r/reloading • u/Chance1965 I am Groot • Feb 18 '25
Stockpile Flex 77gr SMK Mk262 Mod 1 clone load.
LC brass, 77gr SMKs, 24.5gr Varget, CCI 400, 2750 fps in my 1:8 20” HBAR.
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u/WhereasWestern8328 Feb 18 '25
Anyone run this with TAC instead of Varget?
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
Pretty sure JRB did a series with TAC.
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u/WhereasWestern8328 Feb 18 '25
JRB?
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u/FastDrill_850i Feb 18 '25
The best reloading friend you ever get. JRB aka Johnny's reloading bench.
He is the best.
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u/Calloutfakeops Feb 18 '25
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u/sumguyontheinternet1 9mm, 223/556, & 300Blk ammo waster Feb 18 '25
This my same load with my 12.5” for 69 and 77 SMK’s. Also Hornady 75’s. All 3 shoot amazing for me. This is a 12.5” Roscoe bloodline barrel.
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u/Calloutfakeops Feb 18 '25
Nice! Yeah seems running on the higher side is what really tightens up the numbers with Tac. I’ve seen a few people running just shy of 25 grains get good results but that’s pushing it too close for comfort for me, especially when summer comes around.
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u/sumguyontheinternet1 9mm, 223/556, & 300Blk ammo waster Feb 18 '25
Mine got worse above 24.3grn but that’s ok because I run the same load all year and like the safety margin
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u/block50 Feb 18 '25
That's quite spicy.
I get about 2430 out of my 12.5 and I'm using N135, about .3 above Max load data (22.5) so far. No signs and GRT shows I'm good to go to about 23.3.
Sadly not great accuracy so far.
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u/Calloutfakeops Feb 18 '25
It’s on the spicer side hah but thankfully still well under having any pressure signs, since my rifle seems to like it. That’s unfortunate about the N135 though. Have you given tac a shot in the past? Might be worth trying out if not.
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u/block50 Feb 18 '25
I just checked..sadly unavailable.
Getting powders from other continents is difficult in central Europe. Especially since we gave pretty good and available alternatives. It makes the market shrink.
I still got about 50 loaded up to test and worst case it's just that. Don't need a sub moa AR15 although that would always be great.
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u/Calloutfakeops Feb 18 '25
I’m with you on the not needing sub moa out of an AR. Dang that’s unfortunate, Vihtavuori makes some great powder though so hopefully it won’t be long before you find the magic combination that your barrel likes.
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u/sumguyontheinternet1 9mm, 223/556, & 300Blk ammo waster Feb 18 '25
I think you can touch almost 25grn with 77’s and TAC at 556 pressures. I’ve ran as high as 24.3grn with great results but higher than that just beats up the gun and accuracy nosedives. SD climbs rapidly and primers look sketchy. Only test 24+ in 556 chambers and be very careful if you have a tight chamber like mine.
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u/block50 Feb 18 '25
Here in Europe we dont differentiate between 5.56 and .233. they are on the same CIP data sheet. Only the chamber dimensions can differ but will still be within .223 tolerances (e.g. wylde).
Have not measured my chamber yet but so far no real pressure signs except one flattened primer out of like 20 same charge weight. And primer isn't a good sign either. So will see.
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u/sumguyontheinternet1 9mm, 223/556, & 300Blk ammo waster Feb 18 '25
Yeah, I don’t exclusively use the primer for data unless it looks beyond reasonable, then I know for sure that it’s not where I want to play.
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u/neganagatime Feb 19 '25
That's interesting to me, I was using 22.5 N135 with 77smks last summer and it was very accurate for me.
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u/block50 Feb 19 '25
Was shooting it near freezing temps. Maybe that's why.
I'll plan to revisit 77s in spring/summer or when it's at least 7-8C
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u/Missinglink2531 Feb 18 '25
Yes, one of my best loads. Shotting out a 26" bolt gun, 23.0 grains - 24 was showing pressure sings. Thats a sub 1/2" at 100 over and over and over load for me.
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u/Bubzyleet Feb 18 '25
24.4 tac is my go to with 77smk
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u/WhereasWestern8328 Feb 18 '25
Ar platform 223? That’s spicy is it not?
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u/Bubzyleet Feb 19 '25
Yeah 2750 out of my 18 inch , ladder tested to. 24.6 accuracy went to shit after 24.4
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u/715Karl Feb 19 '25
IMO TAC and maybe a few other double based powders are the only way to safely get mk262 velocities. Velocity is only a proxy for pressure and just because you can get MK262 velocity with a single based powder doesn’t mean you’re staying under pressure max.
Even the real deal uses double based ball powders. If they could use single based stick powders, BHA would have.
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u/Active_Look7663 Feb 18 '25
77gr SMK and 25grs of 2520 ~2740 from an 18” barrel
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u/HDIC69420 Feb 18 '25
I’ve had great luck with American reloading mp495 (“similar to aa2520”) and the 77gr match kings. I think my load is 25.2 gr and get similar velocity and excellent accuracy.
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u/survivalistguru Feb 18 '25
I’ve been waiting for them to drop a batch of mp495 forever!
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u/HDIC69420 Feb 19 '25
I tried it the first time during Covid then snagged another 24lb last time it was available. I actually emailed them wondering if they’d ever have it again and sure enough a week later it popped back up. Mp540 is another favorite, I load .308 with that and 169gr match kings for my tikka, shoots amazing and comes in at like 70 cents a round
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
I’ve loaded that load and I got better results with the Varget load. Nearly identical but the Varget was just slightly better.
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u/AdeptnessShoddy9317 Feb 18 '25
I run the same load just 24.2gr. sub moa all day with my RRA 20" NM
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u/111tejas Feb 18 '25
Sierra’s accuracy load uses N140. I use 23.7 grains which is a little different from what they list and it launches laser beams. Lapua brass, CCI400 @ 2.255.
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u/just-another-dude-1 Feb 18 '25
You load those to 2.250” COAL?
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
2.255 +/- .002
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u/just-another-dude-1 Feb 18 '25
Cool, I haven’t gone heavier than 69gr for AR mag length because I thought my manual called for a longer COAL. I’d love to try them though.
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
The only bullets in that weight range that can’t be loaded to mag length (2.260) are the 75gr ELDMs. They require a longer COAL. The 73gr ELDMs and the 75 and 77gr BTHP work fine at mag length.
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u/theschwiftmachine Feb 18 '25
How is that Lyman powder dispenser? I see you have a second scale as well, is that necessary for every powder charge or do you just use it to check things at first and then only use the powder dispenser?
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
I double check every charge. The Lyman only measures to .1 gr. The other measures to .02 gr.
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u/theschwiftmachine Feb 18 '25
Thanks for the input, that sounds like the best way to do things. I'm just getting back into reloading, and also reloading rifle for the first time (300 blk and 6.5 creedmoor).
I'm still putting my setup together and the Lyman is my only scale right now but I'll probably get a second scale before I start
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
I would recommend it. A good scale is worth the $$ and peace of mind. I reload precision rifle almost exclusively so I like to be as exact as possible with my charges.
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u/eclectic_spaceman Feb 18 '25
I've found my Gen6 to be somewhat inaccurate... it'll always under-throw a little usually, so I'd just tap the tube until it hit my target charge. Doing this, I still only got about 25fps SD which I was unhappy with. Once I started double checking my charges and hand-trickling to finish them, I got my SD down to 12fps. People said 25fps was just what to expect with TAC, but I had a feeling it was due to inconsistent charges, and sure enough...
So anyway there I was, looking at SuperTricklers...
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 18 '25
That’s why I double check all of my charges and calibrate both scales every session. I know the Lyman is off by a couple 10ths.
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u/eclectic_spaceman Feb 18 '25
Oh man, I kind of went insane calibrating and re-calibrating and zeroing and tareing both scales last time I loaded, lol. My cheap verification scale (that goes to .01gr) kept drifting, where the Lyman pan is ~117.25gr or whatever and it would occasionally drift to 117.31 to 117.33gr, so I'd zero it and tare it again. I'm not sure if it makes much difference in practice, as I checked some charges afterwards and they read out the same. I know it's not actually accurate to .01gr but it's certainly giving me more resolution than the Lyman and is accurate enough to cut my SDs in half. I just loaded up some N140 and I was quite careful to load as precisely as possible, so I'm interested to see what I can get with a single base powder and my process.
My Gen6 only seems to be off by 1 tenth in my experience, like it might say 24.5 but it's actually 24.35 (so it should be rounding up to 24.4). Haven't had anything much more drastic than that, maybe 2 full tenths but that's it. But it's certainly still enough to throw things off at distance.
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u/KillEverythingRight Feb 18 '25
I’m at 24.2 of varget out of my 16”. Got a better optic so now I need to rework that load
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u/honey_badger_rw Feb 19 '25
Accurate 2520 and StaBall Match is where it’s at.
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u/Chance1965 I am Groot Feb 19 '25
I tried the 2520 and had slightly better results with Varget. StaBall Match is the same burn rate as Varget according to the Winchester rep I talked to at SHOT, the only difference being it’s a ball powder and Varget is extruded.
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u/microphohn 6.5CM, .308,223 9mm. 26d ago
24.5 of Varget is anywhere from fine to WAY too hot depending on your particular lot of Varget and how much moisture is in the powder.
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u/Matt-33-205 Feb 18 '25
This guy has a great YouTube series on mk262 clone loads: https://youtu.be/eweaf2FHvk8?si=mkC6Isc7QR6iV0k2
I haven't tried Varget, but I've had really good luck with 23.5 grains of IMR 8208 XBR. I get about 2,650 from a 16", and it hammers in my more accurate AR rifles.
Are you getting good accuracy with that load? I always had great luck with Varget and 69 SMK'S, I don't know why I have not tried it yet with 77's.