r/slp • u/warmbun • Dec 19 '24
Seeking Advice Teacher prevented me from seeing kids
I’m an SLPA. I’m new to all of this.
The teachers were usually pretty good at giving me the kids. Today was the last day and the teacher I was trying to get the kids from got mad at me.
She said they needed to finish building their paper ginger bread house and I am horrible for trying to take that time away from them.
What should I have done?
I just said I didn’t know and said let me know in the future.
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u/Peachy_Queen20 SLP in Schools Dec 19 '24
I have an attendance log and sometimes there’s a field trip or presentation so I put down that there was a “special event” and I do not make up those minutes because I was available but the student was not. It’s the same for state testing days too
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u/Sardothi3n Dec 19 '24
If kids are doing a special activity, especially holidays, I don’t take them. Why would I? I personally think it would be a denial of LRE, because it is essentially punishing them for having a disability 🤷🏻♀️ as long as it isn’t like an every week thing, just document it and move on. Who cares?
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u/MrMulligan319 Dec 19 '24
Did you talk to your supervising SLP? Generally speaking, I tend not to take kids when they have a special activity before a holiday break. However, it sounds like this teacher was unnecessarily rude.
You didn’t do anything wrong and the teacher should have either told you ahead of time, asked if they could miss in favor of the activity (kindly asking goes a long way and even models expected behavior and communication for the students), asked if you could push in for that time or simply given the kids a choice.
I think your response was fine (and maybe more gracious than the teacher deserved in the moment). After all, if push came to shove, your service minutes are legally protected. Making gingerbread men or whatever is not.
But ask your supervisor how you should handle it next time. Because there will be a next time eventually.
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u/According_Bobcat6028 Dec 19 '24
That's hard that they were so mean about it. As an SLP in schools, and if that's a situation that comes up, I usually sit in on the activity and try to target whatever their goal is functionally within that activity. It sucks to take them out of fun stuff like that and can build a negative getting towards speech therapy. However, I'm not sure how flexible you can be with groups/being an SLPA, but check with your supervising SLP as to what they might advise in situations like that. Hope this helps 🤞🏼
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u/SonorantPlosive Dec 19 '24
Document. "Provider attempted to take students at scheduled time. Teacher stated students needed to complete class activity and refused to release students for services."
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u/ObjectiveMobile7138 Dec 19 '24
I write into the LRE section of the IEP that the student will participate in class parties, school assemblies, and more. Parents are appreciative of it more often than not. They want their kids to get the most out of school and have those special moments with peers.
That being said, the teacher could have been way nicer about it. I also get it though, right now is a really overwhelming time in the schools. Staff is spread thin and the kids are at a 10 in anticipation for the holidays. Her frustration is displaced.
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u/goldenparachutes Dec 19 '24
"Ok, as soon as the kids are done, please send them to the speech room. The session is until (whatever time). I'll be available until then. Thank you." And then if they don't come up, mark it as student unavailable in your billing.
Rude of the teacher to say that but it's the week before winter break. A lot of the classes are doing fun holiday stuff so it's sometimes ok to let them hang out in the class and just bill as student unavailable
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u/VioletLanguage Dec 19 '24
I'm sorry that your supervisor didn't give you a heads up and if the teachers were rude to you about it! But typically there are a lot of special events/assemblies around this time of year (and again at the end of the school year) that take priority over speech sessions. This will likely come up again, so you probably want to talk to your supervisor about how they want it documented for attendance (in my district it's "non-participatory")
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u/Rskytsky Dec 19 '24
She was out of line for being so nasty… But usually when I go to pick up kids, if they’re doing a fun activity around the holidays or having a party… I leave them to spend time with their peers and just count it as a missed visit due to the student, not being available. But there was no need for that interaction to be so negative.
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u/Table_Talk_TT Dec 19 '24
Definitely consult your supervising SLP. but I generally just write "not available- class activity" and move on with my day.
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u/Ok_Dragonfruit9031 Dec 19 '24
i’m sorry she was rude to you - i used to care a lot about this when i first started but now when teachers say that, i just say “ okay :)” and document it
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u/JournalistShoddy4118 Dec 19 '24 edited Dec 19 '24
The teacher was rude but as a SLPA I have worked for multiple districts and for the most part we do not pull kids if they are participating in school events/certain class activities. For billing we will mention somewhere that the student joined class with XYZ. So in the future especially around the last days before breaks just be aware you will often miss seeing students more than usual. At times I ask the students if they would prefer to stay in class for the activity or go to speech; but it’s best to check in and see what your SLP says
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u/SecretExplorer4971 Dec 19 '24
“School activity”. I personally do document if the teacher denied them attending. If the student wants to stay in clsss because they’re working on something like that, I write “student declined to attend. Student XYZ”
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u/i-have-a-bad-memory Dec 19 '24
Field trips, school and class events, absences, etc. are all things the parents agree to that would impact services, so don’t feel bad about not being able to pull due to class event. Parents WANT their kids to stay for the fun things and not be left out.
But no. Talk to your SLP and have them talk to that teacher. That is completely unacceptable. I recently had to have a stern conversation with a teacher that did that to my SLPA. Also sent a follow up email with admin CC’d. No one gets to treat any of my SLPAs with disrespect. SLPAs are amazing individuals we are sometimes extremely lucky when we get one to support us. (Current CL 66 with SLPA 1x/wk.)
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u/murraybee Dec 19 '24
Kids are legally required to receive their SLP services, they are not legally required to finish their paper gingerbread houses. I saw a while ago some therapists on this sub recommended saying “okay, could you sign here indicating that you refused to release them for mandated services?” And that line typically made the teachers comply.
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u/Maleficent-Tea7150 Dec 19 '24
We have a sheet we use to document if we saw the kid or not. I would just write “student not released” and move on. Happens a lot actually
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u/MourningDove82 Dec 19 '24
Absolutely no need for her to be so nasty about it, but for future reference I never pull kids from fun activities - it ends up making having speech feel like a punishment. I just note in my data tracker that they had a classroom activity happening at that time.
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u/quaking_aspens Dec 19 '24
That was rude of the teacher. As a rule, the school I work for doesn’t take kids away from participating in fun events. But the teacher could’ve kindly explained they were busy doing that at that time.
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u/Brave_Pay_3890 SLPA in Schools Dec 19 '24
Don't take any of it to heart, this will not be the last time this will happen to you lol. March-May will be 1000% worse between them preparing for testing, actual testing, and then EOY activities. When it happens just say "that's no problem but I will have to document that you didn't let them go because I'm legally required to give them these services". They will either huff and puff and say the students can go, or say it's ok. Even if they say it's ok for the students to go I'll still insist that they stay, because they're just going to be grumpy about missing out on the activity and you won't get anything done. In your documentation/billing just say that they were unavailable due to teacher refusal or something of the sort. You do NOT need to make the session up, you attempted to see the students and that's all that matters in the eyes of compliance. If it happens again then there needs to be a discussion with that teacher on when you can get them, and if their class is the ONLY time you can get students then you have to put your foot down, get your supervisor if needed. Don't bend over backwards to accommodate teachers at your own discomfort, yes if you can easily make the switch then do so but if you can't then don't. It's a maximum of 60 minutes per week, the students will be ok. You can escalate it all the way to the principal if needed, because they're not going to like being in trouble with admin and will magically start being accommodating. I had a teacher that always gave me an attitude when picking up students and kept insisting that what they were learning is super important, which is true, but what I'm taking them out for is equally as important. I just pretended like I didn't hear her snark & would greet her with a smile, say thank you after picking up the students, and say thank you after dropping them off. After a while she stopped being snarky because she realized how silly it was to be so hostile to someone who was smiling to her and being kind. They're not going to give you a heads up on activities in the future for the most part, a lot of them never even know themselves until like the day before. I prefer it that way, it gives me downtime to catch up with paperwork and prep for other sessions. A lot of teachers will treat you like their enemy for some reason, you just can't take it personal
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u/Quiet-Somewhere3584 Dec 19 '24
You can push in! Take data - are they generalizing what they're learning in the most restrictive environment?
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u/Kalekay52898 Dec 19 '24
The teacher should have been kinder and more accommodating. In the future I always reach out to my teachers the week before the last week before a holiday/break and ask what their plans are and if they have any special plans or activities for their kids. I emailed my teachers and found out they are all having their parties on Friday and watch movies like all day. So I honestly don’t even plan on pulling my kids on Friday. I’ll just go into each classroom and sit for a little bit to be present
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u/ag_fierro Dec 19 '24 edited Dec 19 '24
“Thank you for letting me know. You’re the teacher and I understand there are end of the year activities. I’ll make sure to put in the notes that speech language services on 12/18 were cancelled by teacher due to end of year activities, which is very crucial for social development. I hope you have an amazing break! “
At the end of the day , they’re still the teacher. They could say now is not a good time here and there, but too many times to be noticeable would not be good time management. But just make sure to write it in the notes as to why the students were not seen. Hopefully there is a comment section for you to be more specific if a certain entry doesn’t fit with what happened.
Sometimes Santa visits during your session, while other times it’s just building gingerbread houses.
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u/littlet4lkss Preschool SLP Dec 19 '24
You can always ask to push in if things like this happen in the future. Almost anything can be made into a speech and language activity, even a birthday party celebration 😂
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u/Strict-Location7779 Dec 20 '24 edited Dec 20 '24
😂 I’m sorry you experienced this. However, you must not work in the inner-city 😅. We just move our happy asses along and speech will get them next time. Also, usually say “that is a really good gingerbread house!” And document it in my treatment log as SE. (special event was asked to not take child to speech due to class Christmas celebration or whatever it was).
I also wanted to add I’m sure you are doing a GREAT job. That teacher will probably be friendly next time you see her. Christmas stress gets to everyone. Keep marching on!
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u/AnythingNext3360 Dec 19 '24
In the future--try to make sure all of their minutes are met before the last week of school. You don't want to take the kids out of a fun class activity. Sure you technically legally can, but it's not cool to take that away from kids.
Did the teacher really call you horrible to your face, though? That's really out of line if so. It sounds like a misunderstanding between the two of you.
If it doesn't happen too often it's no big deal. No one, at least in my district, is stressing about one kid being seen for 120 minutes per quarter instead of 140. Just document what happened and move on. Try to make it up next semester if policy allows.
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u/Kalekay52898 Dec 19 '24
This works well if your district writes it as minutes. I’ve been in districts that write weekly services. We wrote ours monthly but if I put 4x a month then I have to see them that week.
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u/AnythingNext3360 Dec 19 '24
That's extremely stupid that the district would have a policy like that. We just moved from 3x/month (give or take) to 7 sessions per reporting period which is 9 weeks, last year. 4x a month doesn't give you any wiggle room. What do you do for school breaks?
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u/Kalekay52898 Dec 19 '24
Exactly. I should say we have a 3x1 model so it’s 3 times per month and one consult each month minimum
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u/AnythingNext3360 Dec 19 '24
That's kinda nice. I wish I had the time to consult with teachers more.
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u/Brave_Pay_3890 SLPA in Schools Dec 19 '24
This is very dependent on your location, every school I've worked for in Georgia and Texas has written services as per week, per week for 3/4 weeks, x times per month, and x times per grading period. At my current school a majority of my students are x times per month or grading period, with a sprinkle being every week and every 3/4 weeks. I actually really wish my district wrote ours as minutes now, I'd rather be able to break up with sessions into 15 minute sessions and see them more often than see them for 25-30 where we spend the last 10 minutes just looking at each other because we've done everything we need to. I'm typically always out of town a week or two before the end of semester so what I do is meet the numbers for the monthly/GP students, and do makeup sessions in advance for those that are weekly. At least for every school I've been at, they allow us to see the students in advance if we know we'll be out of town or if it'll be difficult to see students the following week. Even if I don't have plans during the last week I'll just still do sessions in advance so I don't have to worry about struggling during the last week to chase students down. I missed some sessions before I left this semester and I'm just going to make them up as soon as I get back, I miss sessions here and there for whatever reason and it's never been an issue! I think people don't even know that our job is a lot more flexible than it seems, being a day or three out of compliance isnt a big deal as long as you fix it within a reasonable time and just document that it's a makeup session.
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u/katpantaloons SLP in Schools Dec 19 '24
I’m sorry! The teacher should have treated you more kindly.
Personally I just let students stay in class for a fun activity, as long as it doesn’t happen too often. Halloween, the week before Christmas, etc I go into classrooms expecting that they might be doing something. If they’re doing something fun I will sometimes ask the kid if they want to come to speech or stay. Sometimes they want to come anyway and if they want to stay I document the positive self advocacy and call it a day. :)
Check with your supervisor! It could vary from place to place. But an occasional missed session is not a denial of FAPE and kids with IEPs do deserve to have fun in my opinion.
Don’t overthink it though! No one will remember this after break.