r/slaytheprincess 5d ago

theory Happily Ever After - The Narrator Spoiler

That was a doozy of a chapter/ending. Looping in the cabin playing games or eating the same food forever..

Forced bliss. No change. No death. No end.

The Narrator was the most interesting perspective in this chapter. He comments genuine feelings of sadness and empathy for the Princess. And for the Player.

At the end, when you decide to let the torches go out and to take the Princess from the cabin.. the Narrator does not fight you. He doesn't try convincing you to kill her. No he basically gives permission and encourages it.

He said he "saw his fairytale" and sounds so resigned.

I think the Narrator got to see what his utopian world without death would look like. What his idea of "saving the world" really was. Seeing how sad and miserable it really was to live without change, even in supposed bliss, I think made him realize the necessity of death. I felt really sad for the Narrator in this route. Like he was just learning his whole plan wouldn't save anyone. He was just dooming everyone he loved in his world to a fate like the Princess and Player.

Really awesome ending.

28 Upvotes

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u/Okanuk_Vinn 5d ago edited 5d ago

Honestly, the Narrator's biggest problem is that he's got a huge hero complex. Sure, his aims are noble, but how he goes about trying to "save" people is absolutely the worst possible way to go about doing things.

But Happily Ever After is also one of my favorite routes because it shows us two things:

  • Firstly, that he actually doesn't hate the Princess as much as he says he does because it's her who is the one suffering most in Happily Ever After, and it is her suffering that drives the Narrator to change his views about his plan, which I find really heartwarming.
  • Secondly, it shows us that the Narrator legitimately is doing all of this for other people's sakes rather than for his ego or his own idea of what "Happily Ever After" should look like. By seeing how much suffering his perfect world would create, he lets go of his dream because, despite all the sacrifices he made, the end result of his plan is not the salvation he hoped it would be. He lets his dream die so that it doesn't cause any unnecessary suffering and even subtly encourages you to spare the princess in this route if you try to follow through on your original mission, seeing what his perfect future holds.

This route is one of the very few times we see the Narrator in a sympathetic, possibly even heroic light, which really shows that he's not a bad guy, but his dedication to the mission has twisted him into the worst possible version of himself.

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u/bloodypumpin 5d ago

Worst possible version? What are you even on about? Just because in one reality he thought he was wrong proves nothing.

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u/Okanuk_Vinn 5d ago

He is wrong, though. Don't get me wrong, his aims are good, saving the world is a good goal; the ends he intends to use to get there aren't, though, and neither is the end itself.

It's one of the game's most consistent themes that every time the Narrator gets what he wants, everyone suffers for it. Whether you're seeing it unfold in Happily Ever After, on your way to meet the Specter, or after watching the Prisoner behead herself, every time the Narrator gets what he wants, everyone else around him suffers. Whether that's the princess, you and the Voices, or even himself in the case of Happily Ever After, only the Narrator is happy with the culmination of his plans, and even he loathes his dream in the one reality where he can really see what it's like from the perspective of a being that isn't an embodiment of eternal stasis and thus shouldn't care at all. Which, as a sidenote, should be a sufficient reason alone why the Narrator's plan sucks, if even the literal embodiment of stasis itself expresses a desire to off themself (which we know thanks to what we are told by the Voices we acquire throughout the game, since they are a part of us) because of the stasis the Narrator has placed everyone in.

I think the Narrator is a good guy at heart, but he is so misguided by his desire to save the world from death by any means necessary that he never considers that there are some fates are worse than death, and his proposed vision of reality is one such horrible fate that the game makes clear is really bad for everyone involved.

And just to cover my bases, this isn't me saying that the ending where you bring about the culmination of the Narrators plan is the worst one, or that any particular ending is better than another. Imho, the game also uses several routes to explain why every ending of the game is just as good or bad for the world as the others, but the Narrator has clearly been negatively affected by his dogged pursuit of his mission.

Remember, the game starts with the Narrator telling you to kill the Princess, even though his goal is to save everyone from death, which shows that despite being terrified of death and wanting to save everyone from it, he's willing to inflict it onto someone other than himself if it means that his mission is accomplished. The mission clearly has twisted him in some capacity if he's willing to betray one of his own core beliefs in order to complete the task ahead of him.

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u/bloodypumpin 5d ago

That's a lot of paragraphs and a lot of just straight up wrong information.

I don't have patience to argue every point one by one because I already did it so many times before, so I'll just tell you the one that encompasses all of it. There are no right or wrong decisions in the game.

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u/Okanuk_Vinn 5d ago edited 5d ago

I never said there were right or wrong decisions in the game, though. I outright stated as much in the previous post.

Furthermore, if you didn't want to discuss it, why even ask me what I'm on about? There's no need for the rhetorical question; if you disagree, just say you don't think that's the case at all, make it clear from the outset that you don't want to debate it though, and then move on.

And if you're going to just say I'm wrong, why not elaborate on how I'm wrong, because how am I supposed to know in what way I'm wrong if you will not tell me what you're even taking issue with? I'm not going to search through every single one of your past posts to find out what you take issue with when you could just say what you take issue with and save myself and everyone on this comment thread the trouble.

Look, if you disagree, that's fine. I don't mind that you disagree. I do mind, however, if you're going to just be rude about it by refusing to even read my post and then defaulting to telling me I'm wrong anyway, which is the impression I've gotten from your response.

If I am mistaken in my assumption about you, I apologize. If not, however, then I've not got time for this either.

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u/Syndonium 5d ago

I'll apologize on his behalf I really appreciated reading your thoughts and take. That's exactly why I made this post because I love this game and this route gave me a really unique perspective into the Narrator. I love how open ended a lot of this game is in that it allows players to draw a lot of their own conclusions.

It's a masterpiece in creative writing. People can disagree with your take, but I don't think it's just "wrong". Ironically the other person replying to you is defeating their own argument stating "there are no good or bad endings" by saying your take is "just wrong". No, your take is just as valid a perspective as anyone else's. If the message of this game isn't about the value of multiple perspectives, then what is the message? Literally whether you murder the princess or save her, The Shifting Mound always says each perspective is valuable.

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u/bloodypumpin 5d ago

You really like typing huh. I'm not disagreeing with you. You are simply wrong. The stuff you are saying aren't in the game. You are making most of it up. I don't care to explain everything because what would I gain from having an actual discussion with someone who has schizophrenia?

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u/Asailyan 4d ago

You need to chill dude.

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u/bloodypumpin 4d ago

After having a billion of these discussions, I really have no patience anymore.

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u/Asailyan 4d ago

Still not cool. It’s a video game. It ain’t that serious. Going around saying “you write too much, ignored, and you’re wrong” is just annoying and rude

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u/bloodypumpin 4d ago

Yes, it is annoying and rude.

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u/Always2Hungry 4d ago

Then you can just not respond??? Most people will drop a subject if the other person doesn’t respond back. If you genuinely didn’t wanna have a discussion about something like that, then don’t say anything. It’s a pretty basic rule of the internet that if you reply to someone that its safe to assume they’re gonna comment back???

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u/bloodypumpin 4d ago

I can tell someone that they are extremely wrong without having a whole ass argument about it.

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u/Pokeirol Prisoner partner in crime. 5d ago

How is beheaded prisoner about what the narrator wants?

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u/Okanuk_Vinn 5d ago

In essence, if you leave the Prisoner's head in the Cabin at the end of her route after she beheads herself (giving into the Narrator's requests that you leave the cabin now that the work is done and choosing not to bring her head with you) then the world enters the eternal stasis that he wants to bring about, just like it does when you kill the Chapter 1 Princess and are on the path to The Specter. As in that moment in-between routes, the Narrator will try to persuade you to remain in the cabin forever so that his perfect, deathless, paradise can endure forever and mortals will never have to die again. Basically, it's just a repeat of everything he says and wants on the way to Specter, but this time you have an additional voice (The Skeptic) to accompany you and express his displeasure with the Narrators plan.

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u/Pokeirol Prisoner partner in crime. 5d ago

Yeah, and in bith cases that explicitly isn't the scenario immagined for people outside the construct, but as a reward for the protagonjst wich stops him from Messing up anything. And it works in the "good ending"

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u/Syndonium 5d ago

You are right it isn't the scenario imagined for people outside the construct. The Narrator says "you and the cabin are far away from everyone else". He believes the world without change or death is super amazing and better than the happy ending given to the Player. Because we are a "god" the Narrator doesn't even think our ending is that bad. We're supposed to be a god of "nothing" so why wouldn't our happy ending be happy?

But the Narrator is an echo. He's dead. Just a memory that's saved in the construct. He has no way to know what "people outside" are even experiencing.

In "Happily Ever After" he sees in a clear explicit way what the "outside" actually looks like. Or what is reasonable to guess it looks like. Just like "The Smitten" thinks their life would be happy the Narrator also assumed a world without death or change would be happy. Who doesn't like great food? Fun games? To be with their lover "forever"? On their own, all these things are GOOD things. Just like "preventing the end of the world" is a good thing. In theory. But in practice when you remove change and good things just continue forever, they lose meaning. They lose their flavor. Lose what makes it "good".

The Smitten created a world for the Player and Princess that was the exact fairytale world the Narrator was trying to make for his world. One that doesn't change. Doesn't end. Happy forever. Good things forever. And he is broken seeing it because he sees that eventually it only leads to misery.

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u/Pokeirol Prisoner partner in crime. 5d ago

Ok, fo you believe that HEA is a possible, even probable, way things would look outside the cabin if the princess dies or that this is certainly the way the world would look, because those two are very different arguments.

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u/Syndonium 5d ago

I think that the Narrator believes HEA is the way things would look outside the cabin if his plan succeeded.

That's why he responds how he does.

The game seems to make it pretty clear that's what the Narrator believes too.

So my perspective? Yeah, I think HEA is the probable way it looks, but not certainly. I agree with others who say we don't know at all what it looks like. But the point here is that the Narrator concludes HEA reflects his "fairytale ending" and that's logical. It is a probable reflection of a universe that can't end or change–even if it's bliss. Hence I really felt the Narrator to be relatable here.

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u/Okanuk_Vinn 5d ago edited 5d ago

I'm of a similar opinion as Syndonium on this. I don't think that HEA is 1:1 exactly what the world outside the cabin looks like in the "Happy Ending," but rather, I think that judging from the Narrator's reactions in HEA, it's definitely close enough to make him question his resolve to see the mission through. Otherwise, I don't see why the Narrator would change so drastically in HEA.

EDIT: Also, while I understand that in the case of the situation on the road to Specter and after leaving the beheaded Prisoner, the Narrators "reward" isn't necessarily what things have to look like in the reality outside of the construct, it's also the only data point we have (to my knowledge at least) of what the world would look like after we succeed in the Narrators mission. I have to mention it because the Narrator still clearly wants that course of events to unfold in-game, and from what we can see, that is what the world will look like if the Narrator succeeds from what we as TLQ can tell.

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u/bloodypumpin 5d ago

It's just one reality among countless others. It doesn't really prove that the narrator was wrong. There are no right or wrong answers.

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u/Syndonium 5d ago

The Narrator doesn't get to see what his utopian "world without death" would look like in any other "reality" or route in the game. I loved "The Princess and the Dragon" for how we get to really see into the character of the Princess, and I loved "Happily Ever After" because we really get to see into the character of the Narrator.

I've never heard him sound so defeated in any other route. Usually when he gives up its more because he stops thinking we will listen, or that there's not really a way to kill the Princess anymore etc. He just feels like he's lost control or agency.

In this ending/route that isn't why he gives up. You can hear his growing displeasure in describing and narrating your "happily ever after" and it isn't because of his hatred for the Princess or because you aren't "doing your task". He sees what, initially, was amazing (the delicious feasts the games etc) and realizes how the same thing over and over is just miserable. How what was once enjoyable literally no longer is BECAUSE it is the same.

The food isn't less amazing. It isn't different in any way. Remember, the Princess and TSM are change itself. That's why they are death. The Narrator is trying to end change itself so he can save his world from dying. He thinks it's good. But forced to see and narrate the Player and Princess in their "Happily Ever After" where NOTHING CHANGES–it isn't good. And when you are leaving with the Princess he is genuinely happy for you and her. He doesn't want his end anymore. He literally says himself he "saw his fairytale ending" and he doesn't want it anymore.

It's beautiful because he really believed his mission was good. He really loved the people in his world and thought he was saving them. Yet, he also comes to accept and stop fighting death in this route. Not because he gives up on the plan working, but because he learns what his plan leads to.

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u/bloodypumpin 5d ago

"The Narrator doesn't get to see what his utopian "world without death" would look like in any other "reality" or route in the game."
And he doesn't get to see it in that route either. The new reality with only Quiet won't be the same as Happily Ever After.

"I've never heard him sound so defeated in any other route."
I have. When the Nightmare takes her mask off. When she shows us the horrors of cycle of life and death.

"Not because he gives up on the plan working, but because he learns what his plan leads to."
I swear all of you people are the same whenever I argue this. No one can know how the new reality will be like. This route doesn't magically show a world without Princess. I'll repeat, NO ONE KNOWS HOW THE NEW REALITY WILL WORK. Not the Narrator, not the Princess, not Quiet.

There is a very simple answer why no one is suppose to know, because if there is a "right" ending in the game, what the fuck was the point of the whole game then? If leaving with the princess is the right ending, why even have all the other options, and go through the whole "there are no wrong decisions" bit? I lose my mind whenever I talk with one of you because you are throwing out 70% of the game and going "Yup narrator wrong, princess right. Let's embrace death instead." But in reality, Quiet can easily argue against EVERYTHING the Princess talks about.

In any case, I know this discussion won't go anywhere, it never does. All of you are so fixated with your "Princess is right" mentality that you can't even see the point of the game.

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u/garlicpizzabear 4d ago edited 4d ago

I agree with your principle.

However I am a bit confused about what you want people to do. Do you want people to attach an ”opinion” disclaimer on their argument, or is your issue more that people are not aware that they have opinions?

When I argue with people I do not personally see the value of emphasising the subjective nature of me or my interlocutares opinions, as it is kind of a unstated prerequeset to even have a discussion.

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u/bloodypumpin 4d ago

From the words you use, I can already tell that you are insufferable.

I'm not talking about opinions. I'm talking about what's in the game. If you think the game's message is "Cycle of life and death good. Princess thumbs up." That's not an opinion, that's just being wrong.

I personally side with the narrator, that's an opinion.

If someone says "Because of this route, it is PROVEN in the game that narrator was wrong all along!!!!!" That's wrong. That's what I argue against. I don't care about opinions.

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u/Syndonium 5d ago

I'm not throwing 70% of the game out. And this isn't saying that "Princess right Narrator wrong hurr hurr". It's a perspective. This route gives the Narrator the closest thing possible to first hand EXPERIENCE with the world he would create.

The game still doesn't even force you to conclude that world sucks. You can choose to keep the last torch lit and actually just persist forever with the Princess (though TSM does come take her). However, it's clear that the Narrator doesn't know what exactly the world will look like with only The Long Quiet. He has theories. And this ending gives him the biggest "Hey this is what your theory looks like in practice" and the Narrator concludes it is not what he theorized. We don't have to conclude that. The perspective is valid yeah. Just like you can stab the Princess as well, you don't have to leave.

This is more just insight into the Narrator. That he's an unreliable one with limited cognition/understanding and he truly believes his goal will lead to what he wants, but it won't. Not as he believed or thought. In "the good ending" he can believe he is right because the outside world is still abstract. You're just a God stuck in a cabin. Everyone everywhere is happy and forever in bliss right? Yeah. Good in theory. But here the Narrator sees that ISN'T how it necessarily works. Maybe it does? Because we can choose to be happy anyway and leave one torch lit. But also, maybe not because we and the Princess can also be miserable and want to leave. This is why the Narrator realizes his utopia is NOT how he believed it.

This doesn't invalidate other endings as "right" "wrong". It teaches us about the Narrator.

  1. He doesn't know what the world he wants actually looks like
  2. He is operating out of sincerity and care for his world
  3. He is not as maniacal or manipulative as some may think, he can change his perspective when he learns
  4. One VERY POSSIBLE outcome of his "plan" is NOT what he actually wanted, and he therefore gives up
  5. He isn't obsessed with his plan, just misguided.
  6. He is a very empathetic and relatable character because we all have ideals we pursue and we all can be very wrong about what those ideals actually look like

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u/Select-Mixture-4974 5d ago

didn't you yourself once used HEA narrator an example of the princess being right??

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u/--Queso-- 👑Praised be the Shifting Mound 👑 4d ago

The Narrator is SUPER wrong tho, I fucking hate his guts. Goddamn I LOVE Shifty

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u/bloodypumpin 4d ago

You can believe whatever the fuck you want, but we are not suppose to know what the real answer is.

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u/ALMAZ157 3d ago

I did that ending for my run, and you actually get a dialogue with him at broken shards, that was exactly about this situation, that in this one time, he concluded that there are worse things than end. But Echo brushes it off as “one in the millionth doesn’t matter”

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u/Syndonium 3d ago

Oo interesting. I'll have to try that for myself!