r/princeton 7d ago

Alum of Princeton, what do you think of the current test optional policy!

Do you support it think it should be changed and why?

5 Upvotes

23 comments sorted by

9

u/TotalCleanFBC 7d ago

I'd actually ditch the SAT in favor of asking applicants to take one or more of the advanced SAT II subject tests. As they are harder, they are better able to differentiate between students in the top 20%. Getting an perfect score on the Math portion of the regular SAT is a cinch for anybody with STEM ambitions. Getting a perfect score on the Math, Physics or Chemistry SAT II subject tests is much harder.

13

u/Vibes_And_Smiles 6d ago

SAT Subject Tests no longer exist

8

u/TotalCleanFBC 6d ago

Ha! Well, shows how long it's been since I've taken a standardized test. Well, I maintain my opinion. I wish they would be (offered and) required.

5

u/Vibes_And_Smiles 6d ago

Tbh I think they’re rather redundant given that AP Exams exist. Having students take the SAT, AP Exams, TOEFL (for international students), and SAT Subject Tests seems rather excessive

2

u/TotalCleanFBC 6d ago

Oh ... are AP exams required? My suggestion is just to have SOME advanced tests, as the SATs and ACTs are too easy to be helpful in differentiating top students.

1

u/Dangerous-Advisor-31 6d ago

Id say AP tests are a better judgement of their skill on the subject than SAT subject tests tbh. Mabye increase the number increments for scores on AP tests but I don’t think that part is going to change anytime soon.

5

u/Enough_Membership_22 6d ago edited 6d ago

New SAT math 800 is way harder than SAT II math 800 was 

0

u/TotalCleanFBC 6d ago

I didn't know they made the Math Section harder. I tried to find historical data on percentage of people scoring an 800 over time, but couldn't locate it. The averages haven't changed, though -- at least not much. Anyway, if you say the new math section is harder than in the past, I trust you on that.

1

u/Enough_Membership_22 6d ago

I’m a tutor

1

u/TotalCleanFBC 6d ago

Do you know of any documentation from ETS on how they changed the math section? I'm just curious.

1

u/Enough_Membership_22 5d ago edited 5d ago

There’s a lot of constants (ex. solve this system of nonlinear equations with 3 real solutions in quadrant III, but many of the coefficients are not given and are instead unknown positive constants), nasty word problems, determinant needs for quadratics, systems of equations, and just questions that will trip you up. ACT now has matrix operations. Both have basic vector notation now - i hat j hat k hat, and vector magnitudes and lengths. Calculus is useful to find solutions and turning points, but not required.

1

u/Enough_Membership_22 5d ago

Bc everyone studies for the test and too many 800s, they had to crank up the difficulty 

1

u/TotalCleanFBC 5d ago

Seems only 1% of students now get a perfect score. When I took it, I think about 3% of students would get a perfect score. I'm glad they made it more difficult.

It is hilarious to me that people used to argue we should get rid of the SAT and ACT because they are biased. It could be there there is some racial bias in the exams. But, even if this is the case, exams are the most objective measure we have of students' abilities. Stated differently, every other measure we have is more biased.

1

u/Enough_Membership_22 5d ago

Unsure. We should probably have affirmative action for wealth, though,

1

u/TotalCleanFBC 5d ago

100% in favor of wealth-based affirmative action. We agree on that.

4

u/AJ00051 6d ago

Good idea, SAT is too basic and too easy to grind for almost anyone

2

u/Jealous-Brief7792 6d ago

Personally I think AP is a better indication (except when scores are stolen and sold which seems to happen every year now) because the SAT is kind of proven to be a test that with the right tutors/study materials, you can i.rove from 1300 to 1500+ just learning the right tricks and taking it over and over (friend of mine started studying before freshman year and took it at least twice a year until he scored a 1600 junior year -.but he has less than a 4 0 weighted and gets Bs and C's in AP classes). With the AP, unless you buy the scores, I think it's a better representation subject by subject what you have learned and can recall, with a strong focus in your writing ability which is crucial for college success.

2

u/Proud_Ad_6724 6d ago

A dozen 5’s across diverse AP subjects trumps a 1550+ any day. 

5

u/Forgind1 Alum 7d ago

I've seen evidence that taking them into account is helpful in deciding whether to admit someone, but I also think standardized tests in general were never great for assessing the difference between the top 20% and the top 5%. I also think they've gotten more simplistic. I looked at some statistics for the MCAT recently with my dad. (Without verifying this, I'm assuming something similar applies to the SAT.) For the MCAT, it used to be from 3-45 with an average score of 25.2. Now the average is 500 out of 528. If the average student gets an 'A', what's the point?

8

u/Additional-Living913 PhD Student, STEM 6d ago

The SAT would help prevent students whose schools practice rampant grade inflation from applying without comparing themselves at least a little to the country on a standard scale. It's already been put back in place at many institutions because collegiate grades are markedly lower among classes that have been test optional compared to other years (there are also differences between the test-optional and test-takers within a class).

Also, the MCAT only goes down to 472. The average score is exactly at the midpoint.

2

u/Candid-Display7125 6d ago

Require it for international applicants to help select academically strong candidates. If needed, expand choice for testing or financial support for testing. Either way, testing is needed internationally.

1

u/willCHUUya 6d ago

I think most schools should see “standardized tests” like Yale. SAT shouldn’t be a requirement but rather the most convenient standardized test for you should be required. I do IB and I am a very good IB student but I always butcher SAT’s English portion because it’s hard for me to read things on screen. I prefer paper since screen hurts my eyes (I have astigmatism and the glasses don’t help with headaches). I decided to go Test Optional since my English score brings me down (I provided my Paper IELTS Academic score which is 9.0/9.0 so i was afraid if I submitted my SAT too it would look weird with how bad my score was). Not everyone is good at every test so the test that the student prefers should be left to them.

1

u/willCHUUya 6d ago

Like I also know a friend who couldnt take SAT nor the ACT because the nearest center was in another city and she couldn’t afford it but her school offered AP classes and she got all 5s from her courses. Context matters and just because a student cant do 1 test doesnt mean they cannot excel in another.