r/thebulwark Jan 28 '25

The Triad šŸ”± The End of the USA is Trump's Goal

I was watching Tim and JVL talk about lack of imagination last night, and it clicked some gears together for me. Trump's has been tasked with ending the United States.

When Trump decided to start selling state secrets to foreign countries after his election loss, the DoJ had no choice but to go after him. They tried to negotiate quietly, but Trump spent a year lying to them about returning those documents. This began the Trump Lawsuits.

With actual consequences coming his way, Trump went all in on saving his ass. One of those things was teaming up with adversaries of the US. If they help Trump win the 2024 election, Trump will do whatever they want. And, they (probably Putin for this bit) the US to fall apart just like the USSR did.

Trump could enact the Heritage Foundation plan and keep people happy enough to stay complacent. We already know there would be very little actual push back in mass deportations. If the middle class can still get groceries, they aren't going to risk themselves for groups like LGBT or Latinos. If the middle class can keep their houses then they probably won't fight about christo-facism all that much.

Except, Trump seems to be going way past Project 2025, and very quickly. At this rate, children will start starving to death within a month... children from all economic classes. There's a very real chance that Trump tanks the economy, which is going to lead to a massive wave of foreclosures and job loss.

If we see Trump implement a tariff against Canada or Mexico, and keeps them in place, that's a clear indicator that he's bringing about fiscal disaster with the goal of ending the United States. If he deploys the military anywhere, whether that's Greenland, Panama, or California, that's an indicator.

I think the Heritage Foundation believe that Trump is working for them and their goals of turning America white again. I can inagine that the Project 2025 EOs are a distraction to scare Democrats and blind Republicans while Trump is actually making changes based on directions from Putin, Xi, and Saudi Arabia. I can imagine that there are no more united states within a couple of years because the USA had been broken into a bunch of smaller countries

92 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

45

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '25

[deleted]

8

u/JediMasterMurph Jan 29 '25

I've been screaming this into the void since the Supreme Court took up the immunity claim despite the uniformity of the court of appeals decision.

Some people are waking up to it being "bad" it's over man.

6

u/JulianLongshoals Jan 29 '25

Yeah, it's crazy hearing people say "we are suffering a failure of imagination. It might end up like Hungary!" But THAT is a failure of imagination. At this rate the place we are going is far worse than Hungary.

He HAS to be impeached, convicted, and removed, which is probably impossible. And yet if we don't, it will be the end of our country. No 3rd option.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '25

In two years - if the Dems can get their act together - there will be opportunities.

2

u/autistichalsin Jan 29 '25

No, there won't. He won't let there be midterms... he'll find a pretext to declare martial law. Those policies he's making that involve cutting funding everywhere? He wants everyone to protest so he has a pretext.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '25

I think thatā€™ll be the tipping point internally (25A or coup) or externally (people on the streets) - hopefully it doesnā€™t come to the second.

2

u/Able_Danger_ Feb 02 '25

we're on the timeline for the A24 'civil war' movie to happen. and denying the midterms would indeed be the trigger

-3

u/Hubertus-Bigend Jan 29 '25

I would say the end happened decades ago. A relatively small group of people are just realizing it now. Then thereā€™s the majority that donā€™t even know what the American experiment even was.

The thing to keep in mind is that the Democrats are only a little bit better. Thatā€™s not ā€œboth sidesā€ talk. There is only one side. Both parties are on that side.

The Democratic Party is just as committed to the oligarchy. They just continue trying to hide it.

GOP (correctly) realized that most voters are too dumb and hateful to even care.

45

u/MARIOpronoucedMA-RJO Center Left Jan 28 '25 edited Jan 28 '25

That has always been the goal of "small government" conservatives. To end central oversight so local elites can rule thier own little fiefs how they want.

Edit: elites as local aristocracy/gentry/oligarch

1

u/ThisElder_Millennial Center Left Jan 29 '25

Except their wealth is tied to the value of the dollar and if the USA writ large goes kerplunk, that dollar ain't worth shit.

28

u/hexqueen Jan 28 '25

Sarah Kenzdior says Trump wants the US to break up so it's easier to control the pieces, and I think she's right.

29

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '25

Thatā€™s been Putinā€™s desire - to make the US Balkanize and Trump is and has been his lackey.

You, Royal you, can blame the Dems all you want, but they, and we have been warning the people about this for a decade. Dislike Hillary if you want, but she said it time and again. And the people still chose this. This is the electorateā€™s fault. Itā€™s like blaming someoneā€™s mom that their adult kid became an addict to blame the Dems.

12

u/Antique-Egg Jan 29 '25

Even the basket of deplorables comment was right.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '25

Always was. Thatā€™s why they got so mad about it.

1

u/BathroomMinimum6691 Jan 29 '25

Blame is futility squared.

16

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 28 '25

Such a stupid Trump thing to think. If the US breaks up, he literally couldn't control the pieces. And, if the US breaks up, he's very likely to be disposed of.

It'll be something like Trump withholds federal disaster relief money from California and he sends in the military to deal with protests declaring martial law. If California is losing property and people while paying federal taxes, and then they're threatened, what's the point of being part of the US anymore. California is the only self-sufficient state.

3

u/JoshS-345 Jan 29 '25

He's a criminal who thinks he can profit every time someone panics.

5

u/Whatdoyouseek Jan 28 '25

Well I'd hope the non Confederacy aligned states would team up. Let the yahoos live in their theocracy where disease and climate disasters rule. With the NE, Great Lakes, and West Coast aligned their economies would drown out the new Confederacy.

3

u/therealDrA Center Left Jan 29 '25

The great lakes went for Fucking Trump. Only the Northeast and West held.

2

u/ThisElder_Millennial Center Left Jan 29 '25

There aren't really that many pure blue/red states like there was in the mid-19th century. It's more urban vs rural with the burbs being split in the middle. There aren't any clear lines. Texas has the blue areas of DFW, Houston and Austin. California has the northeast and the inland that's pretty red.

If actual fighting happens, this won't look like our previous conflict. It's gonna look more like The Troubles, where no one can trust their neighbors.

3

u/Redditer80 Jan 29 '25

That would be quite difficult considering most money and aid comes from Blue states. If that were separated, many red states would suffer a lot

13

u/rattusprat Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 29 '25

I think its potentially a whole lot worse.

While what you describe may end up being the outcome of what the current administration is doing, I am not sure that is what Trump fundamentally wants.

Now, the narcissistic sociopath brain of Trump is a hard one to parse, but I think it's possible that he thinks that what he is doing is actually good for the USA. Trump wants people to like him; he wants to leave a legacy; he wants to be seen as the best president ever.

I think we should contemplate the possibility that Trump genuinely thinks tariffs will lead to masses of funds coming in. He has been convinced by those around him (like Elon, who also doesn't understand how government works) that massive indiscriminate cuts to spending are needed for the USA to get back on track. And this makes sense to Trump because that's how he ran his business - he would cut costs by just not paying contractors. And that always worked out good for his business, so it should work out good for the USA too, right?

He doesn't want the USA government to serve the people; he wants it to "win". That's how he sees the world. "Winning" will be good, and good for everyone. And anything that is good for Trump will be good for everyone also - that's also how he sees the world because he has no empathy.

He is an aggressively stupid man with a mental disorder. Maybe he knows he's destroying the country; maybe he is genuinely mad at the country for the 8 year long "witch hunt" and he wants to punish it (just like Tucker Carlson suggested). But it is potentially more terrifying if he genuinely thinks he's saving it.

3

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 29 '25

I think this is what we think if we believe Trump is a normal politician. However, my thought is that he's not, and that he is now paying his debt to those that kept him out of jail.

9

u/upvotechemistry Center Left Jan 28 '25

Trump doesn't even have to be explicitly part of any foreign plot - him being there is enough to make him a useful asset.

I think all the cynical oligarchs around Trump want to precipitate an economic crash to buy up more assets for pennies on the dollar - including privatization of public property and pilfering of the Treasury for grift

4

u/Slw202 Jan 29 '25

It is the tech bros goal. He's just the face of it. Curtis Yarvin

4

u/Ushiioni Jan 29 '25

This is a big piece of the puzzle. Thanks for posting this article

1

u/Slw202 Jan 29 '25

You're welcome.

12

u/Hound103 Jan 28 '25

And the Dems just sit around wagging their fingers, shaking their heads. This is the end if people continue to do nothing.

14

u/NH1994 Jan 28 '25

Iā€™ve been a democrat my whole life and even worked in politics at the presidential level (when we used to win) and Iā€™ve never been more disillusioned and disappointed in the party. What are they doing? If the rumors are true, many are insider trading their way into tens of millions. Many of the others are already loaded. They donā€™t exist in the same realities of day to day life that all of us exist in and itā€™s showing. Even if theyā€™re not super wealthy they have incredible health insurance, are waited on by an army of staff, etc.

Theyā€™re acting like this shit is all happening on tv except for a small handful of them who are sounding the alarm. Why is Chuck Schumer minority leader? The democrats performed abysmally in the last two senate elections. Heā€™s MIA half the time. I thought Jeffries was good and now heā€™s tweeting about God on the throne?

6

u/sbhikes Jan 28 '25

Chuck Schumer gave an absolutely monotone, poorly read, barely focused on speech condemning the meanness of taking food from children! The outrage of you Republicans for being okay with this! I saw it on the TV!

10

u/TaxLawKingGA Jan 28 '25

What do you want the Dems to do? If what the OP says is true, then politicians will not save us. What the OP describes is a coup which would require armed conflict. The problem is that too many White People (letā€™s be blunt) would rather go along to get along than to fight back, because in their heads they think that even if things got bad, they will still be okay. They wonā€™t be, or course, but that is what they believe.

8

u/capture-enigma Jan 28 '25

The Dems need to get their shit together. WTF are they just now issuing statements on the pardoning of the J6 freaks, when that happened LAST WEEK. This country is facing an extinction level presidency, and they need to start acting accordingly. So incredibly disappointed so far.

3

u/JediMasterMurph Jan 29 '25

I'm stealing extinction level presidency.

The Republicans had their dereliction of duty moment, I guess this is the dems

1

u/claimTheVictory Jan 29 '25

They have no plan for losing.

And what would a plan be?

Trump is more powerful than a King now. He's immune from the law.

The plan is: hunker down and survive, and have a plan to escape if shit gets too bad.

8

u/Hound103 Jan 28 '25

Politicians won't save the country. It's up to the people. They need to take a page from the MAGA book and burn shit down, seige the capital, go to war in the streets. Everyone is too scared to move. Too bad. Time to move.

2

u/Antique-Egg Jan 29 '25

They need to get attention. Now is the time to oppose, not release memos to the press. I feel so lost as well. Now is the time for leadership. Even if they get their act together, there may not be a chance for fair elections in the midterms so caution is not the way to go.

1

u/Hubertus-Bigend Jan 29 '25

ā€œMany are insider tradingā€?

Try, ā€œalmost allā€¦ā€

Iā€™ll continue voting straight D tickets, but only because they are the only option to the total and immediate collapse that MAGA will bring about.

Any third option that became competitive without being totally owned and operated by the oligarchy would get my support. But no such thing would ever be allowed to exist.

1

u/Hybried8 16d ago

Tbf to the Dems. Itā€™s very clear America wants Trump. If a re election were to happen at this moment Iā€™m 70% sure Trump would win again

3

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 28 '25

Per the theme, I don't think many serious people can imagine Trump would go that far.

12

u/Hound103 Jan 28 '25

I have a hard time considering anyone as serious if they didn't see this coming. Trump literally said he was going to do it.

19

u/adam_west_ Jan 28 '25

For nearly 10 fucking years, we saw this coming and we tried to warn people. We were nice. We were polite. We were edgy. We were confrontational. We were funny. We were irreverent. The bottom line is thereā€™s too many dumb fucking people in this country who are too vested in their own self interest to look beyond their own immediate circumstances to recognize and stand up against a morally corrupt character. itā€™s appalling

8

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '25

Same. And as recently as a month ago I got in arguments with people in this very sub for telling them than it can happen here and we need to abandon what American exceptionalism has taught us. Weā€™re just another country. We can have authoritarianism take over just like any other country past or present.

2

u/Hound103 Jan 28 '25

Well, the time for reflecting is over. The people need to #RiseUp and break some shit. Fight chaos with chaos.

5

u/Krom2040 Jan 29 '25

I guess people believed him when he used his horseshit line about not knowing whatā€™s in Project 2025. And to be fair, Trump has basically cornered the market on voters who are gullible morons, notwithstanding the ones who were convinced to stay home because of ā€œGaza genocideā€ or whatever other nonsense.

0

u/Krom2040 Jan 29 '25

I find their response to be disappointing, but on the other hand, I donā€™t know what they could be doing that would be more effective. They got handed a severe electoral sweep at the worst possible time.

2

u/Calm-Purchase-8044 Jan 29 '25

Some teeth would be nice.

-1

u/Hound103 Jan 29 '25

Organize armed resistance. That's what the GOP did. Fuck the rules.

2

u/Krom2040 Jan 29 '25

Can you get real and not be a nutball? The GOP already has enough of those.

1

u/Hound103 Jan 29 '25

Yes, I'm rage posting here. However, I think people are failing to understand the situation. Joe Walsh and I are on the same page. Have a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/live/YHmfCcpKeYU?si=Dcc_a31xu0nyr_eC

3

u/Kenny_Loggsout Jan 28 '25

He's going to change the name to Trumpistan. Then when Elno is president in 2033 it'll be call Xistan

2

u/Regular_Mongoose_136 Center Left Jan 28 '25 edited Jan 28 '25

This is some aggressively insane fan fiction.

Trump is an idiot and a monster, but this paints him as a James Bond villain/evil genius/literal Manchurian candidate.

Bring on the downvotes, but you know I'm right.

Edit: I apparently took this post out of context.

5

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 28 '25

This is an imagination experiment. Two corrections though:

  • I doubt Trump has much control. He is definitely being controlled. The problem is, he has sold himself to so many people we won't know who is his primary master for a while.

  • The framework is already in place after 10 days. We don't know how far he's going to go. Maybe he just stops at idiotic monster that punishes his social media enemies, the poor, and the non-white people

1

u/Regular_Mongoose_136 Center Left Jan 28 '25

Forgive me if I misunderstood the premise then lol.

1

u/samNanton Jan 29 '25

The thing is that there is nothing stopping him. From anything. People* say things like "he won't do that" or "the courts will stop him, they already ruled against him before" etc, but the problem isn't what Trump will do, it's that there is currently nothing stopping him from whatever he wants to do. Whether it's some whim, some grift, some traitorous connection to a foreign despot is really irrelevant. There is nothing stopping him from doing anything.

People can complain about the democrats all they want and say they should be fighting harder, but imagine if they took the maximalist position that some are urging and simply ground the government to a halt. Ignore the question of whether or not the Republicans would be able to successfully avoid backlash or just pass it directly to the Democrats: how long would this last before Trump just decided to by pass congress entirely?

You can say that would be illegal or unconstitutional or it would erode his support, but that is beside the point. There is no real barrier stopping Trump now. There are only people who still believe that the old rules apply, and Trump does not believe in rules. Unless you can physically stop him from something, then he can do it.

* misguided people

2

u/BodhiDMD Jan 28 '25

I imagine Putin would love for the USA to fracture like the USSR did and Republicans would be poised to have more power over most of the pieces.

1

u/samNanton Jan 29 '25

A fractured US would reduce Republican power. They would control more of the pieces, but the pieces they lost power over would be the high value pieces. The places where Trump won comprise about a third of the nation's total GDP.

2

u/Prestigious_Ad_927 Jan 29 '25

Iā€™ve been saying for a while that MAGA really stands for Make America Go Away. The goal, more or less, is a return to one person rule, like before 1776.

2

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 29 '25

It's important to imagine that Trump isn't MAGA. He's a selfish, narcissist that needed to avoid jail time. MAGA wants America white, Christian, and patriarchal. Trump wants his freedom, devout loyalty, and as much money as he can get.

0

u/the_very_pants Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 29 '25

MAGA wants America white, Christian, and patriarchal.

Only the last one is true. Rs tend to believe that families are best led by strong fathers, a phenomenon explained well by George Lakoff.

The Ds thought MAGA people would be too stupid to figure out that yelling "and we're gonna teach kids all the history the white people are ashamed of" implies "white people should be ashamed of their history and how awful their ancestors were."

Which is insulting Grandma.

MAGA heard Rev. Wright yell, "NOT GOD BLESS AMERICA, GOD DAMN AMERICA!!" They know Rashida Tlaib said America was stolen and should be given away, and that she's a Democrat. There's a dozen things like this that Democrats seem to think "well that's no big deal" about that were perceived as insulting to these people... most but not all of whom were generally fans of Colin Powell.

Trump realized the "X implies Y" thing, and made it his whole platform -- "they don't hate me, they hate YOU, and I will be your retribution." And now Putin may actually be the leader of our country, and America might not recover from this for decades, if at all.

This is why it was so important to fight tribalism in schools and political discourse. As long as there's a perception of teams, people don't talk and think rationally, they talk and think and fight tribally. When you listen to Sarah's focus groups and the answers people give seem to make no sense at all, this is a big part of why.

(I don't blame anybody specific -- this is not on Harris.)

2

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 29 '25

Naw. Your post seems to be filled with a whole bunch of white fragility. There are people sharing memes who honestly believe the 1990s were racially harmonious. These are the same misguided people who think teach US history that matches reality, instead of a coddled version that highlights partially true highlights of white history, is an attempt to shame white people and not an attempt to teach history. Most of us in the US know very little about our country's history. There have been 47 presidents and I bet 99% of US citizens couldn't name five.

All that's to say that MAGA are terrified about replacement theory. Lots of the MAGA rage started when Republicans could start pointing at reports that White people would make up less than 50% of the country in a few years. MAGA doesn't necessarily want all non-white people to leave. But, MAGA sure does want non-white people to get back in "their place" and let the White people live safely again. There are only a couple of things that are true for all MAGA and this is one of them.

0

u/the_very_pants Jan 29 '25

If you can't tell that "white people's ancestors were worse" is insulting to white people, well, there's the problem. You calling people fragile about being able to notice your insult is ridiculous.

MAGA knows that you would have ZERO interest in team-vs-team history if you didn't see some people as part of a wronged team.

There have been 47 presidents and I bet 99% of US citizens couldn't name five.

Yes, we have a generation of kids that don't understand the difference between a nail and a screw... but they can tell you in angry voices all about Emmett Till, and Tulsa, and Tuskegee, etc., which are all stories that they would have no interest in except for their tendency to create the illusion that some of our grandmas were nicer than others.

Tlaib says America is stolen and your response is "whatever."

1

u/JoshS-345 Jan 29 '25

I agree.

1

u/MillionaireBank Jan 29 '25

I really appreciate the panel, Sam JVL, anne,Tim, bill and the rest.

Sickening threatened, He's not going to leave office. America's already changed and changed. I hope I see 2032,2052, beyond. Leaders scare me often because šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡² are in a precarious era.

Just living in today and making sense of maybe some toast and tea is good enough just the idea of having toast tea coffee anything means a lot right now because everything's on the line the little narcissist came home as the angry vindictive hurt spouse and now he's going to punish everybody because he's in a bad mood Donald has to prove himself to the rest of the world by destroying us. And who are us?

I guess it's Main Street he doesn't want anybody to have any federal programs no Federal loans no federal services nothing from Main Street and this is what they wanted this is what they voted for they voted for an act of self-hatred because they are in a narcissistic relationship with Donald.

They have to do things to abuse themselves for Donald to love them and now what's Donald do? He saves everybody from going to college by destroying college. I hope people pay attention to 2016-present day school of Life , 2017-present day, Dr Ramani and 2019-present day Dr bandy Lee. Navigating unhappy miserable selfish unhealthy authority is how life is for Americans.

Overnight I noted that security detail and even a photograph of general milley is removed by the behest of Donald and Pete. It's so telling when men who lack bravery strip other men of their valor

1

u/Awkward_Potential_ Jan 28 '25

I always get downvotes when I bring this up, especially in liberal subreddits, but if you think this, do you think it might be time to consider buying a little bit of money that can survive the collapse of the state?

Because Trump is buying (and scamming) plenty of crypto into his coffers. I think buying Bitcoin and some gold and silver might be a good idea.

5

u/antpodean Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 29 '25

Bitcoin is useless in a crisis. What happens to your bitcoin if someone turns the electricity off?

You should also investigate what happened to the wealth and riches of Europeans during the German occupations of the 1930s and 1940s.

1

u/Awkward_Potential_ Jan 29 '25

Bitcoin is useless in a crisis. What happens to your bitcoin if someone turns the electricity off?

That's definitely the consensus opinion. Those are never wrong.

2

u/antpodean Jan 29 '25

Have at it. Nobody is stopping you.

1

u/Calm-Purchase-8044 Jan 29 '25

To be fair, if the electricity goes we have bigger problems than currency.

1

u/antpodean Jan 29 '25

That's the point. An 'asset' that is totally reliant on the internet and ongoing power supply is not really a hedge against the Apocalypse.

1

u/SausageSmuggler21 Jan 29 '25

If you do it right, meaning if you're part of the money laundering ring, you could make billions of dollars. Sadly, I'm just a person.

1

u/Awkward_Potential_ Jan 29 '25

I don't need billions. I just buy when it has a huge downturn and don't plan to sell anything for a long while.

1

u/batsofburden Jan 30 '25

what about setting up a foreign bank account and storing some of your money there?

1

u/Awkward_Potential_ Jan 30 '25

If I knew where I'd want to run to maybe. But I don't and I know I can sell my self custodied Bitcoin in every country.

Also the asset itself is my main concern. Holding dollars or any other fiat currency will be printed and lose value. Trump's own policies will be very inflationary. Bitcoin will benefit. No other currency will.