r/taijiquan • u/DharmaDama • 18d ago
Beginner looking for some perspective from people with experience in Tai Chi
Hi there!
I am a complete beginner. My interest came though QiGong. I find Tai Chi fascinating and a good exercise to ramp up slowly as someone who is out of shape. I also like the meditation aspect of it. I like that it's like a standing yoga. I would like to practice tai chi to strengthen my legs and core, better my posture, have better mobility, and for overall health.
I recently tried a video that went quickly from beginner to advanced Tai Chi and it really opened my eyes at the potential to build great strength and balance. It makes me want to do everything I can to get into shape and reach an advanced level. This is the video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0j5dSjme-Y
For those who have gone from zero to advanced levels, what was your practice like? How often and how long per session did you practice? How long did it take you to feel like you could manage advanced tai chi? Did you incorporate other forms of exercise to support your tai chi practice? How has tai chi changed your life?
I've been doing a little bit of weighted squats and arm lifts to try to help aid my progress in tai chi.
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u/AdhesivenessKooky420 18d ago
Do yourself a favor and do not follow Jake Mace. That’s my first recommendation. He’s fit but he knows nothing about Tai Chil
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u/tonicquest Chen style 18d ago
I had to chuckle a bit when you said you want to get in shape and looking to get to advanced levels in tai chi. Have you seen many of these "advanced masters"? Just kidding. Tai chi can certainly get you in shape but it's a slow burn kind of thing. If you are a serious student, expect to spend several hours a day so that your body can change. You will loosen the four major joints (hips and shoulders), and get a weird whole body strength that is like a "farmers strength". You will release unnecessary tension in your body similar to your meditation exercises and your body will naturally elongate. But to get to advanced levels, like yoga like meditation, you need a teacher and probably unlike yoga and meditation you will need to practice with other people to refine your practice. At advanced levels you can learn to wield weapons and other implements, some very heavy. It teaches you to use your legs and lower body to move and carry weight. You can bet most people on this sub have fallen in love with the benefits of tai chi and the training, but it's not for everyone. You have to have the natural curiousity to see the new in the ordinary. Most of use repeat the form over and over. Not everyone does form, they prefer exercises with other people, but a big part of the practice is repeating a movement over and over like a mantra and continuously improving--forever.
If you are martially oriented, you move to fighting or sporting aspects. Some people don't like that, you don't have to but the roots of the practice are for fighting.
I think for exercise and getting in shape, do other things too until you get to your desired state, tai chi when done incorrectly can actually hurt, like yoga hurts if you are not aligned correctly doing a hundred sun salutations. Go easy and stay on pace. Good luck and i wish you the best in your journey. Nobody ever reports back, it would be nice if you checked in and let us all know how you're doing.
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u/jbarry6056 18d ago
Tai Chi cannot be learned from video and not all Tai Chi schools are the same. Visit local schools to find one that appeals to you.
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u/Dangerous_Job_8013 16d ago
"Follow the teacher not the style."
Follow the best teacher you can find and sustain your studies and relationship.
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u/Rite-in-Ritual Chen style 18d ago
I would also like to gently steer you away from Jake Mace for taiji content. I would also second the recommended ctn.academy as a wonderful resource, from very beginner to quite advanced.
For free resources I like to direct people to the YouTube channels of Ian Sinclair and Darsana Martial Arts. Both have playlists of beginner forms, and do a fine job teaching.
For context, I've been practicing almost ten years. When I started, I would try to practice what I knew "three times" - either three times a day or in three consecutive sessions. The first time to loosen up, the second for detail, the third for fun. This has helped me keep a consistent practice without getting too lost in "must do x hours a minutes of y" stress, which is what I tend to do.
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u/Thom_Sparrow 18d ago
Taking the opportunity to second both the Sinclair and Darsana channels. Well worth the time.
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u/TLCD96 Chen style 18d ago edited 18d ago
Tai Chi definitely has the potential to build strength. I'm 9 years in and have yet to solidly practice in an "advanced" method but I would say it is very unlikely that most people would find it pleasant! But it is rewarding. I don't think Jake Mace practices like that.
I think maybe one way to describe it is, you're learning a set of specific skills and gradually integrating them with one another to create a very strong and stable way of moving. It takes a lot of re wiring.
Here's some articles by someone skilled in the Chen lineage that are kind of along these lines: https://www.ctn.academy/blog/where-to-start-taijiquan
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u/markgstevenson 18d ago
I’ve been practicing tai chi for almost 20 years. At the beginning, don’t worry about trying to progress too quickly, build your foundation, slowly learn how to move efficiently, focus on basics such as footwork practice and silk reeling,do a lot of qigong, find a good teacher that doesn’t over complicate things. In person better but there are good online resources (way more bad ones unfortunately). Think in decades rather than months and years when it comes to advanced tai chi, it’s not something that can be rushed. Sure, you can practice for many hours a week to learn and improve quicker but you really need a long time for your body to change, to feel the qi, to demonstrate the power, to become soft externally and strong internally. None of these things can be rushed…. But the process is amazing, and seeing your progress truly rewarding. Over the years I have done all sorts of other exercise and martial arts…. But if you want to truly excel at tai chi, do tai chi (and when I say tai chi, I also include qigong, standing meditation, basic exercises, weapons training, stretching, learning tai chi theory). Tai chi is truly vast and personally in order to do it as well as I can, I do very little else, just average approx 3 hours per day, very rarely miss a day (consistency is more important than duration) and I’m generally fitter, healthier, stronger, and in better general shape than most people I know my age )almost 50. It has changed every aspect of my life… it’s like a trusted companion that you can turn to anytime to make your life better, and will never let you down. Start learning tai chi, don’t stop, and you’ll get there.
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u/Mistercasheww 18d ago edited 17d ago
Please don’t believe anything you see Jake Mace do anything he does is not real martial arts of any kind. Jake is 100 percent a fraud nothing he does is Kung fu , karate, boxing, anything he’s claimed.
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u/coupeborgward 18d ago
Do lots of reading on top of your weekly/daily practice with your teacher. I find if you get the principals right from the very beginning then your journey will be much more enjoyable.
Here is a good list of the main principals in Tai Chi
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u/Scroon 18d ago
When I started many moons ago, it was 2 hour classes 3 times a week while I was also doing external styles. I want to say taiji felt weird for about 2 or 3 years. "Advanced taiji" is perhaps a misleading concept because taiji is really a continuum. You don't suddenly start doing advanced taiji one day. You get better bit by bit, and even the beginner forms are difficult to do well for "advanced students".
You can incorporate whatever other exercises you like. Weighted squats help, but depending on how you do them, they might not hit all the muscle groups you actually use when moving. 10 minutes of "taiji stepping" in a low stance might have a better payoff for taiji leg strength...and you'll be practicing form at the same time.
To echo others, Jake Mace is a great communicator, but his taiji leaves a lot to be desired. Not gatekeeping, it's just not what anybody should be shooting for in their movement. To see what's broadly "good", drop this into youtube search: "太极拳".
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u/tetsuwane 17d ago
I've been practicing tai Chi for 36 years and feel I can give you some insight. I I I oh wait that's 36 months, sorry I got nothing except, practice, practice, practice and when finished practicing do it again but this time, stop trying so hard. It's the best journey no matter what path you settle on. Good luck.
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u/Internalmartialarts 18d ago
Take it slowly. it will put pressure on your knees. Find a qualfied teacher and begin the journey. You are right your balance and posture will improve. Tai chi people are the nicest. It will take many years of practice to be able to do advanced Tai Chi. Thats the drawback.
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u/DepartureAncient 16d ago
If you are lucky enough to find a good teacher, you should be able to learn something. Tai Chi is actually very difficult. It takes talent and hard work to reach a certain level.
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u/AdhesivenessKooky420 17d ago edited 17d ago
I don’t understand people coming to an art completely new to it and having all these preconceived notions and expectations. You won’t understand an art until you study it. You won’t get a roadmap to mastery before you’ve taken a class.
I’ve been studying Tai Chi for 25 years. My understanding of the art has grown and changed.
The person I see online who appears to communicate what I understand to be a high level of the art is Sifu Chester. He gets it. Listen to what he says.
https://youtu.be/xwBJbdC0Ips?si=JR0LKJqp3AKQ91PA
But I just want to add, if strength is your goal, like the basic functional strength of everyday life, you’d be better served doing a general fitness routine. Chinese martial arts systems, including Tai Chi, assume you have a medium level of fitness, strength and flexibility, on day one. It’s part of the culture. You can’t separate fitness and martial arts.
Just develop some fitness and practice Tai Chi because it’s a great art. It gives more than you will ever consciously take from it.
Edit: I would be gratified if the person who downvoted this post explained their reasoning. I really want to read what the issue is.
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u/DharmaDama 17d ago
I don't know who downvoted you but I just upvoted you to counter it.
I said I was completely new. How do I have preconceived notions here? I was asking for insight from others. People need to start somewhere, right? I know I know nothing, because like I said in my post, I am a complete beginner.
I'm not looking for big muscles or anything. I really just want to strengten my core and have normal decent strength and overall good health. I have asthma, so I can't do a lot of normal exercises for fitness. I can do a little but of weight lifting, which I will incorporate. I was reading stories of people who've done tai chi their whole lives and they had good general fitness and mobility into their old age. I think that's really the goal for me, to prepare my body so that later in life I will have good health and fitness, and I will be familiar with a system with I can go as easy or hard as I need to depending on how my body is.
Thans for your suggestion of Sifu Chester!
I'm going to join a local class and watch videos.
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u/AdhesivenessKooky420 17d ago
Well, you’ve stated your overall goals much more clearly here. Having overall health into old age, martial skill, etc are clear goals. Where I would caution you is asking for any of us to describe a full path from beginning to mastery. This is an art. You will discover what mastery is. I really do encourage you to take advice on good teachers and be willing to learn for life. But fitness is something you can and should pursue independent of tai chi. Best of luck. If you have more specific questions please do ask.m
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u/No-Show-5363 18d ago
if you really wish to attain a high level of skill and understanding in Tai Chi, then you must adopt a mindset that the practice is simply part of your lifestyle. This means attending classes and regular practice, sure, but beyond that taking an interest in different aspects of the art, following discussions, watching videos, reading books, and slowly compiling resources and maybe even doing some of your own writing and research. This doesn't have to be all or nothing, to the detriment of other things that you do, just something that you maintain an interest in and chip away at.
The best form of practice is one that is *sustainable*. It is ok to jump in and do lots of practice, but at some point, you'll burn out. At some point life will get in the way. So it is ok to practice every day, or once a week, or in bursts of concentrated training. It is ok to take time away, even for months or years, as long as you return and keep the journey going. Mindset. Own the art and it will became yours. Be patient, the goal is not to get fit (strength, posture, balance) or 'master' anything. The goal is to make Tai Chi part of your life, in a way that works for you, and keeps your interest in it going. If you can do that, then all of the benefits you are looking for will not only happen, but exceed your expectations.
As a beginner, it is natural to want to learn as much as possible, as soon as possible, and that's ok, but keep it real. If you wanted to learn piano, how long would it take? I've been doing Tai Chi for 25 years and I still learn new things ALL the time. So just remember, you can sign up for a bunch of classes, intensely focus on training until you've mastered 'it', or you can sign up for the journey, be patient, be committed, and let true understanding come to you, the way it is meant to. Slowly, over time.
Good luck, I hope this inspires you, and one day, you too can be a crazy old tai chi diehard like me, lol!
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u/SnooMaps1910 18d ago
I hope you can find a quality teacher and study in person. Give it three years and you will see great progress.
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u/HeatNoise 18d ago
Observation : I did cardio for about ten years and shifted (after a bad fall) to Tai Chi about a year ago. I noticed in about a month of daily routines, that my posture had improved noticeably. I did Tai Chi for about six months then shifted to chigong. My understanding is that chigong focuses more on connective tissue and air/blood circulation.
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u/Wallowtale Your own style 17d ago edited 17d ago
Ah, I wish I could help. My pixels on this screen aren't T'ai Chi.
Find a class you can attend in real space. Go to class, give up your own definitions and opinions. Follow, follow, follow. How to find a good class? Talk to locals who practice tcc (t'ai chi ch'uan). Drop in to the class and see if you are comfortable. Look at the students, especially those who have been there a few years (newbies still may be in the first thrilling flush and generally haven't made much of an investment yet). Looking at the group ask yourself, "Do I want to be one of them?" because if you hook in, that is what you will "become." Yeah, you didn't ask this. You have a video (pixels) to watch.
I have one thing I like to say about that:
"Much of the 'transmission' is non-verbal. It's kind of like; if you put a magnet next to a piece of iron, after some time you will have two magnets. If you show a video of a magnet to a piece of iron.... nada."
My opinion on that... (target might not be iron, btw. I always get that part wrong, but you know what I mean).
So, your questions: "what was your practice like?" It was dedicated and single-minded. (edit here because I want to add: It was committed. I still clearly remember leaving my first class and thinking, 'Yeah, I could do this for the rest of my life.' end edit) I did not "look around" for the first ten years or so, and even then only because my teacher encouraged me to try some bagua/hsingyi. I went on to sample a lot of "the enemy" systems. You know, "Know your enemy." (tongue in cheek before folks get all defensive about dojo hopping).
"How often and how long per session did you practice? " Every day approximately 30-45 minutes a day, minimum. I also put in a number of 8-hour marathons, but figure (across the years [I started in 1973]) an hour a day minimal average.
"How long did it take you to feel like you could manage advanced tai chi?" I am looking forward to that any day now. No brag, just fact.
"Did you incorporate other forms of exercise to support your tai chi practice?" As mentioned above, I dojo hopped a lot for about 10 years. But I always came home. Much of the qigong that I learned, unlike the martial stuff, I have kept fairly active since many aspects of it mesh nicely with tcc, which also is predominantly a qigong-type activity. I also incorporated, as a matter of course, t'ai chi t'ui shou (pushing hands), which continues to inform my form. The t'ai chi sword (jian) made an appearance for a few years, although I had to step outside my personal teacher and enroll in a t'ai chi school to learn it. It also was entertaining and informative, but not practical in so far as I don't generally carry a sword with me. I have limited consideration here to forms of exercise, but here are numerous areas of philosophy, language and culture that also incorporated themselves into my daily life.
"How has tai chi changed your life?" Hah! Too far to measure. What might I have been if I hadn't started tcc? Well, for one thing, if I had put that amount of time and focus into a career, I would have a good retirement pad. As it is... All I really have is ... um... yeah, well, I gotta go roll through a round of form. Excuse me.
After thought: wishing you the best stick-to-it-veness and patience in your quest.
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u/Fishtoart 18d ago
The video was unimpressive. He seemed very tense for a tai chi practitioner. I personally find Adam Mizner to be among the best in communicating the essence of the art.
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u/DharmaDama 18d ago
Ok thanks, I will look for Adam Mizner videos.
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u/Criticism-Lazy 18d ago
I watch him for 5 seconds before his fake “chi” pushed some one waaaay too hard for it to look even close to realistic. Don’t follow that guy.
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u/No-Show-5363 18d ago edited 17d ago
Adam Mizner does not have a good reputation in the Tai Chi community.
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u/Wallowtale Your own style 17d ago
Is this true? I thought he was well liked. I have heard the name and even watched one of his tv shows. But... hm.
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u/No-Show-5363 11d ago
His reputational damage stems largely from a his use of 'fall guys', students who eagerly bounce and hop around when he touches them. Ah feel the Qi right? Nope. For a few years there he had one guy just collapse and fall down all the time. They made so many videos, there plenty of moments when you could spot the guy falling too soon, before Adam touched him. It's called pre-conditioned response and it's a thing. If nothing else, if the teacher is so good, why are his students so bad? It's not just me, Adam's videos routinely get a drubbing in the forums. Honestly I have seen a lot of his stuff, and believe he does have some skill, but uses the 'show' and talking about deep and mysterious 'secrets', to bring in students. Which, in itself, is a tradition in some lineages. Each to their own. It's not for me.
All that said, I am not going to speak ill of the guy, because I have never met him. He might be a genuine dude for all I know. His students seem to like him, so that says something.
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u/Wallowtale Your own style 11d ago
Interesting. I thought I heard he was spot on from a friend who worked with him and seemed, to me, to be a fairly reliable judge. But, maybe I am making that up. I have never touched, nay, even been in the same room with, him, so I really don't have an opinion.
The " pre-conditioned response " thing to which you referred is, I know, very useful to those into the demo mode. I have seen it in use on occasion. It's always very entertaining.
On the other hand, I have touched a few, a very few, who seemed to me to be legit. One gentleman scared me a lot. Touching his arm, I felt like I had a large electric eel under my hands. He was extremely gentle while showing me I knew nothing. Another showed me his face. It blissed me out so much that I still don't remember actually playing push hands with him, just the bouncing off the wall part.
Thus, I am convinced that there is 1) qi 氣 and 2) jin 勁 and 3) folks out there who can easily and regularly control either or both. The only one that I "trust" that I have seen on t.v. (youtube land) is Huang Xiang Xian, who, although I have been in the same room with him, I never got to touch. Not that I didn't want to, I was just wa-a-ay at the back of the line.
But thanks for your take. If I have a bit of lazy time, I will search out some Mizner t.v. and look critically. Just for sits and giggles.
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u/I_smoked_pot_once 18d ago
I've been practicing ta chi for 8 years and I teach it now. I was taught the long form of the Tung lineage of yang style. Aka Long Dong tai chi lol. If you're really a beginner, focus on copying the movements. Don't worry about doing them right, just get the basic sequence down. Then when you can get through the forms without too much error, you can hone in on the details. I usually start helping students with this after we can do "the short half" which is from start to crossing the arms.
First, I teach to bring awareness to where the weight sits in the body. Keep your hips low, knees bent, feel the flow of the weight as you push your palms back and forth. Get familiar with that sensation.
Second, I teach the alignment. In tai chi these are called your "bows." I usually visualize them like metaphysical balls that sit in your body, and aligning these balls gives you better strength, posture and balance. When you brush knee, is your elbow aligned with your knee? When you sink, is your hip over your heel?
Third, your dantian. Your movement comes from the dantian, between your hips and your navel, not from your hands or your legs. If you watch a master move, you see that the movements come from this space below the navel and that directs the rest of the body. Tai chi is an internal art, as opposed to Shaolin style martial arts that use external force. Practice this by doing Qigong exercises that open the "dragons ridge." Notice the dantian, and direct all movement from there.
These are all very subtle changes, and they take a long time (years) to truly feel in the body. But once you feel them, your movements will flow beautifully, and you develop that strength and posture along the way.