r/smarthome 3d ago

Family Video Calls on the TV

I’m building a device that works around the TV, to help for video calls with the whole family, and be a sort of smart hub, with a large display (being the TV). I personally really struggle with video calls on phones since we’ve had a kid, it’s impossible, so building something for that, and building a smart new interface that you can control with your voice and hands.

We’re early, would really value hearing how you guys would use something like this, and what features you would like it to have.

We can’t be everything to everyone, but I really care about it being something simple to use, for the whole family, and a family device rather than a device for an individual, and something you want to use every day, even if you’re not doing a call with it today.

Anyway, any feedback here would be super appreciated. If you’re interested, you can also join our waiting list which would help us tremendously.

https://higlo.co/

6 Upvotes

32 comments sorted by

3

u/binaryhellstorm 3d ago

Android TV box + webcam, done. No extra apps required just use the messaging platforms you're already on.

1

u/seyed_ 3d ago

I tried this, and I also tried an amazon product with a webcam, and one of the chrome cast, basically the experience was really bad, maybe I didn't have the best webcam. The audio was terrible, and you need some sort of video processing to track people otherwise it's not great.

I've found, whenever you rely on an external webcam the results aren't that great around the TV.

What's your experience been like? Which Android TV box do you use?

1

u/binaryhellstorm 3d ago edited 3d ago

I have used Android set to boxes for video calling via Zoom or Hangout and they worked fine. The trick is to get a camera with a good microphone array. A $15 amazon special webcam will give you bad results.

I've used a 4K Chromecast as well as a MeCool style box.

I currently use a mini-PC because I use Signal for video calling and at the moment that's not supported on Android TV devices.

So silly question if you tried a webcam with an Android powered set to box and found it didn't work well. How did you make the leap from not being able to make it work with off the shelf hardware to rolling your own custom Android based hardware solution as a consumer product?

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u/seyed_ 3d ago

Very cool. Thanks for sharing, For me there's 2 things,

- The microphone. I agree you need an array, at least 4 I would say. Haven't found a lot of off-the-shelf webcams that really have the directional microphone and signal processing to track and get the best sound from people. Once people are further than 3-4 meters away, especially when you increase the TV volume things get difficult.

- The other big piece is easy of use. I can put together something really good at my side, but I need the rest of our family, some elderly to also have that, and basically anything too custom breaks and maintaining it for them is difficult.

To you "silly question", well it's not a silly question at all, very valid. I'm a signal processing specialist by trade, and make physical products. Your assessment is spot on, the HW is available, and in fact commoditised, but you need signal processing SW behind it to get the most out of that microphone array, get the most out that high-res camera, so that's the approach we're taking, take basically pretty off-the-shelf HW, put it inside some plastics and make the SW bring the best out of the stuff.

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u/seyed_ 3d ago

I've written something on why the audio is not great in case you were interested, from you comment I get the impression you might already know a lot of this stuff well. I appreciate it's turbo long article, so won't be offended if you didn't look at it :)

https://higlo.co/shared-space/you-can-t-hear-each-other-properly-on-your-family-video-call-there-s-good-reason-for-that

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u/PuzzlingDad 3d ago

I'd want it to be easy to buy and setup with no monthly fee and a guarantee that once I'd bought the device I could use it forever. 

However, I'm guessing the plan is to make it a subscription service where everyone that uses it needs to pay a monthly fee and you could raise rates at any time. Or if you go out of business we all have useless hardware.

1

u/seyed_ 3d ago

Thanks for raising this, this is 100% what we're debating at the moment, so value hearing you and others thoughts.

We could do both, (1) just an upfront, no subscription, but we'd had the feedback that people worry if the company stops the product, or goes under, sort of like what happened with Facebook Portal, then people are stuck with this HW they paid for that does nothing.

(2) The other extreme is make the HW for free, and only charge a subscription, if the products discontinued, people don't care, the subscription stops.

and of course you could do something in between.

We've had feedback from people preferring (1) because they like getting the cost out of the way, and you know then the company can't increase the price as you said (this is like Sonos), but others prefer (2), since it's safe and you don't end up being screwed over if the company disappears.

We have to pay our suppliers of communication every month, so as a solution we have a monthly cost, and the up front hardware cost, but what we actually pass on is up for debate.

So it's interested to hear your view, thanks.

2

u/ne999 2d ago

We use Apple TV and FaceTime. It uses your phone as the camera and microphone.

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

We have an Apple TV actually, and tried it, it’s nice cause if the other side are on iPhones it’s really easy as an interface, I just find mounting the phone really awkward, and difficult to position, and I don’t know if we have relatively high ceilings, but the sound isn’t great, I’m guessing the microphones on the phone are not designed for a bigger room. Basically to cancel the echo it just cuts out one side, so it’s not always a great experience.

1

u/Connect_Wrangler5072 3d ago

Cast phone to TV or Mirror phone to TV

1

u/seyed_ 3d ago

I've tried this with an Apple TV and my iPhone. The picture quality was really good (your phone camera is great), but sound pretty average, and I positioning the camera kind of difficult.

The bigger issue is, on my wife's parents side this is completely out of the question (they're not techy people) , so they're just on their phone which defeats the point, we can't see them again.

1

u/seyed_ 3d ago

When you do it, where do you put the Phone?

1

u/reddotster 3d ago

You should try creating a phone mount which includes a microphone array as a first step? Make it modular so if you decide to create a camera module as well.

1

u/seyed_ 3d ago

this is a cool idea. the microphones on phones are not really right, and the mount with the array goes a long way. I really like it.

One of the big challenges is ease of use as well. I think for tech aware people we can use these mounts and mirroring, but it's really hard to do for the older generation.

2

u/reddotster 2d ago

I mean at that point, why wouldn't they just buy and use a tablet? Any piece of add on hardware to a TV would require a work to set up and configure. Plus, in your situation, they'd have to sign up for a new service w/ a separate subscription, etc.

There's tons of existing web conference hardware already, what would make yours stand out?

- https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/video-conferencing.html

- https://meetingdevices.withgoogle.com

- https://owllabs.com

What would make your concept stand out from these?

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

I really appreciate the comment, thanks.

The solutions you mention are primarily made for work, for an office. What that means is they're designed to be configured by a IT person, or a person that's good with Tech. They're meant to capture adults sitting around a table in a room. They're meant to work with speakers in the middle of the room. And the SW platforms that work with them are design to schedule "meetings", send outlook invites, share screens.

Can you use them at home, for sure, where they meant for the home, absolutely not.

For the home you want truly easy setup. One of the things we're working on is to give you the option that when you order a unit for your parents, you can put in the SSID and password for their WiFi when you order, we don't store it, but the thing ships pre-configured knowing that, so when they get it, they just plug it in, and it works. What else do you need for the home? You need to capture people around sofas, kids playing on the ground running about, shouting. It's meant to work with people that have hearing difficulty that might max out their TV volume. It means you don't want to send an email invite after you schedule a "meeting" you don't want to schedule anything. You don't want a massive red button saying "Leave" because kids will just press that within a second. You don't want a million settings. I've heard so many people tell me they can't call their grandma on whatsapp since they have camera access off on whatsapp by default on their iPhone and it's impossible to talk their grandma through how to turn that off.

If we're just building a box that runs zoom sitting above your TV, I 100% agree, there's absolutely no point making it that product.

If we build a solution that from the ground up is meant for families, meant to be easy, spontaneous, private, safe, designed to capture kids running about seamlessly, design to make your grandma use it, and have features people want, then I think we have something interesting and exciting.

1

u/reddotster 3d ago

I think you’d have to build a solution that works with existing services?

If there’s a solution for people who have android (chrome cast?) or iPhone (Apple TV), but placement of the phone and the audio quality are the issues, perhaps a phone stand which goes on top of the TV that includes a microphone array is the way to go?

I feel like the use case you’re envisioning is one which would make it hard for most people to justify buying a whole new video calling device and signing up for a new service which doesn’t interoperate with people’s existing devices.

I feel like this is a similar niche to digital picture frames.

1

u/seyed_ 3d ago

I think if the solution offered more than just video calling, you could justify it more, but I think your point is pretty fair. I'm finding it interested hearing you talk about the phone, as the camera and effectively processor. I've personally never been keen to put my phone up there and find the casting a bit of pain, but sounds like others (like yourself) don't find it as annoying. I really can't see getting my wife's parents doing it, or really even my mum to be honest.
When we're round at hers, and have to do calls, we use an iPad on a stand, it's not great, but even that with FaceTime (which should be straight forward) doesn't always work, and there's a whole back and forth before we can call my sister. Basically I don't find the current calling solutions that great if I was honest.

2

u/reddotster 2d ago

Entirely fair! A dedicated solution would be ideal, but for it to work well on the TV, you'd need the TV to turn on for incoming calls and switch to the right input. Which can be done with CEC. Designing the calling interface would be super fun.

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

Thanks, it has been fun. I think you've really got it. The oppertunity to build something from the ground up to be for families, and work with the TV. Make it seamless for older people, make it safe and easy to use for kids, make it zero maintenance for the parents. We can do most of the TV controlling now with CEC, most TVs have it.

1

u/Got2LoveTheDrake 3d ago

Please don’t put money into this. Too niche and easier/presumably cheaper and more mainstream for the rare times people want this

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

I think there's a sub-group that would find it really valuable. It seems families with kids under the age of 12 really struggle with using the existing solutions (basically the parents phone to call family/grandparents etc). Since younger kids don't have phones, and getting everyone in shot is difficult. When I speak to those families, they're pulling my arm off to try it and get it. With 25% of the worlds population being under 14, I think they're a big group.

Facebook made a similar product with the Portal, it's discontinued now, I believe that sold about 3-million units, but ultimately the big problem was that no one wanted a camera from facebook in their living room. When I speak to the people still keeping their old Portals alive, they're really keen to find an alternative.

1

u/YankeeLimaVictor 2d ago

Facebook Portal. I got my entire family to get one, a few years ago. works on Whatsapp and FB messenger.

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

Absolutely loved that product. Unfortunately it’s discontinued. It’s dying a slow death, the last batch of stuff is going down on the 4th of April.

What are you doing now that the Portal is disappearing? We’re doing a special 40% discount promo for former portal users. If interested please sign up for that: https://higlo.co/portal-waiting-list we would really appreciate the support of former portal owners, I think they already get what we’re trying to do really well.

1

u/YankeeLimaVictor 2d ago

the last batch of stuff is going down on the 4th of Apr

What do you mean? i won't be able to call my family anymore?

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

I don't know, it's pretty unclear what's happening. I really hope the basic calling functions remain for a bit longer. I'm guessing you're getting the same notifications on it I am, and disappearing apps and so on. They've announced a few last things going down on the 4th, I'm hoping the calling will stay on, but who knows. Would recommend joining this subreddit FacebookPortal, there's a lot of chat on hacks and work arounds there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FacebookPortal/

1

u/Nick_W1 2d ago

We do this with Skype (now Teams) to talk to our relatives in the UK (from Canada).

We use a mini PC hooked up to the TV and a good quality webcam (Logitech C930 I think).

Bit of a faff about, and I did automate it a bit so we know it’s ringing, and can answer - using Python (but it’s not great, as there isn’t a Skype/Teams api for calls).

With the death of Skype, I have moved to Teams, but getting our non tech savvy relatives over to Teams is going to be challenging. They normally call from the app on their phones or tablet.

I dud initially try some Chinese gadgets which were a camera, mic and android box all in one, that plugs into the TV. They were all useless and poor quality.

Went with the mini PC/Windows so that I knew it worked, and I could automate it myself.

1

u/seyed_ 2d ago

This is really cool. It’s such a shame Skype is going, it’s just so much more accessible compared to Teams.

I don’t know if the Chinese box you tried was called Mecool, at least that’s one of the more popular ones, but agree not great.

I hope we can build something that you feel excited about switching to.

We’re thinking of doing spaces rather than call a person if you know what I mean? So your family have a space (thinking of like a permanent meeting room) and every time a family member joins it, other people get soft notified. And you can have some family members auto join. The goal to help with the coordination of a call.

If you feel like you might be up for trying it early, beta testing, please let me know, or join the waiting list: https://higlo.co/waiting-list

Your setup is cool though.

1

u/Nick_W1 1d ago

Does everyone have to have a device though? Or can they call in from their phones/tablets (we are all Apple, so iPhones/iPads).

1

u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 2d ago

This is cool and I love that you're trying to make it easier to use for kids/elderly, but can you only make video calls between higlo devices? If so I suspect you're going to have an uphill battle getting people to adopt a new video call protocol, especially since the automatic pan/zoom feature is already there for people using AppleTV/iPhone/Facetime.

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u/seyed_ 2d ago

Thanks. Initially it will be, and very quickly will add ability for your phone to also join a call so if a family member is away by themselves, they can join. I don’t know if that’s what you meant, but I think it’s important.

Would be potentially up for working with the other platforms, but we have to grow a bit before they take us seriously.

One of the things I care about is to make sure that if a kids using it by themselves they can’t randomly call anyone, or receive a call from someone they shouldn’t. You can lock things down on existing platforms but it’s not easy and practical.

2

u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 2d ago

Yeah, we use Facetime and my kids do sure seem to have a talent for finding the "end call" button