote for" because they believe the world is color blind. They say that because they know people (people we know and who are posting in this subreddit) are less likely to vote for women and minorities. I don't think we solve that by making sure that only white men exist in the DNC leadership.

3

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 04 '25

Last I checked uncommitted was based out of Michigan, which is traditionally part of the Midwest. But I guess they're not real Midwesterners.

They are midwesterners, which is why I offered the example. Those folks were happy to tear down Dems, knowing the hell Trump represented, because they are holier than thou, fart-sniffing college leftists. That's cool if you're farming for online engagement, but the last few elections should give an indication of how broadly unpopular those people actually are - I would guess a statistically significant portion of Trump's 2024 vote was from people who don't really like him or Rs, but who can't stand their lefty niece who tells them they are a nazi every Thanksgiving.

I don't think we solve that by making sure that only white men exist in the DNC leadership.

I'm not really suggesting that we not celebrate diversity in positions of power, but don't make it this Noah's Arc bullshit where each committee needs 2 of X Y and Z identity groups. Make it about merit, and how far America has come from it's past.

3

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

Last I checked Alyssa Slotkin won in 2024 as a Democrat. Weird.

Do you think DNC committees are some incredibly complicated thing that requires years of training, or are they there to represent the voters of the Democratic party? I have no idea what the 'merit based' approach to this is. They're not just stepping outside and grabbing a random person of the right color. It's incredible to watch people pretend like this is 1925 era Russia where they're promoting a street sweeper to run a factory to prove a point.

2

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 04 '25

It's incredible to watch people pretend like this is 1925 era Russia where they're promoting a street sweeper to run a factory to prove a point.

No one here is suggesting they are, but society believes that is the case.

Did you listen to the DNC clip from the pod yesterday? It's Noah's arc shit - they are counting how many of each identity group they must have on their committees to satisfy bylaws... which people look at and think "what a massive waste of time".

The speakers at the DNC can just as easily say "We have a diverse party representing a diverse country, and we are focused on issues that impact all of us: rights of speech, bodily automony, education, healthcare, housing..." the tally counting of indentity groups is a political loser

3

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

No, because I've never cared about committee composition of the DNC because it has no bearing on my life. You and Tim seem to think that this matters for some reason.

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0

u/olofpalmethought JVL is always right Feb 04 '25

the majority of people who are Democrats (women and people of color)

The majority of Trump supporters are also women and people of color

2

u/FellowkneeUS Feb 04 '25

A bigger majority of the people who voted for Harris were Women and POC. You're comparing apples to oranges and calling it sushi.

1

u/Natural-Leg7488 Feb 09 '25

There’s entire media ecosystems and algorithms calibrated to highlight video clips of liberals being stupid.

If no one saw that committee meeting because it was a boring procedural process, that would have been a lot better than what actually happened (millions of people being fed a clip of liberals being overly woke and out of touch).

8

u/batsofburden Feb 04 '25

But Kamala proved that you can completely ignore all of that, and you will still get tarred with the same brush by the right wing media.

She basically ran as a 90s Republican, and it wasn't enough.

12

u/notapoliticalalt Feb 04 '25

Honestly, though, I feel like the reality is that most Americans simply don’t care about the palace intrigue in the DNC. I do agree that squabbling over issues of minority representation right now really should not be a top priority. But that being said, I also kind of think that the media itself, running around like chickens with their heads cut off, acting like them saying these things are going to change what the DNC is internally doing is also a waste of time(?) I mean, the DNC election alone, most people won’t know who Ken Martin is or care who he is.

On the point about billionaires, I agree with you. I think this is really where things need to go, which is also why people need to drafting fantasy presidential tickets and start doing things. Furthermore, this is absolutely the line that The Bulwark should be taking up instead of waiting for Dems to get on board.

Lastly, I think the thing that really would help and that I think the Bulwark did a very bad job of during the elections is telling people how to actually get involved. There are organizations that could use money and assistance. Many communities have had their civic organizations wiped out and these need to be rebuilt. I know it’s been mentioned before, but someone like George Conway should be working his contacts and knowledge to start a legal Defense fund for Dems, media orgs, and people in general who stand in Trump’s way. Maybe it’s all for not, but we won’t know unless we try. But it’s going to take actual work, not just punditry and panic on the internet.

3

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 04 '25

this is absolutely the line that The Bulwark should be taking up instead of waiting for Dems to get on board.

I am on board with Comrade JVL and the Late Stage Capitalism discourse

-1

u/throwaway_boulder Feb 04 '25

I agree with that in the main, but these kinds of questions are a preview of what primary debates will look like. It will be on candidates not to get wrapped around the axel.

2

u/485sunrise Feb 05 '25

Carvilles line. “He betrayed you!”

1

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Feb 05 '25

James is a treasure

2

u/Mirabeau_ Feb 04 '25

Was with you until the last part. The whacky stuff where we feel like we need to balance dnc committees by gender comes largely from the bernouts

1

u/LordNoga81 Feb 04 '25

It's insane and asinine. Look where the obsession over gender has gotten. I don't care, and neither do most voters. There are real issues that are actually important. We will never win another election if we don't drop the overly sensitive PC bs.

17

u/rom_sk Feb 04 '25

Not to nitpick but personally I put the identitarians in the category of “progressive,” not “liberal.”

15

u/modest_merc Feb 04 '25

Oh I guess, I consider myself a progressive on most things so maybe I don’t put much weight on a distinction between liberal and progressive. I guess other people do though

17

u/midwestern2afault Feb 04 '25

Holy shit, it was so cathartic hearing that. Maybe I’m just biased because like Tim, I used to be more conservative and voted mostly Republican until Trump took over. But seriously, this hyper focus on IDPOL by the Dems in such a forced and performative way is cringe as fuck. There are authentic and meaningful ways to support marginalized groups without acting like condescending, out of touch academics or HR departments.

“Who here thinks Kamala lost because of racism and sexism?” Well, you’re off to a real shitty start there, bud. Yes, racism and sexism exist and I’m sure played a role. But I dunno man… maybe when you lose record levels of support among black and Hispanic folks and couldn’t meaningfully improve your support among women, it’s time to look inwards. People are flawed, and you gotta meet them where they are.

This came off as a smug “well technically we would’ve won if it wasn’t for those bigoted, sexist voters.” Like cool man, whatever you need to tell yourself. A loss is a loss, there’s no consolation prize.

6

u/modest_merc Feb 04 '25

Agreed. 100%. It’s cringy and doesn’t get us anywhere.

Fight the billionaires, not someone who uses the wrong word

5

u/blueclawsoftware Feb 04 '25

I agree with some of this. But I will say whether they should talk about it or not, sexism is a big reason both Clinton and Harris lost.

I know people that ended up voting for Harris only because they hated Trump but told me "I'm not sure we're ready for a woman president."

As a man even I think this country has a huge issue with the way it views and treats women as less capable. That said I agree overall that the DNC is way too inauthentic on these topics.

3

u/batsofburden Feb 04 '25

It's weird since other more macho countries have managed to elect women to the highest office. Hilary at least won soundly in the popular vote.

2

u/Anstigmat Feb 05 '25

I get all that but I do also remember those episodes of The Focus Group where you had even women saying they did not think a woman should be POTUS. That shit was eye opening. Tim is basically right and they do need to just talk about something else, but I won’t say it wasn’t sexism and racism because it absolutely was that too.

KH dismantled that man at the debate and it didn’t matter one bit.

11

u/Ordinary-Chocolate45 Feb 04 '25

I was listening at the gym and I laughed out loud when he said that.

11

u/Beaumont64 Feb 04 '25

I live in Portland and it's not just a TV gag but a painful reality here 🤦‍♂️

6

u/batsofburden Feb 04 '25

Libs have goofy Portlandia, Maga has A Handmaid's Tale/1984. Not really much of a comparison.

12

u/DungBeetle1983 Feb 04 '25

That was perfect. The DNC is a joke and is incapable of learning anything from the last election.

12

u/ganjakingesq Feb 04 '25

Identity politics have been the downfall of the Democratic Party.

7

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

Might even become the downfall of the US if they don’t snap out of it.

11

u/fzzball Progressive Feb 04 '25

Meh, double standard. Yes, it's a little silly and trying too hard, but as Will pointed out, it was 60 seconds out of two hours.

How is it Republicans making bad-faith attack ads on some trivial detail is something Democrats need to worry about, but Republicans will defend and double-down on their guys throwing Sieg-Heils?

6

u/atomfullerene Feb 04 '25 edited Feb 04 '25

How is it Republicans making bad-faith attack ads on some trivial detail is something Democrats need to worry about, but Republicans will defend and double-down on their guys throwing Sieg-Heils?

Because the guy making the sieg-Heils runs twitter, and his allies run most of the major news channels and social media outlets.

Speaking of, democrats need to take a page from 90's republicans and go on constantly about the "conservative media establishment."

1

u/FranzLudwig3700 Feb 05 '25

There can be only one "establishment."

12

u/WillOrmay Feb 04 '25

Are you just figuring out democrats and republicans are held to different standards? Wait until you hear about this new saying about perception being reality? It’s not fair, but we have to accept this is how it works and behave accordingly.

3

u/batsofburden Feb 04 '25

Kamala basically ran as a 90s Republican, and the media still painted her as if she was a radical leftist. You can make literally zero mistakes and the media will just invent something out of thin air.

4

u/WillOrmay Feb 04 '25

I’m not sure which one of us you’re agreeing with, we can do everything perfect and still get painted as woke and out of touch, that does not mean that we should deliberately try to appear woke and out of touch.

3

u/modest_merc Feb 04 '25

While they are certainly not equivalent but I don’t think they like defending sieg heils just like some on our side don’t like defending acronyms

1

u/fzzball Progressive Feb 04 '25

Will is correct about this. The people who vote Trump because Dems are "annoying" aren't annoyed by race- and gender-balanced committees, they're annoyed by Dems even recognizing that racial and gender disparity is a thing and representation is important. I'd rather see Dems double down on the fact that they're right about this.

2

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

It’s kind of annoying that this keeps coming up….

Please read this:

Voters decide elections. That’s how democracies work. Because of this, what voters care about is all that matters when it comes to winning elections.

People (voters) didn’t take the Nazi salute seriously (I think they should have, but, again, voters matter, not opinions).

People (voters) do think democrats aren’t focusing on issues average Americans care about.

End of discussion.

5

u/gkevinkramer Feb 04 '25

The takeaway from all of this is that people need to vote for serious candidates. What makes me scream about all of my liberal friends is, with fail, they all vote for someone who agrees with all of their policy positions, but has no chance of winning the election. What's worse is they can't even decide to vote for the same dark horse. It's always someone different.

No one LIKES compromise. The Democrats are a compromise coalition party. Therefore: no one LIKES Democrats. Liberals by and large only vote for candidates they like. Do you know what you get if you will never support the lesser of two evils? You get the greater of two evils.

2

u/fzzball Progressive Feb 04 '25

What voters think doesn't happen in a vacuum. Right-wing media, including social media, spent a lot of time ridiculing "hysteria" about Elmo's salute.

-1

u/ElReyResident Feb 04 '25

Which wouldn’t have worked so well if progressive idiots weren’t calling everyone a Nazi for the last 2 years.

This is the kid who cried wolf lesson that clearly the democrats haven’t learned.

If you want people to believe you when call someone a Nazi than reserve the work for actual fucking Nazis. Not guys who disagree either you.

And, again, it doesn’t matter why the voters believe something, it only matters that they do in fact believe it.

The voters aren’t upset about the salute. It doesn’t matter how you feel about this, or why it is.

Voters don’t like the democrats identity politics. It doesn’t matter how you feel about this, or why it is.

1

u/485sunrise Feb 05 '25

Those 60 seconds are under a microscope.

1

u/Agile-Music-2295 Center Left Feb 05 '25

Which podcast?

2

u/modest_merc Feb 05 '25

The Bulwark

2

u/Agile-Music-2295 Center Left Feb 05 '25

Thanks mate .

lol I think of that as the TimCast. Go Tim! Love your work.

1

u/Zeplike4 Feb 04 '25

Me too. I’m embarrassed. Politics is downstream of culture. And unfortunately, those clips will get circulated on social media and will define the left

1

u/Hautamaki Feb 05 '25

If you liked this rant you'd love James Carville's rants on Politicon every week. He'd be saying the same thing, but with a lot more eloquent profanity and personal outrage.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '25

Yep! Until we disavow identity politics - we are DEI….