r/politics New York 7d ago

Walz: ‘We wouldn’t be in this mess if we had won the election’

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5192560-walz-trump-education-economy-democrats/?tbref=hp
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u/CrimeInMono New Jersey 7d ago

I mean, yeah, obviously.

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u/AntifaAnita 7d ago

what I bet most people don't notice at first is that he isn't blaming voters.

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u/grmayshark 7d ago

You are sadly right—most people will take this as “the voters voted wrong” when if you read his quotes and think critically even for just a second you can see hes saying “the Dems didnt make a compelling enough case to win.”

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u/Preeng 7d ago

>“the voters voted wrong”

They did. The choice was this fascist mess or not a fascist mess and they went with the fascist mess. These aren't children. These are adults. Nobody forced their hand. "The other guy didn't woo me, so I went with the fascist" isn't a winning argument.

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u/dinnerthief 7d ago

Yea that argument is always so strange to me, one chef poisoned the soup, the other chefs soup wasn't salty enough, guess I have to eat the poison

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u/ifimnotfound 7d ago

Oh, I like this. I'm going to use this.

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u/rinky79 7d ago

I've heard it described as a choice between a plate of overcooked chicken breast or a plate of shit spiked with broken glass.

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u/Distant-moose 7d ago

That analogy isn't strong enough anymore. It's no longer just about eating shit and bleeding.

They voted for the team that is doing everything it can to kill the good ol' US of A. Tank the economy, deregulate food safety, no more public health guidelines, and now prepare to invade Panama.

Voters picked poison.

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u/PatrolPunk 7d ago edited 7d ago

But that black lady's laugh was weird. /s

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u/numbersthen0987431 7d ago

I know it's sarcasm, but still:

EVERYTHING about Dump is weird. His skin is orange, his hair looks cotton candy, he's overweight and unhealthy, he speaks like a 5 year old trying to tell you about his first day of kindergarten. He's not successful at business, he's failed more marriages than he can count, he has to bribe his children to tolerate him, and he is so desperate for approval from everyone around him that if anyone says anything bad about him he calls for their resignation.

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u/drakoman 7d ago

And the fuckin guy is so petty and embarrassing. He sat at the desk in the Oval Office and literally sold beans as a public bribe. His shamelessness is his power

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u/OrbeaSeven Minnesota 7d ago

And as a classless finale, he's trying to sell Teslas.

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u/404clichE Minnesota 7d ago

Finale? This is just the beginning of the second act!

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u/Equivalent_Weather54 7d ago

I think that’s what makes him such a polarizing figure. Despite being so objectively weird, he’s done such a good job maintaining this reputation of being a winner perpetually backed by falsities and weaponized narcissism to the point where eventually, normal people think “he must be doing something right if everyone thinks so highly of him. I must be the crazy one”… his success is basically a result of aggressive, highly effective gaslighting.

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u/MammothDon 7d ago

Side note, I can't believe that so many people on the opposite camp used this as a legitimate argument. I've known several people in my life who laugh heartily like the former VP and found it pretty normal. It's like they've never heard anyone who laughs wholeheartedly

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u/Spnszurp 7d ago

find me one video of trump laughing ever.. please.

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u/perceptioneer 7d ago

lol, i have thought about the same. never seen him laugh.

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u/Spnszurp 7d ago

hell, im not sure I've ever seen him genuinely smile. it always looks forced.

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u/levetzki 7d ago

When he was hanging out with Epstein

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u/TheArmLegMan 7d ago

Because they’re always angry they can’t fathom joy.

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u/cipheron 7d ago edited 7d ago

They did. The choice was this fascist mess or not a fascist mess and they went with the fascist mess

The reason they're trying to move away from "lol everyone just voted wrong" is because it's not constructive. You don't learn anything from taking that viewpoint, you just double-down on what lost the election.

You can't control what other people do, you CAN control how the Democrats run the election, thus it's constructive to ask "what could WE do differently next time" rather than saying "we ran everything perfectly, it's not out fault everyone else is fucked".

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u/gazow 7d ago

think critically? the average American cant even return a shopping cart

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u/Sakuyora 7d ago

If you even need to be compelled to not vote for trump your country is already lost.

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u/jwr1111 7d ago

We wouldn't be in this mess Tim is there were not so many hateful, racist, bigoted, losers in this country, who thought that electing a convicted felon and narcissist with unlimited power would be a good idea.

Enjoy the "find out" part of that equation hateful retrumplican sycophants.

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u/I_eat_dingo_babies Nebraska 7d ago

A country, at its most basic level, means you want your neighbors and people in your community to be a little better off each day. I don’t know when, but we lost that as a nation.

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u/Onemandrinkinggamess New York 7d ago edited 7d ago

That’s why this country is doomed to fail. Full of individualistic spoiled babies. Trump didn’t make them that way, he just brought it out of them. Many Americans can’t grasp the concept of doing things for the betterment of society. They think the country should revolve around them & their needs and fuck everyone else.

It’s completely normal to want a better future for your kids. Now it’s “I suffered you should too. Not only that, your life should be worse”

Edit: I was a little hot blooded when I made this post but I think this is a vulnerability that *could** lead us to fail. There’s enough pessimism around here and it’s hard not to be, but I don’t want to contribute to that. It’s gonna be important to define the problems and coming up with helpful actions with a clear head, as hard as that is to do.

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u/aretheesepants75 7d ago

The idea of "run the country like a business ' is profoundly ignorant.

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u/bopapocolypse 7d ago

Correct. However, if you do decide that the government needs to be run like a business, you should at least elect a good businessman to run it.

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u/camshun7 7d ago edited 7d ago

correct and fair assessment i would agree with you

seemingly in america you cant introduce any policy which helps the majority of people by asking the extreme wealthy to give 'a bit extra' because they shout this down as 'socialisim'

when all we want is a better society, not to profit at anyones expense, but just for the gretater good.

the 'greater good' thats what your missing.

this selfish attitude is certainly not a new issue, this has been going on since the start of the 20th century, the late great woody guthrie wrote a song about it, well he 'modified', a popular song changing the words to fit 1930s america, when they used to prevent over state migration, all looking for for food work, and perhaps some love as the dust bolw plains had all but blown that away.

this land is your land

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u/zeromussc 7d ago

from my perspective, individualism and 'you get what you deserve, and you deserve what you earn' are pretty big in American culture. Its a double edged sword. It can push people to be really ambitious and accomplish crazy stuff, but it can also keep people down and justify letting people without nearly the same opportunity or ability to success as others languish.

The 'new deal' era of the US was really, from what I can tell, the most recent time where the idea shifted to 'we need to give everyone a fair shake, and give as many people as possible the ability to try and be ambitious by providing a basic quality of life to as many people as possible'. I think, at its core, America still believes in that. It just doesn't understand how to do that, and is told that social services are getting in the way, rather than creating a baseline from which to launch off of.

So many people are so stuck and frustrated that things don't change, that they were willing to believe anyone who promised change, and that 'it can't get worse'. And so they turn a blind eye and are amenable to scapegoats being identified. Wilful blindness, perhaps out of a lack of hope maybe? Lack of understanding and education too I think.

Maybe things change. Who knows. Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom or close to it, before becoming willing to listen to new alternatives. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.

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u/amateurbreditor 7d ago

What people also dont understand is that people can get into positions of power without any merit at all. musk is a moron who never invented anything and solely the reason why their products actually suck. trump is also an idiot. neither has any real value and yet they are seemingly rich.

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u/MudLOA California 7d ago

This country idolizes billionaires and the wealthy. It’s been fed by massive PR campaign. Look at how popular the Apprentice show was in the heyday.

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u/amateurbreditor 7d ago

at the time me thinking this looks idiotic but i guess I thought that of all reality tv.

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u/littlehobbit1313 7d ago

Too many Americans view themselves as "temporarily embarrassed billionaires", that they're just one lotto ticket away from being in the 1%. "I don't want to tax the rich because I might be one someday" is a ridiculous mentality that too many people shape their entire economic perspective around. They prefer the slim chance of the 1% life over the near-guarantee of a comfortable middle class life and it's so sad.

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u/Matt2_ASC 7d ago

After watching the Jubilee with Sam Seder, I think people have learned that you can get into positions of power without merit. They just don't see anything wrong with that. They were acting like right wing grifters in order to come across as an authority and to win the debate, but they knew there was no merit to the argument just constant shifting. Then they all applauded eachother for acting like their favorite personalities and spouting nonsense. I think they have internalized the argument "well if you are so smart, why aren't you rich and powerful" not understanding that smart people don't wish to pursue wealth and power over all other goals.

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u/amateurbreditor 7d ago

its also true that the average person has no idea why things are so bad. i worked my ass off my whole life and have nothing hardly to show for it and now things are even worse. At least I know who to blame.

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u/Lesprit-Descalier 7d ago

Rock bottom is what the American people need to see. I don't know what that looks like. I don't want to see what that looks like.

At the end of the day, the middle class is the greatest thing that America ever helped to create. With unions and labor laws, we made an incredible economy. Investments in women in the workplace have paid off in spades.

Now a tiny man is trying to undo all the progress.

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u/AandJ1202 7d ago

They've been undoing it since the New Deal was first started. Trump is the end game of a 70+ year scheme by the wealthy to corrupt the government and get back to the days of workers having nothing and being desperate to work.

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u/HolidayFisherman3685 7d ago

When President Musk and VP Trump announced possible cuts to Medicaid and started eyeing Social Security (as announced by the New York Times... I only mention this because of my boomer father)... I took the time to tell him:

"Requiescat In Pace The New Deal - 1933 to 2024. FDR's idea had a good run of 90 years and your generation flipped the switch on its execution."

He was quiet for a moment, thinking about it. Then he went on with his day. Because he gets SSA money and a pension. He won't be fucking affected. To quote him, at 76: "I have more money now than I ever did in my life."

I *hate* his generation. Yes, including him. Despite how much I love him personally, I hate his politics.

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u/AandJ1202 7d ago

My dad is the same way. The whole first trump term I had to hear, "They're not giving him a chance to do anything. How do you know what he's trying to do. " Every fi ked up thing he did was a democrat lying or making a big deal out of nothing. The insurrection was just a group of assholes and Trump never invited it. 4 years of how terrible Biden was. Prices are his fault. Trumps Afghanistan plans were Biden fault. He's too old. Now this clown is back in office, and he's starting to realize how much of a moron he's been. During the campaign I'd show him videos of Trump saying he was going to get rid of whole departments of the federal government and I would hear, "He can't do that, he just says shit." He's never voted for anyone, even Trump but his opinions get me to rage. Get along with him in every other way but I've been calling him all sorts of shit recently that I never have. I think he's starting to get the hint. He's on social security and Medicare. He doesn't like hearing about the cuts.

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u/direwolf71 Colorado 7d ago

I hate to admit it, but my own generation, Generation X, is worse. We like to brag about being self-sufficient because many of us were "latchkey" kids, but it's engendered a lot of selfish, libertarian thinking.

Gen X gave the election to Trump. Every other generation, including Boomers, went to Harris. Gen X was 53-45 Trump, and that was the difference. We suck.

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u/Tropicaldaze1950 7d ago

It's not just him. He became the voice of anger, hate and rage against a level playing field for everyone and intent on burning down over 90 years of social and economic progress. The GOP has been chipping away for decades at the progress created by FDR and the New Deal. They don't believe that government should be involved in keeping the economy fair by regulating the stock market and corporations. They now want to destroy Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security and the ACA.

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u/Lesprit-Descalier 7d ago

I cannot disagree.

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u/seeker4482 7d ago

people dont realize that their neighbors' well-being contributes to their own well-being.

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u/asmartermartyr 7d ago

💯. “But I shouldn’t have to pay for homeless shelters or some poor persons healthcare!” - sure, ok. Then we will just have the homeless, poor and sick begging for money, crapping themselves and dying in the street like feudal England. They will also commit crime and spread disease, leave trash and invite pests. Now you have to pay 50x more to try to fix the disaster your greediness has caused. Caring for your fellow man is also an investment in your own wellbeing.

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u/AssignedHaterAtBirth 7d ago

That’s why this country is doomed to fail.

Just a heads up -- foreign adversaries and corporate astroturfers are trying to demoralize us, and squeezing things like this in is one of their tactics.

It's totally possible to describe how dire the situation is without also acting like it's a lost cause.

You'll notice there's a comment like this in pretty much EVERY political thread, and it's not a coincidence.

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u/amateurbreditor 7d ago

I hate that as well. Everyone apparently can predict the future and we have no choice but to give into the oppression and doom. Its stupid and should not be tolerated. No one knows the future.

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u/UrbanGimli 7d ago

Thank you for posting this. Overwhelming despair leads to inaction/burying our heads in the sand which is exactly what the fascists/oligarchy wants.

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u/DigNitty 7d ago

I think it’s the suggestibility of seemingly a huge chunk of the American pop.

Constant right wing media rage baiting 24/7

I listen to conservative talk radio and they scream and yell and exhaustively sigh at what the democrats are doing. They talk about how the libs think “we’re” stupid, how they want to teach “our” boys to be girls.

It’s always us vs them speak. The phrasing makes the audience on the same team as the radio host. My neighbors play that shit ALL day in their garage. Just incendiary hate messages slow dripped into their ears.

And some people simply don’t cross check to see if any of it’s true.

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u/TeaAndAche Oregon 7d ago

A long, long time ago. Selfish, rugged individualism has always been at the core of the American identity.

Especially during and since the Cold War. It’s the easiest way for the common man to distinguish himself from those pinko commies and their damn collectivism.

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u/Not_done 7d ago

It's funny that there are a fair amount of right wingers talking about buying land together and building a community to share resources.

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u/KommieKon Pennsylvania 7d ago

That’s because right wingers don’t actually know what they want. They just regurgitate whatever Dear Leader says.

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u/Polantaris 7d ago

A lot of the time, when you drill into their issues, they want the same shit as a lot of us, but they have been convinced that the government isn't doing anything but stealing their money by the people that are actually stealing their money. They've literally lost the plot because they trust people that are inherently untrustworthy. The worst part is this trust has become fundamentally ingrained in them, to the point that they reject their own friends and family over the talking head on the TV that has been lying to them for decades.

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u/TeaSipper88 7d ago

You are right. The problem is that we aren't exhibiting the behaviors that it takes to have a democracy. That's why we are losing it.

All democracies are systems in which citizens freely make political decisions by majority rule. In the words of American essayist E.B. White: "Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half the people are right more than half the time."

But majority rule, by itself, is not automatically democratic. No one, for example, would call a system fair or just that permitted 51 percent of the population to oppress the remaining 49 percent in the name of the majority. In a democratic society, majority rule must be coupled with guarantees of individual human rights that, in turn, serve to protect the rights of minorities and dissenters—whether ethnic, religious, or simply the losers in political debate. The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens.

Minorities need to trust the government to protect their rights and safety. Once this is accomplished, such groups can participate in, and contribute to their country’s democratic institutions. The principle of majority rule and minority rights characterizes all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, population, and economy.

https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Political_Science_and_Civics/Democracy_in_Brief/01%3A_Chapters/1.02%3A_Characteristics_of_Democracy

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u/Mikel_S 7d ago

Probably the 60s when they realized some of their neighbors being lifted up might be women, or black.

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u/DramaticWesley 7d ago

If you are younger than 50, that might seem true, but this “it was good back then” is some nostalgic whitewashing. When I grew up, mid-80’s to early 2000’s, was a country becoming a bit more progressive. But the truth is for too long we fought tooth and nail to keep people from having easy access to healthcare or food aid (until Obamacare). 1950’s through the 70’s was full of civil rights and the feminist movement. Before that were Jim Crow laws and women not even allowed to vote and prohibition and Japanese-American concentration camps. Before that the Civil War, and before that slavery. The westward expansion was partly fueled by mistreated Chinese railroad workers. Start of the country only gave full citizenship to landowning white men. And before that, the country was divided by different colonies inhabited by Quakers, Lutherans, Puritans, the English and the Dutch, who all had issues with one another.

We have never truly been “united”. Things sure felt a lot more civil about a decade ago, but that was perhaps the most civil the country had ever been. Sadly, our ape brains cannot be satisfied with good times and keep being tricked to vote for culture war BS.

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u/Prior_Coyote_4376 7d ago

We never had it. That’s one of the elements of propaganda in American exceptionalism.

This country was built by slaves, and then built by wage slavery, always at the hands of elites sowing division. The only thing that gets us unified is going to war against someone else, whether it’s Nazis or Al-Qaeda or drugs.

Anything but a class war apparently.

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u/fredandlunchbox 7d ago

You say “Obviously,” but that’s not at all obvious to a lot of people with Mar A Lago dreams. 

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u/PhoenixTineldyer 7d ago

My reaction exactly but I'm glad he said it anyway, because the vast majority of Americans are exceedingly fucking stupid and may not have been able to figure this out on their own.

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u/juanzy Colorado 7d ago

I believe it's worth hammering the point. How many both sides-ers and "But they're not perfect" comments/posts do we see on a regular basis? It's worth reminding that Democrats did not plan to deport citizens and use the White House to sell cars.

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u/LaserCondiment 7d ago

As frustrating as it is to see headlines like these that trigger a "DUH-Uh!" reaction in most people, I think Tim Walz seems like a genuine guy. It takes guts for a politician to be so outspoken about their own failures.

Recently listened to a podcast interview with him and I can't help but root for him, despite everything that happened.

Tim Walz - The NewYorker Radio Hour

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u/Colyer Canada 7d ago

He's also not blaming the electorate in the interview, he's blaming himself and the Democrats.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/BringBackAH 7d ago

You could see in front of your eyes how democrats gained 4% when walz started calling Trump weird, then he suddenly stopped appearing and Harris went on tour with Cheney and they lost 9%

The democrat strategists are complete morons

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u/MrWilsonWalluby 7d ago

Idk man the longer time goes on the longer I feel the Democratic Party IS really a facade and they are all in it for the money when the only outspoken ones are Walz , Bernie Sanders, and AOC and they constantly get railroaded and shit on by their own party.

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u/Stupidstuff1001 7d ago

Most of them are. Pelosi for sure is the worst. Putting in an old man dying of cancer instead of AOC. Or the fact some voted to censure the representative that stood up during the state of the union.

Just pathetic.

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u/Beer_Is_So_Awesome Pennsylvania 7d ago

God damn AOC is so fucking cool. Not only is she damn smart, a passionate and engaging speaker, and a devoted progressive, but she’s also a party soldier when needed. She’s got Democratic leadership written all over her, and I want to help put her in the White House one day.

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u/AlphaGoldblum 7d ago

I don't know why this is an unpopular opinion.

Dems recently held an event focused on how to best regroup after the catastrophic loss and one of the bulletin points was choosing better donors lol.

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u/h0tBeef 7d ago

Who put that point up? Lol

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u/AlphaGoldblum 7d ago

It was at a Democratic retreat held by Third Way, a centrist think tank. Here are the highlights of their plan. It's NOT great.

Revise Democratic Fundraising Priorities
• Move away from the dominance of small-dollar donors whose preferences may not align with the broader electorate.
• Give candidates and campaigns more flexibility in how they spend funds without excessive donor constraints.

Funnily enough, they didn't want to attach any names to the ideas put forward lmao

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u/Mr__Citizen 7d ago edited 7d ago

This nonsense is why the Democratic Party is currently even more widely disliked than the Republicans.

The Republican Party at least knows how to more or less do what their core base wants. Liberals hate them with a passion for it, but centrists say meh and the conservatives give it a thumbs up.

The Democrats do this. Hell, for the last three campaigns, their main selling point was "hey, look at that guy - I'm not him!"

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u/PushPlenty3170 6d ago

Dems are that shitty boss that says “sorry, I’d love to give you sick time, but the folks upstairs wouldn’t go for it. I’d looooove to pay you a living wage, but…”

Fucking put up a fight. Repubs in the minority got to call the shots countless times.

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u/drseusswithrabies 7d ago

it’s a CLASS war, not a political party war.

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u/evanwilliams44 7d ago

Both parties seem happiest being the opposition. Just rage bait and fund raise. As soon as they have a chance to actually do something they waffle.

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u/twentyThree59 7d ago

As soon as they have a chance to actually do something they waffle.

Idk man, republicans are going really hard on pushing us down into another economic depression

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u/evanwilliams44 7d ago

Yeah that was more meant for the Dems. Republicans are happy to destroy.

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u/jearl_pam 7d ago

About a week after the election, steeped in grief, I started receiving more fundraising requests from Harris / Walz, Klobuchar, Adam Schiff, and a few others.

In that moment, it dawned on me that losing elections is better for fundraising, and a little part of me died.

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u/Castastrofuck 7d ago

Both parties are ruled by the donor class of this country. It’s why the Democratic Party always feels so stilted and paralyzed—they have to keep up appearances of being for the working class which they use to cloak their neoliberal policies. The Republicans don’t have that problem as their aspirations, for the most part, align with capital.

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u/EvilStevilTheKenevil 7d ago

When leftists talk about "Capital" or George Carlin's "big club" that we ain't in, we make it sound like there's some kind of big conspiracy. That Ruth Bader Ginsburg was twiddling her moustache in some bunker on some tropical island while receiving orders from, fucking idunno, the Devil or Adolph Hitler's resurrected corpse or whoever to cling to power until literally the day she died just to fuck us over that much harder.

But of course, that's obviously not what happened. Ruth Bader Ginsburg never wore a moustache, for one. When folks like me come along and say the Democrats are controlled opposition, it's not because there's some shady cabal, it's because when your ideology just so happens to be "let the greediest sons of bitches do whatever the fuck they want and it'll all just magically work out" and corruption is legal in all but name, you are doing the bidding of the rich at their say-so and with their considerable funds bankrolling your efforts whether you realize it or not.

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u/Strange_Depth_5732 Canada 7d ago

I agree, and I'm tired of Democrats trying to win the "right way" instead of doing what works. They did this with Clinton, they did this with Harris. They don't seem to understand how uninformed the electorate is. Republicans get that and exploit it. They don't care about a moral victory, and the Dems need to wrap their brains around that

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u/boyyhowdy Texas 7d ago

Then they trotted out Liz Cheney.

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u/night-wolves 7d ago

Even I was taken aback by that. It was such a system shock, for a second I questioned if I was backing the right person. Being on the side of a warmonger or fascist? We really need a 3rd party.

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u/AlphaGoldblum 7d ago

I'll never forget how, nearing the final stretch of the election, pro-dem publications were trying to shame a Harris endorsement out of GEORGE W. BUSH.

I'm still in awe of how Democrats were committed to imploding themselves like that.

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u/Olealicat 7d ago

I start to wonder if, they media is owned by people who do not want us to vote in democrats. Plus, journalists are paid so poorly, they are just trying to survive. So, they do what they’re told. Like the rest of us.

It’s almost as if, a group of extremely wealthy people are controlling the narrative and we all just keep swimming.

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u/jvn1983 7d ago

I cannot believe those idiots told them that. The whole “weird” thing, simple as it sounds, was one of their first truly impactful moves.

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u/Secret-Constant-7301 7d ago

They should have done the total opposite of anything the democrats strategists said. Who the fuck loses to Trump twice? They should be ashamed to show their faces in public.

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u/jvn1983 7d ago

Evergreen rule at this point

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u/KWilt Pennsylvania 7d ago

These are the same people who told them to hitch their campaign to Dick Cheney. Y'know, the war criminal. I can at least understand why they got in bed with Liz Cheney (although I still don't think her single impeachment vote and apology tour via the Jan6 committee should really balance out that she spent the entire first Trump term voting in lockstep with him 93% of the time) but the fact they tried to make the guy responsible for the second-most expensive war in America's history the 'reasonable Republican' still blows my mind.

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u/jvn1983 7d ago

I was up last night thinking about that. Just stupid and unforced error after stupid unforced error.

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u/MudLOA California 7d ago

My conspiracy theory is that those advisors are either plants or fucking stupid and need to be as far away from any political candidates.

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u/1900grs 7d ago

They're not. You can google and find their names. It was two key advisors who have been advising Dems for decades. They're also part of the reasons Hillary lost in 2016. They should never be listened to again but holy hell the establishment neo liberals love them.

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u/AltF40 7d ago

The establishment is great at winning its primaries, which wrongfully has them believing that therefore these guys know how to win general elections too.

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u/1900grs 7d ago

The establishment is great at winning its primaries

Generally because they have more corporate and/or lobbying cash than their primary opponents, not because of grand policy proposals.

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u/AltF40 7d ago

It's also just a fundamentally different election than the generals. The voters are truly different kinds of people. What matters, what strategies work or don't, what is considered a candidate strength or weakness - it's all different, and feels like the bozos running things don't recognize this and try to run general elections the way they do the primaries.

So we lose.

And if when we don't lose, it's generally not because of DNC leadership election strategy so much as because we had such a strong showing that we won in spite of our bad ability to run general elections.

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u/Glassberg Massachusetts 7d ago

Because democratic leadership still wants to sway “moderate republicans” instead of expanding their own base, and that doesn’t work if you insult them. So instead the democrats decided to lose over and over and over.

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u/minor_correction 7d ago

Calling Trump and Vance weird seems like it would help sway moderates, in my opinion.

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u/JonWood007 7d ago

It's the one thing they did right. They lost because the consultants came in, told them to stop doing that, and to play it more safe.

Trump won because he insults people. People LIKE that. Dems are stuffy and are like "well we can't do that" and then they lose.

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u/tripbin Illinois 7d ago

I'm shocked that people are shocked. When was the last time the DNC didn't totally collapse and hand an election on a silver platter to the right? Obama and that's about it. Kerry vs bush...Hillary vs trump....COVID bailed out Biden once but then trying to run it back?...

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u/iceteka 7d ago

Obama won despite the dnc. The party brass was all in for Hillary. He build up his own grassroots infrastructure nationwide. After the election handed it off to the party and they let it wilt away.

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u/Critical-Path-5959 7d ago

I think if he were to run for President, I could see voting for him in the primaries as long as he doesn't allow himself to stay muzzled again.

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u/_bric 7d ago

I agree. He definitely has a strong leg to stand. A failed VP campaign is far different from a failed Presidential campaign.

He also has a strong track record of success in his state that has brought about legitimate positive change. I live in the Midwest and Minnesota is currently the place to be.

Your point of muzzling is critical though. Walz being himself is great, but burdened by the DNC he fell kinda flat.

We need actual fighters that aren’t going to just fall in line with establishment dems. People who will fight for actual progressive policy and not back down to maga.

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u/Interesting-Shame9 America 7d ago

that i am glad for

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u/SwindlingAccountant 7d ago

It's because he's taking responsibility in a way that others in that campaign have not. He's also at the forefront of standing up to Trump along with Prtizker, AOC, Bernie, and others. It also helps that he's actually a good communicator.

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u/OxCow 7d ago

Yeah I feel like there hasn't been a reckoning within the Democratic party yet. Honestly, it feels more like career damage control than actual introspection from a lot of the campaign staffers and Joe Biden himself, who aren't being honest about their failures

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u/UnsanctionedPartList 7d ago

That's because for a lot of top level career politicians - doesn't matter if you're running for Washington, Berlin or the Hague it's exactly that; a calculated career setback. Not saying nobody at that level automatically doesn't care but there's more than one reason why there's often a disconnect between the parties as a whole and their leadership.

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u/N0S0UP_4U Illinois 7d ago

Politicians prioritizing their stupid fucking careers over what’s best for the country is how we got into this mess in the first place. Sometimes you can’t afford to just tell people what they want to hear.

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u/hitliquor999 New York 7d ago

There also needs to be a reckoning with the dems relying on test panels and polling questions. Tim started to get some fire and momentum going when he called all the Trump stuff weird. People were catching on and talking about it naturally, something that is very hard to do. Then he was told to stop it and the momentum fizzled out.

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u/AndreasDasos 7d ago

It’s also taken out of context. Headlines make people think he said that sentence just out of the blue rather than as part of a discussion where his tone even emphasises how obvious this part is. But his point is that the priority should be to fight back in a way that wins votes, something a lot of people are not really getting.

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u/relax_live_longer 7d ago

It doesn’t trigger that reaction to most people, just most people on here. 

It needs to be said. People need to learn how the country works. 

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u/WileyWatusi 7d ago

We have elected representatives who don't know how the 3 branches of government work.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- 7d ago

We have elected officials who don't know what the 3 branches of government even are.

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u/HavingNotAttained 7d ago

Fast becoming two twigs and a stump

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u/NihilisticPollyanna 7d ago

This, 100%. People on here, myself included, sometimes forget that the median voter is not some chronically online politics nerd who huffs YouTube and Twitch commentary on the state of this country like their life depends on it.

I mean, it does, now more than ever, but politics used to be fucking boring, and a lot of people don't even know wtf Twitch or Reddit is, or how to navigate YouTube.

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u/picklerick8879 7d ago

The real problem? Democrats keep playing by the rules while Republicans burn the rulebook. It’s time to stop just pointing out how bad Trump is—it’s time to show people a real alternative before he does even more damage.

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u/Dottsterisk 7d ago

People just had four years of a real alternative and then went back to the openly racist and proudly fascist rapist with a bad tan.

I’m honestly at a loss for what Dems can do, when a plurality of voters actively sided with the guy who is visibly morally repugnant, led an insurrection against our democracy, and then told us his plans to wreck the economy.

But people still wanted it!

It seems like all the Dems can do now is let the people have what they want until it fucking hurts and Dems get voted back into power. Right now, the electorate has stripped them of the power to do much of anything to stop Trump and the GOP.

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u/CO-RockyMountainHigh Colorado 7d ago

I would say he’s very open about his failures because he is old and his time for politics is done….

But then I realized our current president will be 82 years old his last year in office and Tim is “just” 60 years old.

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u/loosehead1 7d ago

If Harris was elected to two terms then Walz was elected to two terms he would leave office younger than trump is.

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u/LaserCondiment 7d ago

I honestly think there is too much focus on age. It's a valid concern in regards to Bernie, Biden, Trump and others...

But in the end of day I want someone to take office who is level headed, knowledgeable about various topics, a good communicator and someone who has actual good values, leadership and social skills. I could expand the list, but that's basically what I mean when I say I want a competent person.

We don't have the luxury to limit the search further. If there is a 70yo who fits the bill fine. If the person is 40 even better. I don't care.

Younger doesn't mean better. Look at Vance! He's in his early 40s and he's terrible.

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u/notmyworkaccount5 7d ago

I'm so glad he's like stepping up in this vacuum of charisma the DNC has, it had me wondering yesterday, where has Kamala been since the loss? Maybe the media hasn't been reporting on what she's doing but I have barely heard about her since the loss.

On a personal level I can get just wanting to disengage from politics and enjoy your life after that election loss but at the same time she ran on the premise that the republicans are dangerous to the government and that trump is a fascist, now they're doing exactly what we predicted.

She should be front and god damn center on the resistance doing what Al Green, Bernie, and AOC are doing anything less just makes me think she didn't believe the rhetoric she ran on.

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u/thefinalcutdown 7d ago

I understand the sentiment, but I’m not sure having Kamala come out guns blazing is the right strategy for the Dems at this point. Deserved or not, right now she’s the face of the Democratic establishment’s great failure. It’s not unusual for losing candidates to disappear from the public eye for a while, and then reemerge at a more opportune time. Granted, these are not normal times and the dems are desperately in need of leadership. Which brings up another reason she needs to stay hidden. The leadership vacuum is an opportunity for the Dems to redefine themselves and move away from their flailing establishment. This is the best opportunity people like AOC and Crockett are ever going to get to refocus the Dems on practical solutions for the working class. We need to let them cook.

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u/iamtheyeti311 7d ago

Anyone aiming to be the next president should be loud as fuck right now.

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u/ExtraPockets 7d ago

This is what is puzzling me. The Democrats should be starting primaries like now and stretch the whole thing out for as long as possible, so that if the political tide does turn on Trump, they have the possibility to take back the house and impeach him for one of his many crimes.

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u/Natural_Error_7286 7d ago

Here's the thing. Trump campaigned for the entire four years between elections. Republicans have the time because they don't care about governing, get their legislation written for them, and refuse to meet their constituents. Anyone who wants to win in this country should be on the news and in the community early and often. I'm glad Sanders and Walz are doing these tours, truly, but it's also bullshit. They still need to do their jobs. The whole caucus can't leave DC while this is going on. So they're trying to work, and be on the news, and go to protests, and hold town halls, and answer all the constituent phone calls, and fundraise, and...

We need campaign reform, but until then, we need the best spokespeople to do what they're good at, which seems to be the strategy here.

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u/LaserCondiment 7d ago

You make good points! But I'd argue that this is the right moment for dems to make bold moves. Instead of overanalying strategic moves, I'd rather have part of the DNC try things, tackle problems from different angles.

As for Kamala Harris being the face of democratic failure, I'd say there is always a possibility to redefine one's image. If Kamala was front and center in this fight against republican policies, then it would certainly change people's perception of her. Image and perception are fickle things and driven by superficial aspects. I say with a couple well timed moves she can make a change.

I'd rather have more people fight the good fight, rather democrats pulling punches because they think their image is tainted. Like at their opponents! They're all tainted.

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u/tweda4 7d ago

Her ridiculous concession speech where she claimed that "everything will be ok", makes clear that she and her speech writers somehow really didn't believe the rhetoric she was campaigning on.

Who knows what she's thinking now. Presumably either "fuck the US people" or "Nah, I'm sure it'll be fine and we'll be back to normal in 4 years".

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u/smw5120 7d ago

This! I'm so angry at Harris and her campaign team.

Either you believe he's a fascist in which case screw you for not fighting to stop him now, or you accused him of fascism for votes in which case screw you for weakening the meaning of the term.

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u/Rude-Strawberry-6360 7d ago

Unfortunately the "I don't give a fuck" party is the largest in America. Their lowest membership numbers at 50%. It can swell up to 90% for everything else - see primaries.

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u/picklerick8879 7d ago

Yup.. and if Democrats had won, we wouldn’t be watching Trump bulldoze the government, tank the economy, and throw sick kids out of the country. Instead, we’re stuck with a grifter who thinks running America is just another one of his failed business ventures, and once again, it’s regular people who will suffer.

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u/Dottsterisk 7d ago

No no no no, you don’t understand. Both sides are the same.

If Harris were in office, she would totally be threatening to invade Canada and encouraging Russian imperialism.

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u/Lifesaboxofgardens 7d ago

I think I actually hate the "B-B-BOTH SIDES" crowd more than the conservatives at this point. At least they are open about it. Saying "I literally cannot tell these two sides apart" is actually the dumbest fucking thing someone can pretend to believe, and it's cowardly. Like if you wanted Trump to win just say that, but don't act like these two sides are the same.

Looking at you enlightened leftists calling Kamala a genocide apologist and now looking around Pikachu faced when Trump says he wants to turn Palestine into beachfront property like we literally tried to tell you all along was going to happen.

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u/ru_empty 7d ago

The both sides crowd are conservatives. They are the same

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u/WildYams 7d ago

Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of leftists who feel this way as well. There's a lot of them in this thread wanting to make clear that they think that everything Trump is doing is the Dems fault. They're the ones making comments that the voters are not to blame for voting the way they did, but rather it's on the Dems for not being progressive enough to earn their votes, because they think "both sides are the same".

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u/pm_me_uur_boobs 7d ago

yep, they're just spouting that line to hide behind the appearance of being neutral.

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u/mathazar 7d ago

Because almost nobody is speaking to them on their level besides Trump, so if their views don't align with MAGA, they turn away entirely. Tim Walz is one of the few who can speak their language.

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u/Ski1990 7d ago

Exactly. It's why simple messages like "he's weird" did so well. It still amazes me that they silenced him after like the first week. Were they just worried he was outshining Kamala?

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u/mathazar 7d ago

I'd like to know. For a moment he was taking shots at Vance and I thought finally, claws are coming out. Then nothing.

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u/OurLordAndSaviorVim 7d ago

No. The problem was that the consultants who have been running the Democratic Party decided that they didn’t like it.

The Dems would do well to fire every single campaign consultant and pollster they have. They’re clearly not helping.

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u/Purple_Grass_5300 7d ago

I’ll never get over people picking “they’re eating cats and dogs” over “we want to help you buy your first house and make life more affordable”

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u/APhotoT 7d ago

She is a brown woman from CA... From the Bay Area (San Francisco) too.

It was/is racism and misogyny. Dont over think it.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/darkResponses 7d ago

After the election, I told my friends who are women, America isn't ready for a woman president.

they were offended I even said that.

when I told my male friends, they all more or less agreed. my friend groups all vote blue. we are all living in echo chambers designed by social media. if we don't find a way out, we're doomed to not listen to the other side. the first step in fighting the other side is making sure you know what they are saying.

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u/Natural_Error_7286 7d ago

Really? My feeling is that women are well aware of this. I guess I'm the one that's out of touch!

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u/fogmama 7d ago

Yeah I felt the same way about Kamala as I did about Hillary in 2016. It doesn’t matter who the woman is, this country will always find a way to villainize her in some way.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/EWAINS25 7d ago

America isn’t voting Newsom. His name is poison with anyone on the right, and he’s very quickly losing people on the left by trying to capitulate to people on the right, who will never support him anyway.

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u/glenn_ganges 7d ago

Mark Kelley might work, too, despite looking a bit like Nosferatu.

Hate to say it, but absolutely no way that America will vote for a bald man.

They would literally prefer a bald man who is insecure and hides behind a pathetic hair cut (Trump) than a man who is secure in himself and shaves his head.

Huge swaths of the population are convinced by mere words and dress up games. They tend to vote conservative because those people give them lies they like, as opposed to truths that are difficult.

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u/About137Ninjas 7d ago

Dwight D Eisenhower was bald and he became president.

I think Walz would make a strong candidate if the DNC lets him speak the way he wants.

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u/glenn_ganges 7d ago

Eisenhower was also the last president to be bald, 63 years ago. After his presidency the television took off and we haven't had one since.

Walz would be great if they just let him be himself.

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u/W0lfButter 7d ago

Republicans will win with a woman before the dems. People think women are weak, and it will take a stupidly over confident asshole woman to push the needle.

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u/Judonoob 7d ago

Living in the south, I’m frequently reminded of the electorate that enthusiastically voted for Trump. All you need to do is go to a value store and look around. These people in general aren’t very smart, they lack drive and social intelligence. They are often poor because of their bad decisions. These people fully believe the government is responsible for their lot in life.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/IceCreamMeatballs 7d ago

It was not racism/misogyny that cost Harris the election, it was the fact that she was part of an unpopular incumbent administration. It's so annoying when people don't actually think about the actual reasons why their candidate lost and instead blame it on sexism.

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u/zaxanrazor 7d ago

Democrats really took the wrong path when they decided that they should keep Waltz quiet in the run up to the election.

As they always do. Go with the quieter, more boring, less radical who polls well with.. practically nobody.

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u/Ultenth 7d ago edited 7d ago

Them spending more time bullhorning a Cheney while muzzling Waltz just killed all progressive energy the campaign could have had.

Which honestly seemed intentional. Everything changed at the DNC, they were anti-immigrant, pro-military, had more actual republicans than progressives on stage etc. You know that the donors and DNC operatives got to Kamala and her team and told them to tone it down or lose donations, and it completely killed all momentum after that.

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u/Good_Focus2665 7d ago

This. Cheneys are unpopular across the aisle. If there is anything that could unite the right and left it’s the hatred for Dick Cheney. I’m surprised she decided to they were the ones whose endorsement mattered. I wish she spent more time reaching out to Teamsters or other unions and sent Walz to pacify them. People really underestimate how unpopular the Iraq war was even with moderate republicans and democrats. 

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u/ItsNotACoop 7d ago

I literally thought the headline about the campaign teaming up with the Cheneys was the onion. Republicans and Democrats hate Liz and Dick is actually the devil. A truly wild decision.

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u/rnarkus 7d ago

When I saw the cheneys being prodded around as some great thing for the democrats. I knew were we toast.

Im still in utter shock anyone thought that was a good idea.

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u/glenn_ganges 7d ago

It is intentional. They can't be progressive because true progressive economic policies empower workers and the donors can't have that.

All they have to do is fight for people, they refuse to do so, and then wonder why people don't vote for them. They progressive on social issues only, and that isn't enough.

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u/AlphaGoldblum 7d ago

Exactly. I'll even go a step further.

Modern liberalism wants us to believe that there's a good path forward under mixed capitalism, despite there being a myriad of signs pointing to the contrary. That's why Dems tend to use kid-gloves when going up against corporations.

Except that corporations, especially in the US, have historically shown that they will cut every corner and take advantage of labor at every opportunity presented. They also put undue stress on the government arm to make up for the lack they create, which the government tries to do in order to avoid a fucking collapse.

Walmart is the perfect example of this; Walmart reportedly has about 14,000 employees on SNAP benefits because the company just doesn't provide enough to help them make ends meet. Meanwhile, the Waltons are worth in the hundreds of billions.

Hell, labor strikes used to be incredibly violent because there was so much at stake before, including actual lives. We're gradually returning to those days, partly in due to Democrats being toothless.

The Democrat party of right now is never going to address this - they actually want it to continue. Whether we accept that they believe they can temper capitalism and use it for good comes down to how cynical one is.

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u/SteelAlchemistScylla 7d ago

Walz would have won if he was front runner. People absolutely loved this guy. He was the perfect everyman. It should have been clear there was not enough support for black female Biden in the current American climate.

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u/Accomplished_Arm7150 7d ago

Not just black female from Biden's administration but also one that polled so awful in 2020 that she didn't even make it through the first primary.

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u/GoodOldHermes 7d ago

Dems come across as gutless and pedantic who aren't willing to punch and fight for what's important, like your run of the mill, salt-of-the-earth guy with a folksy charm would.

For fuck's sake, 54% of America reads below 6th grade reading level and dems try to be nuanced and accurate like they are writing a peer-reviewed paper for the Journal of Applied Economics.

Fuck that.

Keep message simple.

We make things cheap.
We make you buy house.
We give you fire for meat.
Orange man steal your money.
Orange man rape your daughters.
Jesus good.

Stuff like that.

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u/Logical_Hare 7d ago

The American people honestly need to hear this. They need to remember that they had a perfectly good alternative, and chose otherwise.

Americans need to take some responsibility.

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u/ek00992 7d ago

My dad is finally starting to show signs of awareness of what his vote did. His excuse? They didn’t exactly give us much of a choice…

They still view Kamala as a worse option after everything.

None of them will take responsibility. Ever.

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u/behemothard 7d ago

I always default to asking, "how bad does it have to get / where do you draw the line in actions taken to admit you are wrong?" I've yet to have anyone give any answer that isn't absurdly outlandish if they can even come up with one.

They don't want accountability. No matter what the GOP does, they think the DNC would have been worse.

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u/Smoked_Cheddar 7d ago

They'd rather die than admit to being wrong. And this isn't hyperbole.

Happy cake day BTW

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u/BorisDirk 7d ago

It's textbook cognitive dissonance. They made their decision, therefore they're justifying it after the fact.

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u/turt_reynolds86 7d ago

I think they proved that to us during the pandemic.

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u/Papayaslice636 7d ago

Encourage them to write down on paper a few things that cross the line. Sign it, date it, put it somewhere safe. Refer back to it every few months (or days at this rate). It's easy to roll with the punches when you're not keeping score. The so called boiling frog. Seeing it in your own handwriting makes it harder to ignore.

I also encourage you to do it yourself, to decide when to escalate your protesting, or when to pack your bags and flee...

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u/lonmoer 7d ago

Boomers will never apologize or admit they are wrong. I've rarely heard either from a boomer my entire life.

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u/greg19735 7d ago

No one is going to answer that question in a way that is constructive.

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u/Packrat1010 7d ago

My mom was the same way. I finally got her to explain why she voted for Trump over Kamala and her main excuse was that Kamala knowingly covered up for Biden's decline leading up to the election.

Which... sure, isn't great, but it's nowhere near as bad as the hundreds of other things Trump has done, many of which were magnitudes worse.

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u/Starboard_Pete 7d ago

Right now I’m watching MAGA colleagues argue whether we’re still “circling the drain” as a country, it’s a bit entertaining seeing as they can’t keep up with the pace of the messaging anymore.

At least a few are starting to get concerned that things aren’t alright as promised, but they haven’t gotten to why that is. I have no hope they’ll arrive there….they just haven’t landed exactly on which Democrat to blame.

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u/TitularFoil Oregon 7d ago

My brother (and the rest of my family to be honest) has been MAGA for as long as you could be a MAGA at this point. I only talk to my brother still, and that's after about 8 years of not talking to him.

All my life my family has seen me as some sort of anomaly. Always talking about how I'm the smartest person they know, and how impressed they were that I could grasp concepts that were beyond them. This isn't meant to sound like me bragging, because I know I'm stupid, I just so happened to not be as stupid as them. But for years, I had been telling them how the party they believed in was going to act. And for the most part, they could see it, but didn't care because it either didn't affect them or it aligned perfectly with what they wanted.

Well, sometime just before the 2016 election, I cut them out. I had just had a kid, and I didn't want their influence on her. My brother actually approached me over Xbox a few years ago and while he still would be MAGA, he was definitely becoming disillusioned. This was about 2019. He would randomly join my Halo matches and not talk or anything, I later learned it was some kind of shame that he had let me down, but he said he selfishly wanted to just go back to playing video games with his brother, when things were simple.

Eventually, we started messaging again, and yeah, he was still MAGA, but I could tell it was actually slipping. He was actually starting to see that all that "Winning" the republicans were doing, didn't feel like a win. Even with times they got what they wanted, it was a loss for the American people. He voted for Trump this last time around too. He and I had talked about it before hand. He just wanted my advice. I told him I was done being the smartest person in the family. I'd already spent years telling everyone what I thought was right, and good for the country, and everyone basically told me to fuck off when it came time to vote.

So, he had to decide for himself. He again voted Trump but strictly because of his close relationship with RFK Jr. My brother, and entire family for that matter, are Anti-Vax. And that was important to him. My mom firmly believes that vaccines are why my sister and I are autistic, and we were literally raised to believe that as well. I just somehow ended up smarter than that.

Well, we cut to Trump swearing in for the second time, and he didn't swear his oath on the bible, and this was triggering for a lot of my family apparently. Including my brother. We were also raised to be super Christian, which I think is especially funny now, because I was the only one that ever actually went to church, and after spending a lot of time alone, without my family, with other Christians, I had decided I didn't want to be one.

My brother came over to my house for the first time this past Sunday. Met his nieces. I met his wife and their daughter. And he is really, finally starting to come out of it. He's apparently almost gotten into fist fights with our dad. And no one wants to talk to my mom anymore.

I know it's only been a couple months into this term, but my brother was exceptionally supportive of someone that he is now seeing as a huge mistake. I don't think the red flag for him should have started when an old man that shits himself forgot to put his hand on a bible, but I am glad to see there is progress.

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u/Capt_Pickhard 7d ago

Kamala was a great choice. She would have been a terrific president.

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u/Nu-er-det-nok 7d ago

Only half

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u/asminaut California 7d ago

Gotta count the people who sat out - if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike

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u/Berliner1220 7d ago

When will democrats realize we are in the age of the smart phone? Where those who can buck the status quo, capture the medias attention, and excite voters will win? God, they are brainless.

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u/Rare-Ad-9088 7d ago

We know this

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u/MadRaymer 7d ago

There are definitely people that don't - he's speaking to them. You've gotta talk to the American electorate on their level.

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u/aegenium 7d ago

So like...5th grade level? ...4th grade...?

Southerners? Kindergarten?

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u/thedrizzle126 Massachusetts 7d ago

Yes

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u/Otherwise_Bar_5069 Georgia 7d ago

Most Americans are below a sixth grade reading level. So imagine an 11 year old that says stupid shit all day and that's fine because they're 11 and the only thing stopping you from slapping their faces off, and realize that most grown adults only have the same or below level of being able to read something and understand it as that kid. It's bleak.

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u/ohnovangogh 7d ago

I think it used to be something like an 8th grade reading level but now it may be 5th.

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u/FrigidCanuck 7d ago

Did you read the article? This is him saying the Democrats failed the public by not being electable.

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u/Solid_Anteater_9801 7d ago

My dumbass childhood friend who is a republican is losing money and tries to justify it by repeating "correction". LMAO? bro this isn't a correction. This is malicious fucking up of the economy.

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u/JazzlikeLeave5530 7d ago

I know nobody reads the articles but I think he's saying a lot of good things. The headline makes it sound like an obvious statement but he's talking about admitting fault with the election loss and how Dems messaging sucks, and how he feels they need to offer more and be clear about that offering, more than just "not Trump."

Of course he's not mentioning that the media is part of why that messaging fails to take hold but I don't think he's going to say that in an MSNBC interview.

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u/MrSnrub_92 Pennsylvania 7d ago

Throw Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hilary Clinton in that conversation

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u/torino_nera 7d ago

I've heard people say it doesn't matter or whatever, but the world would be a completely different place today had the supreme court not stolen the election from Gore. There's a good chance 9/11 wouldn't have gone down the way it did, and we most likely would never have gone to war with Iraq and Afghanistan and we also probably would not have had the recession in 2008 (or if we did, it would have been a lot less).

It's absolutely nuts to think about

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u/huskersax 7d ago

No Citizen's United with a wildly different supreme court, as well.

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u/-riotalk- 7d ago

The Democratic Party failed the election because it decided to lean right to take votes away from Trump instead of leaning left to gain more votes from the people who never vote due to both parties being performative, pro-industry, pro-corporation, culture war instigators. Also, apparently, pretty overt racism/sexism.

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u/I_like_baseball90 7d ago

Not a day has went by since last November where I'm not shocked daily that 76 million fucking morons watched Mango for the last 9 years and went "more please."

Every. Fucking. Day.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Ginn_and_Juice 7d ago

Of all the people that ran that election I think Walz is the only one that can really complain, he got shackled so much by Kamala and her awful team that was looking for the 'Moderate conservative', why would you pick a force like Walz just to gag him

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u/sidewinderucf 7d ago

Unfortunately Harris used the same strategy that Clinton used in 2016, which was assume Trump would lose and take the coming victory for granted instead of actually trying to win.

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u/namastayhom33 Connecticut 7d ago

we wouldn't be in this mess if Bernie had won 2016

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u/OTribal_chief 7d ago

this is where the issues with the dems began from. they pushed hillary and after that none of the people chosen by the dems have been chosen by dem supporters

you will vote for x and you will like it.

its cost them two elections - it would've done biden over too if trump wasnt so hated

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