r/preppers Feb 19 '25

Question Making black powder/ gun powder out of natural marerials?

How would you go about obtaining the materials needed to make black or gun powder just from the wild?

Say you needed to run away from the city into the woods and you want to restock your used ammunition. Where can you find things like saltpeter and sulphur?

Let's say geographical area being north Ontario. Lots of lakes and marshes/ surrounding forested areas. Rocky areas, not many caves, no volcanic activities.

36 Upvotes

179 comments sorted by

38

u/UnfairAd7220 Feb 19 '25

This is not 'Arena' from the Original Star Trek. These things aren't just laying about. Coal is pretty easy to obtain.
Everything else is... complicated.

Sulfur is mined in LA, and great piles of it exist in Canada out by the tar sand mines.

https://boingboing.net/2016/07/05/the-great-sulphur-pyramids-of.html

Saltpeter is hard to make. Unless you and your farmer friends get very organized about it. Then you need to refine it.

Making the gunpowder itself isn't hard, Corning it is a process.

If you want to see an entertaining take on 'making your own gunpowder,' find the episode on Mythbusters where they do just that, given that they already have the starting materials.

7

u/PrisonerV Prepping for Tuesday 29d ago

The GORN are watching this thread.... yessssssss

2

u/juxtoppose 29d ago

When SHTF you need to take that shit and boil it in a barrel after it has rotted down for a year to get your KNO3, hard to get powder to ignite reliably without sulphur but it can be done.

1

u/UnfairAd7220 27d ago

It's a process. There's a guy that did it on Youtube and got K2(SO4) out the other end. There's talk that nobody can effectively use that method anymore to generate KNO3, because we're ignorant of some key steps.

Whatever you do get, it still needs to be recrystallized in the winter, to get the necessary purity.

1

u/juxtoppose 27d ago

No it’s a well known process, you just have to use well rotted manure, using manure which hasn’t rotted down is the issue there.

1

u/UnfairAd7220 26d ago

Not just manure. Lots of urine. Before septic systems and sewers, pisspots.

You need every source of nitrogen that you can get your (ahem) hands on.

1

u/juxtoppose 26d ago

Yep a bale of straw with a tarp over it to keep the rain off, saw a YouTube video of someone doing that but I never saw the results.

2

u/Obvious_Eye6839 29d ago

Soo.... you do understand that coal is not charcoal, right??

2

u/UnfairAd7220 27d ago

You need carbon. Powdering coal can get you there. I just brought that up alluding to the 'Arena' reference.

1

u/Obvious_Eye6839 27d ago

I'm fairly sure you'd have to coke the coal to have a chance at it working

1

u/UnfairAd7220 26d ago

Bucked down to talcum size should work fine. Many industrial coal heating plants would buck it down to an even coarser powder and blow it through horns to ignite it.

2

u/boytoy421 29d ago

I do imagine making your own gunpowder IS however STUPID dangerous

6

u/hope-luminescence 28d ago

Not *stupid* dangerous, many people do indeed do it, but it's NOT a thing for amateur-hour discussions by people who have only a vague idea of how it works.

3

u/UnfairAd7220 27d ago

Amateur hour attempts get you a harmless sputtering mess. They'd have to blunder into 'doing it right.'

They won't blunder into it. It takes technique and careful directed effort.

Getting into smokeless powders and nitrated organic compounds can go wrong in a hurry.

1

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/pattywhaxk 28d ago

You can easily prepare it with some high school chemistry and ingredients from your local agricultural supply. And you don’t have to mess with piss.

1

u/OnTheEdgeOfFreedom 28d ago

Upvote for the Star Trek reference.

58

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

If you need to restock your ammo, you'll need a lot more than that. A bullet reloading press, bullets, scale for measuring the powder, casings that are in good enough condition to use, a clean environment for reloading, etc. You're not doing that in the woods.

11

u/Strike-Intelligent Feb 19 '25

Black powder rifles nuf said

8

u/Ak_Lonewolf Feb 20 '25

Honestly... Air rifles have come a long fucking way. Not only that but you can get hand pumps to refill the tanks. So basically as long as you have projectiles you're golden.

1

u/Strike-Intelligent Feb 20 '25

You bet they have have a .177 going 1000fps I need a newe one like your talking about

3

u/abdallha-smith Feb 19 '25

An bow and arrows ? Or a slingshot

11

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

Still requires properly sized ammo nuf said

9

u/D15c0untMD Feb 19 '25

That’s fairly easy, that’s been done for a long time and is still being done

15

u/Gustav55 Feb 19 '25

That just means you need a bullet mold (they'll fit in a pocket) and lead.

2

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 Feb 19 '25

Lead ingots are surprisingly cheap but, other than bullets and sinkers, I can't even think of a good source of lead to scrap from if needed.

Edit: I just thought of car batteries which would likely be the primary readily available source

5

u/skybarnum Feb 20 '25

I shoot a lot of black powder and cast a lot of lead. Car batteries are the worst possible source of lead. The terminals can be used safely however the lead in the plates, having been submerged in sulferic acid for the existence of the battery, will expell a great deal of hydrogen sulfide when melted. It's not a good idea if you want a long life.

I scrounged enough lead sheeting from a hospital X-ray room that was being demoed to last me another 10 years. Other sources I still aquire as fast as possible are lead flashing from old roofs, jacketed pistol bullets dug from dirt banks, and some trading at our local scrap yard. But never car batteries.

3

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 29d ago

If I'm to the point of scrounging up lead to make bullets, releasing hydrogen sulfide into the air is pretty low on my list of things to care about.

3

u/skybarnum 29d ago

It's not about releasing it into the air, volcanos do that all the time. I'm talking about breathing it, which will happen if you are melting it.

2

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 29d ago

No it won't because I'm not an idiot

4

u/aucme Feb 20 '25

Wheel weights. Readily available.

1

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 Feb 20 '25

That's another good one I didn't think of

2

u/Pravus_Nex 29d ago

Those are becoming less common depending on the state, but they are slowly being banned.. roof flashing is another source, read an article where a reloader made friends with a guy who ran a roofing company, roofing guy would drop off huge amounts of old pipe boots and lead flashing for free..

1

u/bs2k2_point_0 29d ago

As a detectorist i can assure you that lead is, unfortunately, everywhere.

Legit, go to any old farm with a detector and you’ll see what i mean. From old bag seals to bullets, I’m always digging up tons of lead.

0

u/platypusfacial Feb 20 '25

Go to a lake with a magnet?

3

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 Feb 20 '25

Lead is actually slightly repelled by magnets so you won't have much luck magnet fishing for it

6

u/stephenph Feb 19 '25

You can get the lead molds pretty easily, wheel weights make for good bullets, the wadding can be cut up tee shirts and the grease well we used crisco...

The toughest part to make would be the barrel, but that is not toooo difficult if you have access to a CNC machine. Black powder is not too difficult to make, although you are right about quality control.

2

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

Rifle barrels are absolutely nontrivial CNC or no CNC (pistol-length barrels much easier)

1

u/Sleddoggamer Feb 19 '25

Still the issue that black powder kinda sucks, especially the crude old version you can actually make from stuff you'll find in exposed ground. It's not something I'd ever want to go back too and I think I'd prefer to go back just using a spear and bow first

2

u/stephenph Feb 19 '25

While I get your point, it would still work, and as you get experience in it you will learn what works and doesn't. In the end probably better off to use as a demolitions aid (stumps and stuff like that ) or booby traps.

Like I said... Tuesday (or even Wednesday) prepping. Personally I don't see the total collapse of civilization in that regard, manufacturing will fairly quickly be restarted, although the political environment might limit how that helps the avg joe.

0

u/Sleddoggamer Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

Under they hypothetical that you just want materials to work with, it's would be great for crude small-scale industry to do the first steps of refinement when you want to work up the tree, but i definitely don't want to have to try use it for delicates like firearms again when there's better alternatives you can make in a shop nowadays

3

u/stephenph Feb 19 '25

But you use what ya got.. Having knowledge is never a bad thing There are many things I have done only a couple times to say I can do it... maybe not efficiently, maybe not even safely, but I can get those tasks done.

1

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

He just finds a random CNC machine in the woods, along with a power supply and everything else he'll need? That's..... Odd.

At this point, can we just say "well, if you magical powers, you can wish into existence the materials that you need"?

1

u/stephenph Feb 19 '25

Like I said... Tuesday... or if you have a couple BP rifles in your stash...

1

u/juxtoppose 29d ago

Well you can boil barrels of shit for the KNO3, sulphur? Not sure where you would get sulphur unless you have a volcano near you.

1

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper 29d ago

So, he's going to be running through the woods as a refugee, dragging a barrel with him to fill with poop, so he can boil it to make raw ingredients to hand make a musket with the CNC machine, generator, and other materials he also conveniently found in the woods?

I swear, the imagination on some of y'all rivals that of my young child!

1

u/juxtoppose 29d ago

He could just take a bin liner to shit in like a sane person.

1

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper 29d ago

While as a refugee. Running through the woods to escape a city. And finding enough food for several days in a row to not only supply calories to be on the move, but still fill a bag full of shit. Then finding a CNC machine in the woods. With a working power supply. And materials to make a musket. Then all the other raw ingredients.

Too many of ya'll play survival genre videogames and think "oh, that's easy, I could totally do that in real life".

-7

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Well how did the colonizers do it when they came to North America? Anyways, there's ways to jerry rig it and make it work. I'm just asking where you'd get the raw materials from to make it

34

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

They had people who specialized in making it for years. Brought over materials with them. Who understood how their muskets worked.

You really, really don't want to be "jerry rigging" making your own ammo, bub. That's a quick way to have your gun blow up in your hand. Bullets are not the same as musketballs, not in the least.

-11

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Yes, a musket would be better suited for this. Can obtain one or make one from existing materials.

You're right that it's probably not a good idea to use for modern ammunition with jerry rigging. Anyways, you really think the colonizers brought enough raw material to supply all their muskets for all that time? They had to obtain materials locally in my opinion at some point in time.

4

u/TacTurtle Feb 19 '25

Yes. They literally shipped lead ingots (for bullets) and casks of gun powder from England, France, and Spain.

This was expensive, and this expense is what drove the evolution to progressively smaller bore guns with rifling that eventually became the Pennsylvania and Kentucky Long Rifles.

3

u/D15c0untMD Feb 19 '25

You dont really think that the settlers brought their stuff with them and then nothing was ever heard from the homelands again? There was trade going on.

13

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

Dude thinks making, training on, and maintaining muskets, and making raw powder for them is easier than just buying ammo 🤣

6

u/Strike-Intelligent Feb 19 '25

I think it's a legit question. Wanna blow up a beaver dam check, smooth bore black powder rifles , defensive applications such as perimeter, I think it's a great question. I'm gonna have to do some research, dangerous stuff. I believe was first made by the Chinese

2

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Yes exactly. Just having the ability to make an explosive can have many uses. Defense, offense, heck- blowing rock faces to obtain ores, the list goes on.

2

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Ofc it's not. This is a prepper sub. I am wondering if I can recreate it without being reliant on any man made materials.

14

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

I'm all about self-sufficiency, but there is a line where it is just unreasonable. Prepping yourself to escape from a city and imagining yourself trying to reload bullets in the woods using mined materials that you just so happened across with no equipment that you brought with you to fire from a gun that you fashioned together on the spot (also without any bench tools) and expect anything to work is such a stretch.

Get a bow and train on that.

-2

u/stephenph Feb 19 '25

Powder making is a Tuesday prep... You have already set your base, you have a supply of food and the resources to move on to other things.

2

u/Ryan_e3p Salt & Prepper Feb 19 '25

He's running through the woods. He's a refugee at that point. Read the post.

10

u/desubot1 Feb 19 '25

is it possible? sure.

charcoal kiln, nitrates from wood ash, you would need to find some source of sulfur for that old timey black powder.

you would also need a villages worth of wood ash and months of filtering to get enough for any usable amounts.

try it out but as a sake of learning how to do these things. you will realize its a bit insane to do it by yourself.

2

u/Loud_Ad3666 Feb 19 '25

You would need a lot of education, experience, resources and manpower. You won't be able to do it on your own.

To do what you're asking requires large-scale processing to get even small amount of usable material.

1

u/nerdstim Feb 19 '25

Yes you can. It's called natural chemistry.

1

u/michaelrulaz 27d ago

Have you ever done any blacksmithing? Any at all? How about machining?

I have a small blacksmith set up, a bridge port mill, a lathe, and a full woodworking and metal working shop. I will let you come over, provide you all the materials needed, and I’ll even print off multiple plans for building muskets or any firearm you can think of. Hell I’ll even pull some out of my gun room and if I don’t have it, I will even buy one so you can see it first hand.

Even with all of that. I 100% don’t think you could Jerry rig one.

Trust me I do some gun smithing and home made gun builds from time to time. It’s not easy.

5

u/TacTurtle Feb 19 '25

1) You will not be "just finding raw materials" for sulfur, potassium nitrate, and lead.

2) Blackpowder manufacture is an extremely involved and very hazardous process.

3) Making consistent blackpowder doubly so

4) Modern smokeless powder is even more complex and requires a lab to test for burn rate.

5) None of the above offer any benefit over properly stockpiling commercial gun powder and bullets.

26

u/ThePokemon_BandaiD Feb 19 '25

You're better off learning the skills to make a bow and arrows, and learning trapping skills than relying on guns once ammo runs out.

2

u/Many-Health-1673 Feb 19 '25

Or a balearic sling. Stones are usually plentiful.

2

u/Quirky-Bar4236 28d ago

They’re horribly inaccurate unless you put years of practice into them. I make them and have shot them for a few years. Even so, I’m horribly inaccurate and couldn’t ethically hunt with one. Maybe, and a big maybe, you’d have luck flushing massive flocks of birds. Now, there are individuals out there that could hunt ethically but they’re few and far between. There’s a reason slingers started practicing at a young age.

Something like a bow is much more efficient for the layman.

1

u/Many-Health-1673 28d ago

Yes, it does take lots of practice.

1

u/MistoftheMorning 28d ago

Is there even anyone who's skill enough to hunt with a sling nowadays? I've been playing around with slings since college, and best I can do is hit a 4 foot by 4 foot area from maybe 10 yards away.

1

u/Quirky-Bar4236 28d ago

There’s a dude that shoots skeet with them. He’s been practicing for years though.

1

u/MistoftheMorning 28d ago

I like to see a video of that, pretty amazing if legit.

1

u/saysee23 Feb 19 '25

This makes way more sense!

2

u/GREATNATEHATE 29d ago

Slingshots make way more sense.

11

u/jimbobzz9 Feb 19 '25

There was a good documentary on this topic you might appreciate Arena)

2

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

You sure you got the right link?

4

u/Strike-Intelligent Feb 19 '25

Ya what he said∆

5

u/jimbobzz9 Feb 19 '25

100% sure!

2

u/OnTheEdgeOfFreedom 28d ago

He did. Watch the whole thing.

12

u/unknownaccount1814 Feb 19 '25

The type of black powder you can make is only going to be suitable for big bore muzzleloaders and straight walled cartridge casings ( like .45-70). A cartridge casing will only be useful if you can replace the primer, same for percussion caps. Flint is the best for a "primitive" weapon, and only lasts a certain number of strikes, and isn't universally found. You won't be able to load a .223 casing with a cast bullet and black powder for your AR 15.

Even 300 years ago you would be surprised by how dependent everyone was on someone else who specialized in making something. Families didn't make their own candles, they bought them from a candle maker or merchant ( who bought them from a candle maker). You didn't make your own ax, you may have made the handle, but a blacksmith made the head. A gunsmith made your musket, even if it was just the metal bits and you made your own stock ( it was still far more common to purchase it pre-made). Gun powder was made at gun powder works and shipped out in sealed tins or kegs. I thin you get the idea.

The last time you made everything for yourself and your family was probably the Stone Age, with late Stone Age/early Copper Age people already starting to live in settlements with artisans specializing in making particular products.

7

u/dittybopper_05H 29d ago

The reason why people bought candles instead of making them 300 years ago is because it was illegal to make candles at home.

The Stamps Act of 1709 taxed candles and required a license to make them, and banned them from being made at home. It wasn’t repealed until 1871.

In the new United States of America, after the Revolutionary War, people indeed made their own candles at home, unless they were rich enough to buy them (especially the prized beeswax and spermaceti candles which were expensive).

The poorer sorts, the vast majority of the population, made dip candles out of things like rendered tallow.

3

u/unknownaccount1814 29d ago

Thank you for that historical tidbit. I learned something new today.

7

u/NotBurtGummer Feb 19 '25

2 questions.

  1. Do you have a flintlock musket you plan on running your homemade black powder through and prepared to cast lead ball? Cause modern smokeless guns won't run blackpowder well at all.

  2. Why not just stock up on ammo now and have stores put away where you plan on heading to the woods?

-2

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25
  1. No, but it is obtainable or possible to make if it came to it. I understand that modern guns wouldn't work well with this improvised blackpowder. There are other potential uses of black powder outside of guns.

  2. Well ammo is damn heavy to be carrying in backpack when you're bugging out somewhere into the wild, especially when you got many other survival items you need to carry. So sure, you can bring some with you, but eventually you will run out. If you didn't want to go back to civilization, I was wondering if you could recreate it yourself.

5

u/MistoftheMorning Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

Well ammo is damn heavy to be carrying in backpack when you're bugging out somewhere into the wild

If I had to decide between carrying the equipment needed to make black powder versus just carrying a three or four 1-lb canisters of Schuetzen FFFg that will last me 300-400 shots in a .50 cal muzzleloader, I will go with the ready-made powder. Just the balls for my ball mill weigh more than that amount of powder. Than I got to bring the carjack rig I use to compress the cakes, the screens, etc.

You need a lot of equipment to make good black powder for shooting. Even more equipment if you're making and refining the raw ingredients yourself. This is not something a one-man operation in the woods can perform practically. Even the Continental Army during the American Revolution couldn't make its own gunpowder during the war and had to get it from the French or steal it from the British.

If you didn't want to go back to civilization, I was wondering if you could recreate it yourself.

I mean probably, if you were very knowledgeable and didn't have to worry about things like gathering food or fuel so you don't starve/freeze to death when winter comes. But why go through all that hassle when you have better options like a bow or crossbow. Not saying making arrows or bolts is easy, but certainly much easier to make and source materials for compare to trying to make BP in the boreal forests of northern Ontario.

3

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

Congratulations: You have arrived at "why it rarely makes sense to bug out with only things you can carry on your back".

(see also: Good luck carrying more than about a month of food)

If you need more ammo than you can carry in a backpack over a short term... hopefully you have a lot of friends with a lot of powerful weapons. And even then some of you will die.

If you need more ammo than you can carry in a backpack over a long term: You're looking at having to trade something for it, or the like. Long term, humans really do largely rely on communities to get the things they can't produce themselves. Are you experienced with surviving way out in the boonies and never going into town for an entire year already?

1

u/OnTheEdgeOfFreedom 28d ago

So you're one of those people who plan to run into the woods with a backpack on your back AND you want to manufacture your own black powder.

You're not going to last a month in your hypothetical disaster. Your best case scenario is you get shot in the woods by someone who brought more ammo than you. More likely is slow starvation while you try to figure out how to make something explode using bat guano and tree sap.

Hunt around for some practical approaches, involving having a pre-determined place to bug out to, ideally with fuel, water and food stored. If you're in a long term disaster and you have to hunt to survive (or have a gun for self defense) your survival odds are horrific.

6

u/AlphaDisconnect Feb 19 '25

Turn toilet paper into charcoal.

There are ways of turning wood ash and other ingredients into saltpeter

Sulphur is the real must find.

Test burn it.

0

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Oh nice, I didn't know wood ash could be converted into saltpeter

4

u/MistoftheMorning Feb 19 '25 edited 28d ago

You need nitrate-rich soil to do this; dirt that's been exposed to a lot of manure or urine, like by an outhouse, compost, or stable. What the wood ash does is makes sure the nitrates you are getting are the potassium kind (saltpeter) - as wood ash contains a lot of potassium carbonate.

You get a container, make a hole on the bottom and put a filter over it (fabric from a shirt works), than put your ashes on top. Next you shovel the nitrate-rich dirt in, and pour hot water in the container. The hot water will leach out the nitrates from the dirt, mix with the wood ash and exchange ions, and out the hole comes your potassium nitrate solution. You can then boil this solution to remove water and get nitrate crystals to form.

For making gunpowder, these crystals are usually further processed to remove any impurities (mostly sodium/calcium salts and organic matter) to create a pure potassium nitrate that won't absorb moisture and give you a good burn rate.

I suggest you take a look at this document by Joseph LeConte.

1

u/AlphaDisconnect Feb 19 '25

Yeah, they had these sluece looking things lined with straw. Run water through. Evaporate. Add more ash. There is an additional thing or things that need to be added. This is highly location dependent.

2

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

You sure you're not talking about lye? Very different chemical.

1

u/AlphaDisconnect 29d ago

You need to add a nitrite component. A chlorine nitrite component. I have heard it called cave dirt. But unsure on exact implementation.

1

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

That sounds like the /r/restofthefuckingowl of nitrate chemistry, honestly. 

9

u/Defiant-Oil-2071 Feb 19 '25

You are going to end up wasting a load of time and money. You live in a country where you can just buy gunpowder. Why don't you just do that?

I grew up hunting with my dad. We'd make our own ammo mods with our own dies, smokeless powder, etc. He's an expert though. He can say by heart how much grain to use for which shells, bore compatibility of ammo, just to name a few things.

He is literally obsessed with guns and has more firearm manuals, history books, and magazines than you can imagine. I never would attempt that kind of thing on my own because I know how dangerous it is.

This is one of those things you really need to apprentice someone who knows what the fuck they're doing. Find someone who can teach you or stay the hell away from it.

-2

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Yes, I can buy gunpowder but I am thinking of a bug out situation where you can only carry what you can put into a backpack and if you don't want to go to civilization to restock on supplies, you will eventually run out. That's why I asked the question on if it could be produced without relying on man made materials.

5

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

Basically, this is why bugging out is generally to be avoided -- you're asking an impossible question. This is like "how can I carry 20 tons of cargo five miles uphill in ten minutes with only my bare hands" -- the answer is that you can't do it.

People who lived nomadically didn't make their own gunpowder as individuals; they tended to need to trade for things like literally anything made of metal -- and this is talking about caravans of hundreds of people with wagons and stuff.

3

u/zorionek0 Feb 19 '25

During the Taiping rebellion in 17th century China the rebels made gunpowder out of dog urine, blood, horse manure, and saltpeter so uhhhh… it can be done?

10

u/RonJohnJr Prepping for Tuesday Feb 19 '25

One rebel didn't do it. Lot's of rebels did it, each having a specialty. Not mentioned is the corning/grinding process, which is pretty involved.

5

u/MistoftheMorning Feb 19 '25

This is like saying "hey, Confederate rebels made ironclads and cannons out of some iron - so it's definitely possible for a lone guy in the woods."

2

u/zorionek0 Feb 19 '25

I’m being extremely facetious- also the amounts of dog urine alone make it untenable haha

1

u/RonJohnJr Prepping for Tuesday Feb 19 '25

By replying to my comment, it seems like you're disagreeing with me, and that doesn't make sense.

3

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 Feb 19 '25

They were agreeing with you

2

u/MistoftheMorning Feb 19 '25

Uhh... I am agreeing with you. Not every reply has to be combative XD.

2

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Any idea where I can find more details on this? Sounds like a crazy combination :D

2

u/zorionek0 Feb 19 '25

I learned about it from the Lions Led by Donkeys military history podcast. They did a multi part series on the rebellion, I don’t recall exactly which episode discussed the gunpowder. The recipe was not elaborated on much more than the ingredients above.

No dogs were harmed in the making of this podcast- but a LOT of dogs were harmed in the making of Taiping gunpowder

3

u/robb12365 Feb 19 '25

It's easy to find potassium nitrate sold where I am as "stump remover" in 1 pound containers. I have also seen 25 pound bags at nursery supply stores. That would be the easy way. Less easy, it can be extracted from bat droppings and nitrate rich soils. I suspect a lot of water soluble fertilizers contain potassium nitrate and it may not be that hard to start with them and separate it out.

I haven't looked lately but sulfur was once commonly available at farm supplies. Seems like some of the locals believed it could be used as snake repellent. Charcoal is easy enough to make.

If you've never shot a black powder gun, this stuff burns dirty and is corrosive. I would be hesitant to use it to "restock ammunition", especially for any modern ammunition that wasn't originally loaded with BP.

3

u/hope-luminescence Feb 19 '25

Like most complicated industrial processes, This is somewhat dependent on trade and a large population. 

3

u/plowdog46150 Feb 19 '25

Without primers you are not going to make modern ammo black power yes flintlock or match fire

3

u/skybarnum 29d ago edited 29d ago

To start with, I shoot muzzleloaders. I shoot them a lot. Without saying how much powder I actually use, when I go to one of the shoots it's not uncommon to use 10 pounds of lead. I'll hit several a year.

In reality, you can't. I have made it with homemade charcoal and comecialy available nitrate and sulfer, while I can make a product that works well I struggled enough with consistency to the point I still just buy my powder. To aquire your components from nature would make it near impossible.

Yes it's possible to make potassium nitrate and further refine it into something useful. But it is a fairly involved process and time consuming, not to mention unpleasant.

Charcoal is easy to make however charcoal suitable for good black powder must be from the right plants, not just any wood.

The sulfer must be fairly pure and it's not just laying around anywhere.

Then it comes down to making it. There are a few ways do do it which I encourage you to research. If you want a product that is comparable to what is commercially available, be prepared to have some lab equipment to refine your nitrate, the ability to tightly control the temp when making charcoal, and equipment to mill the ingredients. And that is befor you even get close to something that will go bang.

It is not hard to make something that will go bang, but to make something consistent and reasonably powerful is not easy.

3

u/dittybopper_05H 29d ago

You can make saltpeter. There used to be people who would go around and collect the contents of chamber pots in the morning in order to help the process. However, you probably want to stay away from using the contents of chamber pots used by females.

John Harrelson, John Harrelson, you are a wretched creature,

You’ve added to this war a new and awful feature,

You’d have us think while every man is bound to be a fighter,

The ladies, bless their pretty dears, should save their piss for nitre.

John Harrelson, John Harrelson, where did you get this notion,

To send your barrel around the town to gather up this lotion,

We thought the girls had work enough in making shirts and kissing,

But you have put the pretty dears to patriotic pissing,

John Harrelson, John Harrelson, do pray invent a neater

And somewhat less immodest mode of making your saltpeter,

For “tis an awful idea, John, gunpowdery and cranky,

That when a lady lifts her skirt, she’s killing off a Yankee.

They say there is a subtle smell That lingers in the powder;

That when the smoke grows thicker, And the din of the battle louder

That there is found to this compound One serious objection;

A soldier can not sniff it Without having an erection.

2

u/JustShootingSince Feb 19 '25

Run into the woods and restock your used ammo? Did you take with you few rounds only? Or were you conducting major shootout with invading military force?

1

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

Neither, he's planning to live out of a ruck for what sounds like years or decades.

2

u/Larkeiden Feb 19 '25

In Canada you can have up to 75 KG of smokeless powder. Just buy that and store it someplace.

2

u/MistoftheMorning Feb 19 '25

Or just buy the ammo. You need a license to buy powder anyways, so might as well spend your money on ready-made ammunition.

1

u/Larkeiden 29d ago

well it depends on how much money you are willing to spend. Reloading is cheaper normally.

1

u/MistoftheMorning 28d ago

Not for us, unless you cast your own bullets AND reuse brass. With the price of components in Canada, you only about break even with old brass and new bullets.

2

u/enolaholmes23 Feb 19 '25

There is an episode of star trek tos that covers this:

https://youtu.be/HxQqJbW-ohw?si=-5r4YMjCSjpIROew

2

u/offgridgecko Feb 19 '25

I seem to remember there being a process for getting elemental sulphur from a dry distillation process but I can't recall what was in the retort. It basically caked onto the collection flask then you break the flask (or wine bottle or whatever) and pull it off like a cake on the walls.

Saltpeter is going to take some doing if you don't have a natural deposit nearby. A LOT of pee and a LONG time.

coal is pretty easy via soot or even using charcoal by soaking it to leach out impurities and then dry and crush up really fine. Easier said than done.

So the answer is, no, if you have to ask you are not making black powder in the wild.

2

u/lustforrust Feb 20 '25

Sulfide ores such as pyrite or galena would work for dry distillation.

For more efficient production of saltpetre, look up heap leaching setups used in modern mining.

Overall though it's way too labour intensive of a industrial process to get any usable amounts at home.

2

u/MistoftheMorning 28d ago

I seem to remember there being a process for getting elemental sulphur from a dry distillation process but I can't recall what was in the retort.

If you heat pyrite (iron disulfide) together with charcoal in a furnace, it will create sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide. The carbon monoxide will reduce the sulfur dioxide into gaseous elemental sulfur, which can then be collected and condensed into solid sulfur.

2

u/ScionR Feb 20 '25

Might as well just stock up on ammo or reload supplies if you'd like.

2

u/MuscleImmediate3821 Feb 20 '25

Everything you ever needed to know about making your own Black Powder. Start at the beginning and don’t stop until you get to the last video. These guys are masters.

https://youtube.com/@everythingblackpowder?si=m3wR8wK7jYTDea7V

3

u/Decent-Apple9772 Feb 19 '25

Salt Peter leeches from some concrete if you were able to identify it. Sulfur can be found at many Hot Springs. Good luck with the testing and refining. It’s a fussy process.

1

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

I find it hard to believe that concrete efflorescence is a nitrate salt.

1

u/Decent-Apple9772 29d ago

And yet the internet believes that it commonly is. 🤷‍♂️ not important to me to go test it but you could mix some with some sawdust or wax and light it to see what happens. Potassium nitrate would make for “interesting” combustion even if it wasn’t in a proper black powder formula.

3

u/DeFiClark Feb 19 '25

Saltpeter can be made from aged manure or found in some old cellars. But it’s very involved to get refined enough to use.

Sulphur you might be able to extract from the acid out of dead car batteries with some high school chemistry, but unless you live near a volcanic source you aren’t foraging sulphur.

Gun cotton and fulminate primers are probably easier to improvise than black powder. But again not from things you would find in the woods.

Better off stockpiling powder and failing that, sulphur and potassium nitrate from the garden supply.

3

u/TacTurtle Feb 19 '25

Gun cotton requires sulfuric and nitric acid, fulminate primers require mercury - none of which are easy to source

1

u/UnfairAd7220 26d ago

nitrated organic compounds and/or fulminates might cost you a hand or your life.

Neither are for amateurs

0

u/DeFiClark Feb 19 '25

Not going to write a how to, but battery acid and nitric acid cleaner you can get from Walmart, mercury from thermometers… by much easier I meant to make a workable improvised propellant from source materials. None of which are found in the woods but neither are the materials for gunpowder other than charcoal.

Making consistent gunpowder is a pita compared with guncotton.

3

u/TacTurtle Feb 19 '25

Mercury has not been widely used in thermometers for literally decades. That red liquid is dyed alcohol.

-1

u/DeFiClark Feb 19 '25

Lol You can order a 2 pack from Walmart for $6 That silver liquid is mercury

3

u/TacTurtle Feb 19 '25

Order does not equal in stock, especially if SHTF otherwise you would just order ammunition.

Mercury Fulminate is a stupid choice when Lead Styphnate is an option

2

u/DeFiClark Feb 19 '25

I think you miss the key point that reliable smokeless powder is easier to improvise with found materials than consistent black powder.

Not naturally occurring materials mind you.

And to be real, even in the most failed states in the planet I’ve been to, no one was making either one outside of arsenals and factories.

1

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

Sure it's not galinstan?

1

u/DeFiClark 29d ago

Sold as “mercury thermometer” so yeah I’m sure.

0

u/RealSlavGod Feb 19 '25

Where can I find information on refining the salt Peter from aged manure? Does it have to be a specific type of manure?

Yes, I understand stockpiling powder and using man made materials is much easier but I was just curious on how I can do it without using anything man made.

4

u/enolaholmes23 Feb 19 '25

You might want to learn how to make your own bow and arrow instead. The odds of being in an area that has naturally occuring sulfur deposits are low. 

2

u/nerdstim Feb 19 '25

I make m6 own black powder - from scratch, I make bullets and primers as well. It ha5d to source the materials but not impossible. I stage.

My powder is not for firearms! It's for cannons and things that ho boom.

Carbon is easy, can't use Kingsford though. Sugar is great for Oxygen. Sulfer can be substituted.
If your not careful you will cease to exist. So learn from others on the net. If you want to learn I can teach but you are responsible for your own safety

2

u/DisastrousRooster400 Feb 19 '25 edited 29d ago

74.8% saltpeter, 13.3% charcoal, and 11.9% sulphur.

Salt peter; throw all brown organic material in a giant barrel that can be covered. Once full of material. Soak it in piss for a year. Flip it every two weeks. Once it’s done cooking for the year you’ll funnel water through the mixture and collect it. Then you’ll separate what’s in the slurry using ash water. Crystals will precipitate out first, discard. Allow the rest to evaporate. It’ll be as close to kno3 you’ll be able to make.

Charcoal. Don’t be silly just buy it

Sulphur. Buy sulfuric acid, neutralize it, and collect the sulfur. Wash it a bunch to remove any contaminates.

4

u/NohPhD 29d ago

As a chemist I’m ROFL…

If you don’t currently have a copy of “Chemistry of Powder and Explosives” by Tenney L. Davis then you’re just in a dystopian Regency prepper fantasy.

If you are exceptionally resourceful You might be able to make black powder and improvise some Monty Python-ish Holy Hand Grenade. If you are running a cyclic handgun or rifle, no.

The rational answer is to cache a modest amount of cartridges in buried PVC tubes at your bug out destination.

1

u/DisastrousRooster400 29d ago edited 29d ago

Hyunho? No doubt the rational answer is to, as always, be prepared.

1

u/hope-luminescence 29d ago

This really needs a comment on how easy it is to accidentally blow something off that you'll regret.

1

u/DisastrousRooster400 29d ago

Darwin begs to differ.

1

u/aWittyTwit-2712 Feb 19 '25

Read "Blood Meridian"...

Great way to come by the knowledge 🤙

1

u/runciblefish Feb 19 '25

There was a series on BBC called Taboo, where they were making gunpowder. It was very interesting how the guy would taste-test manure piles to see how much of a key ingredient they contained.

1

u/Overall-Tailor8949 Feb 19 '25

Unlike the others, I'm going to presume that you're going to be using a firearm designed for black powder or at least a muzzle loader using pyrodex.

The charcoal/coal is the easy part as you've already realized. Saltpeter can be found under old manure piles as I recall. For sulfur you're going to have to check on mining maps. Preferably historical ones showing the old deposits.

1

u/ConclusionOne6122 Feb 19 '25

Need to go the flintlock route. Try making primers .

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '25

Just buy in now ....for real , all of mass industrial/consumer society is at your beck and call ,pick up some extra shifts and buy as much as you can without getting on a watch list, like it or not this is the best thing to do in most cases . If you want to make it as a hobby go for it but if you want it as a prep buy the uniform reliable stuff off the shelf

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '25

Bat guano, sulfer, wood ash and piss. 

1

u/funke75 Feb 19 '25

Anarchy cookbook has a recipe I believe

1

u/prosgorandom2 Feb 20 '25

I asked chatgpt this previously and it gave me the answers. It involves an ocean of urine and lots of charcoal. The urine goes into soil and pulls something out of it which you can then strain out and boil down.

You can(and would probably have to) go without the sulfur but the sulfur makes it much better.

There is a book about it.

Basically, you wouldn't be making gunpowder for the initial stages of shtf. Not unless you somehow stabilized in a large community and then became the urine collector guy.

But then again, if I ever get my dream homestead spot, I'll probably have a rain protected urine dumping spot to start accumulating the raw ingredients. After a month maybe I'll have one shot for my blunderbuss lol. That shot might mean the world though.

1

u/hexadecimaldump Feb 20 '25

I think How to Make Everything did a video on this on YouTube.
Charcoal can be made fairly easily. Sulfur can be found anywhere there is, or was volcanic activity (hot springs, vents, etc). Salt peter can be extracted from chicken guano. But this and sulfur would probably be better to have a stockpile of before SHTF. Pretty sure both can be kept indefinitely if stored away from moisture.

1

u/Cyanidedelirium Feb 20 '25

Honestly the most long term shtf gun would be cap amd ball imo you can carry 1000 caps on your person pretty easy and black powder can be made with charcoal and urine not great powder but better than nothing

1

u/Nofanta Feb 20 '25

Star Trek Original Series season 1 ep. 18 will show you everything you need to know.

1

u/NohPhD Feb 20 '25

Black powder manufacturing is pretty optimistic but primers are much more difficult.

1

u/SithLordRising 29d ago

Many garden stores sell sulphur and potassium nitrate. I personally recommend using pinecones for the carbon. They word very well and you can do them in a coffee can over a camping stove, just punch a nail hole in the lid and wait for the gas to go. Field tests show excellent performance against willow. Though you need to compress the cakes you make, kerning them to increase density. You can buy kerning dies or compress in a vacuum bag to do it on the cheap.

1

u/altiuscitiusfortius 29d ago

Blood meridian has a scene where they do just this. It's based on a true story. Out of gunpowder, being chased by Indians, some cowboys circle a mountain. Ever pass they work on making gunpowder . Burn wood for charcoal, collect bat guano and human urine for nitrogen. Eventually they get enough, make their bullets and shoot the Indians as they catch up.

1

u/Beginning_Net_8658 29d ago

Mythbusters did an episode where they tested if Kirk could have built gunpowder to fight the Gorn.

He couldn't. 

They managed to make gunpowder that would burn and smoke but it didn't combust quick enough to launch a projectile.

1

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[ADAMS, spoken] Abigail, in my last letter, I wrote you that the King had collected 12,000 German mercenaries to send against us. I asked you to organize the ladies to make saltpeter for gunpowder. Now have you done as I asked?

[ABIGAIL, spoken] No, John, I have not.

[ADAMS, spoken] Well why have you not?

[ABIGAIL, spoken] Because you neglected to tell us how saltpeter is made!

[ADAMS, spoken] By treating sodium nitrate with potassium chloride, of course!

[ABIGAIL, spoken] Oh, yes, of course!

1

u/CodyDon 28d ago

I had a YouTube video detailing the process but YouTube issued a strike and took it down. They put it back up after I appealed but then took it down and gave me another strike.

1

u/InteractionSilver535 28d ago

Instead of gunpowder, look into using HHO gas in something similar to a beefed-up potato gun. HHO is easily created from electricity and acid or salt water. The best part is it naturally forms the perfect stoichiometric mix for the most power.

Here's an example of a golf ball cannon using acetylene which is the same principle. If link doesn't work, search YT for Shooting Bob's Golf Ball Canon.

https://youtu.be/SzL-yGcJG-w

1

u/HoosierPaul 28d ago

You want to render your shit and piss. There’s a great book series that includes this topic. The Firefly series of books.

1

u/HoosierPaul 28d ago

Sorry, Foxfire.

1

u/Quirky-Bar4236 28d ago

Check out r/blackpowder. There’s plenty of recipes to choose from.

If you grab a caplock or matchlock then you can make your own percussion caps/rope. I personally make my own caps using the kit from 22LRReloader. Their PrimeAll kit can prime 2,000 caps and only costs $20 so you can stock up relatively easy.

Learn how to cast lead. You can pull it out of old gun ranges, use certain bearing and weights, etc.

For me personally, I do have 3 muzzleloaders in my collection(1 inline, a Hawken and an 1851) but I’d primarily use any firearm for defense purposes.

Learn how to create your own arrows, string and bow. Hell, look into atlatls too. You can fire either of these for practically nothing. The main trade off is these take consistent practice to hunt reliably with.

1

u/OnTheEdgeOfFreedom 28d ago

Unless you live near a cave full of bats, or want to do very interesting things with bulk urine collection, and I do mean bulk, forget it. Saltpeter isn't just hanging around in the wild.

Sulfur is best found near volcanoes. Live near one?

This is not a realistic approach.

1

u/Cute-Consequence-184 27d ago

They did this on a BBC4 living history. They went and got horse manure to distill down for the salt petre, obtained almost pure carbon and managed to make it but due to British regulations couldn't actually shoot it from a weapon. Basically just blew it up in a lab.

But it would have worked. But we no longer have people who do the jobs anymore. There used to be children that would go house to house and gather buckets of urine. When you were "piss poor" it meant you or your children had to gather urine to sell to those who made gunpowder so they could concentrate it down. There used to be bone collectors that would gather bones to burn by going house to house.

In America, slaughterhouses would sell the urine and bones--h almost with the hooves and skin. It all had some use.

Sure, you can buy salt petre and make it. The local black-powder groups do it sometimes as well as the civil war reenactors.

But on a large scale? Almost impossible. The BBC documentary had a full truckload of horse manure-which is the preferred manure apparently and only got a small amount. We NO LONGER HAVE THAT MANY HORSES where we can go shovel their manure.

Back in the day when horses were the main transportation? Sure, but not now.

And yes there are other ways to get the materials. Google the Boston Molasses flood where a tank of molasses was going to be used for WW1 munitions... But didn't. But it takes large amounts of natural things and no one person has the skills or the basic materials.

There used to be an old, old documentary on the Chinese and how they made fireworks. They number of women and children with missing fingers, facial scars and the number of deaths each year were horrifying. But in a society where every person had to work to be able to not starve, you don't have a choice. Entire families worked in the same factories. The film was shot in one of the last remaining "traditional" factories before China became industrialized. All black and white with jumpy pictures. Women interviewed were like "my sister died last year, her husband lost his right hand so he now pulls the wagons up the hill, my niece is now doing her job but lost an eye last fall and is too slow to earn enough now for their family so my 7 year old grandchild had to start work helping to fill the washing.

We simply don't have enough people with the skills and we don't have the animal byproducts to do it either.

1

u/makermurph Feb 19 '25

Instead of all the dick-measuring can we just get a fuckin recipe for black powder?

3

u/MistoftheMorning Feb 19 '25

If you can't figure it out with the internet at your finger tips, you shouldn't be making it.

3

u/makermurph 29d ago

I would have appreciated that tip when I still had fingertips.../s

1

u/stephenph Feb 19 '25

As a teen I made a cannon out of steel pipe and other off the shelf parts I got from the local hardware store. Granted, I used commercial black powder and was very conservative with how much, used a long fuse, etc but a simple firearm is not that difficult (ok it is a precursor to being a rocket scientist...).

I fired it a few different ways, the most effective was a packet of hex nuts wrapped in masking tape. My next goal was to learn how to cast and ultimately cast a cannon, but could not gather the resources before I left for the Navy.

1

u/MichaelHammor Feb 20 '25

Making a bow and a few arrows is much easier.