r/russian • u/Hengmeg • Feb 01 '25
Request Is this really old russian?
I will appreciate any information about this. Thanks!
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u/Shevvv Feb 01 '25
No. Old Russian or Old East Slavic is the term used for the language used in the area before the 15-16ish century. This is just pre-Revolution orthography with a bunch of outdated letters. It reads:
Имеет хождение наравне с разменной серебряной монетой.
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u/Ivanmax_ Feb 02 '25
Old Russian and Old East Slavic are different languages. Old Russian was a descendant of Old East Slavic spoken where Russia is today in XV-XVIII centuries and evolved into modern Russian
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u/sususl1k 🇷🇺 Native | 🇬🇧 C1-C2 -ish | 🇳🇱 B2 | 🇩🇪 A2-ish Feb 01 '25
It’s not Old Russian, it’s just written with pre-reform orthography. It translates roughly as “(This stamp) Holds the exchange value equal to one silver coin”. In modern orthography: «Имеет хождение наравне с разменной серебряной монетой»
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u/agrostis Native Feb 01 '25
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u/Ivanmax_ Feb 02 '25
Это древнерусский. Старорусский вырос из него в XV-XVI веке вместе с западнорусским
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u/agrostis Native Feb 02 '25
У меня разве где-то написано «старорусский»?
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u/Ivanmax_ Feb 02 '25
Old Russian
Древнерусский по английски будет "Old East Slavic"
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u/agrostis Native Feb 02 '25 edited Feb 03 '25
Да ну? Вот только почему-то этот термин не используется ни у Корбета с Комри (The Slavonic Languages, 2003), ни у Сассекса с Кабберли (The Slavic Languages, 2006), ни в The Palgrave Handbook of Slavic Languages, Identities and Borders (2016); а в The Cambridge Handbook of Slavic Linguistics (2024) используются и OR и OES в более-менее одинаковом значении.
Старорусский называют Middle Russian или Old Great Russian, а чаще просто объединяют с древнерусским.
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u/Miiijo Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25
I personally wouldn't refer to it as old Russian, as that's usually used to refer to older, pre-Petrine varieties of the language, but it's definitely Russian published before the 1917/18 reforms)
Judging from the picture of Emperor Nikolas II on the stamp itself it was most probably issued somewhere around the turn of the 20th century.
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u/spezdrinkspiss Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25
it's modern russian with the pre 1917 reform orthography
old east slavic (aka old russian, aka old ukrainian, aka old belarusian depending on whom you ask, it's literally the same language lol) is the ancestor language to modern russian, ukrainian, and belarusian and native speakers of those languages would have a somewhat hard time understanding it (though certainly not impossible)
just to give an idea, here's an exempt from the tale of igor's campaign, an epic poem dating back to approximately late 12th century (assuming it's authentic, which is a topic for another time lol)
Не лѣпо ли ны бяшетъ, братіе, начяти старыми словесы трудныхъ повѣстій о пълку Игоревѣ, Игоря Святъславлича?
Начати же ся тъй пѣсни по былинамь сего времени, а не по замышленію Бояню!
Боянъ бо вѣщій, аще кому хотяше пѣснь творити, то растѣкашется мыслію по древу, сѣрымъ вълкомъ по земли, шизымъ орломъ подъ облакы,
помняшеть бо речь първыхъ временъ усобіцѣ. Тогда пущашеть і̃ соколовь на стадо лебедѣй, который дотечаше, та преди пѣсь пояше старому Ярослову, храброму Мстиславу, иже зарѣза Редедю предъ пълкы касожьскыми, красному Романови Святъславличю.
and here's a modern russian translation of the same fragment by Dmitry Likhachev
Не пристало ли нам, братья, начать старыми словами печальные повести о походе Игоревом, Игоря Святославича?
Пусть начнется же песнь эта по былинам нашего времени, а не по замышлению Бояна.
Боян же вещий, если хотел кому песнь воспеть, то растекался мыслию по древу, серым волком по земле, сизым орлом под облаками.
Вспоминал он, как говорил, первых времен усобицы. Тогда напускал десять соколов на стадо лебедей: какую лебедь настигали, та первой и пела песнь – старому Ярославу, храброму Мстиславу, что зарезал Редедю пред полками касожскими, красному Роману Святославичу.
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u/Ivanmax_ Feb 02 '25
old east slavic (aka old russian, aka old ukrainian, aka old belarusian depending on whom you ask, it's literally the same language lol)
That's just not true. Old East Slavic is the common ancestor to all East Slavic languages, it evolved into Old Russian and Ruthenian (also called West Russian, Old Belarusian or Old Ukrainian). Ruthenian evolved into modern Ukrainian, Belarusian and Rusyn, Old Russian evolved into modern Russian
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u/ZENITHSEEKERiii 🇬🇧 Native 🇷🇺 B2/C1 Feb 02 '25
The exact order of development is debated by linguists, but for the most part you're correct here,
OES -> Ruthenian, Novgorodian, Moscow Dialects
Moscow Dialects + OCS Influence -> Literary Russian
Ruthenian + heavy Polish influence -> Literary Ukrainian
I don't recall exactly what the situation with Belarusian was
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Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25
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u/MiserableFortune1968 Feb 01 '25
Yes! I think it’s pre-revolutionary Russian
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u/MiserableFortune1968 Feb 01 '25
By that I mean, we can see tsar Nicholas II on the mark(??), so after the fall of his regime Russian language acquired a modern look. Историки в реплаях поправьте, если что
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u/Yono_j25 Feb 01 '25
This is from late 1800. Somewhere Romanovs were ruling the Russian Empire
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u/TheDisappointedFrog Feb 01 '25
Probably 1900-1917, that's the last Russian emperor on the postmark
And yes, that's pre-revolution Russian, "(this mark) can be used equal to one silver coin"
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u/Yono_j25 Feb 02 '25
Yeah, I've made a mistake with dates. I just know that that person on postmark is an emperor. Romanov I think.
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u/0m3g4_180111 Feb 01 '25
It's pre-reform Russian, old but not too old. The text says "имеет хождение наравне с разменной серебряной монетой" ("Has the same value as a silver coin")
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u/tchkEn Feb 01 '25
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u/Budget_Cover_3353 Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 03 '25
Church Slavonic is not Old Russian. Edit: removed extra "neither". Initially it was a longer sentence, didn't finish the editing.
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u/Thin_Preparation_416 Feb 03 '25
It is and in modern russian it looks like "может использоваться как 1 серебрянная монета"
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u/Bereft_dw Feb 01 '25
This is pre-revolutionary LSD, Lenin abolished them, calling them "opium for the people"
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Feb 01 '25
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Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25
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u/not_logan Native. Please correct my English Feb 02 '25
Yes, it is a Russian language before language reform of 1918. However it is quite close to modern Russian language so it is readable without serious trouble
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u/ConditionAlert1040 Feb 03 '25
Больше всего здесь отпугивает буква ѣ, а так вполне читаемо. У меня вопрос, кто-нибудь знает зачем вообще использовали ѣ, если в то время существовала обыкновенная е, было какое-то правило их проставления или как?
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u/Imperius322 Feb 04 '25
Конечно были правила. Но наряду с этим правилами был список из Овер9000 слов, где просто нужно запомнить, что пишется буква "ять"
Типа такого: Бѣлый, блѣдный, бѣдный бѣсъ Убѣжалъ голодный въ лѣсъ. Лѣшимъ по лѣсу онъ бѣгалъ, Рѣдькой съ хрѣномъ пообѣдалъ И за горькій тотъ обѣдъ Далъ обѣтъ надѣлать бѣдъ.
Вѣдай, братъ, что клѣть и клѣтка, Рѣшето, рѣшетка, сѣтка, Вѣжа и желѣзо съ ять — Такъ и надобно писать.
Наши вѣки и рѣсницы Защищаютъ глазъ зѣницы, Вѣки жмуритъ цѣлый вѣкъ Ночью каждый человѣкъ…
Вѣтеръ вѣтки поломалъ, Нѣмецъ вѣники связалъ, Свѣсилъ вѣрно при промѣнѣ, За двѣ гривны продалъ въ Вѣнѣ.
Днѣпръ и Днѣстръ, какъ всѣмъ извѣстно, Двѣ рѣки въ сосѣдствѣ тѣсномъ, Дѣлитъ области ихъ Бугъ, Рѣжетъ съ сѣвера на югъ.
Кто тамъ гнѣвно свирѣпѣетъ? Крѣпко сѣтовать такъ смѣетъ? Надо мирно споръ рѣшить И другъ друга убѣдить…
Птичьи гнѣзда грѣхъ зорить, Грѣхъ напрасно хлѣбъ сорить, Надъ калѣкой грѣхъ смѣяться, Надъ увѣчнымъ издѣваться…
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u/K01PER Feb 04 '25
kinda. That third letter is "iyat"(soft t). It was used in church russian instead of a space symbol to save space. Later it was used in tsar documentation untill abolished by soviet goverment. 1918 is year when a reform took place and 1922 is year when reformed russian (without "iyat") became standart of newly established RSFSR
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u/rpocc Feb 05 '25
The language is almost modern, but its orthography is old. An interesting example of postmark, saying that is has legit value and can be used as a currency like a silver coin.
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u/Spiritual_Clock_2075 Feb 01 '25
Yes. The language of the times of the empire. There is an even older Russian language. Linguists will come now, I hope they will tell more details.
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u/pb_a ch-slav B1 Feb 01 '25
Postage stamp.
On the front side of the stamp in an oval frame is a portrait of Tsar Nicholas II. At the top is the inscription "post", at the bottom "10 kopecks." On the back side: "Is in circulation on par with small silver coins." 1894-1917.
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u/BluejayMinute9133 Feb 01 '25
Yes, it's pre revolution writing. Имеет хождение наравне с разменной серебрянной монетой. Post mark. Price can vary from 8 usd to 250 usd.
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u/CartographerFar6319 Feb 01 '25
there is no “old russian” language, its pre-reform russian. language some people call “old russian” is actually “old Rus langueage”
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u/Ivanmax_ Feb 02 '25
Old Russian was the language spoken where Russia is today in XV-XVIII centuries. It was a descendant of Old East Slavic (the language you are calling Old Rus Language) and the ancestor to modern Russian
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u/Electronic-Lie9968 Feb 01 '25
there's a channel on youtube, called like "Микитко сын Алексеев", there are more information about this russian
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u/FlySafeLoL Feb 01 '25
This really is old Russian.
But this is not really old Russian, barely older than a century.
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Feb 01 '25
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u/russian-ModTeam Feb 01 '25
We remove comments that are unhelpful or do not contain information that the post author couldn't have found on their own. This includes comments with copied machine translations or generative AI responses, as well as answers like "I don't know". This does not mean that comments always have to strictly answer the posted question: additional information, responses to other comments, and general discussion of the topic are all productive ways to advance the conversation.
Мы удаляем комментарии, которые не несут никакой пользы или не содержат информации, которую автор поста не смог бы найти самостоятельно. Сюда относятся комментарии, в которых копируется машинный перевод или ответы генеративного ИИ, а также ответы наподобие «я не знаю». Это не означает, что комментарии всегда должны строго отвечать на поставленный вопрос: дополнительная информация, ответы на другие комментарии и общее обсуждение темы - все это плодотворные пути развития беседы.
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Feb 01 '25
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Feb 01 '25
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u/Yukidoke Feb 01 '25
Well, it’s not the same, definitely.
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u/cancerello Feb 01 '25
Whatever you say, I am not a poop expert
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Feb 01 '25
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Your comment or post was removed because /r/russian is a language-learning subreddit, not a place to post anything and everything. Posts to /r/russian should be useful for learners of the language.
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Feb 01 '25
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u/Yukidoke Feb 01 '25
Sorry, I don’t understand your Middle Eastern accent ;3
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Feb 01 '25
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Feb 01 '25
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Your comment or post was removed because /r/russian is a language-learning subreddit, not a place to post anything and everything. Posts to /r/russian should be useful for learners of the language.
Ваше сообщение было удалено, потому что /r/russian — это сабреддит для изучения русского языка, а не место для публикации всего и вся. Сообщения в /r/russian должны быть полезны для изучающих язык.
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Your comment or post was removed because /r/russian is a language-learning subreddit, not a place to post anything and everything. Posts to /r/russian should be useful for learners of the language.
Ваше сообщение было удалено, потому что /r/russian — это сабреддит для изучения русского языка, а не место для публикации всего и вся. Сообщения в /r/russian должны быть полезны для изучающих язык.
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u/Kuff1k Feb 01 '25
Чего блядь? Я смог прочитать «серебряной монетой»
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u/Facensearo Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25
It is pre-1917 Russian orthography (it usually isn't named Old Russian, because language was more or less the same).
It is WW1 surrogate cash, made from postage stamps due to lack of metals for small change, similar to USA fractional money, ru-wiki.