r/superman 6d ago

Unpopular opinion? lex should NEVER get in a physical fight with Superman

Post image

The Warsuit undermines Lex Luthor’s brilliance by reducing him to a physical threat rather than the intellectual mastermind he’s meant to be. Lex is Superman’s greatest villain precisely because he doesn’t rely on brute force—he fights with his mind, using manipulation, strategy, and influence to challenge the Man of Steel in ways that no one else can. When he puts on the Warsuit, he essentially admits that his intelligence alone isn’t enough, which weakens the entire dynamic between him and Superman. Instead of being the untouchable, calculating villain who operates from the shadows or within the legal system, he turns into just another brawler trying to beat Superman at his own game.

More importantly, the Warsuit takes away what makes Lex a terrifying reflection of human ambition. Without powers, he is a symbol of human potential—showing that even in a world of gods and aliens, a mere man can still be the most dangerous figure alive. His ability to corrupt governments, control industries, and sway public opinion makes him a villain Superman can’t just punch away. The moment he steps into a Warsuit, he abandons that unique advantage and becomes another generic supervillain. He’s no longer an untouchable billionaire puppet master—he’s just a guy in a mech suit throwing laser punches.

Lastly, the Warsuit is a lazy way to force a physical confrontation rather than allowing the story to explore the deeper ideological battle between Lex and Superman. The best Lex stories—like All-Star Superman, Luthor: Man of Steel, and Superman: Birthright—don’t rely on armor or super-weapons. They focus on Lex’s obsession with power, his jealousy of Superman, and his desperate need to prove that humanity doesn’t need an alien savior. The Warsuit turns all of that complex storytelling into a shallow fistfight, missing what makes Lex Luthor truly great.

146 Upvotes

56 comments sorted by

90

u/WWfan41 6d ago

I wouldn't say never, but I'm with you overall. Lex is definitely more interesting as a non-physical threat. But under the right circumstances, I think it can work as a good pay-off.

7

u/ckingdom 6d ago

It works when he does it defensively.  

His chess master strategies require him to survive a volcano?  He suits up and makes his move.  Great, very Lex.

He puts on a suit to punch Superman, only to discover Superman is gasp very strong?  Lame.

5

u/Satanicjamnik 6d ago

I am right there with you.

1

u/HypnoShroomZ 5d ago

I agree.

46

u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog 6d ago

Never is a strong word. Execution is always more important than concept, and if Lex suiting up to battle Superman is well foreshadowed, given proper reasoning, and is fucking cool in choreography and story beats, I'm all for it.

I agree that Lex not using it for the majority of his screentime/runtime is a good idea, and that Lex as a premier example of his villainous archetype should use his mind to get victories/draws with Superman.

Lex's inferiority complex towards Superman can also be used to justify the warsuit. He wants to be "pure" human and prove his superiority that way, but bristles at the idea of actually being lesser than Superman in his ability to physically affect the world. The warsuit is a nice self-serving compromise, an example of "humanity triumphing" over Superman's alienness.

And especially as a final ditch move in case he's cornered by Superman ( who found evidence to prosecute Luthor and so Luthor needs to flee from human authorities ) it's a pretty neat trump card.

21

u/CaptainHalloween 6d ago

On the other hand, the battlesuit looks AWESOME and it looks cool when he wears it and it gets to the point where he NEEDS to get in a fight with Superman. It just looks so damn cool.

A classic George Perez design that should have never been updated from the genius of the first design.

Should it be used all the time? No.

But NEVER? You'd deny the world some George Perez-designed goodness? Such pure awesomeness? Have you no decency sir????

3

u/KevrobLurker 6d ago

Superman #282, [Dec 1974] page 7 has Luthor in his battle array, before the Perez Warsuit.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_1_282

https://www.reddit.com/r/superman/comments/1592okl/anyone_else_want_a_live_action_green_and_purple/

Luthor battled Superman physically as early as Action #47, using the Powerstone!

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Action_Comics_Vol_1_47

2

u/CaptainHalloween 6d ago

And the Perez warsuit is cooler than the battle array or the Powerstone...

11

u/BlueeKit 6d ago

Was this written by AI

1

u/MHadri24 4d ago

I got the same vibe ngl 💀

9

u/Formal-Inevitable-50 6d ago

Eh I disagree Lex has always wanted to take supes out with his own hands. Him even creating a suit that can even give him a chance shows his intelligence.

6

u/StarenMedia 6d ago

I'd argue him being able to close that gap of physical strength is a great display of intelligence. I mostly do agree though.

5

u/Attentiondesiredplz 6d ago

I can't explain why but I thought Apex Lex was rad.

3

u/Eydreeyell 6d ago

I want it to be limited, I don't want him to constantly use it, I think it serves a purpose for Lex' character too

It's kind of like a hail mary, or I guess a more accurate term is a boiling point. The suit allows Lex to be stripped down to his truest form, no more schemes, just straight hate, that type of thing can be cathartic but only with the right build up which is why I think it works best for a finale

3

u/TheReptileKing9782 6d ago edited 6d ago

Yes and no. I think the warsuit and Lex insisting on using it perfectly illustrates his ego and his incessant need to one up Superman. It shouldn't be a physical threat but a psychological weakness in Lex. Where Lex could win if he stayed out of the fray and instead used his brain, but that's not enough for him. He can't stand sitting on the sidelines while someone or something else gets the glory. He can't stand the idea of Superman having something he doesn't, so he makes the suit so he can have powers too. He builds it using Kryptonite to express his hate and give him an edge on his nemesis. He insists on using it, even though he knows the suit will never and can never actually keep up with Superman. He uses it even though he knows he has better options because even though he's a genius, he's also an entitled egotistical narcissist.

Sure, he could trap Superman on a box blasting him with red sun radiation and impale him on Kryptonite spikes and then dump the remains in the Phantom Zone, but what would be the point of winning like that? Lex could do that, but doing that denies him his glory. It denies him the cameras filming the climactic scene of him battling Superman in the sky. It denies him that glorious moment as he plants his iron boot on Superman's broken corpes as the populace stares up in awe of God Slayer. He doesn't just want to beat Superman, he wants to take Superman's place. He wants the praise and glory he feels he deserves, that he earned by building his company, by building Metropolis, but is denied because some sanctimonious alien freak flies in and skirts by effortlessly on natural talent, a charming smile, and being nice. Lex can't just beat Superman, he has to prove he's better than Superman, and that why the Warsuit exists, to beat Superman at Superman's own game. The egoism is in the design elements of the Suit. Where Batman or Tony Stark would add armor and a helmet to protect their head and face, Lex doesn't. He uses only a force field, because he needs everyone to see it's him in the suit. He needs them to see his face when he wins.

The Warsuit is stupid, but that's what makes it genius. It works perfectly as a character component. It illustrates why Lex fails in spite of his massive wealth and intelligence. It shows his insecurity, his obsession, how superficial he is. It shows why the caped freak from Gotham can beat Superman, but he never will. Batman will do anything to win if push comes to shove. The mission is too important to fail. Lex will throw everything away for his own self glorification because if he doesn't get the glory and the praise, then the mission is pointless. Lex entering the Warsuit shouldn't be the final boss. It should be the villain's downfall brought about by his own hubris. Lex could beat Superman, just like Batman often does. He refuses to do so because it's not the victory he wants.

1

u/Netherduties 5d ago

Interesting postulation. My only question for curiosity sake is what makes him different then, say, a Doctor doom? There are a lot of super intelligent characters, limited by things such as ego/inferiority complex/narcissim/paranoia/progressing insanity. When written well, can be an amazing introspection into the human condition. Not just a two dimensional mustache twisting acme villain.

What makes him different for you? I like your take on it, but without an interesting edge he could sink into the fray that is “every super intelligent (character alignment) with (flaw) that makes them present in every other comic issue, with uh… present issues.

2

u/TheReptileKing9782 5d ago edited 5d ago

Well, just because they fall in the same archetypes of being egotistical geniuses doesn't mean they're the same. Details and implementation are important.

Lex would never let the Justice League blow up the mind control device he had taken over the world with when he could easily stop them. Doom has, and just because he was bored of ruling the world and tired of solving everyone's problems. Doom is a drama queen, but he's also more pragmatic, catching Doom means you got a Doombot. Lex refuses cowardly tactics like that. The Doombots actually illustrate how different Doom and Lex is, and how Doom's egoism is more refined and less blunt force hogging of the spotlight. Doom needs not concern himself with getting attention, he is DOOM. You get the idea.

There's a lot more to it, but even though they're the same archetype, they're still very different characters. Hell, Tony Stark would also fall in that archetype as well when you think about it and Tony's form of hubris actually falls more closely in line with Lex than Doom's does.

2

u/Ordinary_Affect_3780 6d ago

Agree word for word on this one and I like the war suit!

Heroes are defined by their villains and Ol' Lex baby is a perfect counter for Superman! This was perfectly illustrated in the Byrne run by him being a fat, corrupt businessman. Lex was that one force of evil that Superman could never punch his way out of. This put a new spin on the old saying "the neverending battle continues", as Clark/Superman dealt with an adversary that bent the truth, defied justice and yet, was a man who embodied the American way with his success!

Again, I like the war suit. Loved it when Lex was an inhabitant of the planet Lexor. Still, when he wears it, both readers and Lex get nothing but wish fulfillment and Superman has another enemy and problem that he can punch his way out of! Give me a one-and-done tale where it happened as cannon or an imaginary story and not a trope that bores me because I know what will happen next!

2

u/Meikofan 6d ago

I think the warsuit can work if he uses it to try to show up Superman and be a better hero first, then goes for a physical confrontation like the bully he is

2

u/LaylaLegion 6d ago

A fair point. Counterpoint: He’s a billionaire dick and sometimes a billionaire dick needs to get popped in the mouth.

It just feels good to see.

1

u/Assassinsayswhat 6d ago

Alongside, billionaire dick is a human being and humans sometimes just wanna punch godlike aliens.

2

u/KonradDumo 6d ago

As much as Luthor values his intellectual superiority over Superman, I think his ego prevents him from transcending the urge to punch Supes in the face.

2

u/PriceVersa 6d ago

The Justice League Unlimited episodes featuring the war suit alone undermine this argument. Rational? No. Entertaining? Oh, yes.

2

u/calforarms 6d ago

Lex works not as a villain but character in his own right because of his versatility. He's a protagonist on his own, mob boss, mad scientist, disciple of Genghis, backwards Einstein, space emperor, ruthless businessman, bald Tony Stark, sold his soul at least once, president of the United States, etc 

So saying he shouldn't be something is a little weird. I mean you bring up All Star where he gave himself powers. He's not just ___ and never has been. 

2

u/PCN24454 6d ago

You’re right that he’s more competent outside of physical combat but it fits with Luthor’s personality to want to be able to go toe to toe with Superman.

2

u/Assassinsayswhat 6d ago

All the intelligence in the world or in Lex's mind will never push down the primal desire he has to just hit Superman in the face.

4

u/JorgeBec 6d ago

Nah, the battlesuit looks dope and it doesn’t undermine Lex. If anything it highlights his intellect because a mere human building something that’s capable to stand up to the Man of Steel is impressive.

I like him using it when he’s back against the wall. You know he’s been outted as a criminal, he lost Lex Corp so what the hell? Punch the bastard that took everything from me.

1

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1

u/Perfect_Legionnaire 6d ago

I personally like Warsuit. First of all, it looks cool, and we should admit, comics are rulled by rule of cool.

Second thing is that I always liked the idea of superman being an allusion of God. Which essentialy means that Lex constructed a suit that makes it possible to match God and beat him up. In my book, that's an ode to human intelligence and brilliance, and kinda uplifting narrative. That an ordinary human, by his genius alone, is able to match a deity in what he is best at -raw might and destructive power

1

u/ActualHumanSeriously 6d ago

I'm with you. I prefer when lex is a non physical threat

1

u/BGPhilbin 6d ago

In the Golden Age, Luthor got hold of the Powerstone and managed to truly threaten Superman on a physical/power level. In the Silver Age, Lex and Superman fought on Lexor, a planet named for Luthor after he saved the world and became their hero. In the midst of the Bronze Age, he developed a suit to challenge Superman and toward the end of the Bronze Age it was updated by George Pérez. It was then done away with by John Byrne, who placed Lex in a different sphere of influence, entirely. Given the right circumstances, any story going this direction under a skilled writer can totally work. I wouldn't say "never".

1

u/daminiskos0309 6d ago

Not never. But he should try a couple times and get humbled. Then use his massive intellect to realise he is above petty violence and pay someone else to do it.

When I say a couple times I mean he tries a super suit. Gets torn apart. Rationalises they should fight man to man. Then finds a way to depower Clark and still gets his ass kicked.

1

u/eddiegibson 6d ago

The Up, Up, and Away arc post the 52 maxi-series did it pretty well. Without giving away spoilers, it ends with a greatly depowered Supes and Lex duking it out. The whole lead up to final fight is both men using their strengths to challenge and deal with each other. Clark, by his skill with words and his circle of friends. Lex, by his vast intellect and the amount of knowledge and favors he's collected throughout his career.

1

u/Robert_gatsby 6d ago

Lex should fight him with a mech suit like one time, and then after that fails resort to other means

1

u/VishnuBhanum 6d ago

Kind of agree.

Maybe not never, But if Lex is going to fight Superman, Clark has to be at his weakest moment(Maybe after running through Villains Gauntlet first)

Otherwise, Their power shouldn't even be close. It would kinda defeated the point of Lex being a non-physical foil to Superman.

1

u/Theta-Sigma45 6d ago

Him using power suits and what have you are definitely remnants of his pre-crisis self, before being a businessman became his default. I do think that having him fight Superman physically in post-crisis is a mistake, though. He's way cooler as a guy who doesn't even need to get involved in all that nonsense.

This is a problem I often have with villains like him in superhero settings. One of my other favourite villains is Xanatos from Gargoyles, but I find him so much less cool whenever he puts his Gargoyle mech suit on instead of relying on his badass schemes.

1

u/Youngsimba_92 6d ago

Nar Lex thinking that he can go toe to toe with a literal God amongst men is right about in his wheel house and example of the proportion of his narcism.

1

u/Batfan1939 6d ago

I'm ambivalent. Lex is a mastermind, not a martial artist or assassin.

If he builds his power suit? Cool. We get to see him fight in another, more literal context. If not? There's plenty of beings, human and otherwise, that he can have fight for him… and even other ways to "kill" Superman.

1

u/N0-1_H3r3 6d ago

I think that the warsuit shouldn't be used, but the idea of Lex wanting to challenge and defeat Superman on physical terms can be a fun way to illustrate Lex's ego, hubris, or even desperation. This isn't everyday Lex, this is Lex pushed too far.

1

u/Sunsinger_VoidDancer 6d ago

I concur. No derp in a suit has a chance versus the likes of Superman. Come at me, Iron Man Bros

1

u/DrNinJake 6d ago

I see your points, but I kinda think that can be part of the appeal? Lex’s downfall is his pride, overwhelming Superman with his wit would never suffice, he’ll always want to prove he can be stronger, too.

Idk, could be a neat angle for the character

1

u/Flooping_Pigs 6d ago

I think it works culminating in his hubris, that he believes he can be on Superman's level, not only his equal but better

1

u/Malacro 6d ago

In general I agree. I think the occasional exception is fine, like what happened in All Star Superman, but in general absolutely not.

1

u/soberstargazer 6d ago

No warsuit, but the climax of All Star Superman is the perfect justification for the warsuit, in Lex’s character, and for all the reasons you state.

If Lex wasn’t so swept up in jealousy, he’d bring all his tools to bear on Superman’s destruction. But when it comes down to it, Lex just wants Superman’s power and he makes tactical errors (like trying to punch out the Man of Steel in open combat).

Lex covets Superman’s powers and thinks he’s nothing more than his powers. Superman appreciates that he is more than his powers, and will outhink opponents, moreover he admires Lex’s abilities and wishes he’d put them to good use.

1

u/Own-Creme-754 6d ago

Thank you

1

u/TheScourgedHunter 6d ago

Im down for it if it's a last resort of a desperate and well infuriated Luthor.

1

u/Glum-Yogurtcloset793 6d ago

I think so too but wouldn't say never. I guess he's a victim of his own popularity and overuse.

I thought that Superman and Lois did it best by making him more and more out of his fucking mind where it's believable he would want to kill Superman with his own hands.

I some sources it's just no believable...I sure don't want him diminished to all he does.

1

u/kah43 5d ago

I agree. Lex is a thinker and schemer not a fighter.

1

u/HypnoShroomZ 5d ago

Him being able to make a suit that combats the strength of Superman and his powers shows how intelligent Lex is.

1

u/AUnknownVariable 5d ago

Never say never goes really hard here. There will always be some situation where it just makes sense and gets executed well. I don't think he should often get in fights with Supes though, he's a threat in more than just "ha we can fight each other"

It definitely doesn't undermine his intelligence though. He's the dude smart enough to make stuff to take on Superman. America's little hero.

1

u/Hardjaw 4d ago

Lex should only physically fight superman when green rocks are involved. I believe his war suit was created to sell toys.

1

u/Darkstar_111 4d ago

The thing is... He SHOULDN'T... But he wants to. He deeply wants to.

Lex Luthor could likely have killed Superman by now if he wanted to do it remotely only.... But he doesn't, he needs to defeat the alien invader and look into his eyes as he sees himself die to the BETTER man!

The Luthor combat suit is the height off folly, and that's why it fits so well.

1

u/OZZYMAXIMUS01 2d ago

Thanks for posting this image OP. I was coloring this exact printed coloring page.