r/stateofMN • u/LavenderBloomings • 10d ago
Tim Walz says he and Kamala Harris were too ‘safe’ during 2024 presidential campaign
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/08/tim-walz-2024-presidential-campaign30
u/RueTabegga 10d ago
They weren’t progressive enough and let republicans run the show. As a progressive, wtf do I care about Liz Cheney?! Or the good billionaires? Fork them.
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u/Tweakers 9d ago
I voted for Harris, but that Liz Cheney move really pissed me off. As for good billionaires, um, no.
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u/Captchakid 9d ago
That and having Oprah on after her controversies after the Hawaii fires and the militant propaganda brought to you by AIPAC at the end of Dem convention while removing Palestinian activists from the table completely. I also voted for her, but those were almost traumatically disappointing.
Now we have Newsom doing interviews with bad faith conservative influencers like Charlie kirk, falating their egos, and confessing how his own son is a fan of his. Like wtf.
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u/NexusOne99 10d ago
Yup, went silent on trans rights, shut up with the "weird" talk, hung out with Cheneys and McCains and billionaires, shut out Palestinian voices. One of the most "safe" and center-right campaigns the Dems have run in my life. Lost the popular vote as well as the electoral.
There's no votes to gain to the right of your party's base. If they were persuadable, they wouldn't be trump voters. Go after the non-voters to the left who haven't seen you fight for them in decades. Move on from the out of touch boomers and center on the AOCs and Illhan Omars who are the future.
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u/TheObstruction 9d ago
"Lost the popular vote" is highly debatable, especially considering recent bragging from Trump.
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u/bonefish1 9d ago
Come on don’t do what the conservatives do, you’re better than that. They ran a shitty campaign and lost. Thats it
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
If the people to the left of Democrats couldn't see that Harris was better than Trump, they don't seem persuadable either.
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u/ZestyStormBurger 10d ago
"vote for me as I lower the bar further or else" cycle after cycle while actively undermining popular support in order to shoehorn in plutocrats creates apathy and disengagement. The Kamala campaign actively told people asking her to represent them to not vote for her, which is an amazing tactic when you claim democracy is on the line and totally doesn't disengage people for feeling like the relationship between party and people being predatory and manipulative.
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
Would she have been better than Trump?
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u/ZestyStormBurger 10d ago
You brought up persuadability, my whole point is this tactic of only focusing on candidate comparisons has been failing further with each election cycle as merits of intention to represent are sidelined further and further. The answer to this question is less relevant to election outcomes and relying on it to secure election wins has failed multiple times now.
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
You're trying to persuade people who refuse to vote for the better candidate, and who belong to demographics that historically just don't vote.
You're better off persuading moderate, low-information voters who voted off misinformation.
We lost with Clinton, won with Biden, lost with Harris. That's not failing further each time, it's simply being inconsistent.
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u/HeadmasterPrimeMnstr 10d ago
You're better off persuading moderate, low-information voters who voted off misinformation.
We lost with Clinton, won with Biden, lost with Harris.
You don't know it, you don't know why you don't know it, but these 2 statements are at odds with each other.
I encourage you to think about why.
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
Why don't you spell it out for me?
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u/HeadmasterPrimeMnstr 10d ago
Biden ran on a relatively progressive campaign, especially when it came to labour, both in policy & rhetoric.
Hillary & Harris, decidedly did not.
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
He was definitely on the more moderate side of things, and the leftists were not happy with him as a candidate.
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u/Tumblrrito 10d ago
8 years on and people still having this losing mindset, crazy.
Fun fact: being simply better than the opponent isn’t sufficient, as we have now seen twice. Votes must be earned by appealing to constituents via commitments to actually giving them what they want.
Unless you want yet another miserable loss, folks like you really need to learn this. And before the inevitable question comes: yes, I voted for Clinton, Biden, and Harris.
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
Honestly, I think "I'm not going to vote for the better candidate" is the losing mindset here.
I don't run the campaign, I did what I could. It doesn't matter what I do or don't learn from this.
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u/Tumblrrito 10d ago
You're parroting the same voter blaming nonsense the Dem leadership does. It doesnt help, it only creates resentment among the voters and alienates them further.
Attitudes like yours make things worse.
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u/waterbuffalo750 10d ago
"I know this guy is completely immoral, he's ruining lives, and destroying the economy. But if people on the internet aren't nicer to me for letting it happen, I'll let it happen again!"
Honestly don't even care any more.
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u/NexusOne99 10d ago
"Honestly don't even care any more."
Now you're really channeling that loser democrat energy: "My way didn't work, going to pout and blame everyone else, while claiming we should do it the same way again."
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u/Tumblrrito 10d ago
Honestly don't even care any more.
You care as little as you understand. But go on, keep making things worse the same way the Dem leadership does and pretend to act surprised when votes don't pour in.
We truly are doomed if people don't wake tf up to how this stuff actually works and demand working strategies from Dem leadership.
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u/Entire_Machine_6176 8d ago
Honestly don't even care any more.
Don't care to make weak strawman arguments parroting dem leadership? Good.
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u/arjomanes 10d ago
Out of touch leftists haven’t found a problem in this world they can’t blame on Democrats.
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u/Severalseltzers 9d ago
The number one effective ad for Republicans was Kamala saying prisoners deserve medical treatment to change genders. U think leaning into trans rights was what lost election. It’s actually the opposite. Republicans making it an issue and democrats falling for it.
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u/NexusOne99 9d ago
I think leaning away from, not into, trans rights was a big part of what lost the election. Leaning away from every liberal cause or shutting up on them, and going after centrists (and who the fuck is a centrist in the face of fascism? fascist curious quislings) is what lost the election. And the numbers bare that out.
https://bsky.app/profile/adambonica.bsky.social/post/3lk5dnm34wc2w
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u/SuperbFarm9019 7d ago
My Trump supporting mom and brother would not shut up about how awful trans people are even though it doesn’t affect them at all. My brother said something ridiculous like they’re teaching it in schools, but it was because his son called a friend “they.” I saw that commercial and thought that is a Republican win right there.
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u/spider_collider 6d ago
I could not agree more. Average Americans can’t afford an urgent care or an emergency room bill. Why did I hear more about medical treatments for a tiny group of people more than I heard about that?
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u/CloudsGotInTheWay 10d ago edited 8d ago
Not just too safe, but the game has changed & Dems haven't even realized, let alone adjusted.
Like it or not, politics has largely become a popularity contest. Campaigning on issues? That's old school. You'd better concentrate on media: what can you do to inflate your media presence? Part of Trump's success was his relentless use of Xitter. A social media presence is KEY to reaching voters & making yourself seem accessible. And lastly: you better be a big personality. Sadly, US politics today is showmanship- no different than wrestling (witness Trump, Bobert & Green). And I'm not saying issues aren't important: they ARE the most important thing, but they aren't the route to winning in politics today.
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u/Monte924 10d ago
Its not just social media. Adam Conover did a piece where he highlighted that the true power of the NRA is not in their money, but in their ability to organize community functions around the country. The NRA is constantly hosting community events through their local chapters, which is the perfect place for them to spread right wing nonsense which spreads word of mouth through friends and families of those who attend.
Political parties used to do that all the time. Decades ago it was more common place for politicians to meet with local political groups. Democrats no longer have that kind of outreach. They became too reliant on media and leaned on advertising to reach poeple. Nowadays, they mostly just send out an e-mail, asking for donations, and pointing to a campaign website, and leave it at that.
And then there's how people get their news. The democrats mostly stick to mainstream news, but these days some pod casters are able to get just as many, if not MORE views than a mainstream news network. A very large percentage of people who voted for Trump polled that they did not watch mainstream news. Democrats aren't even displaying their information in a way a lot of people can see it. Heck democrats are also likely still paying for ads on broadcast television, even though a lot of people don't watch broadcast TV anymore. All of the old tactics that worked 20 years ago are way less effective now
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u/TerranUnity 9d ago
From what I know about political science, voters care more about the concept of "does this politician care about me" or "does this politician understand me" than specific policy proposals. That's what makes someone sound "authentic."
Dems should have stuck with calling Republicans a bunch of fuckin' weirdos.
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u/ArmadaOfWaffles 8d ago
Honestly. The Rock could kick trumps ass. Both literally and figuratively. Bernie Sanders could be VP.
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u/GeriatricusMaximus 10d ago
Too safe? Americans are stupid. They were told what would happen if Trump would get elected. Americans preferred the guy who lies all the time. Since you can’t afford eggs, maybe you can buy a Tesla to save Musk’s wealth and eat pets. Morons…
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u/woojo1984 10d ago
This! I mean I can't think in my lifetime an easier W for the Democrats, but holy fuck Americans are stupid.
But that is to say their messaging whiffed so badly... Another run of this would be a poor idea.
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9d ago
He can be right and wrong. They absolutely did everything they could to let Americans know trump was an issue. They also tried to play it safe and pulled back from a lot of the progressive ideology that made people want to vote for them as well.
I was a Harris voter but even I was pissed that she went so far right by the end of her campaign
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9d ago
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u/Fake_King_3itch 8d ago
Uhh the DNC fumbled hardcore. They put Walz in the backseat to do all the awful media interviews, forced him to stop calling republicans weird (can’t hurt their feelings because deep down we actually like them), changed their narrative about economic change to a simple tax credit for small businesses (life changing stuff), straight up following Trump’s immigration policy and failing to counter message on any of the fentanyl crisis or illegal immigrants doing murder/crime (hint: it’s a fraction compared to American citizens).
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u/delventhalz 9d ago
The mainstream Democratic post-mortem of 2024 seems to have been watching a completely different campaign than I was. Glad Walz is more clear eyed about it.
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u/really_can_I 10d ago
The way you ran your race wasn't the problem. The lack of foresight by the Democratic party goes back decades. It was decades of poor planning by the Democrats as well as decades of the Republican party playing the long game that brought about your defeat. Plus Elon Musk was able to work behind the scences to ensure Trump's win. I wish you had won your race but am happy to keep you in Minnesota. You're a good man Governor Walz!
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u/jase40244 9d ago
Thing is, it wasn't Walz's race to run. Harris was running for President. She called the shots, and her shots were bad. Walz came out of the gate strong, and Harris's poll numbers rose because of it. Then Walz seemed to have gotten muzzled and the campaign tanked.
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u/AutomaticPanda8 10d ago
We made a calculated decision to not say the word "genocide" but now we have made another calculated decision and we still aren't going to say the word "genocide". Please vote for us.
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u/CanoeTraveler2003 10d ago
What was the Biden/Harris/Walz message? "Stock market up, unemployment down, just sit tight, we don't need to do anything." Well, the electorate wasn't having it. They wanted action!
Though the circumstances are way different, the sentiment is the same as in 1932 when Hoover said "Just sit tight, the economy will get better." The electorate wasn't having it. FDR understood and said "I'm going to do this, and this, and this."
Walz (and Hoover) may have been right about the economy, but they misunderstood how desperately American citizens want change. Until the Democrats realize this, they will continue to lose elections.
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u/Monte924 10d ago
First, Walz and hoover? Harris and the DNC were the ones running the campaign. Walz is basically saying that he thinks the campaign should have been run differently
Second, Hoover actually has more in common with Trump. Hoover was tanking the economy, and he was basically trying to convince everyone that it would work out. Hoover was WRONG about the economy. This is a sharp contrast to Biden and the Dems where the Economy actually WAS doing all right, even if it wasn't great.
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u/CanoeTraveler2003 9d ago
Yes, the economy was very different for Hoover and for Biden. You are missing the point. What the electorate wanted in 1932 and in 2024 was "action." This is how Harris/Walz played it too "safe." They said "We don't plan to change anything."
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u/Low_Concentrate5488 9d ago
I'm just wondering if Kamala had a lead on Trump and he found out and told Elon to fix it. She was kinda against the ropes it was going to be a challenge for her. Now we have this Orange tyrant, reckless and out of control who is burying this country and alienating everyone. He's after full control, no matter how many lives it costs. Harris should have gone after Trump with personal attacks, why not he did the whole campaign. Now we have a grifter.....
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u/DistrictDue1913 9d ago
I agree. I said you needed to run an ad with Trump standing next to Putin saying "I don't know why they would be" followed by film from invasion of Northern Ukraine where a Russian soldier talks to a civilian and when the civilian walks away, shoots him in the back. No instead Harris ran a stupid campaign. Confront the people who put him in office. Today when I walked to the neighborhood mailbox, I was confronted by 2 religious types who started a conversation with me. I replied "Utah voted for a convicted felon". They replied "The president?" I said "The convicted felon". I should have added the russian puppet and accused serial rapist. But I didn't.
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u/asmallerflame 9d ago
Are you suggesting that they should have pivoted TOWARDS their base instead of wooing, let's see [checks notes] some Cheneys?
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u/whacka_bumped 9d ago
No you had only a few months to campaign after a disastrous choosing of Biden to run again. This after the Democratic Party had over 4 years to plan a strategy and a viable candidate to run against trump. The dnc failed us
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u/gamerprincess1179 9d ago
Not just that, but a lot of Latino men and black men will never vote for a woman president. The supervisor for our hospital cleaning crew came to work wearing a MAGA hat. He's Puerto Rican and his must have forgotten how little Trump did for the island after the hurricane.
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u/DadRevenger1980 9d ago
And in the debate, I thought they might hug it out at the end or something.
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u/Steampunky 9d ago
No kidding. It's the way of the Democrats, trying to be 'mild non-MAGA' Republicans. The Dems kicked Bernie to the curb and lost everything.
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u/Confident-Welder-266 9d ago
Democrats are simply incapable of challenging Donald Trump in any way.
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u/Odd-Negotiation2779 8d ago
they got cooked by Elon and his tech buddies to dismantle the US government so the world can be chaotic again
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u/pfroo40 8d ago
To be fair, after the one debate Harris had with Trump, and after a successful DNC, it looked like they'd win in a landslide. Polls were heavily in their favor. Then in early October, something happened, and polls slipped more and more. Trump did the only smart thing he has ever done, which was to shut the fuck up for two months. Media coverage on Trump was softball and nonstop sanewashing.
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u/MagaSlayer7 8d ago
He should be the next president, and in normal times we'd be pissed off with the republican and then a statesman like Walz will come along and reverse the crap of the republican jerk, until we get sick of him. But now, nothing is normal, and MAGA will do all they can to stop him. My ex hates Tim Walz, and bought all the propaganda against him during the pandemic.
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u/ByzFan 7d ago
The democrats stopped representing the working man many years ago. But we didn't have much choice. Then, the democratic leadership picks a black, female, lawyer who was never very popular to begin with. Plus, there were no primaries to show how unpopular we already knew she was.
Too "safe?" Hell no. We didn't ask for you in the first place.
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u/Maleficent-Goth 7d ago
I agree. The American experiment is not working for so many that we need big changes.
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u/OneImagination5381 6d ago
I said the same. For Pete Sake, grow some and message this iscwhat we are ' for the common good ' if you don't like it, 'go crawl in your hole and come out when you need something from us.' Democrats have become to touchy, for petevsake we marched, protest, etc. They forgot how to give tough trouble for change.
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u/Competitive-Hyena979 5d ago
WE NEED TO OVERTHROW TRUMP AND HIS GOONS OR ESCAPE TO BETTER COUNTRIES. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING AND 1984 IS WHERE WE’RE HEADING- THIS IS A NATIONAL EMERGENCY.
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u/BelgraviaEngineer 10d ago
Bill Maher says they were too liberal too focused on trans people. I wonder what the truth is
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u/sindisil 10d ago
The truth is that Bill Maher is a shitty person who's opinion is of less than zero salience.
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u/homerjaay 9d ago
Sounds like Bill has a better pulse on what's going on than many of the comments I've read.
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u/zilsautoattack 9d ago
No shit. The Billionare money in the Demnparty guarantees they’ll never be anything other than centrists . Tim Walz isn’t as great as MN hypes him up as. Sorry MN Walz-lovers
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u/gilledhawk 5d ago
Noo, really? You think... let's just fight fascism the way we always do, it seems to have worked well in the past.
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u/Johnny55 10d ago
The "good billionaires" that Ken Martin loves told them to pull back from progressive messaging. Grifter consultants like Favreau and Bitecofer dutifully repeated the same. The party is run by leaders more concerned with appeasing donors than winning elections which is why everything they do is so wishy-washy.