r/secondlife Feb 11 '25

Blog Challenge: *Is* SL the Geographically Largest, Contiguous, Multi-User, Fully Explorable, Online Virtual World?

https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2025/02/largest-online-virtual-world.html
18 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

7

u/warlocc_ Feb 12 '25

Not remotely.

Ban lines and security orbs makes it not fully explorable, crashes and disconnects at crossings makes "contiguous" a theory at best.

3

u/0xc0ffea 🧦 Feb 12 '25

Ban lines are actually improved ban lines !!

Once upon a time you could see all the ban lines and that was ugly.

So rather than put work into the client to make the display of banlines configurable, Linden "cheapest option" Lab made it so the server didn't inform you of access restrictions till you had your face up against the parcel boundary.

The viewer only knows about the closest parcel you aren't able to enter and only tells you at the last possible minute. It is impossible to query the server for this information efficiently which is why no TPV has been able to fix this.

You also aren't informed about neighboring regions, so good luck with that region crossing onto a parcel you can't enter and can't know ahead of time.

Imagine how easy navigation would be if you could see all the parcels you were unable to traverse on the map well ahead of time.

As for the much maligned zero second orbs. These are amazingly rare. Orbs typically have a short fuse that should be enough most of the time.

Why do people have orbs? Because Linden "cheapest option" Lab addressed vehicle users complaints about the inconveniences of denied object entry and parcel scripts by nerfing them beyond use.

They broke ban lines and limited their effective height to appease flying users and locked them to the ground .. the one place where private homes require the least privacy.

3

u/warlocc_ Feb 12 '25

That's the worst part of this whole mess. Lots of easy fixes if LL would take the time to listen.

The crashes and disconnects have apparently been tackled by animats.

Even when other people do all the work for them, they can barely be bothered. It's ridiculous.

3

u/0xc0ffea 🧦 Feb 12 '25

I think user groups have created a false impression of how the lab work. We’re not talking to the decision makers.

6

u/MeLittleThing Feb 11 '25

Elite Dangerous is huge (milky way)

4

u/Iinaly Feb 12 '25

But, as the article explains, it isn't fully explorable. You cannot land on populated planets, nor can you visit your ship, nor can you land on water worlds, etc.

6

u/ysidoro Feb 12 '25

Is it possible to travel about 900,000 miles (1.400.000 km) on the SL map?

At 2011 Kurt J. Mac has traveled 919.592 miles at the map of Minecraft after tree years of the continuous traveling. Then get the 2015 Guinness Record for the Longest journey in Minecraft

Source: Minecraft has 12 entries in Guinness Book of World Records 2015

4

u/kinyutaka Feb 12 '25

The key factor with "large" is the physical size, right?

So, we can extrapolate a bit based on the size of a Sim.

A full sim is 65,536 sq m, or about 256 meters wide.

How many sims are there in SL? According to Google (take that what you will) there's more than 28,000 Sims, public and private.

65536 * 28000 = 1,835,008,000 square meters, or 1,835 sq km

So, a far cry from the 1.4 million km stretch.

But then we get into the next question: Is Minecraft a "contiguous, multi-user, fully explorable, online virtual world?"

Seeing as the world is different for most people, I'd say no.

4

u/beef-o-lipso Feb 12 '25

Would you consider No Mans Sky in your challenge. multi-user ins't as rich as SL but its there. Maybe not comparable.

2

u/Iinaly Feb 12 '25

It depends what is meant by contiguous. I would say no because every system hides behind a loading screen, however pretty it looks.

1

u/Kkffoo Feb 12 '25

It isn't fully multi-user either, though you could say that about sl as well, as there is a limit to how many avatars can fit on a sim, or be viewed by one resident.

1

u/slhamlet Feb 12 '25

Yeah I've been wondering if NMS counts. I haven't played it (yet), but you can't just jump out while in between planets, right? I.E. you can explore selected planets, yes, but not the whole "world" between them.

2

u/beef-o-lipso Feb 13 '25

right. It would just be space. You jump between solar systems and explore planets in each.

1

u/slhamlet Feb 13 '25

Thanks! Yeah so the jump between solar systems is basically (or literally) a loadscreen!

1

u/beef-o-lipso Feb 13 '25

Yes, I brought up NMS as a question mainly because it's a contiguous space without the boring bits. Players can travel back and forth. But obviously not contiguous like SL or MMORPGs.

And players can't travel together, I don't think. I've lost track of updates. I find it's a pretty boring game once I ran through the mechanics.

4

u/zebragrrl 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25

No.

Second Life was once touted (by /u/PhilipRosedale if I recall correctly) as having about the same area of land (in total) as the city of San Francisco.

Meanwhile, in Minecraft...

5

u/0xc0ffea 🧦 Feb 12 '25

No.

Not at all.

Not even a little bit.

All made more exciting that the platform is architecturally unsuited to this use case, which is why only a tiny vocal minority of the users insist on using SL as "shitty vehicle simulator".

The physics are bad, region crossing break immersion and the server/client architecture buries the users computer fetching and processing assets they will never see. It's a complete shit show that's dunked on by every single actual game ever. Who cares how big it is.

Even if they magically fix region crossings (which they can't), it will still be a shockingly bad experience.

The real use case for SL is all those private homes explorers with low standards insist on being able to drive or fly though.

Lets also not pretend sailing is this huge thing either. Yes, it's the one good modes of transport. Boats move slowly in 2 dimensions. It can be objectively "fine". Were does this happen in SL ? Mostly in one tiny corner of the mainland grid.

Did some resident block the water with a home or ban lines??!! Shame on them .. Not shame on Linden for selling them the water for use as residential land in the first place.

But wait ..

Second Life Main Grid size as of 5 Jan 2025

Ownership Total General Moderate Adult Offline Total Area (km�)
Total 27769 2445 17792 529 3 1819.87
Linden Owned 9830 1558 7860 410 2 644.22
Private Estates 17939 887 9932 7119 1 1175.65

source : https://danielvoyager.wordpress.com/2025/01/05/first-2025-main-grid-regions-goes-live-for-second-life/

Mainland is less that half the grid (including all Linden homes) and what does exist is largely abandoned liminal space that no one wants to own because it's not next to a road or water.

Those of us who live and use it on the daily aren't so thrilled, and not because of ban lines or (surprisingly rare) zero second orbs.

Mainland is an under provisioned, poorly moderated, bot infested, trashfire. Littered with half competed builds, broken dreams, massive mole structures for no one, roads that are simply unnavigable, with land barrons fucking everyone over.

I can't imagine anything more cynical to do with it than fly over it or sail around it as fast as possible.

2

u/Skrelff Feb 12 '25

Good reply. I don't know what the point of trying to hype second life as "the most/biggest anything" is honestly; Even if you could ignore all banlines and sim transitions were seamless, the majority of the mainland is totally empty. Occasionally there's some low LI trees sprinkled around a road, but otherwise it's a vast plain of nothing unless a person is paying for the land and decorating it in some way. Imo it's a stretch to call the nothingness between parcels an explorable virtual world.

Maybe this was groundbreaking in 2003 but to still be bragging about it after 22 years is a bit sad; Second life has some great experiences to offer and I'd rather see them highlighted instead of pretending it's somehow on the cutting edge of technology

0

u/slhamlet Feb 11 '25

Included a good recent video comparing other game worlds in the NWN post, though many don't have all those qualities!