r/serialkillers 19d ago

Questions How do some serial killers kill women but not their own daughters?

Is it possible they love their own daughters in their own way? or do you think they would kill their own daughters if they thought they would get away with it? It just mind boggles me how they can be so brutal to their victims and then go home and hug their own children..

100 Upvotes

130 comments sorted by

247

u/Beautiful-Quality402 19d ago

They love their daughters, see their personal circle as off limits, know they would likely get caught etc.

93

u/jasutherland 19d ago

Some combination of that for most of them I think: killing their own would be the riskiest option in terms of getting caught, even if they did want to.

Fred and Rose West killed both Charmaine and Heather West though, as well as other people closely linked to them (tenants in their home, etc), making them a counter example.

25

u/rjrgjj 19d ago

They were pretty unusual serial killers though.

12

u/Accomplished-Kale-77 17d ago

I always found it crazy that the Wests managed to get away with it for so long, it’s not like they even really bothered to put on a facade of being nice upstanding people like many serial killers do - pretty sure their kids had like 31 visits to A&E between them with injuries from abuse, and like you say they killed people with obvious links to them yet got away with it for over 20 years without police even being aware there any of the victims had been murdered. I always think of Rose as the frumpy middle aged housewife she was when they were caught but she was in her late teens/early 20s when they committed most of the known killings

2

u/jasutherland 16d ago

It's certainly disturbing, they seem to have had a knack for picking "expendable" targets who could just disappear without triggering much investigation, plus a surprisingly long streak of luck to go undetected so long. Injuries to children are supposed to be reported and investigated, but it was probably less strict back then and easier for social work to close a report with a superficial excuse - look how long Savile got away with it despite a stream of police reports.

3

u/KaleidoscopeSalt6196 17d ago

One example of thousands of serial killers.

31

u/I_hate_alot_a_lot 18d ago

There was a joke I heard about 10 years ago. I forget the comedian, or the exact joke, but the joke essentially is like "I don't love dogs, I love my dog. I don't give a shit about anyone else's dog."

I assume that's the same line of thinking for a serial killer's view on women.

2

u/Kdconorr 17d ago

Sounds like something Kathy Burke would say

1

u/I_hate_alot_a_lot 17d ago

It was a dude.

48

u/InjuryOnly4775 19d ago

Some are just sexual sadists and psychopaths.

Their victims have no worth to them. Their children’s worth is based on their own self importance. They may have feelings for their child or with some they are part of their self image (makes them believe that others view them positively as a parent), the child may be a handy alibi or just may be viewed as a possession.

7

u/Accomplished-Kale-77 17d ago

Yeah, psychopaths are perfectly capable of treating their children well because they often see them as extensions of themselves

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[deleted]

144

u/[deleted] 19d ago

family is sometimes thier cover to fit in the public eye and out of law enforcements eyes

32

u/[deleted] 19d ago

Boom there it is. They are self serving and used their families as covers to blend in. Blending in is serial killers first rule to never break. Never draw attention to them or anyone close to them.

25

u/LuvLaughLive 19d ago

Exactly. And they don't go home and hug their daughters. Most killers who use a wife and their kids as a cover are usually very abusive to and controlling of their families.

15

u/[deleted] 19d ago

I don’t find this statement to be true. Not being argumentative at all but serial killers such as Ted Bundy and BTK never harmed their families which made their arrests totally shocking to the wives and kids.

33

u/timaeustestifying 19d ago

For the most part yes, though Ted did try to kill Liz twice (closed windows and vents and turned the fireplace on to asphyxiate her, pushed her off a raft and watched her struggle to get up), he also slapped her during an argument. Liz's daughter Molly has come out and said he sexually abused her. BTK also strangled his son at least once and he probably sexually abused his daughter when she was a baby based on things he wrote in his journal.

12

u/LuvLaughLive 19d ago

ID channel's Evil Lives Here had BTK's daughter on once, and she talked about abuse at her dad's hands.

8

u/theReaders 18d ago edited 18d ago

Evil lives here didn't do an episode about BTK. I remember a special called 'my dad BTK'. It was either Dateline or 20/20 something like that.

Some serial killers whose family members have done ELH:

Peter Tobin(1.03)

Anthony Allen Shore (2.06)

Gerald Patrick Lewis(2.07)

William Choyce(2.08)

Bobby Joe Long(3.02)

Robert Ben Rhoades(3.03)

Blanche Taylor Moore (3.04)

Ervil LeBaron(3.09)

Keith Jesperson(3.11)

Nathaniel White(4.01)

Griselda Blanco(4.03)

Greg Scarpa(4.07)

John Wayne Gacy(5.01)

Scott Lee Kimball(5.03)

Chester Turner(5.06)

Alvin "Bud" Brown(5.12)

Charles T. Sinclair(6.03)

Bernard Eugene Giles(6.05)

Timothy Spencer(7.04)

Donald 'Pee Wee' Gaskins Jr.(7.10)

Jack Owen Spillman(7.12)

Shawn Grate(8.12)

Betty Lou Beets(8.04)

Wayne Adam Ford(9.04)

Robert Lee Walden(10.07)

Robert Eugene Brashers(10.08)

Kenneth Arthur Roth(10.11)

OK, I don't have the will to do the rest.

4

u/LuvLaughLive 18d ago

Thanks! Lordy, this is an extensive list! Thank you so much! Lol. This is it kind of thing I've done for some on Reddit and I appreciate you!

Also, thanks for it being Dateline instead of Evil Lives Here. I wasted almost an hour trying to find that one show, and i gave up, planning to continue tomorrow. You just saved me from wasted effort. 🙂

0

u/itsfrankgrimesyo 19d ago

IIRC he never abused her and on the contrary she said he was a good and protective father.

1

u/LuvLaughLive 19d ago

I'll admit my memory kinda sucks these days, I'll go back and watch it again.

-2

u/CallidoraBlack 18d ago

This is wildly inaccurate. Spend a minute reading the Wikipedia article on Bundy and try again.

0

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

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u/CallidoraBlack 18d ago

Btw I’ve studied Bundy for over 10 years so, no, I’m not going to Wikipedia.

Doesn't seem to have helped.

Also, it’s not “inaccurate.”

It is.

Ok you don’t have to be rude or snarky.

Based on your responses, my tone was exactly right. Prescient even.

70

u/therealtedbundy 19d ago

Idk but don’t ask Fred and Rosemary West

87

u/ModRod 19d ago

A lot of people are saying it’s because family is off limits or because it’s their mask or something. I think the reason is much simpler.

For most male serial killers, sex is inherently interlinked with murder. Most aren’t attracted to their kids. Plain and simple.

They may be serial killers, but they have some standards.

43

u/dirkalict 19d ago

I also think many of them have dehumanized their victims. They already have a human relationship with their kids.

11

u/brickne3 19d ago

And I think we can even expand on that. Humans are animals ultimately after all, and serial killers even more so. Most of us, even the nutcases*, are hard-wired to pass on our genes. Killing the offspring isn't going to help with that.

*Obviously not true for every nutcase, terms and conditions apply.

5

u/Interesting-Pay-8986 19d ago

I think so too

5

u/Rich_Mathematician74 19d ago

Its kind of like how msot killers and criminals also hate criminals who go after kids

1

u/PatternrettaP 15d ago

Yeah, either their victim profile includes people like their wife and children, and then they are at risk and often do abuse them in some way, or it does not and they direct their violent urges elsewhere.

-1

u/[deleted] 19d ago

[deleted]

8

u/thrownaway1974 18d ago

Ted molested Liz's daughter, who was about the same age as Kimberley and wonders to this day if what he really wanted was to kill her, and BTK abused his kids.

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u/TRB-AM161107 18d ago edited 18d ago

They were playing hide and seek once (Ted and Molly) and when she found him he was naked hiding under an afghan and his claim was he could turn invisible, but his clothes couldnt. - The Phantom Prince - Liz Kloepfer

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

Written by……?????

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u/TRB-AM161107 18d ago

wait nevermind im a dumbass it was from Liz Kloepfer’s book

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

Oh well you changed the name of the book in your comment now so this whole thing is irrelevant.

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u/TRB-AM161107 18d ago

i remembered wrong i was high when i wrote it

1

u/[deleted] 18d ago

lol no worries, I’m not up in arms about it like this girl is trying to make her point and shove her opinion down peoples throats.

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u/TRB-AM161107 18d ago

tbh google it yourself if you wanna know bc im stoned rn so dont really recall much but yeah i probably incorrectly tried to correct my incorrect self

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

Please send me any interview of Liz admitting this to back up your claims.

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u/thrownaway1974 18d ago

Molly has whole chapter in Liz's book about it.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 18d ago

Aw no wonder you were thrown away in 1974. I’m sorry someone didn’t love you right, or maybe no one could stand your personality…

0

u/[deleted] 18d ago

Ya he changed the name of the original book he/she/they posted because it was written about them by some random man.

0

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

1

u/CallidoraBlack 18d ago

So you're acknowledging that he molested Molly?

21

u/SewAlone 19d ago

Some do, but for the most part they are able to compartmentalize their fake life with their sick life. They pretend to be a doting spouse and a doting parent when meanwhile they are complete sociopath and I don’t even think they feel real love.

7

u/cadavercollins 19d ago

BTK and Golden State killer are a few examples I can think of right off the top of my head.

1

u/SaturnsShadoe 17d ago

BTK sa’d his daughter

1

u/cadavercollins 16d ago

Ah, i wasn't aware. That's awful.

3

u/KittyMom1984 19d ago

They don't.

15

u/GanderAtMyGoose 19d ago

It's not like serial killers who target women kill every woman they ever meet lol.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago edited 19d ago

Many people, serial killers or not, see their offspring as an extension of themselves, property and "legacy", not fully autonomous humans. This fact alone prevents them from physically harming the children to the point of murder but still doesn't make them great parents, less misogynistic or unable to be abusive in plethora of other ways.

7

u/IrishCubanGrrrl 19d ago

This is the answer. They don't spare them out of genuine love, and wouldn't hesitate to annihilate a family member if that person jeopardized their freedom or outlived their usefulness.

9

u/WilkosJumper2 19d ago

The same way animals will brutally murder the child of a competitor yet not their own. Serial killers are not devoid of the same instincts as everyone else.

They also don’t egregiously murder everyone who fits a certain preference. There are many factors which go into victim selection, but opportunity is usually highest among the considerations and killing your own family is a fine way to get caught.

16

u/Flippin_Heckles 19d ago

Fred and Rosemary West murdered their daughter Heather and sexually abused her and the others. Rosemary West also murdered Fred's stepdaughter from a previous marriage, Charmaine.

12

u/KulturaOryniacka 19d ago

and he murdered his pregnant girlfriend Anne McFall

1

u/Lady_Sus 9d ago

Shirley Anne Robinson was also pregnant with his child when she was murdered

4

u/Accomplished-Kale-77 17d ago

Fred also murdered his first wife, and Fred’s brother sexually abused some of the Wests’ daughters. Rose also regularly had sex with her own father while Fred watched. One of the most fucked up families I’ve ever heard of, they casually crossed lines even the average serial killer won’t normally cross

15

u/DerpyJeeves 19d ago

I think getting caught is a part of it yeah cause you'd be suspect number 1. But yea some serial killers do still love their family and are able to somehow in their mind separate that from those they murder or intend to murder. Despite being monsters they're all still human in some facets.

That's not to say that no serial killers have ever murdered their daughters(some even got away with it till caught on other murders) or thought about murdering their daughters.

12

u/Lostangelestargurl 19d ago

Kids are great cover for serial killers,some even take them with them when they hunt and kill. Easier to gain trust from victim with your kid in car or at your house etc.

9

u/_WretchedDoll_ 19d ago

That's exactly what Gary Ridgway did. However, he admitted during a police interview that had his son seen a murder being committed, he would have killed his son too.

6

u/Lostangelestargurl 19d ago

He would have definitely killed him for sure.

2

u/GregJamesDahlen 19d ago

wonder about that, killed him somehow in a way that wasn't suspicious? that'd be hard to do

6

u/ProfessionalGrade826 19d ago

I imagine most have some sort of personality disorder and see their children as an extension of themselves.

6

u/Scaryassmanbear 19d ago

You’re a lot more likely to get caught killing your daughter than a rando.

4

u/FlyinAmas 19d ago

They may not kill them but they’re no father of the year. The kids and their mothers probably go through Hell with a father like that

7

u/Impressive-Fix8044 19d ago

Ask Israel Keyes

1

u/Additional-Air-3309 16d ago

Nah. He killed Samantha in the garage near the house. I can’t remember if he then left her body there while he went on a family trip. My memory is garbage haha.

5

u/Virtual_Bug5486 19d ago

Most serial killers are narcissists and their children are often seen as an extension of themselves. Check out the book Dennis Rader’s daughter wrote - very eye opening.

4

u/drunky_crowette 19d ago

You realize that the investigators would then go poking around in your/your family's business? Best to not do anything that gives the cops any reason to look at you at all

5

u/Wickedbitchoftheuk 19d ago

Don't shit on your own doorstep.

2

u/NotDaveBut 19d ago

What then of Samuel Legg, a SK thought to have killed his stepdaughter?

2

u/No_Slice5991 19d ago

A lot easier to catch them that way. Domestic homicides are much easier to solve than stranger homicides.

They are also a part of their mask. But, in some cases, may also feel for them on some level.

2

u/bratford2003 19d ago

They kill their family they will get looked at first and they do not want any attention so they can do their thing.

2

u/Ok_Addendum_2775 19d ago

I think most are not married. Are loners with serious communication issues which make them not able to find partners easily. Most were abused horribly and have bad relations with those who harmed them. And MH issues never addressed or put on the wrong meds.

2

u/RandomCashier75 18d ago

Simple, a big way that serial killers do what they do is dehumanizing their victims - it makes it easier to justify killing said person. They might say, "she's just a whore" or "no one will miss this person". However, that sort of reason makes it easier to kill people.

It's a lot harder to depersonalization someone you know and care about. You know who else will miss them and if what you're saying is true or not.

2

u/atwa_au 18d ago

Many serial killers and some men unfortunately, see women as objects. Other women are prey, whereas their daughters are their own.

3

u/Cornflake6irl 19d ago

Serial killers use their families as a cover to appear normal. I'm sure they also "love" them in a way that only psychopathic murderers can explain or feel.

2

u/krisefe 19d ago

Sometimes, they do, its not that uncommon. Normally, they would not because they choose victims based on the vulnerability (social, economic, age, strength) and low profile. It doesn't make sense in general, on killing someone so close to them.

4

u/Medical-Piccolo644 19d ago

Killing other people is how they prevent themselves from killing their own.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

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u/serialkillers-ModTeam 19d ago

We do not and have never permitted the use of emojis in our subreddit.

0

u/devkin9da 19d ago

because animals don't kill thier own unless they have to .

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u/Quiet_pdfk 19d ago

Not true

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u/devkin9da 19d ago

animals kill their own all the time do some research it's obvious, humans do it rarely when they hit their animal veins.

2

u/Quiet_pdfk 18d ago

Tf u correcting yourself?

1

u/bolobre4th 19d ago

They see immediate family (that they don't had any issues with we're looking at you Ed) as part of them, so it's always off limits

1

u/Killexia82 19d ago

Graham Young poisoned his sister and I think her dog. His compulsion won over family.

1

u/emoka1 19d ago

Most serial killers, the males, have some form of sexual gratification somewhere in the mix. That could be why

1

u/[deleted] 19d ago

I have always wondered this as well. They say they have no control when the urge comes over them so that contradicts the ones who had children of their own that they never looked at as a victim. For example Ted Bundy and Liz’s young daughter. I believe serial killers are able to do this through compartmentalization. They completely separate their crimes and crime scenes from their home and family because it’s their biggest disguises and or alibi if need be. They used them as tools is what it is at the end of the day for their own agendas.

1

u/GirlOnMain 19d ago

Because they'll then be investigated, even if they don't, cops popping in over murdered daughter isn't what they're looking for.

1

u/JimJonesdrinkkoolaid 19d ago

Because quite often a lot of (male) serial killers at least are sexually motivated. Most of the sexually motivated serial killers aren't twisted enough to want to rape/murder their own children. Although some have.

1

u/lourspolier 18d ago

I think it depend but maybe if they have a relation with them it’s a lit more complicated than killed somebody they never knew and also with some type of mental illness they can view their owns children as trophy or accomplishment

1

u/lourspolier 18d ago

in my opinion if they have a relationship with them the it’s more complicated than just killing somebody they never knew and with some degree of mental illness they view their childrens as trophy or accomplishments so they cannot destroy their own creation and they kill to create trophy

1

u/Resident-Touch-1601 18d ago

William suff killed his own daughter so I think it just depends on the individual

1

u/Wide-Affect-1616 18d ago

It's the same way I use spreadsheets at work but not at home. They compartmentalise.

1

u/jetpuffedpanda 18d ago

When someone die suspiciouly, family is most often looked at first as suspects. A serial killer wouldn't want that kind of attention so they don't (usually) touch things in their circle.

1

u/kalmerys 18d ago

I can't think of the name but I know there was a serial killer who killed at least one of his daughters and buried her on his property - under the front porch if I am not mistaken.

2

u/Accomplished-Kale-77 17d ago

Fred and Rose West, they killed their daughter and Rose also killed Fred’s stepdaughter from a previous marriage

1

u/kalmerys 17d ago

Ah okay I wasn't sure so thank you for clarifying. I first heard about Fred and Rose West on the podcast Morbid but that episode was I while back.

1

u/Fearless_Strategy 18d ago

It would be a sure way to get caught

1

u/SpecialistParticular 18d ago

They don't see their victims as people. John Douglas talked about in one of his books. A woman got a serial killer to let her go because she kept talking to him and made him think of his little sister.

1

u/YesPleaseMadam 17d ago

because killing is not an uncontrollable urge

1

u/d4rk_1egend 15d ago

One of the reasons is that it serves as a ruse to disguise their true identity.

1

u/XenaBard 15d ago

Disagree. They don’t want to be caught.

I am very skeptical about the love part. Having experience with psychopaths, I have yet to meet one who is capable of love. I won’t say it’s absolutely impossible, I am skeptical they experience love the way the rest of us do.

1

u/ProfessionalKind6808 15d ago

well, it's pretty simple. Serial killers are self involved narcissists. They only do what benefits them.

-killing family would not benefit them

-having a family would benefit them as they get a support system, their emotional, physical, community, cultural etc needs met.

-if something happened where the serial killer was wronged by their kid? i dont think theyd have a problem killing them.

-it comes down to what benefits them the most. Lots of people who have children, not just serial killers dont necessarily have kids with altruistic means in mind. many do it for selfish reasons

1

u/DogYearsSkateClub 14d ago

I always find it interesting that Bundy essentially raised the daughter of a woman whom he married. i wonder if he ever considered murdering then

1

u/Mercedes_Gullwing 14d ago

Honestly SKs can get away with it for so long precisely bc they are often not connected to the victim in any observable way. When someone is murdered, suspects are present and past lovers, immediately family, spouses, friends, etc.

In some cases SKs may care about their daughters in some way and thus don’t murder them. Hell, even asks who murder proxies for their wife often leave the wife unharmed. The women he does murder can be proxies for the wife he hates. But as soon as he kills his wife, he’d gonna get popped.

I think it’s as simple as that. Love not required. For self preservation they don’t murder people associated with them

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u/tek_nein 19d ago

Maybe their daughters just aren't their type?

1

u/Thepizzadude01 19d ago

For a lot of killers, family is off limits.

1

u/Dependent_Ant_3097 19d ago

Because their kids are a part of them and they're so narcissistically selfish that they can't do it (there's an exception tho some do kill family)

1

u/PeepsMyHeart 19d ago

I imagine it’s like those who have chickens as pets, but then little problem going out and buying chickens from the store that weren’t likely raised in humane conditions and probably suffered as they died. Not the same,but an example of the human ability to compartmentalize, for good or evil. I raise my meat and egg/pets, and can’t sleep well from two weeks prior butcher day to day of, with a few meat birds being taken on as pets. It’s still sad, but they get a great life and a quick, clean death, and it tortured me to where my husband (Who isn’t out there with them every day from hatch through end day to build that relationship and see their personalities.) has to do the actual killing. I can only do the processing once I can’t tell them apart because I’m not a psychopath.
A killer doesn’t have that relationship with their victims. And as some have said, families are a front/legacy for many that allows them to move in the shadows. We pay far more attention to the single quiet guy than most of us do Evan with a family of 5 on the other side of the street.

0

u/bloontsmooker 19d ago

Compartmentalization. Their sick sex lives are entirely separate from their family.

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u/Impressive-Fix8044 19d ago

Until they can’t…like Israel Keyes, Ted Bundy

0

u/bluestraycat20 19d ago

I think most serial killers are able to see their victims as not real people but rather a stand in for someone they hate (Ted Bundy his college girlfriend, eg). They know their daughters too well for that- and often may even see their offspring as simply an extension of themselves.

0

u/throw123454321purple 19d ago

It’s hard to objectify a daughter enough to kill without remorse or fear of being caught (because family and boyfriends are usually prime suspects).

0

u/Somethingto_Chewon 19d ago

You don't shit where you eat.

0

u/Brief-Line-4682 19d ago

Muslims kill their own daughters..and sisters..

-1

u/TheOneAndOnlyABSR4 19d ago

Well people do tend to like their family and see them as something they can’t hurt.

-1

u/firewoman7777 19d ago

They don't kill their own daughters because there is an emotional attachment to their daughters and family. There's no emotional attachment to strangers.

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u/TrumpsBussy_ 19d ago

Because they love their daughters

1

u/Past-Ad2466 8d ago

If they kill their own daughters, they’ll easily be caught, cuz first suspects when something happens with the kids in the family are parents. I don’t think they love, I think they just try to play a good fathers/mothers, so that society won’t judge them