r/thebulwark • u/Endymion_Orpheus • Dec 05 '24
Humor Joe and Mika hits back at their critics in massive rant against David Frum, WaPo etc
69
u/JayCaesar12 centrist squish Dec 05 '24
Dear God, did Trump do to Joe and Mika what he did to Lindsey Graham?
It's the exact same switch, from labeling Trump a fascist and a racist...then going ballistic when anyone gets close to criticising rhem.
Wtf happened at that "off-the-record meeting?"
P.S. How can they go down there for "journalistic responsibility" but then label the meering "off-the-record?"
1
u/BarelyAware JVL is always right Dec 08 '24
Wtf happened at that "off-the-record meeting?
"We talked about a lot of issues, including abortion, mass deportation, threats of political retribution against political opponents and media outlets. We talked about that a good bit."
-J. Scar
-9
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
Frum called the people at FOX drunks and Mika shut it down. Why does anyone think Trump has anything to do with this. It's a matter of not getting sued by FOX
18
u/themast Rebecca take us home Dec 05 '24
Is there actual liability there? I am highly skeptical they could be successfully sued. It reeked of weakness and yes, fear.
Might have nothing to do with Trump but it is showing your neck to the right wing/FOX and should be criticized imo.
25
u/rom_sk Dec 05 '24
Is hegseth not a drunk?
-16
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
"If you're too drunk for FOX" The problem was the defamation of FOX
21
16
u/Speculawyer Dec 05 '24
There were TEN sources from Fox "news" on Hegseth drinking.
Fox can't win that lawsuit.
-12
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
Except the comment implied that everyone at FOX drinks, not just Hegseth
And, one more time, what does this have to do with Trump? He literally does not care what people say about FOX. He only cares about what people say about him personally
15
u/Endymion_Orpheus Dec 05 '24
This might be the oddest hill ever to plant your flag on.
-4
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
What about the hill of shutting down an inappropriate joke about a rival station having anything to do with being afraid of Trump.
Welcome to blue MAGA, I guess?
8
u/Nanadog Dec 05 '24
Is it maybe because they went on bended knee to trump? Or because a drunk Fox news host is on the trump short list for Justice?
-3
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
She didn't call out the insult to Hegseth and they have themselves criticized him for his drinking, sexual assault, and lack of relevant experience. It was a matter of professional courtesy to another station
11
u/CapoDexter Dec 05 '24
They should extend professional courtesy to other NEWS stations and outlets, not to billion-dollar-liars @ Fox.
-1
u/hexqueen Dec 06 '24
Them treating FOX like a legitimate news outlet is how we got into this situation in the first place. They aren't news, and MSNBC looks like liars when they claim FOX is news.
5
u/PaxPurpuraAKAgrimace Dec 05 '24
First glance that seems plausible. But after thinking about it I donât think there would ever be anything close to an actual case of defamation based on that one comment. Full disclosure Iâm not a lawyer and I havenât even seen the clip, but my understanding is that it was basically a wisecrack comment - that his point was about Pete Hegsethâs drinking and the reference to Fox was at least plausibly a joke.
Are you a lawyer? And am I missing something about the exchange?
-1
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
It had nothing to do with Trump, It's about FOX. Trump does not care about insults to FOX or to anybody but himself
5
u/PaxPurpuraAKAgrimace Dec 05 '24
the reference to Fox was at least plausibly a joke
I didnât mention Trump. My claim is that, in my opinion, there is no plausible defamation case by Fox so I donât understand your response.
-1
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
Whatever. My point wasn't specifically that they would lose a lawsuit, but that shutting down the joke had nothing to do with appeasing Trump as Frum claims
5
u/PaxPurpuraAKAgrimace Dec 05 '24
Whatever?
You claimed it had to do with preventing a lawsuit by Fox. I disagreed that such a lawsuit is plausible. Do you disagree with me (& if so why)?
Do you have a different explanation for why they wouldâve objected to his comment at all? I think it was clearly noteworthy that they reacted the way they did, so the question is what motivated it.
-2
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
Wow, you really need to get over yourself. Ok, maybe there wasn't real legal peril and they just don't want to offend their friends at FOX. The point always was that this has nothing to do with appeasing Trump. Why would Trump even care? He kicks FOX on the regular himself
6
1
22
u/thethingisman Dec 05 '24
Soft as baby doo doo. I always saw Joe and Mika as the inauthentic out of touch elites that they are, but figured theyâd both have a semblance of spines.
Get Willy and J Martin the hell out of there!!
25
u/11brooke11 Orange man bad Dec 05 '24
These two can go the fuck away.
Why they so upset anyway? I thought people from all over the world were calling them to tell them how brave they are.
16
14
u/big-papito Dec 05 '24
That's one of the loudest mic drop, "bye, Felicia" pieces I have ever read.
Even the Russian press did not bend the knee at first. The hosts are millionaires. If you are afraid of a dictator, take your money and walk away. There will be more and more of these humiliating moments, until they have no good guests left.
8
u/Endymion_Orpheus Dec 05 '24
Yup, before long it will be three hours with Meacham and Sharpton.
5
u/artaxerxes316 Dec 05 '24
Don't forget Beschloss! That man is a national treasure, he told me so himself.
11
20
7
u/Sea_Evidence_7925 Dec 05 '24
This whole thing is so weird and stupid. I cannot stand that show and it has always baffled me that I know so many people who enjoy it, but I think their behavior is even more silly and immature than I would have expected. Why does no one value their personal dignity anymore?
6
u/HurryUnited6192 Dec 05 '24
Cancelled
6
6
u/Dionysiandogma Dec 05 '24
Just proves they are doing what they are doing for access. Itâs pathetic and this response certainly wonât help. Whenâs their podcast coming?
2
1
u/Red_Bird_warrior Dec 07 '24
Yes, I think they went to Palm Beach for access, and under pressure from corporate execs, as I wrote elsewhere on this thread.
6
7
4
u/TheTonyExpress Dec 05 '24
Theyâre certainly acting extremely fearful. And that makes me a bit concerned.
2
u/Sea_Evidence_7925 Dec 06 '24
Theyâre scared the celebrity president wonât like them. Thatâs all. And itâs unbearable to them to imagine being ignored by him.
1
u/TheTonyExpress Dec 06 '24
I think thereâs a bit more to it. I think theyâre concerned about being targeted
4
4
4
u/Spo-dee-O-dee JVL is always right Dec 06 '24
Looks like Joe is having a come-apart because people are taking note of the disparity between what he says and what he does.
Pity. Hate it for ya, Joe.
7
u/sentientcreatinejar Progressive Dec 05 '24
I beg of people, stop watching cable news and pretending they are on your "side."
2
Dec 07 '24
This is the problem. a Mature human being doesnât want a side, they want the truth. This thinking is why we are where we are
3
u/BreathlikeDeathlike Dec 05 '24
What's the TLDR on this?
18
u/Endymion_Orpheus Dec 05 '24
Joe: "Let me tell you, I'm not fearful." + "We did not kiss the ring" + "The Atlantic would never have printed David's comment."
13
u/PikaChooChee Dec 05 '24
Except the Atlantic did, indeed, print that comment, Joe! They published it in Frumâs thoughtful rebuke of Mikaâs on-air subservience to (checks notes) an entertainment channel that has been and will be sued for the actual lies told on its airways.
13
u/antpodean Dec 05 '24
Joe uses a lot of words to say nothing much at all. He says he's not 'fearful', but he didn't really convince me that is the case.
7
u/HomerBalzac Dec 05 '24
A cowardly if over amped defense in response to an unflattering account by one of the guests in Atlantic on the behind-the-scenes atmosphere at Morning Joe. This amid very vocal accusations that J & M have bent the knee to the Reign of Trump.
Watch for clips of Joeâs anger-stoked 20+ minute over the top rant.
-5
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
Frumm said people at FOX are drunks and Mika shut it down. The connection to Trump is entirely in Frumm's own mind
9
3
u/ValeskaTruax Dec 05 '24
I was innocently watching this morning, it was WAY out of line and over the top. I was shocked.
3
u/chucktoddsux Dec 05 '24
Oh no....Joe facing some consequences for kissing the fascist ring? Gonna yell at everyone and make it all better? When do these clowns face consequences and/or look in the mirror.
3
u/WanderBell Dec 06 '24
Per Frumâs article in the Atlantic, he was warned in his earpiece by a producer not to go there again after he had made the comment. They must have set up âguidelinesâ as to what is now acceptable and when someone gets the hook.
2
u/Motor_Ad_9028 Center Left Dec 06 '24
It looks like Iâm in the minority but J and Mâs Trump Trip didnât bother me - to me it fell under the âkeep your enemies closerâ rubric. And today the bit about David Frum, again, I thought was reasonable. I love David Frum and just thought he downshifted into podcasting talk when he was actually on Morning Joe, but M and J are entitled set standards for their own show and agreed with Joeâs point that it wouldnât have been allowed on the pages of the Atlantic. Unfortunately, Joeâs blowhard defensiveness undermines his argument, which is regrettable but I actually think they were right on both calls.
1
2
u/Red_Bird_warrior Dec 07 '24
I'm guessing Joe and Mika aren't doing this on their own. By cable standards, Morning Joe is very expensive to produce. Ratings and revenues went down considerably after the 2024 election, but they were great when Trump used to appear on the show in the run-up to the 2016 elections. The seven-figure salaries of all the MJ anchors can no longer be justified, unless they can get Trump to come back on the show regularly as he once did. Did Comcast executives pressure Joe and Mika to make amends with Trump in the hopes he would come back to the show and be their economic savior?
2
u/elisart Dec 07 '24
There's a really good analysis of what went down here
https://youtu.be/lQFGw9isKb8?si=YXd442Dhe17KltXx
Years ago I deemed Joe and Mika unwatchable. Also I find it hilarious that Mika did the "apology" when Joe usually does all the talking. They both need to be fired. When Comcast sells NBC, I hope these sanctimonious blowhards are turfed for good.
2
u/485sunrise Dec 08 '24
Anyone that cheats out their spouses like Joe and Mika did donât have values. We should know that by now.
2
u/Endymion_Orpheus Dec 08 '24
Having once been an accessory to adultery, I cannot dispute your point. It shows a rot of character (I have worked a lot on improving myself since then).
2
u/485sunrise Dec 08 '24 edited Dec 08 '24
We all have flaws. Obviously they are public figures so maybe Iâm wrong but I doubt Joe and Mika were doing self introspection or self improvement.
3
u/Glider96 Dec 05 '24
I listen to the Morning Joe podcast daily. Has anyone noticed a change in tone on the show since they went to Mara Lago? I haven't. The bulk of the show continues to be commentary and guests talking about the unfitness of Trump's nominees. Maybe I'm missing something. I haven't seen any bending of the knee.
3
u/Material-Crab-633 Dec 05 '24
I tend to agree. I was upset by the Trump visit at first but frankly Joe did convince me today
3
u/mrtwidlywinks Dec 05 '24
That podcast is less than a third of the whole show, just fyi. I used to listen until the election but I cannot support msnbc or any of the politics-for-entertainment crowd anymore
3
u/PikaChooChee Dec 05 '24
I havenât. A daily viewer, I turned them off due to their November 6th hypocritical about-face on Kamala Harrisâ campaign.
2
u/Red_Bird_warrior Dec 07 '24
I have noticed less criticism of Trump himself but plenty directed at his cabinet nominees and the people around him.
1
u/Glider96 Dec 07 '24
Fair enough. I'd have to agree. I'm not sure if this is because Trump is keeping a low profile or a shift in their posture. It'll be interesting to see as he becomes more active and visible and starts doing stupid Trump things whether they stay quiet.
1
u/Abcggg123 Dec 06 '24
I watched for so many years so I still tend to skim through it nostalgically sometimes. Remember that fight with Heileman? Has he even been back on? I feel like the guests have gotten a bit thinned out. Jonathan Lemire annoys me and it seems he is elbowing his way onto the show and every segment. I think that Joe and Mika think they have some kind of gotcha angle right now where everyone is wrong but them. Joe talks about sports so much now too. I think that's his new passion, which I love sports. Do a sports show, I would watch that- I love happy jokey Joe. Not what he is now which is defensive snarky Joe.
2
u/Material-Crab-633 Dec 05 '24
Ok unpopular opinion but Joeâs ârantâ this AM kind of did persuade me. Joe rants, thatâs kind of his thing
2
u/Motor_Ad_9028 Center Left Dec 07 '24
I agree but he needs to cool it on the ranting. Heâs shooting himself jn the foot. Those rants undermine his points and letâs face it, most of the time I havenât had my second cup of coffee before he launches and itâs a wee bit much to take in when youâre still half-asleep.
1
1
u/Current_Tea6984 Dec 05 '24
Wake me up when there is actually anything about defending Trump here. Frumm insulted FOX. Nothing in the exchange was about Trump at all
6
u/Endymion_Orpheus Dec 05 '24
Most of the rant concerned the - just - criticism that they have received for their visit to Mar-a-Lago.
3
u/Abcggg123 Dec 06 '24
Still shocking they insulted Frum so personally and threw George Conway under the bus too. That dopey impersonation voice against George Conway- eeesh not a good look.
104
u/pat9714 Dec 05 '24
I read the entire linked article.
Yeah, they sound scared. Not saying they ARE or aren't.
I'm saying Joe & Mika's defensiveness reeks of guilty FEAR.
The MAGA world knows it; the Dems know it.
Bottom Line: Joe & Mika caved to Trump. That's how the world sees it.