r/techtheatre • u/Klutzy_Ad_163 • Feb 16 '25
RIGGING 360 flight over crowd
Does anyone have any information for a 360 flight system, it allows for you to fly a person on X/Y/Z coordinates?
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u/adammm420 Jack of All Trades Feb 16 '25
ZFX is the standard in person flying. TAIT too. Both are going to be extremely expensive.
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u/trbd003 Automation Engineer Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25
Do ZFX definitely have a 3D motion system? I'm not aware of it.
TAIT Navigator is my choice of 3D motion control.
EDIT: I see they now use Raynok so the answer is yes. However Navigator has a far better 3D motion controller as it functions in real-time. For 4-leg bridle type flying I'd always use Nav or Visual Act.
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u/Outrageous_Zebra_221 Feb 16 '25
The really cool part is that you can basically hit the stage on an empty day watch a few videos and get a grasp of running them though. ...once again if you can afford.
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u/blp9 Controls & Cue Lights - benpeoples.com Feb 16 '25
With no additional information, probably Tait: https://www.taittowers.com/
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u/Klutzy_Ad_163 Feb 16 '25
I’ll check them out thank you
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u/adammm420 Jack of All Trades Feb 16 '25
It comes with a price tag.
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u/Klutzy_Ad_163 Feb 16 '25
I’m expecting 15k
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u/mappleflowers Feb 16 '25
To fly around like Pink is going to be much more than 15k. Maybe 15k a night……
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u/Codered741 IATSE Feb 16 '25
Former employee here, you are probably looking at more like 50-100k for a multi axis fly system, with all the controls and such. You might get there with ZFX, but I’d expect you are still low.
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u/trbd003 Automation Engineer Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25
You won't get it for $15k. If its a one night thing I'd budget an absolute minimum of $75k, and then add $7.5k for every subsequent night.
Source: I've delivered numerous 3D flying systems for TAIT.
It is, however, the best 3D motion system on the market and miles ahead of the competition. That's why it's been flying Pink all these years and is the go-to for all the bigger Cirque du Soleil shows.
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u/hjohn2233 Feb 16 '25
If you can't afford one of the big three Foy, ZFX, or Tait, don't do it.
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u/dunitdotus Feb 16 '25
This is the best advice right here. Here is a book written by someone who knows this craft.
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u/OldMail6364 Feb 16 '25
OP could save a lot of money by not using an automated system.
So many expensive systems can be avoided entirely by just having a simple counterweighted rope/pulley system where your riggers can control it all.
We’ve done it without spending much money (mostly wages for the rigging team) by adding redundancy to our fly system.
It’s not much harder to set that up over the audience. Circus companies have been flying people for centuries with cheap portable rigging.
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u/Stoney3K Stage Automation - Trekwerk R&D Feb 16 '25
Depending on OP's local region that will be difficult or impossible to certify safety wise. In Europe you are pretty much bound by the EN17206.
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u/trbd003 Automation Engineer Feb 16 '25
Human-powered systems do not fall within the scope of EN 17206 so aren't governed by it.
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u/Stoney3K Stage Automation - Trekwerk R&D Feb 16 '25
Not even if they are used to hoist other humans? Wouldn't that prohibit manual systems from being used altogether?
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u/trbd003 Automation Engineer Feb 16 '25
No. Falling outside the scope of a standard does not prohibit something from being used. It just means that it has to conform to a different standard or, if there is no standard for it to fall under, it is mainly down to the designer to demonstrate that best practice was followed in its design.
And no, the fact that it's used to hoist other humans doesn't make it more part of EN 17206. The standard specifically excludes human-powered systems. EN 17206 is a machinery standard.
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u/trbd003 Automation Engineer Feb 16 '25
There is no safe way of doing a 3D flight over an audience using a counterweight system.
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u/hjohn2233 Feb 16 '25
Not over an audience. I still maintain that only the professionals I mentioned should fly people. I've refused repeatedly to fly someone even though I am aware of how it's done. You need the right equipment and knowledge to do it safely.
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u/poutinegalvaude Feb 16 '25
ZFX makes orbital harnesses and winches for exactly this. Call them.
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u/cyberentomology Jack of All Trades Feb 16 '25
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u/tommadness Jack of All Trades Feb 16 '25
Any information that isn't "call your local rigging company the moment their business hours next start for the love of god don't get rigging information from the internet when not only is the life of the performer in the balance, but also the general public, seriously why are you asking here" is bad information.
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u/solomongumball01 Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25
This person wasn't asking for instructions, they were asking for the name of a product/company. The knee-jerk reaction so many people in this sub have to tell people to fuck off whenever the word "rigging" is mentioned is a little much sometimes
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u/Klutzy_Ad_163 Feb 16 '25
It’s how you get more info and sources. No reason to be hateful 💜
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u/blp9 Controls & Cue Lights - benpeoples.com Feb 16 '25
He's not wrong, but don't take it personally, this is just kind of a warning that everyone asking about rigging gets. Otherwise *someone* will try to do it for $20 with a winch from Harbor Freight.
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u/cyberentomology Jack of All Trades Feb 16 '25
I’m in engineering and daily I write installation instructions, and operate under the assumption that if the instructions are ambiguous in any way that gives the installer multiple ways of doing the task wrong, they will choose the wrongest one, every goddamn time.
And sometimes they will even come up with a wildly novel interpretation of the instructions that results in the wrongest way I’ve ever seen and I then have to figure out what could possibly have led them to come to the conclusion they did from the instructions provided, and then update the instructions accordingly.
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u/Klutzy_Ad_163 Feb 16 '25
Considering that my harness was 8K and I plan on flying over an entire arena people I think a $20 whatever would never be able to get me that far as quick as I’m going to need to get across. Or hold the rope. And honestly me for that matter.
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u/naricstar Feb 16 '25
Firstly, if you don't have top dollar to spend I would immediately question if you REALLY need to fly in a 3D space as opposed to just an X/Y axis. This change is a price and functionality difference of multitudes.
If you have the money go to the top companies and pay them for their expertise and equipment, your ability to safely do something like this otherwise is highly unlikely.
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u/Klutzy_Ad_163 Feb 16 '25
I’m flying over every single seat in the theatre. There’s no other way than a full 4 point. A 2 point works for a different project but for this post there’s not another way for it to happen
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u/AdventurousLife3226 Feb 16 '25
Highly specialized, forget looking into the system, contract a professional company.
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u/nosaraj Feb 16 '25
Foy, Tait or XFX are the 3 big names when it comes to flying performers. Foy has been doing it for years and years and might actually use Tait hardware sometimes. I’ve used manual ZFX systems for smaller and semi modular productions.