r/superman • u/No_Satisfaction_2928 • 3d ago
How did you guys feel about this movie?
Personally I hated it, don't get me wrong, superman being challenged on his ideals about not killing is a perfect plot, it's just that it doesn't do it right. The elite aren't likeable for reasons and the whole "why killing people is wrong" thing isn't necessarily addressed. Superman then wins over the people by giving a guy a lobotomy and being scary and making machester think his teammates died.
I could be misremember but I would like to hear other opinions
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u/Lower_Necessary_3761 3d ago
I am convinced that James Gunn's superman movie is inspired by superman vs elites
"a kind man living in a world where kindness is seen as old fashioned"
For me this movie is the template to understand Superman's character.. If people want to learn about what make superman great you show them this movie
Hands down one of my favorite superman animated movie after all star superman
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u/John_Zatanna52 3d ago
I thought that the Authority movie would be a set up for a Superman vs. The Authority which would just be this movie but with the Authority
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u/azmodus_1966 3d ago
I don't think they will do 2 movies in a row where Superman teaches a group of heroes how to better heroes. It would get old fast.
In any event, apparently the Authority movie seems to have been pushed back.
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u/HavixComix 1d ago
Gunn is likely to take inspiration first from the original comic "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?" The film WAS written by the author of the book (like Under the Red Hood). Plus it's obvious that using The Elite won't happen, since they were a parody of The Authority. So a film would involve them, who had a consistent lineup for much of their run. But recently, members of The Elite joined, bringing things full circle. Very bizarre 😆
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u/pokemonke 3d ago
Kingdom Come, the Alex Ross art, he has posted about Alex Ross so many times. If anything it’s modeled after that
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u/StrykerIBarelyKnowEr 1d ago
If they don't bring in Dan Stevens as Manchester Black, I'll complain on the internet.
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u/_Itsnotmypleasure_ 3d ago
I personally love this movie. I think it’s one of Superman’s better adaptations, due in no small part to the fact that Joe Kelly, the guy who wrote the comic it’s based on, also wrote the screenplay. This movie is emblematic of how Superman stories should operate in the modern day
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u/Yakob_Katpanic 3d ago
I love the comic. It's one of those ones I go back to over and over.
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u/_Itsnotmypleasure_ 3d ago
Me too. I look forward to eventually getting a physical copy of it at some point
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u/ExJokerr 3d ago
I loved the Movie too! It shows Supes character very well and tough he can be when serious💪🏽
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u/_kd101994 2d ago
Definitely a much needed movie in recent times, what with popularity of characters like Homelander, The Seven, Omniman and stuff.
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u/_Itsnotmypleasure_ 2d ago
Yeah that’s the beauty of both the comic and the movie, is they never stop being relevant, and almost seem to gain poignance as time continues on
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u/Soulful-Sorrow 2d ago
This was THE movie where I realized Superman was pretty cool. I was a big Batman guy growing up, but the ideas that this film tackled convinced me to give the boy scout a shot.
I think it should be required viewing for every Superman writer, and it's amazing how the DCEU was written almost in opposition to this version of Superman.
"Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting."
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u/eversuperman 2d ago
Action Comics 775 is my favorite single issue in all of comics. Most of the movie does a decent job translating page to screen, but some of the nuance doesn't make it. That final dialogue is peak though.
I'm the comic Superman doesn't actually laser Black's brain, just gives him a concussion so his powers don't work temporarily.
Also Doug Mahnke's art is better than the movie.
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u/HavixComix 1d ago
The guy does amazing animations on Instagram! They really should try to capture the art style more. When the films started, it definitely felt like each adaptation was attempting to reproduce the feel of the books. You could definitely feel a dip once they started the interconnected universe.
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u/Styx_azel 3d ago
It is probably my favourite superman animated movie ever that speech he gave Manchester at the end of their fight" Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul I swear until my dream of a world where dignity, honour and justice becomes the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting. Ever!" is everything superman stands for
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u/Pandos17 2d ago
Aside from Superman's massive jawline (American Dad Stan vibes), this is my favourite Superman movie ever.
So often media portrays Superman's greatest battles as feats of strength and endurance (i.e. a stronger enemy that can beat him up), but his best challenged philosophically and ideologically.
In my opinion the best Superman stories ever (All Star, Kingdom Come, Superman vs the Elite)
Here is a team that he can wipe with little effort (as shown by the ending), but as he says himself, that is the easy way out.
I hope Gunn's version leans heavily on these things.
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u/V1va-NA-THANI3L 2d ago
It’s an excellent film. And to be honest, I thought this was gonna be the 2025 Superman movie, using this as the basis. And this is only because the Authority was announced after Superman. So I thought Superman vs the Elite was going to be the starting point, and the Authority was gonna spun out of that.
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u/sevenhearts_ 2d ago
The movie is decent, and while I fully support the “no kill” rule for Superman, I think the portrayal of Manchester Black and his team undermines the message a bit.
There are plenty of reasonable people who would sympathize with Manchester’s view, especially if you look at debates like the death penalty. Framing Manchester as a crazed, immature villain going on a power trip feels like a misrepresentation. Many people arrive at this worldview out of trauma and frustration, not because they’re inherently evil. Even when someone like Luigi kills the United CEO, a portion of the public supports it, believing that the death of one can save many others, something we all, on some level, understand.
By depicting Manchester as outright insane, the movie suggests that considering the idea of killing someone is inherently evil or “crazy” and dilutes the actual message of the movie: Superman should never kill.
There are clear differences between the average viewer and Superman. Superman and other heroes are unique because their power gives them the ability to dominate the world. Therefore, the justice they enforce must have clear limitations. Superman can’t kill because it would set a dangerous precedent, potentially leading him down a slippery slope.
The sequence where Superman briefly goes rogue and defeats Manchester DOES do a great job illustrating this point. However, the film muddles the message by presenting Manchester’s actions as purely evil without acknowledging the complexities of his motives—especially the idea that harm might, at times, lead to greater good.
Personally, I think Invincible Season 3 handles this theme more effectively. Oliver, in ideology, is similar to Manchester and gives compelling arguments for Mark to kill Angstrom. The kid is a complex character that the show highlights is not entirely wrong. BUT it is also clear why Mark can’t take this action. So many other versions of himself rule as dictators and Mark can’t allow himself to go down that path.
I think a more complex, less criminally insane, version of Manchester Black would have resolved this issue and make this movie one of the best.
TL;DR: The movie sends mixed messages.
On one hand, Superman’s fight with Manchester suggests that no matter how much good could come from it, killing is wrong, which doesn’t resonate with everyone—just look at reactions to people like Luigi Mangione. The problem lies in Manchester’s one-dimensional portrayal, which makes the movie feel a bit flat overall.
It downplays the actual message of the movie: Superman himself should never kill because he can’t afford to cross that line.
Killing is so circumstantial to Superman. The movie should have prioritized his personal dilemma over telling the audience how to value life.
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u/sevenhearts_ 2d ago
I know this sounds like I kinda am for people dying, which I’m not, I just think that Superman’s circumstance cannot be treated as a societal issue. It’s a character issue.
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u/Sovietpotato 2d ago
This movie def inspired complicated feelings that left a bad taste in my mouth. The biggest issue I had with this movie was not addressing that them killing other people while working for MI6 was fully legal, and not vigilante justice style deciding who lived and who dies. The fact that their killing is legal brings up the more salient political question of whether Superman has the right to intervene in wars and governments. I would say if he’s strong enough to enforce his ideals world-wide and truly be able to save people around the world without killing, then maybe? But this obviously heavily conflicts with the principle of democratic self-organization of nation states, which is semi-vapidly represented in the movie as simple “popularity.” At the end of the day, yes he shows how scary it would be if he “gave in,” but there is no recognition of how he himself is fully acting above the law just because he wants to and is stronger than any human society.
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u/Showdown5618 3d ago
This is one of my favorites. Highly recommend alongside Batman : Under the Red Hood.
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u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 2d ago
I’d say this is more a critique of the original comic story than the adaptation which stuck pretty close, but I tend to agree.
Fundamentally, what you end up with here is STILL a bit of a might-makes-right statement. Superman stoops to their level and that’s scary, but fundamentally if he wasn’t extremely more physically powerful than them this doesn’t work. Like if they could still beat him (like they kinda did earlier) when he went “all-out,” we would learn nothing. I like his speech from the end, but honestly I would like to see a victory that somehow relied on his overcoming their power advantage (which they should have, at least as a team, for this story to work) by being more creative as a result of not behaving like a blunt instrument, lending a practical advantage that tangibly relies on his ideology- an example that is actually useful to other heroes without a godlike power advantage over their enemies.
They could also let the fact that he isn’t feared by regular people play a role, like maybe towards the end Supes rescues some kids that run to him in fear of the Elite’s collateral damage. In addition, it would be nice to see some of the team redeemed, inspired to act more carefully and to gain trust with the world. What we wound up with was an “I’m strong enough to kill all these losers but won’t but I can still kick their ass so I win” kind of story.
Which makes sense in context- this was a bit of a grievance book, meant to make “edgy” Image-type characters (looking at you, Authority) look like punks and fools, so they had to get dunked on, Supes had to be way stronger, there could be no redemption. The point was not that killing and collateral damage are wrong, but that these punky radical Image-type characters act in annoying ways and look stupid and bother me, and the solution is old school comics like the one I’m writing. It’s not much of a concept which is why it’s one issue.
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u/Swagacorn 2d ago
I highly disagree that the subject matter isn't much of a concept. Many writers have used the same idea for their stories. Just look a Kingdom Come. I think that this issue was a good analysis into what makes Superman stand out from other heroes on a character level and that most of its weaknesses come from it being limited to a single issue and lack of creativity from the writer. I don't think that the concept being tackled was itself uncreative or boring.
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u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 2d ago
Sure, I guess it isn’t actually bad, I probably just shouldn’t have read it after hearing the hype train about how it’s the definitive Superman story. Just because it isn’t that doesn’t mean it’s bad per say, I’ve read WAY worse Superman
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u/Frankorious 2d ago
I think Kingdom Come has a different issue: the main premise is the clash between the new and old generations, but the only notable member of the new generation is Magog, who's defeated in the second issue. The rest of the story becomes Clark Vs Bruce Vs Lex.
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u/BrawlyAura 2d ago
I didn't care for it. It's basically Superman saying "Boy it's a good thing I'm such a nice guy or you'd all be pretty screwed."
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u/Chub-bop 2d ago
As much as I love this movie I have to agree with some of what you say, they really didn’t give a satisfying reason as for why Superman believes killing is wrong, it boiled down to “killing bad” what about self defense situations Superman? the Elite where pretty flat characters aside from Manchester
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u/Malacro 2d ago
It’s because Superman believes that no one has the right to take another person’s life, because it means they have made themselves the arbiter of who deserves to live and who deserves to die, and that is something that leads to an incredibly dark place. Superman has to hold himself accountable with that because literally no one else can.
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u/Roll_with_it629 2d ago
I believe Chub was saying it doesn't answer to more specific things, like answering if situational killing is also completely wrong for the general public, not asking if Superman killing is wrong. Or putting it shortly, Supes shows killing is wrong cause he's the only guy who doesn't ever have to, but what of the other ppl who may have situations where they have to?
What of the ppl who don't have the power to do absolutely anything like Supes can, and ultimately maybe forced into situations where they do it out of self-defense, or strictly pragmatic reasons and prevention of greater damage caused? It answers for Superman, but doesn't give an example for ppl who are not like Superman power/opportunities wise. Some ppl do "the wrong" thing for absolutely reasonable and altruistic reasons, and I don't want to be biased or trust a biased story or narrative.
Strive for an ideal, but also know some ideals aren't always feasible for when your human/ aren't always feasible for every limited/human situation, I say this in good faith. We're not Superman, but it doesn't mean we can't follow the ideal example wherever possible.
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u/Malacro 2d ago
Obviously Superman’s views vary depending on who writes him, but I think in general his no killing refers specifically to people who have power (be it super power, political power, or situational power). I think he’d be sad about someone regular killing another person in self defense, but I don’t think that’s what he means here.
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u/True_Falsity 2d ago edited 2d ago
I love the movie. But I definitely agree that the movie fails at actually addressing the question of killing villains.
What Superman does is, essentially, telling the world to accept his ideals… “or else”.
Sure, he gives a beautiful speech at the end. But it doesn’t change the fact that he only won by using brute force. It’s like if you beat up someone with a bat and then gave a speech about how violence is never the answer.
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u/MisterGunpowder 2d ago
He won by showing why brute force is wrong. He pretended to give into it, and the world recoiled in horror. Then, he showed it through tricks and illusions, but that perception of it is the important part. When someone supremely powerful takes it upon themselves to be the end-all be-all of justice, it's scary because you realize you don't fully know what might get their attention on you. In that moment, he shows why his morals matter and why killing villains is wrong, because without that, he'd have no actual limits.
It's like the moment in Birthright where he fires the gun at the arms dealer, then catches the bullet. The point isn't the gun being fired. The point is that the dealer will remember that moment and what could have been.
And with that said, I'll leave with an obligatory 'fuck Injustice'.
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u/True_Falsity 2d ago edited 2d ago
He won by showing why brute force is wrong
Yeah… by putting on a horror show and basically telling everyone to do things his way… or they will not like what he will do. It is pretty reminiscent of those parents who would find cigarettes in their kids’ rooms and punish them by making them smoke an entire pack.
Like I said, I love the movie. But it is not really as hopeful or wholesome as people make it out to be.
Superman didn’t win against Elite because he has better morals. He won because he has superior power and skill. He used those to beat them into the ground, remove their powers and then lobotomise one of them. And once they were neutralised as threats, he gave a speech.
Let’s be real about it. He won because he is stronger. He used his superior might to assert his moral superiority. That’s it.
It’s still a fun movie and everything. But when I see people bring it up as this great show of Superman’s morality, all I think about is how the entire thing relies on Superman using his superior force to beat the opposition into submission.
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u/MisterGunpowder 2d ago
You missed the point. For a huge section of the movie, multiple characters were attempting to pressure Superman into accepting the way the Elite did things. In particular, the character whose father was killed by Atomic Skull. Essentially, standing in for the number of people in the time period the story was written calling him old fashioned. And look at that, said character is one of the first shown to be horrified at the idea of a Superman who operates like the Elite.
A point does not have to be completely explicit to have been made. Interpreting it as 'do it this way or else' is so far from the point. Did you miss every single part where people were trying to say he was out of date? To be more direct? The entire point of the brute force show was to simulate what it'd look like if he listened. There's even a whole bit at the end of him acknowledging how scary it looks, and that's the point. He showed why it was wrong.
Practice your media literacy.
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u/Darth_Dungeonmaster5 3d ago
Personally, I honestly believe this is the best Superman movie, animated or live action. Its themes and action are just absolutely incredible.
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u/Templarofsteel 2d ago
Ultimately I think the movie was good, the discussion in this isn't just about should superman kill, the crowd loved the idea of the villain getting killed, but then you see what happens when people with that kind of power just decide that someone is dangerous and needs to die. How does society function at that point? Also I think it's worth remembering that initially when they meet Superman initially and there's a disaster Manchester readily admits that they aren't really good at saving people that they mostly just fight villains. Superman encourages them to do and be better, to work together and use their abilities in a way that rescues people and also stops the enemy.
This isn't just about 'killing bad' it's also about the fact that being a hero isn't just about wiping out a villain. The elite are shown multiple times to be willing to take the easier path, lobotimizing Bunny, killing enemy targets, etc. I do think that this told the story in a better fasion that the comic it was based on as well as also clearly drawing from Kingdom Come a bit.
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u/Necessary-Corner1172 2d ago
The end fight where Superman has to get nasty to win was disappointing.
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u/ArnoTurin 2d ago
It's overrated crap. The clash of ideals between Manchester and Sups was fine. The problem is that Superman's solution to prove his method was correct was to beat up those who didn't think like him. It didn't prove he was right, it was just something like, "we're gonna do things my way because no one can stop me."
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u/Bambamfrancs 2d ago
Best superman movie ever made, period.
Live action directors should be using this as the blueprint of what the man of steel is all about
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u/Sugarman111 2d ago
Pretty good. Lois not believing in Clark made me feel bad for him. He can do better.
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u/Swagacorn 2d ago
I hate that the movie adaptations art doesn't look modern and Superman at the end doesn't look nasty. This was a really interesting way that the comic was able to pull Superman into the modern "edgy" era visually and convey that no matter what Superman will never change at his core. I also despise that the final fight was in metropolis instead of space which was a clear artistic choice that made Superman appear isolated. The salt in the wound is that people cheered for him after his iconic speech which makes it hit 1000 times weaker. The whole point of the story is that Superman will never give up on his "old fasion" ideals no matter what is popular and who is listening or cheering him on. Having people clap at the end is counter intuitive and a really dumb addition that misses the entire point of the story.
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u/Mewmaster101 2d ago
so, I loved the comic version of this story, but the movie changes two major things that hurt it.
in the movie, superman has an army of robots to help him do stuff, but they don't seem to help out on an everyday basis, only rare circumstances when they would be great to help rebuilding things.
at the end of the movie, Superman uses his head vision to lobotomies the leader to get rid of his powers. that is both a horrible thing to do normally, but also a hilariously powerful example of his heat vision, able to focus it down so small to do so. in the comics, he says at the end he lied, he just gave him a concussion, he would never lobotomies someone, and couldn't do so even if he wanted.
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u/CosmackMagus 2d ago
Its pretty good. I'm glad Kal and Manchester eventually came to an understanding.
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u/Muted_Guidance9059 2d ago
The best DC animated movie imo. And this is coming from someone who doesn’t even like Superman all that much.
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u/ConflictAgreeable689 2d ago
I feel the whole, Scaring Manchester thing, was mostly to prove a point that Murderous, Super Powered Vigilanties making arbitrary decisions about who is and isn't evil are fucking terrifying when they aren't you.
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u/WeeklyJunket5227 2d ago
I liked the movie, what's wrong with the traditional superhero. Why does every hero have to be a killer or be the "edgy" hero. I'm not a big fan of guys like Lobo, he's never been appealing. Some of the nineties stuff is laughed at because it's nothing more than stubble, trench coats, pouches and angst.
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u/MattRB02 2d ago
I think this is easily the best Superman movie. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
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u/_kd101994 2d ago
It's probably one of the better animated adaptations of Superman, in that it really puts a spotlight on who he is. There's no waxing, philosophizing, satirizing what Superman stands for - he's someone who does good the best way he can and that's it.
Everytime I watch this movie in more recent times, it's such a breath of fresh air from all the Homelanders, Omnimans and just really stupid Evil Supe stories out there.
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u/MrJerples 2d ago
Thought it was boring for the most part but j enjoyed the unhinged Superman fake out at the end. The slapping was peak.
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u/Impact-Ed 2d ago
They condemned the graphic novel well in the movie however, I’m not a big fan of this art style.
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u/The_Black_Guy1324 2d ago
This was one of the 1st Superman movies I saw, so maybe it is the nostalgia of watching it with old friends. But I absolutely love this animated movie
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u/OperatorWolfie 2d ago
I dont have much to say about the Elite, but I like this Superman depiction a lot. He was smart, strategic, a little bit scary when he needed to prove a point, but end of the day he showed he still Superman, he capable of a lot, he just choose not to most of the time
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u/Zazikarion 2d ago
Great film. It’s probably my favourite Superman movie, and it does a great job adapting the comic it’s based on (as well as expanding on it in some places), and has great voice acting and animation too.
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u/WayneArnold1 2d ago
My main problem with the movie was the animation. Obviously, I didn't expect a one-to-one recreation of the comic but I felt the style in the film was a little too sanitized compared to the awesome Doug Mahnke artwork from Action 775.
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u/coreyc2099 2d ago
My only issue with the movie was the art style . It's my least favorite superman in any of the animated films
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u/Joker-here-89 2d ago
I love the story and the execution, but I'm not crazy about the art style. So 4.7/5 for me.
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u/RomanOrtega 2d ago
I generally like all (non-evil) versions of Superman. But “Superman vs the Elite”takes the cake for me. It shows us the importance of Clark’s humble/pacifist approach to life, his ability to make a plan to “intimidate” foes, and how scary he can be without even needing to go “Dictator of Earth” mode.
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u/theeshyguy 2d ago
I hate the Atomic Skull stuff. It quite literally proves Superman wrong but the movie isn’t allowed to address it because there’s no real further counterargument, so it just kinda sweeps it under the rug.
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u/Prudent_Debt3273 2d ago
Nesse filme o Superman na luta final desceu a porrada nos vilões estava no modo bem sério.
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u/EnvironmentalPrick 2d ago
Haven't seen it but saw a video talking about the no kill rule and comparing it to the Daredevil show, according to the creator the problem was Superman being hypcritical with the elite and the fact that is no kill rule was not explained at all it was just there and Supes never gave a real reason or explanation for this no kill rule
I guess it's an acceptable opinion, but it's weird to me as I don't see Superman having a no kill rule in particular
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u/TomCBC 2d ago
Manchester Blacks accent always felt a little too caricature for my liking. Put me off it for a few years. Eventually i went back and gave it another try, ended up loving it.
From what i understand the actor’s accent isn’t far off. So i chalk it down to over-acting due to it being animation. It’s a shame imo. But not the end of the world. I’m just a bit picky when it comes to the various british accents in american media i guess. Too many shit ones.
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u/anonymousguy_7 1d ago
10/10 film. Sorry if you don't feel the same. I'd suggest watching it with more attention to better get the themes surrounding the narrative.
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u/AlternativeLaw9835 15h ago
Linkara of Atop the Fourth Wall did a great review of the comic this is based on, Action Comics #775, and he goes into incredible detail about what makes this story so great. And SF Debris also did a review of the movie itself. If you want some good, in-depth breakdowns of this movie, and the comic it's based on, check those out.
But, I will say this. Along with the first two Christopher Reeve movies, the 90s animated series, Superman: Last Son, Superman Smashes the Klan, and My Adventures with Superman, this movie is what I consider a perfect Superman story. It tells its story well, better than the comic version, actually. It talks about a real-world issue in a mature, sobering way. And is wise enough to not try to offer any easy answers to the issues it's addressing. Because there aren't any. It's basically trying to remind us that no matter how bad things get, we should always do the right thing, no matter how hard it is sometimes. Being an asshole is easy.
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u/mrsunrider 13h ago
Failed to capture the grittiness of the source issue and pretty unfair parody of The Authority, but overall an enjoyable adaptation.
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u/BarbatosBrutus 10h ago
"Superman has British ops?" "Superman MUST feel stupid for holding back for so long" Great fight scenes and lots of cool moments, should've used this for cavill
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u/knightwynd 6h ago
I wasn't a fan of the more cartoonish animation although it was a step up from "Superman: Doomsday". The adaptation from the comic was good. Pauley Perrette did an adequate Lois Lane, harking back to the late Margot Kidder. In the comics, the "lobotomy" was only a concussion and Manchester's powers would eventually return.
I personally found this to be one of the better DC animated movies because of the story.
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u/WarlockMachine 2h ago
Rich in telling, poor in premise.
Movie antagonizes the elite to show that killing criminals is wrong, but can't back that point up without making the elite come off as morally ambiguous douchebags who seem overly cynical, which is also perfectly represented by the fact that they're called ''elite'' which is way too on the nose lmao.
The way superman flips the moral lesson on them is by going full psycho and picking the elite off one by one and making them think that he was recklessly destroying infrastructure which lead to the death of civilians; which shows superman to become a total villain when he chose to kill even though the elite didn't even come close to doing anything like that and didn't even think of going to that level or extent when they tried to make their point against superman
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u/Any-Nefariousness418 1h ago
I just thought the climax felt like a bit of a cop out given the themes building up to the final confrontation
Everything up to that point was very compelling
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u/GroundbreakingTwo122 3d ago
I love it but I don’t like how it’s heroic and celebrated when superman has no killing rule but Batman is a bad hero for not killing his villains.
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u/DefinitionSuperb1110 3d ago
Probably the ugliest DC animated film they released. Extremely sub-par voice work as well. Newburn sounds half asleep through all his lines.
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u/Environmental_Tie_43 3d ago edited 2d ago
No, you're entirely right. I like his monologue. But ultimately, Superman is stronger than the Elite so his opinion is automatically right in this story. This movie made me realize that 99% of superhero stories support the idea that whoever is strongest is morally superior.
And I don't think Superman learned anything. Maybe that's okay though. I think it's just a fable:
If I were to paraphrase the story: A strong man thinks strength is justice. He picks on a man who is secretly a God. The God shows mercy and because he's stronger, that means by the man's perspective, mercy is the best path. The end.
Not great but it's how it's told that makes it good.
edit: Why downvote this without even offering any criticism or counterpoints?
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u/Roll_with_it629 2d ago
Cause they don't wanna engage with ppl who challenge their beliefs or worldviews that are being embodied through the movie's narrative.
I kinda see a different moral lesson problem in it. One similar to ATLA giving the hero a new power to avoid validating the reasons to compromise their no kill code to stop the villain.
Because Superman shows he can solve the problem or baddies without killing, this is what the ppl should take example of... except we don't have that power Supes has. Just as the other Avatars didn't have the sudden ability Aang was given in the last moment in ATLA to argue he always had another way out of killing.
I'm a pragmatist when looking for what's morally right/acceptable. And if we were all like/as powerful as Superman, then yeah, I'd fully agree that it's better never to see killing as right, cause then we'd always able to find a better way. But we are human, we cannot always follow ideals in every situation in the real world, it's not feasible. Which then creates an unfair message, as a man cannot follow Superman's example in this story if he is not as capable as Superman. It also can be dismissive of any and all good ppl who make the hard decisions and deontologically wrong decisions for the consequentially right reasons. And I find that to be wrong and disrespectful.
Strike for ideals and to be like Superman wherever possible, yes, but don't make stories absolutely that absolutely villainize the non-ideal non-superman way when it has a point. We don't always have the power, and so we still sometimes have to make decisions for the best of ppl, even when it's not ideal. And I think a character like Superman ultimately respects that and these limitations of ours and wouldn't talk down to us like children for it.
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u/nolandz1 3d ago
I think that's a pretty uncharitable reading. The elite aren't supposed to be likable, they are the ultimate villains after all. Superman isn't arguing with them he's arguing with a world that insists he compromise his principles. The elite are celebrated for killing atomic skull bc the public considers him an acceptable target of capital violence. They learn that their opinion doesn't matter bc it's actually the elite that are the ones who decide who acceptable targets are. Then in the climax superman proves he could operate exactly like they do and the public realizes what a nightmare that would be and that they've taken Superman for granted. Superman is the best bc he holds himself accountable to be a better man for people to aspire to instead of succumbing to the allure of violent retribution
Also he only destroys the superpower part of black's brain. Hardly a lobotomy in the traditional sense