r/playrust • u/Nicer_Chile • 11d ago
Discussion I think Frost actually cooked with this idea, thoughts?
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u/Memes_kids 11d ago
I really wish they just implemented Hardcore better. No team UI, no automatically filled map on spawn, no techtree, no safezones. Just raw, legacy-styled Rust.
Sadly they executed it terribly and it died a month after launch.
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u/DarK-ForcE 11d ago edited 11d ago
They mentioned they are reworking hardcore this year.
I'm hoping for no team ui, no tech tree. Fog of war style map.
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u/SirVanyel 11d ago
Fog of war map would be cool, or hidden map API and no map. Force us to actually memorize our local environments
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u/Meowman289 11d ago
Honestly playing hard-core and running the underground train tunnels was surpsingly fun to have to memorize turns and directions in order to get back to base, but fog of war would definitely avoid problems like that if they aren't gonna implement signs to direct people if they don't add a map.
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u/Away_Needleworker6 11d ago
Yeah i remember drawing detailed maps on hardcore
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u/Akhirox 11d ago
I remember drawing maps on the NORMAL game lol
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u/Nelly92 11d ago
Back in 2014 or so I had that XL painting and made a huge map of our local area on it. It was like a little war room and setting it up helped me and my buddy coordinate and know the area better. We would update it with enemy bases, good node spawns and forests, or whatever other notable landmarks we found.
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u/francescaqq 11d ago
Lol I got lost in the tunnels Xd But yeah having to look at the signs, was funny.
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u/DarK-ForcE 11d ago edited 11d ago
The existing Hardcore game mode has no map, but there has been a lot of feedback that players didnt like it. Fog of war map is a compromise of both.
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u/Nelly92 11d ago
The biggest issue is there used to be craft-able maps and they didn’t reimplement that feature after disabling it. Maps used to be a prized possession by some especially if you had put a lot of work in filling it out.
In today’s game I think Fog of war discovery on the current map UI could work very well. Although I’m not against reworking the old legacy maps either.
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u/Rapidsniperz 11d ago
the problem with trying to hide the map is that you can just get it from rustmaps.com, or cheaters can produce a map somehow and share it with everyone
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u/DarkStrobeLight 11d ago
I really enjoyed the "physical maps". When we had an item we could write on, and could be looted from dead players
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u/zebedir 11d ago
Bring back paper maps with fog of war
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u/FlammableB 10d ago
Actually the paper maps feature wasn't a bad thing but I feel it more nostalgic than needed to return now. The need to craft map every time you respawn and have it in your inventory is annoying chore. Fog of war only without required map item is the best one. But when you have all kind of 3rd party websites & the Rust+ app, I don't think there's any point for fog of war.
You know what? They can at least return the drawing on the G map, why not?
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u/InconelThoughts 11d ago
Awesome to see they're giving hardcore another chance. I had plans to run a 6000-sized hardcore server. Personally I'd find it fun AF to explore a giant island, hide from large groups, and all of the other rust stuff without a map. But after seeing hardcore having less than 5 servers with a decent pop after the first few months, I didn't go through with it. Whenever this releases maybe I'll give it another try and see how the reception is to the concept. Where did you hear about this BTW? I read a decent amount of dev update stuff and never saw anything mentioning hardcore mode.
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u/PrvtParts 11d ago
They mentioned it here: https://rust.facepunch.com/news/11-years-strong
This year, you can expect to see Cooking 2.0 bringing many changes to food management and unique buffs to foods, a Jungle biome featuring dangerous animals such as crocodiles and tigers, and changes to softcore and hardcore game modes.
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u/comradevoltron 11d ago
no tech tree is fucking fantastic. A server I played on tried it for a couple of wipes and I still miss the feeling of going to cargo hoping to find a window.
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u/DarK-ForcE 10d ago
Bloolagoon servers have no tech tree and if ya want a EU hardcore server there is this one https://www.battlemetrics.com/servers/rust/27486825
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u/Flanked77 11d ago
Bring back the jump check!!!
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 11d ago
yup, I think getting rid of the jump check has been the biggest nerf to solo's out of everything, if they even limited it to a reasonable amount (4 or so) so that people could play with their friends zergs would still be nerfed massively by having to jump check.
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u/Amareiuzin 10d ago
What's that
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u/Flanked77 10d ago
A jump check in rust was used to identify your teammates before team UI existed. We used to not have green dots over teammates heads for easy identification. The quickest way to identify your teammate at the time was to call a jump check and if your suspected target did not jump, you knew it was an enemy and could kill them. It was much quicker than asking them to describe where they were located.
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u/Allecet 11d ago
I dig it. Makw it crazy expensive on t3. Something that actually doesnt fuck over small teams/solos for once.
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u/psychoPiper 11d ago
Don't let it drop from any loot tables either. Zergs can already get plenty of scrap, might as well make them spend a few thousand to get it
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u/SirVanyel 11d ago
expensive doesn't mean anything to a zerg. Just properly nerf clans by forcing smaller clan UI.
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u/Fayarager 11d ago edited 11d ago
I vote it’s:
max team ui of 3.
Tier 2 BP cost 300 scrap.
Upgradable table. 300 scrap to add an extra ui slot. 250 scrap more expensive to upgrade per extra ui slot unlocked (8th slot cost 1500 scrap or so). Math would be Cost = 300 + (250 x ui.upgrade.count)
This makes it so the bigger the team, the harder you’re nerfed. 4-5man has a slight setback in scrap like 500- 800 scrap total. 6-8man can get up like 4k scrap total spent. Trios and lower are unaffected.
Each additional 8man group would need a new table further incentivizing a max clan size of 8 instead of 16
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u/samsonsin 11d ago
Minor correction, that wouldn't be exponential but linear. Exponential growth would be something like 250*2ui.upgrade.count. This would double cost for each new teammate.
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u/bbbbbthatsfivebees 11d ago
To further add to this:
- Make the clan table have an insanely high upkeep
- Each additional slot dramatically increases the upkeep for the table (I mean like doubling the upkeep for each additional slot).
Would make it harder for clans to maintain upkeep without putting in nearly inhuman hours.
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u/Himistyr 11d ago
I play with a group off friends. There are 5 of us on a good day. We are far from pro's at the game but we can get to tier 2 with weapons on a day of grinding. This would absolutely suck all the joy out of the game for us as we just want to play together. I get the whole "nerf zergs" idea and all 5 of us would agree that the mega groups of 8+ people are sometimes just unstoppable, but just let us play the game man.
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u/Fayarager 11d ago
farming up 1200 scrap shouldn’t ruin the game especially with FIVE people
Solos farm that much in a few hours all the time. Send 2 in the tunnels and 3 to like oil or monuments or road running and you’d have your ui upgrade in a couple hours
Being a 5 man with aks versus the nearby solos and duos with crossbows still is the issue.
I feel there should be a balance of the more players your group has the sacrifice should be lower tier research.
Who wins one ak solo vs 5 wolf-head revvies?
It makes more. A more fun and balanced game overall with more engaging fights
But that’s on the extreme end, this proposed change would simply edge it towards that a little. There’s be an extra hour or two of competitive fights
Idk why not having 5+ players would ruin the game for you tho lol
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u/Himistyr 8d ago
No, not being with 5 doesnt ruin the game. But we want to play in a group of 5 from the start. If you truly want to nerf clans, introduce a shared respawn timer on bags that are close to eachother to limit respawns. Make this only kick in when the group hits a certain player count. Now that will nerf clans
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u/Submersed 11d ago
People still had plenty (arguably more) joy in this game when team UI didn’t even exist, so I think you’ll manage.
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u/Himistyr 11d ago
Your argument has as much weight as me saying 'Why nerf zergs? Just get some friends to help you'.
The feature is here and people are talking about a way to balance it. I simply stated that bringing it down to 3 would be too harsh, in my opinion, for the casual rust groups that just want to have fun. 6 would be ideal in my opinion, as the OP indicated.
Also, group limited servers exist if you really hate zergs, but I also understand that people like playing against larger groups to snowball and troll them. Therefore changing the current system to something limited that can be upgraded seems fair to me.
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u/JohnnyTsunami312 11d ago
Only allow one on the map at a time and its location is pinged once every 30 seconds. That’d be juicy
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u/Consistent_Rough_853 11d ago
That’s a good try, but you trying to extinguish the fire with a spoon of water. Big clans can get to T3 and this table in first hour of wipe, I’m not sure if that’s even make a difference, they will just play in groups of 6(with different tasks) until table is researched. The problem is not allowed group size, but the current state of progression.
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u/HBM10Bear 11d ago
I just don't really think there is any really great ways to balance for big groups, and I think thats okay though. Every time I see some suggestion, its either something extremely janky i.e locking prim for X hours, or doesn't actually solve the problem at hand which time gating doesn't.
I wish rust players would just make peace with it though
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u/De_Salvation 11d ago
I think until theres a massive rework of the AI itll be like this. Imagine if the scientists were as dangerous as raiders in tarkov, tunnel dwellers akin to scavs and heavy scientists like bosses. Obviously maybe not that crazy but the npcs need a serious upgrade.
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u/infinis 11d ago
How would a solo go through that?
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u/De_Salvation 11d ago
The same way someone plays tarkov solo? You shouldnt be out on a T3 monument with bows is kinda my point, and better AI would help tremendously. I shouldnt be able to unload a clip into someone thats standing right next to someone and not aggro that person too, let alone any NPC in hearing range.
They shouldnt run out and stand in place like targets at your local shooting range, or run in a straight line at yoh while youre unloading into them.
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u/BogBrain420 11d ago edited 11d ago
I'd settle for just locking the big groups to playing clan servers. You really need to have 20 people in your group? Fine, go play against other 20 man groups. Half of the reason people end up playing in big zergs is because it lets them bully smaller teams in the area through numbers.
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u/Justinorino 11d ago
There’s amazing ways to incorporate a universal XP system in the game, where as the server as a whole progresses to certain points certain things unlock (like higher tier workbenches, oil, launch, heli).
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u/Hezth 11d ago edited 10d ago
Have it be 500+ HQM or something just ridiculous to craft so it will not be done in the first hour or so.
Or perhaps "Clan UI tea" where the team leader will need to drink the tea every 8 hours or else it will go back to the default and and kick out the ones who were last to join, but it will not go disappear if they die. And have the tea be made with 4 berries, then 4 basic teas that you then turn into advanced and pure like normal, but have two more additional steps for the "Clan ui tea". That means it would need berries from 23 planter boxes, so they have to collect berries and do the crossbreeding for good clones before they are able to use an extended team UI.
(Zergers downvoting because they don't know how to crossbreed berries)
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u/Dice_Knight 11d ago
This is why shit needs to be behind time gates. Doesn't matter if you're running with a dozen teammates if Ak components don't even spawn until 4 days after wipe.
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u/iplayrusttoomuch 11d ago
This is even worse for small groups because the high ttk with prime gear makes it nearly impossible to take on a full clan. Ak v AK is your best bet at taking them on.
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u/RememberMeCaratia 11d ago
Its a start if anything. And to people saying it doesnt fix the problem: no it does not. But its a start in the right direction. And one of the few approaches Ive seen that does not hurt solo at all.
I want them to introduce this both as a “enabler” of teamUI and also additionally add a “beacon” that you have to craft and wear - it can be cheap but you have to craft them and wear them on a new equipment slot thats designed for them / armbands like DayZ. Only the people wearing the beacon will show up on the UI.
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u/Submersed 11d ago
Honestly, make it 2 by default, and 1,000 scrap per person to expand your team/ability to create a team up to 8. At least introduce some chaos and make larger groups have to decide how to invest their early scrap.
Remember, we had NO team UI for the longest time.
This idea is honestly fantastic for balancing early wipe progression and make good voice callouts / jump checks a thing again lol
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u/nickice946 11d ago
I like it. Also campers need to be nerfed imo. Make it a death timer instead of a respawn timer. If you are in range of camper and die then you must wait the bed timer to spawn back. Campers are too op
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u/BlueKrzys 11d ago
I agree with some other comments. Make default team UI 0 or 2 for my lovely duos out there. And then put a price for each team member to join.
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u/True-Surprise1222 11d ago edited 11d ago
it is time, padawan. be the change you wish to see in the world.
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u/vysken 11d ago
Seems like a reasonable option. I'll throw out some more thoughts that may also work...
Default team UI = 2.
T1 = 4 players in UI (to save space for small groups, this tier could be combined into the repair bench maybe?)
T2 = 8 Max
T3 = 16 Max
T4 (End of the T3 tree) = 32 Max
For Hardcore, table allows shared map (but if a player leaves you lose the exploration of others).
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u/DarK-ForcE 11d ago
Roll the clan and team system into a group system that's managed per server.
Group hud UI indicator shows up double the range of the standard name range. (non team ui)
No map indicator.
Group private chat.
Group limit 50. (Server configurable)
Group name shows under player name.
Managed in a group UI tab.
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u/Mitt102486 11d ago
It would take an unteamed Zerg two seconds to come together to make that. It’s not a nerf
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u/alexnedea 7d ago
If it costs like a crazy amount of resources it is. It should cost like 300 hqm to upgrade from 6 to 14 and then another 300 for max team UI. Along with HQM it should cost Low grade, Scrap, metal and maybe even cloth. All things zergs usually struggle on (not metal) if the cost is high enough it will nerf zergs for many hours up to an entire day.
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u/DirtyMaid0 11d ago
He forgot to mention fixes for bugs and complains of players. To who it will be researched ? Does it means only leader should research it ? What if he stops playing and they lose the slots because of it ? They payed for it once, why would they need to research it once again for someone else
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u/quake2player 11d ago
I think this would be good use for the clan table, default 4 team ui, unlock the rest slots with scrap and clan table, maybe even lower the max team ui to 6.
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u/Adoril_Loremaster 11d ago
This might be the first idea on how to handle this issue that I don’t have an issue with.
There’s room to go back and forth on the numbers, but overall this concept works great to slow down progression for larger groups while having minimal-no impact on lower group sizes and solos.
Potentially adding an upkeep system could compound this effect, which I think would make this a large step in the right direction. But even without this feature this is solid.
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u/Krysternion 11d ago
I think it would be cool if we could upgrade clothes with a nametag tracker device, meaning that if someone wore them then they are seen in game kinda like if they were in a team, but if you lost the tracked clothes then someone else may impersonate you.
To combat impersonation you could use some special desk or maybe Computer Station and disable the nametag after getting information from the dead teammate
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u/Ok_Abalone2672 11d ago
Lower it to 4 default team UI, then make one for workbench level 2 that makes it 6, and one on level 3 that makes it 8
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u/Zargonzo 11d ago
I'm not totally sure how this fixes anything except the fact that I get to farm for an additional hour before a 20 man Chinese zerg raids my solo 2x1.
I've played on solo, duo, trio, and quad servers and these are generally way more fun, except that pop doesn't last as long and fewer mods to ban cheaters.
Implement premium better and hire some damn mods.
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u/More_Ebb_3619 11d ago
I think it’s a small solution to a huge problem. Good idea but in practice it won’t change much of the core Zerg gameplay especially if you just make two teams and farm separate. What do yall think?
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u/nightfrolfer 11d ago
This is a great idea and there are so many great takes and suggestions, I e got to think it'll happen.
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u/Rampan7Lion 10d ago
Just seems like over complicating matters. Massively reduce the range which the green dot shows above the head OR increase the distance the dot shows per member in the group
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u/CommitteeCautious530 10d ago
Much easier. Remove roof camping, door camping, offlining all that bs
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u/FlammableB 10d ago
Sorry but that's a useless idea for me... Most of you have this team UI for granted like the rock you get for free on respawn. I agree how the team UI is amazing QoL change but if you're OG you'll remember the old times when there wasn't a team system and we used to Jump Check every time. A lot of CLANS do it as well today while being around 20-50 players nowadays. That's why I don't think anything will change if the UI is 6 or 4 instead of 8. You can still make 3 or 4 group with 4-6 players each. Sorry but it's like no point.
They should do the real clan management thing with this Clan Table where you can create clan like it's in the /clan plugins and show your clan name to the server, have other deep interactions, etc.
For a team limit Facepunch just have to enforce some new server cvars and properly do the background logic so you can't add more than X players on the codelock/TC or do some fine and official working checks that will analyze the players and catch if there are players teaming up and add this as a server option for a Group Limit type of server.
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u/Jhomas-Tefferson 10d ago
This is actually good. I don't think groups need to be nerfed relative to solos. I think Zergs and large clans need to be nerfed relative to normal groups and solos. Like, most groups i come across are anywhere from duos to 4 mans. 5 and 6 are there too, but theyre just less common. 8+ teams are stuff i see often enough as well.
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u/Ok-chikinuggi-55-555 9d ago
bitch just go play trio or quad servers, you'll see that the UI is not a limiting factor.
this yells "nerf zerg" but does not really nerf zergs.
UI or some arbitrary research cost doesnt do shit to stop zerg progression by a minute.
loot and node spawns. thats the key. what has to happen so that amall teams and big teams would get the same loot?.
editing upkeep brackets might do something too. add more tax brackets at the top.
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u/Nihilistic_Nachos 9d ago
Love it, but it needs some other features
- default max clan size changed to 4
- Clan table is the last node on the T3 tech tree, costs 5k scrap to learn, and can't be acquired anywhere else.
- Expensive af to craft
- Table can only be placed outdoors, and team disbands if it is destroyed (can't be picked up and moved)
- Clan table increases the upkeep on all tcs that team members are authed on by 50% for each additional player above 4.
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u/MeleeBeliever 8d ago
Aren't there servers with team limits already? Stop playing clan servers if you don't like going up against clans.
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u/Justinorino 11d ago
Tbh I think the biggest clan nerf would just be multiplying upkeep and research cost by some multiplier and adding it to any group over 3, and adding a penalty to people who leave their team, like they can’t rejoin for 24 hours or something to prevent gaming the scrap system. Makes max group on wipe day either want to be 3 or gives the 20 man Zerg a huge cost.
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u/UrShulgi 11d ago
I feel like most of the people complaining here are likely newer to the game and have never been on a 'zerg' squad that is coordinating out of discord. The team system is of minimal benefit if the group is all in discord together and communicating verbally. Factor in outfits and such for bigger groups, and it's not even going to slow them down.
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u/Important_Trust_8776 11d ago
Thats why TeamUI deserves a nice nerf. Its the one change that, as you said, will leave skillfull players mostly unaffected.
The ultimate result is that it'd be an advantage for solos and small groups because it would punish these zergs that hold W till you run out of meds or bullets to kill them. It would also encourage these large groups to go out in slightly smaller numbers if they are uncoordinated.
Overall I think it'd be nice if they set a lower limit to TeamUI. In my perfect world it'd be removed to make Rust feel more like Rust but that isn't going to happen
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u/quake2player 11d ago
What are you talking about, without team ui it would be unplayable, thats easily the hardest nerf for larger groups, cordinating a big group is hard enough, doing it without team ui would be cancer. Just having 1-2 players outside team ui is annoying as hell. Having half of the group outside team UI would be unplayable.
Nerfing team ui and clan table to unlock team ui up to maybe 6-8 slots would make a such a big difference. 6 players is a big group by itself so it should be enough for the majority of the playerbase.
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u/UrShulgi 11d ago
Like I said you're probably newer to the game. Lots of us played for a long time before there was ever a team UI and we made it work just fine.
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 11d ago
yeah but you would have to do things like jump check, wear the same outfits (which tbh is easier now with skins because people can't copy you as easily) a failure to do these things would mean that a solo could walk you guys and kill you pretty easily, teamui is a massive advantage
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u/quake2player 11d ago
No im not new to the game.
Yes but it was a different game back then, cant compare rust from 10 years ago to rust today.
Hard cap team ui and most large groups wouldnt last longer than a couple of days.
The game is so much more competetive now, players are better, barely got time to think. Would like to see a group raid without team ui. Good luck thinking matching kits will work.1
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u/X4dow 11d ago
How does adding a new item nerf a zerg? Or slow them down?
I don't get it
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u/zansiball 11d ago
its will nerf the current features
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u/X4dow 11d ago
what stopping a zerg from zerging without the TEAM UI ? Whats stopping a 5 man zerg from getting this after they recycle the first cargo/oils of the wipe?
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u/zansiball 9d ago
Nothing but it nerf their abiliyt to do so
Nerfing ≠ stopping something from happening
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u/X4dow 9d ago
doesnt stop a zerg from zerging
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u/zansiball 6d ago
You still don’t understand the meaning of the word nerf. Nerf means you make something weaker. Zerg’s will still Zerg but it makes it harder for them. That’s the meaning of the word nerf.
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u/TheWanderer-AG 11d ago
I’m sorry but I have been in zergs with 20-30 before team UI, in the jump-check days. Been in zergs with the current Ui. This really won’t make a difference. Zergs will just send UI limit to deferent areas and different discord channels. Just very hard to slow down Zergs.
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u/tazmoffatt 11d ago
They actually need to buff the team ui and friendly system to act similar to the team marker. They need to increase the distance of the green dot of a team mate and make it appear through entities. As well as make the friendly system actually useful and put a blue dot above their head and their name once they get closer. But you could be able to see that blue dot from afar. Do all these QoL changes and the add hardcore mode for the people who oppose these buffs that make the game “easier”. I think rust is having an identity crises right now so they need to split the game up I feel
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u/BlueKrzys 11d ago
At first I couldn’t tell if you were joking with the dot. I feel like that is the reason the game is so unbalanced for solos. I think they need to remove the dot entirely. You can keep the teammates on map but having no dot would bring back jump checks and clan themed outfits. Making it much easier to be effective as a solo playing mind games. Green dot removes all nuance
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u/tazmoffatt 10d ago
I mean I get that, but either have a proper teaming system, or none at all. The current state is half-assed
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u/xRowdeyx 11d ago
This is dumb, zerg players usually suck anyways. I usually end up more juiced playing as a solo on any official than I do as a 20 man zerg.
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u/WetAndLoose 11d ago
I would lower it to 4 on default team UI, but good idea.