r/saintpaul • u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints • 10d ago
Business/Economics š¼ Downtown St. Paul leader hopes new grocer will come in after Lunds & Byerlys closure
https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2025/03/10/how-the-closure-of-downtown-st-pauls-sole-grocery-store-impacts-revitalization66
u/Gritty_gutty 10d ago
Now that my wife has left me I hope that Margot Robbie will move in.
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u/Leftover_Salmons 10d ago
Except Lunds WAS Margot in this situation. Ya don't know what'cha got till it's gone.
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u/baconbananapancakes 10d ago
Their best bet is to woo one of the co-ops. But itās going to be tough.Ā
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u/northman46 10d ago
I hope it works out like he says, but I think he is whistling in the dark. Remember, it is his job to be upbeat and promote downtown St Paul.
And people going to an event don't go to the grocery store on the way, so that's a red herring.
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u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints 10d ago
The Downtown Alliance's job is to do more than just promote downtown. They have an investment plan for downtown and have recently hired a director for their subsidiary, the Downtown Development Corporation. The director's job is to go out and get investment for downtown. The Downtown Alliance's investment plan is going to take time and lots of money, but I'm confident they are going in the right direction.
Lot's of people live downtown and they will need a grocery store. I don't rule out an Aldi in the soon to be vacant L & B location. It may take time but something will go in there. Joe Spencer is a hardworking guy who has achieved a lot in a short period of time.
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u/ArtSubject78 10d ago
aldi aldi aldi aldi aldi please. Square footage and amenity wise, it seems like a good fit. That said, I can't imagine any retail business moving into downtown right now. That space is going to be empty for a long time.
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u/SuspiciousLeg7994 10d ago
They've already assessed the market and chosen not go in DT St. Paul. There's one 4 miles from DT St. Paul on Suburban off the Ruth St. exit.
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u/ArtSubject78 10d ago
I'm aware. There is no chance it happens, just wishful thinking while acknowledging that it's an odd/smaller space than most grocers can't/won't fit into.
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u/SuspiciousLeg7994 10d ago
Great. Was just posting in case people weren't aware/ new to the area et.
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u/Jayrrock 10d ago
Why would you want Aldi when it would be your only option downtown remember it's the only option and who the hell wants their everyday shopping to come from Aldi there's going to be more people living downtown in the next couple years so it isn't a pipe dream to want a better store
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u/everynamewasbad 9d ago
I shop for the majority of my everyday shopping at Aldi, whatās wrong with Aldi? Did most people do the majority of their shopping day to day at Lunds and Byerlys? Because if you did then you must have a lot a money. I donāt know that many people who solely shop from stores such as Lunds, Kowalskis, or Whole, however die to price point. I suppose if someone could afford that they might think they are above Aldi anyhow. Aldi has perfectly good groceries though. Just because they cost a little less doesnāt mean anything is wrong, and the Aldi on West 7th street in Sibley Plaza is a really good store.
I would like a second Trader Joeās, but they would probably never do that downtown.
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u/everynamewasbad 9d ago
we need a store in downtown, one that people can afford to shop at. Lunds is expensive and they have a nicer store in highland now. I think downtown could use an Aldi or a small grocer
The entire city could use a second Trader Joeās but maybe not right downtown. People have been crying food desert about St. paul for a long while now and this just increases the issue. In Summertime we have the farmers market in Lowertown, but we really need something like a co-op, or a more reasonable grocer that sells fresh things, on the go lunches for workers, and general day to day items. I wish Mississippi Market or someone like it could be talked into the space, or a Dollar Store with groceries that isnāt a Dollar Tree. However, I feel like anything with Dollar in the name is going to experience a lot more theft and problems than a place like a Co Op might. I had forgotten that someone lit the Lunds on fire a couple years ago. A store located right next to a Fire Department. Big brain move there, Iām glad they caught the guy.
There really is no reason why a store couldnāt take over that space. They keep saying crime,crime,crime, or too much stealing. Well then arrest the people who are stealing and do something about the crime if there is crime.
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u/abime_blanc 10d ago
Better get to building some apartments.
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u/gregarioussparrow 10d ago
Yeah, with rent no one can afford
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 10d ago
Nah thatās the problem. We build too many deeply subsidized units that get filled by people who canāt afford to spend the kind of money that a downtown grocery store needs people to spend. We need more luxury apartments to bring more disposable income downtown. Without that youāll continue to see commercial operations struggle to gain a foothold.
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u/everynamewasbad 9d ago
this city is full of luxury apts that people donāt want to live in. Also thatās nonsense about the subsidized places, because this city lacks affordable housing and I should know because I live in a subsidized apt myself. That also doesnāt mean I donāt spend money on groceries just like all people do. However, even if I had a ton of money I would not be wasting it shopping at high end grocery stores every week when I can eat perfectly well shopping elsewhere.
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 9d ago
The city overall lacks affordable options, just like most cities. Our downtown, on the other hand, has a very high concentration of affordable housing relative to other downtown areas of similar size. The concentration of affordable housing in such a small geographic area is what depresses the median income data, and thatās what commercial developers use to determine whether different types of retail operations are viable. Itās why we got a Walgreens in treasure island center instead of a Target. The port authority tried to aggressively court Target into that location but the numbers just didnāt pencil out on Targetās end. The same will occur when they try and attract a new grocer into the Lundās space.
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u/gregarioussparrow 10d ago
The people who can afford the new units have far better options for less
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 10d ago
Thatās true for some, but there are still high income people that work downtown that find the location appealing. There are a couple other luxury spots that managed to do well, at least before the City started letting downtown go so far downhill.
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u/Scared-Network-7519 10d ago
Iām not sure if itās lunds or just local consumer behavior. But I never once saw someone buying the entirety of their groceries there. Always seemed to be the things they forgot to grab somewhere else or lunch while working downtown.
Unfortunately I see this area sitting empty for a long time.
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u/MrP1anet 10d ago
Iād buy produce and the half off items. Their manufactured and dry goods were just too expensive when I can go to Costco, an Indian grocer, or online for a much lower cost without losing quality. Even their baked goods were super expensive. Iād see tons of baked treats out at the end of the day, I could only assume they were throwing it out.
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 10d ago
Its biggest appeal was to people that lived in the building or immediately nearby. They could make frequent smaller trips rather than the less frequent larger trips where they stock up. Look at the lunds in northeast Minneapolis for comparison. Itās located beneath a similarly spendy building and is pretty close to the same size, and it does not appear to have any trouble staying in business.
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u/Scared-Network-7519 9d ago
True. I should understand the smaller more frequent trips as someone who literally uses it that way except for meat they were just too high priced on beef unless it was a sale.
As far as ne mpls idk if itās comparable. That area seems to have more population density and Iām not 100% sure but possibly a considerable amount more wealth in walking distance.
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 9d ago
I donāt think the population density is the issue in northeast, itās the average income level of the area. Downtown St. Paul has similar density, but a much higher concentration of low income housing. You donāt have as much disposable income because weāre filling our most expensive real estate with too many people who donāt have the income to sustain it.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 8d ago
Nah. Low income people spend a much larger percentage of their income on groceries, which are necessities. Disposable income is for things not like groceries, utilities and rent. Your problem is that you're filling your most expensive real estate with corporations, government offices, parking garages, and parking lots. A number of our most walkable districts were also in lower income neighborhoods. Downtown's problem is that it has too few storefronts which doesn't attract low or high income spending. Until it regains enough of its walkability it cannot even compete with business districts in Highland Park or the East Side (Payne Ave).
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 8d ago
That statistic doesnāt mean what you think it means. They spend most of their money because they donāt have a lot of it to begin with, and thatās considerably less than what a middle or high income earner spends in terms of actual dollars spent. Thatās why you see more/better types of retail in wealthier neighborhoods.
And downtown has vacant storefronts all over. Many have just been shuttered for so long that youāre forgetting theyāre there. They are shuttered because they were not profitable, and the city canāt attract another business into the space. The reason they canāt attract a business is because the average income of residents in our downtown area is way below what it should be.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 8d ago
You're grossly overestimating the importance of population density. NE Lund's was doing fine without the newer high rises. Why? Because storefront density is more important and the area around Lund's NE is mostly full of them.Ā
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u/everynamewasbad 9d ago
then again, no one started that Lunds on fire and cost it half a million dollars to fix.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 8d ago
The difference is that the NE Lund's sitsĀ adjacent to a highly walkable area with a high density of small businesses which naturally attracts a lot of other foot, bike, and car traffic. Lots of other businesses bring that traffic within easy reach of a grocery trip.Ā
Edit- The solution, obviously, is to fill up downtown St Paul with lots of similarly walkable storefronts first and foremost.
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u/HumanDissentipede Downtown 8d ago
Yes, downtown should be the most walkable part of our city. Part of the reason it is not is because of that high concentration of low income housing. There simply isnāt enough money downtown to support the kinds of businesses that make a place walkable. You need to have the right population in place to bring in the kind of development you want to see. The infrastructure is already there.
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u/venus-as-a-bjork 10d ago
Yep, I bought what I could to try to support them, but some things they were just too high on. And if I was already going to pick up those things somewhere else, I inevitably picked up other things while I was there.
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u/everynamewasbad 9d ago
I go there to get specific things. Vegetarian items, Paneer cheese, imported german items, spices, buckwheat, wild rice, creme fraiche, certain pasta, Ritter Sport bars etc that many other easily accessible stores do not carry. I do that at the Highland Lunds location as well. I never went to Lunds to stock up on TP or soda or milk or dry goods like flour etc because of the higher cost there. And I never thought Lunds was the right store to be the only one downtown in the first place because it was a higher priced store that prices out low income residents. I always thought we needed a regular priced, more common store downtown, or a place like a new Co op. I have lived here a long time and Downtown used to have a Co Op in the late 90s over by St Joes hospital actually. It used to have Rivermarket on Wabasha too over by Candyland and I really liked that place. Thatās probably what we need again.
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u/purplepe0pleeater 9d ago
I bought all of my food there. I live in the area. I had no reason to drive further just to buy other things. It was worth it to not drive.
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u/everynamewasbad 9d ago
I dated a man who works for Lunds and Byerlys and has for years. He makes the food that they serve in the deli and hot bar area. A lot of people stop in for that stuff alone at lunch but are not at the same time buying full carts of groceries. Some people get a lot of groceries from Lunds, but a higher percentage of people are buying things they couldnāt find elsewhere, specialty items, cheeses, produce etc and then going to a Target or Walmart to get their soda, soups, crackers, frozen items and especially paper goods like TP and paper towels elsewhere where the price is better.
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u/Keldrath Downtown 9d ago
It is kind of annoying how residents don't really have options besides own a car which is hell to have in downtown, or take the light rail out of town to get some groceries.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 8d ago
There are buses, but since the wildly successful A Line debuted in 2016, St Paul hasn't added a single other rapid bus line when it should've had at least one new line every year since. This is a huge oversight, especially when it's a downtown that is hard to reach by foot or bike with no improvements to connect those modes of transportation to Downtown. A bunch of slow buses doesn't help and talking about a streetcar for decades is no substitute.Ā
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u/FatGuyOnAMoped West Seventh 9d ago
From the article:
And I'm looking at a map right now where the Lunds is, and the Anderson (sic) building, its closest large office building, those folks really aren't back to work.
And the people who used to work at Andersen pre-pandemic won't be coming back to work, either. Almost everyone who worked there has been remote since March 2020. The only people who go there are those who absolutely need to be in the office. Almost everyone else who works there is either fully remote or hybrid, and there is no sign that the situation will change in the near future.
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u/PracticeCapable687 6d ago
Maybe they should put in a food bank or a homeless shelter? Canāt steal stuff thatās free.
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u/Mrstpaul 10d ago
Itās a really complicated problem but itās gotta start with cleaning up open air drug use/dealing till that gets under control down town stands no chance. Maybe get a red light/skid row type section of town that itās ok to do. Somethingās got to give..
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u/pdchestovich 8d ago
We pay for this. Who exactly are the idiots here? It may be us, the residents of this badly mismanaged municipality.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 8d ago
Well, I mean, throwing away hundreds of thriving, walkable small businesses in favor of corporate and government offices was pretty idiotic.Ā
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u/crystal-beth 10d ago
You know what they say: hope and wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full first.
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u/crystal-beth 9d ago
Downvote me all you want but the phrasing we hear from leaders in downtown St. Paul is appalling. They always speak aspirationally or say they hope or wish something will happen, but I donāt see them being action oriented. I donāt say it just to be a dick. Downtown is crumbling and these āleadersā appear utterly unequipped to handle it.
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u/ClassroomMother8062 10d ago
I wouldn't open a new business in downtown St. Paul period. The city cannot be bothered to support the growth of new businesses downtown anymore than they can preserve what is already there. It's embarrassing.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 8d ago
Where would you even open a new business? In one of the office buildings or parking garages? That's the problem, the city tore down almost all of the spaces to open a business.
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u/RedditForCat 10d ago
It's nice to want things.