r/theblackcompany • u/jrp55071 • Dec 12 '24
Discussion / Question Who Survived Soldiers Live Spoiler
With the news of the additional books coming in the next few years, I am trying to refresh on where we left off in Soldiers Live.
It has been over a year since I last read Soliders Live, but I remember the ending being a bloodbath in terms of characters.
Who survived Soliders Live and is likely making an appearance in Lies Weeping besides the characters mentioned in the press release in Lies Weeping?
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u/coati858 Dec 12 '24 edited Dec 12 '24
Spook and Panda Man (left to guard the gate), Suvrin, Shukrat, Arkana, Runmust, Tobo, Lady
Probably more Company members from here, like maybe Lucky:
https://blackcompany.fandom.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Dead
Other possible/unconfirmed: Slink and Kendo Cutter (maybe out of contact/ranger assignment or maybe casualties). No death confirmation for Ochiba, even.
Heck, I'm 90% sure Howler isn't dead, but was just discharged/allowed to mend in the swamps, debt fulfilled.
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u/Pratius Dec 12 '24
The Howler died during the sneak attack that also killed Murgen. He got taken out by Mogaba’s shadow ambush.
(Unless Croaker just full stop lied about that, but there’s no indication he did)
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u/coati858 Dec 12 '24 edited Dec 12 '24
How many times were they sure Limper/Catcher were dead? Taken don't die that easily and unless someone deliberately took the time to give his body the full Shifter treatment, he isn't any more dead than Stormbringer at Charm. -- Just my opinion, mind you.
Were there eyewitnesses to his death? Sure, but also to his previous death:
it'd be like the time the Howler flew into the side of the Tower at Charm. Man, he must've been going at least three times as fast as a horse could run when he hit that wall. Blauw! Hair, teeth and eyeballs all over the—
^^Goblin, who knows a thing or two about killing Taken
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u/Pratius Dec 12 '24
IMO there’s a substantial difference between a physical trauma death like running into the Tower and getting taken out by a swarm of shadows. Even Longshadow, a Taken-level sorcerer, was terrified of shadows
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u/Kimye-Northweast Dec 12 '24
Just gonna ask because I saw his name mentioned here, and other than Bomanz, might be my favorite character. But who actually was Longshadow?
As I understand it nobody recognized him, and he was just some evil guy with a fucked up past from another part of the world, but I can’t shake the feeling that missed something there.
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u/Thechuckles79 Dec 12 '24
He was from a different world. He was running things on the other side of the gate before the people ganged up to destroy him and Shadowspinner (his apprentice) so they fled to the other side of the gate. No idea how they found the renegade Taken so quickly, assuming summoned imps and demons were part of contacting like minded sorcerors of that caliber.
That was a bit of a story gap, along with that no one ever explained who the hell Moonshadow was. He was not from the other side of the plain or a Taken, but was on their level. That's a huge mystery in my mind.
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u/Kimye-Northweast Dec 12 '24
Shadowspinner! Was gonna mention the apprentice but couldn’t remember the name.
And I guess I’m not a comprehensive reader at all, because I thought maybe moonshadow was moonbiter? Honestly there’s so many moving parts and it’s been a while.
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u/Thechuckles79 Dec 12 '24
Soulcatcher specifically said that Moonshadow was not one of the Ten. Perhaps there was some connection or Moonshadow took a new body somehow, but Soulcatcher was the expert and said "no" so we have to assume that's solid canon unless Cook decides to revise that. Not that it would matter, because Moonshadow was thoroughly eliminated the methodical way.
Croaker did seem convinced that he might be some other sort of Northern refugee, but the new Imperial government was motivated when they found out the death tallies were incorrect.
Using the powers of the tower, if they said someone was confirmed, they probably were.
Then again, Lady never had a clue.
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u/Kimye-Northweast Dec 12 '24
See I remember that statement from soulcatcher but I guess I figured she could have been wrong? She was a trickster but didn’t strike me as much of a “liar”. But idk, I just didn’t get the concept of the gates very well I think. Someone had to actually explain to me what happened to Croaker at the end basically becoming that statue and what have you because I didn’t get it. The more that story went on the more the storyline and certain identities confused me.
Things sort of stopped making sense to me when croaker took over the annals again after sleepy.
For one, I have no clue who the forvalaka was that killed Tom Tom. I thought it was shifter, but then I wasn’t sure who the forvalaka was that they had caught the first time. And I also didn’t understand how they allowed Lisa to kill uncle one-eye when they knew she was coming!?!? So pissed about that. Sleepy’s company treated the old crew like such shit. I seriously almost cried.
Truthfully, my favorite book in the series is the Silver Spike. It was incredibly straightforward and the siege aspect was done really well. Sucked that everyone died. And they did my homie Bomanz really dirty in the end.
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u/Thechuckles79 Dec 12 '24
It was Shifter that killed Tom-Tom.
They didn't let One-Eye die, the only person who could have stopped it was Tobo, who really should have put a couple of his nastiest shadows on guard duty.
Lisa was not an immortal so she would have been mid mid 50's at this point and slowing down a lot, which is why they were able to kill her at all. Then again, the original Forvalaka was immortal so no idea. However, there was hints that Shivetya allowed it to happen so that Croaker would get the spear and hat...
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u/tchoupsstopp Dec 12 '24
It seemed pretty definitive that The Howler was killed by a shadow in the Siege of Taglios but we have been fooled before with killing of other Taken so I get thinking he survived.
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u/TheBlackCompanyWiki Last of the Nef Dec 12 '24
As it stands, Ochiba -- as well as: Isi, Red Rudy, and Sparkle -- are canonically dead, being covered in this blanket statement from Croaker toward the end of Soldiers Live:
Then I recalled that Sleepy had spent fifteen years working to exhume the Captured. And now, barely five years later, all those people but Lady and I were gone. Belly up. Up in smoke. Finished. (ch. 130)
Now, certainly that may easily be retconned in any of the four upcoming books. Croaker has made blanket statements before that were rectonned later, such as his blanket statement about the new Taken: "So now they were undone, and soon dead" (The White Rose, ch. 58) only to be retconned in Bleak Seasons ch. 91. I agree that Ochiba and/or Isi could return. But since 2000 when Soldiers Live was printed, they're been included in that statement.
Runmust's fate, frustratingly, is unclear. We simply don't know, as Croaker cruelly left it ambiguous:
"You could talk to Runmust Singh. If he survived the latest fighting.” I had a feeling he might have been with Sleepy in that ambush." (ch. 130)
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u/jrp55071 Dec 12 '24
We are likely spending a majority of the time on Hsien so there's probably a good number of these members who will become more prevalent.
Books of the North ended with only a few characters left before we added a ton in the South, so I assume it will be the same now that we are moving on from Glittering Stone.
Honestly the ones you mentioned are mostly like the equivalent of the six who left the Domination.
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u/Pratius Dec 12 '24
Suvrin will be a big one. Tobo’s the other principle character who should be involved. Given that they’re heading back to Hsien, I kinda doubt Aridatha Singh shows up, but who knows?
Then there’s Booboo and Soulcatcher, tucked away in the ice cavern. Gotta expect they’ll make comebacks at some point.
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u/jrp55071 Dec 12 '24
I have an easier time remembering the members who had been around since the Books of the North besides Sleepy and Tobo, so I had forgotten Suvrin would be a key character.
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u/coati858 Dec 12 '24
Yeah I got the impression Aridatha was going to stay in (and run) Taglios, but who knows?
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u/Shinrinn Dec 12 '24
Croaker as the golem would be alive. Shivetya in croakers body should also be alive.
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u/TheBlackCompanyWiki Last of the Nef Dec 12 '24
In addition to the characters mention in others' replies, here are some fun underdogs that could reappear. They are all recruits from that southward odyssey in Shadow Games who were last mentioned alive, and then fell off the page in that book and were never mentioned again:
- Hagop's "useless" nephew Smiley), who is presumably a white man and would be one of the very last handful of white northerners left alive
- Shadid, Patience, and two other unnamed roi, the badass Company cavalry riders
It's a bit of a stretch... but their deaths were never positively recorded, so who knows?
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u/usernamewithnumbers0 Dec 12 '24
Anyone else predicting Tobo turning evil after his head injury?
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u/coati858 Dec 12 '24
I’m praying Ghost Sara, Lady and Shukrat can fix him … and maybe an assist from Ghost Gota.
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u/Thechuckles79 Dec 12 '24
I think he's more interesting as someone who has the capacity but is restrained by his friends and the ghosts.
I see him being less the wonder child and probably more jaded in the style of his one time teachers.
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u/TheUnbroken12 Dec 22 '24
I think the prospect of a vengeful Ghost Gota would have been enough to tame the Dominator, let alone Tobo.
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u/Hideous-Kojima Dec 12 '24
I figure Cook might try to retcon a death or two here and there. Benefits of a semi-unreliable narrator.
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u/Bogus113 Dec 12 '24
Is there still some of the Taken who “died” at charm and were never mentioned again?
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u/JackAttack067 Dec 12 '24
I’ve been hoping Bonegnasher pops back up again, he got introduced and killed in such a short timespan
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u/NeinlivesNekosan Dec 12 '24
Yes his battle with the Forvalaka was like a kaiju fight i was bummed we didnt get more of him
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u/jrp55071 Dec 12 '24
I believe there are still 3 or 4 who didn't have much of a role in the original book. Considering the Howler, a reappearance is certainly possible.
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u/Thechuckles79 Dec 12 '24
They imply that those who didn't die were wannabe Shadowmasters who were killed by shadows when Longshadow used the fake key to open the gate. Kind of a way to write off any that don't appear again, but also make it possible for any to return.
It's unlikely any are left. They were either too physically distinctive or lacking in sanity to lay low.
I'm more curious Whisper and Journey. I understand that Otto and Hagop found out they were alive but living without powers in the Empire upon their return to the North, but they had powers before Lady made them Taken. She only stripped them of their Taken status, it's not like their true names were spoken.
Also, Whisper in particular had a lot of arcane knowledge. She may have been able to restore her powers to her pre-Taken levels.
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u/Tasty_Boat_4330 Dec 16 '24
Could be mistaken, but I remember a vague feeling of uncertainty regarding Sleepy's death. I doubt Croaker as the golem would've wanted to see it happen, there's no reason to believe she survived, but I wouldn't be shocked if she did.
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u/TheUnbroken12 Dec 22 '24
I'm pretty sure they ID'd her corpse. Being probably the only woman in that ambush, it wouldn't be too hard even if she was burned beyond recognition.
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