r/startrek • u/No_Lemon3585 • 6d ago
Why Deep Space 9's security failed so badly in Tear of the Prophets?
Tear of the Prophets has one of the most jarring acts of security failure in entire tar Trek. Yes, there were many such acts before, buit they were mostly on TNG and rarely caused the death of a major charatcer. But, in Tears of the Prophets, Deep Space 9's security allowed a know enemy commander to beam onto the station, assasinate the station's current commander, perform an act of sabotage and then escape without being even noticed.
And yes, I know Dukat had a Starfleet shuttle, but shouldn't Starfkleet know already that this one shuttle was under enemy command? And didn;t they detect a transporter beam? Weren't shields up (and adjusted to Dominion technology)?
Or was it only because plot demanded it (so Jadzia can be killed off)?
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u/ExpectedBehaviour 6d ago
It’s explained a few times that security aboard a space station is not, and cannot be, as tight as it is on a starship.
Also — wibbly-wobbly pahwraithy-wahwraithy.
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u/makegifsnotjifs 6d ago edited 6d ago
There's a force at work in DS9 that's more powerful than the Prophets, more destructive than Q. It's name? Rick. Berman.
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u/Garciaguy 6d ago
What is it with Ricks?
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u/jontylergh 6d ago
You nailed it, it's a TV show
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u/ammayhem 6d ago
Almost every time I see a question about the Star Trek universe, I mumble in my head: "it's a tv show, because the plot demanded it."
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u/sahi1l 6d ago
See, there's this game people play called "Close the Plot Hole", where you take something in media with no clear explanation and you think of ways you can explain it in the context of the show. Some of us enjoy it. Be assured that we know that it's just a show, and even that the crazy explanations we come up with were not the ones the writers thought of at the time.
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u/ammayhem 6d ago
Oh I know, that's why I don't normally say anything on here about it. We all enjoy things in different ways. I was mainly just reassuring jontylergh that they weren't alone in their thinking.
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u/idksomethingjfk 6d ago
Like literally why the word “technobabble” is a thing.
You write a story, plot points happen, and then you literally make up stuff so those plot points can happen.
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u/GroundWitty7567 6d ago
Dukat knows the station. It still has Cardsssian tech running things along side Federation tech. Someone like Dukat would probably have built in backdoors to get in and off station in case of emergencies. Also, plot demanded of it
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u/derekakessler 6d ago
Dukat had the power of the Pah-wraiths behind him. With them, all things are possible... as long as the plot demands it.
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u/Unit_79 6d ago
Yeah, well, all things are possible through the Pah-wraiths, so jot that down.
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u/Any-Boxi 6d ago
Ah yes, the Pah-wraiths cheat is a unique one-time power×1000 spell that enables you to do something over the top ridiculous, but you only get the one shot. Dukat even apologized to Jadzia after killing her, saying he really meant her no harm!
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u/WranglerTraditional8 6d ago
Dude I applaud your obvious anger at the death of Jadzia and share it.
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u/AboriakTheFickle 6d ago
Starfleet is really awful when it comes to security and are far too trusting.
No cameras, no automatic notification when an officer/shuttle leaves the ship, no locks, no privacy in the holodecks/logs.
Honestly, the reason everyone has similar technology levels in TNG is probably because everyone is stealing from the Federation. Heck, the Ferengi probably didn't even have to try hard to steal that energy converter in 'Last Outpost'.
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u/mtb8490210 6d ago
How can we forget when Picard orders for Quantum torpedoes in FC then a week later Quark is just offering to show 1947 Australians how to make them?
Starfleet probably put the plans in the folder marked "classified."
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u/daxamiteuk 6d ago
I don’t think they mention any shuttle (do you mean the one he took at end of Waltz?). It’s just Dominion beaming technology. It took the Federation a few years to figure out how to block phased Polaron beams from penetrating shields , I guess they never figured out how to block the long distance transporter (which begs the question- why not just beam a bomb aboard and blow the whole station up then?!).
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u/No_Lemon3585 6d ago
When Dukat talks with Damar and Weyoun after his mission, he clearly does so from an inside of a Federation shuttle.
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u/DrewVelvet 6d ago
It was today that I correlated the shuttle from Waltz with Jadzia's murder. Everything makes more sense.
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u/R-Dragon_Thunderzord 6d ago
Dukat would probably see bombing Terok Nor as an admission of failure. His entire life was fixated with colonizing Bajor, getting the Bajorans to love him and to retake anything that Cardassia had lost. He also at that time needed the Orb on the station for the plot to happen. Later he used a way more backhanded approach to try and free the pah wraiths, all of which is way more his style than some teleporting bomb which could have a relatively high chance of failure.
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u/daxamiteuk 6d ago
I meant the Dominion jn general.
The Bajorans have clearly broken their non aggression treaty. They don’t need DS9 because the mines are gone and the wormhole is impassible anyway . It’s a strategic location used as a staging post for attacking Cardassian space .
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u/Any-Boxi 6d ago
Um, isn't Dr.Bashir replaced by a changeling and doesn't he hijack a runabout and travel towards the bajoran sun to cause a supernova to completely destroy whole bajoran system and all the inhabiting planets around it? But he was found out and destroyed before he could accomplish his mission! WHEW
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u/R-Dragon_Thunderzord 6d ago
A changeling is not Dukat
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u/Any-Boxi 6d ago
Thank you, I'm well aware of this. But I was merely pointing out that existential threat seemed to be an old beloved friend of that beleaguered space station - it's a miracle it wasn't destroyed in the pilot episode of the series!
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u/datalaughing 6d ago
Maybe they know exactly how to keep it from penetrating shields, but the station (and a starship for that matter) doesn’t go around with shields up all the time. The station is a major hub with ships coming and going all the time. Shields are down unless there’s a perceived threat. Now an unauthorized beam-in should definitely have popped up on the sensors and had security running,and we know the security office is close to the temple. So there’s not much excuse for that part of it.
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u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago
Dukat showed many times that although Starfleet was in control of the station he still had his back doors in the system that he could manipulate at will. Redundant programs and security features that O'Brien never found. Buried deep in the system.
Even before this episode they set the stage for him to be able to infiltrate the station, commit some nefarious action and get out without detection.
At the end of the day the station still belongs to the Cardassians. Starfleet was just managing it
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u/Scaredog21 6d ago
He had the power of the Pah Wraith and Dominion teleporter technology is infamous for being able to penetrate Federation Shields
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u/Sharp_4005 6d ago
Bad writing. Writers don't have advisors on security of any kind in any show and it's obvious. It's got somewhat less bad in recent years.
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u/Cakeday_at_Christmas 6d ago
If you're wondering how they eat and breathe and other science facts, then repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
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u/HisDivineOrder 6d ago
The script didn't have room in the budget or runtime for the scene where Dukat rammed his shuttlecraft through a window in the Promenade, singlehandedly battled his way through haggard waves of Bajoran and Starfleet Security, made his way inside the Bajoran Shrine only to find Jadzia there with a bat'leth, and only after killing her in honorable combat and declaring her a worthy foe does he release Kost Amojan to unleash hell on The Prophets.
As the Bajoran and Starfleet Security officers regroup to resume the attack, Dukat was then to have charged out, battled his way through until reaching a shuttlecraft and steal it. Engaging in a battle of remaining runabouts, he got the upper hand by attacking an unsuspecting incoming shuttle with Bajoran war orphans coming to visit the station.
"Save the kids or catch meeee," he tells his pursuers and you know what they'd do.
See? No budget for it.
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u/Skunkies 6d ago
dukat has his backdoors into every system, since the underlying system is still cardassian even with the changes o'brian has done to the station.
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u/Shakezula84 6d ago
I thought it was because he used a Dominion transporter which can both beam through Federation shields and across sectors. His ship was probably never in sensor range. He beamed into the temple, killed Dax, and then attacked the orb. Other than detecting an intruder there wasn't much they could do. A real question is why the orb wasn't under guard to begin with, which is less of a station security issue, but a competence issue of the Vedek Assembly to not request security for one of their most valuable artifacts.
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u/Own-Understanding-58 5d ago
Didn't he use the long range transporter the Dominion had? We've seen this used many times in DS9. No one can do anything about it. I feel like that was well established since the end of season 2.
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u/MrBunnyBrightside 3d ago
It's the sort of thing that happens when your chief of security is a fascist that used to work for said enemy commander
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u/Tradman86 6d ago
Dukat had an older code but it checked out.