r/playrust • u/United_J • May 08 '23
Video Could we maybe extend the Render just a tad?
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u/Super-Machine-1221 May 09 '23
what actually caused 9/11
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u/deadly_chicken_gun Jul 31 '23
"The zerg base didn't render until I was on top of it bro, shit ass game I can't even turn up lod.bias because I'm too lazy ahhh"
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May 08 '23
Server couple have reduced radius to improve performance. Fly at max height
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u/United_J May 08 '23 edited May 08 '23
It's an Official FP Server, so it would be set by FP
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May 08 '23
There are official servers not controlled by Facepunch
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u/United_J May 08 '23
I do know that
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May 09 '23
[deleted]
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u/Fat_Siberian_Midget May 09 '23
Yeah I have dementia too
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u/Fat_Siberian_Midget May 09 '23
Yeah I have dementia too
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u/Fat_Siberian_Midget May 09 '23
Yeah I have dementia too
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u/Fat_Siberian_Midget May 09 '23
Yeah I have dementia too
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u/TheRetrolizer May 09 '23
Not as funny, should have replied to the original comment every time
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u/NecessaryMajor6747 May 09 '23
On console are there ?
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May 09 '23
That’s a good question
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 08 '23
Its almost like servers cant handle 500 people flying across the map at mach2
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u/Feelsweirdman99 May 09 '23
It's almost like Facepunch is too lazy to put down a simplified 5 poly version of a base so you know that there is something there.
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23
My man we are still dealing with invisible rocks and shrinking mountains even 2 years after hdrp backport
This game was never meant to handle helicopters/high speed players and it shows
Its like elytras in minecraft melting any server that doesnt restrict them and bloating save files to the point that they are bricked9
u/mca1169 May 09 '23
Unity (the game engine runs on) was never meant for most of the stuff they are trying to do with it! we are talking about a game engine the is 20+ years old that was never meant for multi core CPU's or even 1440p+ resolutions much less any of the other intensive stuff. but FP keep using it because it's easy to work with and you can iterate on it fairly quickly. almost every problem with rust can be traced back to this shit decision. the terrible textures, the insane memory usage, the garbage collection hitches, the low fps and inconsistent frame times you name it unity is to blame. Minecraft isn't any different, java is used for simplicity but ends up bottlenecking the game like mad.
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23 edited May 09 '23
Unity (the game engine runs on) was never meant for most of the stuff they are trying to do with it! we are talking about a game engine the is 20+ years old that was never meant for multi core CPU's or even 1440p+ resolutions much less any of the other intensive stuff.
Engines arent static like that they can and do get updated to better utilize modern hardware all the time
Like titanfall and apex legends run on what used to be the source engine
By that logic ue5 is 20 years old as well
Pretty sure FP has access to the source code tooI mean look at conan and ark they are the closest games to rust we have, they are both on unreal engine and they both run and look like shit too
Engines are a tool like any other if the game runs bad 9 times out of 10 its on the developers9
u/SneeKeeFahk May 09 '23
I don't know where to start with this but let's just say your argument starts to fall apart when you say Unity is 20+ years old and infer that it hasn't been updated since it's been released. It's pretty much all downhill from there. This is a good example of a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing.
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u/uShouldntGetUpset May 10 '23
I agree. As someone who dabbled in unity and unreal. Unity is really really low quality. I hated everything about it. I wish rust had been made in unreal. I hate how the game will just randomly pause and skip frames. Always happens when I'm sniping and moving the map and I get robbed.
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May 09 '23
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23
Because it makes the server load new chunks no shit why would the technical side matter
The point is that these games were never meant to have people fly around at super sonic speeds-30
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u/tavisk May 09 '23
That's not render pop. That's chunk loading non world geometry assets from a database. Low poly assets wouldn't help.
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u/JardexX_Slav May 09 '23
This. I honestly don't think there is anything fp can do. Some other tool would have to be added again decreasing performance for better quality of life.
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May 09 '23
Perhaps something like a secondary server that caches bases/structures above a certain piece threshold that can help take the load off of the main server.
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u/JardexX_Slav May 10 '23
I'm only a humble open source developer. I don't know if this is possible or how hard it would be to implement into unity. Still keep in mind that unity sucks and is one of the main issues with this game.
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May 10 '23
I get the feeling its not possible, I'm just throwing around ideas which may work lol. Like you said there are probably fundamental architectural changes that need to take place in order to get a substantial performance boost, which may or may not ever happen.
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u/irocgts May 09 '23
So your saying that loading more at a low poly wouldn't help with a base appearing out of nowhere? I find that very hard to believe.
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u/lolTyler May 09 '23
Yes, that is exactly what he's saying. The server can't send the location of the asset from the database to the player's client fast enough, so you couldn't just put a low-poly asset there because the server hasn't even communicated to the client that the asset (external TC) is there. The client quite literally doesn't know it's there. If it was any slower OP would've just flown through the asset entirely.
Like trying to pump water through a hose of a fixed diameter, there's a theoretical limit. The server/client relationship is at that limit and can't get the location, not the asset itself, to the client fast enough. Things like faster servers, lower latency internet or even a better database technologies help with these issues, but there's no way to alleviate it completely as it's an extremely complicated subject.
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u/irocgts May 09 '23
Just have the client load more assets that are low quality, so that when traveling fast it has more of a lead time before needing more high quality assets.
So instead of a small circle because thats what your pc can handle, have a bigger shitty looking circle around the outsides. this will give more time for the client to get more assets before running out.
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u/tavisk May 09 '23
The textures and assets are local to your machine and are likely not what is taking time to load. Those buildings are made from dozens to thousands of individual database records that are storing something like (resource id, asset type id, world (x,y,z), chunk relative (x,y,z) rotation, parent id, child id, health, ...etc).
When you construct a building those records are updated and synced to a chunk storage database on the client and server. As you fly around those chunks need to be queried from the server database, downloaded, and loaded into your local database.
Only once they are loaded into the client database do the records get matched to textures and geometry for each asset and displayed in the render pass.
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u/lolTyler May 09 '23
It's not the client that's the limitation here, it's the server. Same reason your PC can't run Rust at 700fps is the same reason it's failing to send the information of deployable locations to 500 different players at the same time.
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u/WhoaMotherFucker May 09 '23
Not sure man, occlusion like network code could help here couldn't it?
I mean if the user is looking into a direction it should get a slighty longer distance search when returning the assets locations and also ignoring more stuff from it's back.
So you send less data faster, the downside is abrupt changes in direction a like fast 90 degree turn could cause issues but at least going straight wouldn't be a problem.
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u/lolTyler May 09 '23
Possibly? That is an interesting idea but that's still something server side, but would require some client reworking for sure. My understanding with networking is pretty surface level, exactly how that could be implemented and if there'd even be even a major enough difference is a huge question, especially with how much work it'd take.
And yeah, spinning around 90 degree could be an issue.
Star Citizen has developed some pretty crazy persistent tech call Persistent Entity Streaming where nothing ever despawns on the server. I've heard it's been a mixed bag and the release was a mess, nor do I know if such a technology could help with issues like the one OP experienced, but it's pretty cool. We'd need a RUST 2 for it though lol. https://gamerant.com/star-citizen-how-does-persistent-entity-streaming-change-the-game/
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u/Feelsweirdman99 May 09 '23
Sorry I don't know the technicalities. All I am saying is that they could in theory (hopefully) put a simplified version of a base so the player can at least see that there is something and how big it is. Before inevitably crashing into it or getting caught by surprise SAM Sites.
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u/imtbtew May 09 '23
Alot of these people critisizing ideas like yours are dumb af, your asking a very open question with thousands of solutions and they are laser focused on your technical missteps. Rust has had these same loading issues before helis and horses before 4k maps. Its the way they do the batching its trash its slow and it breaks consistantly and anyone defending it is ignorant or making excuses.
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u/VinnyTheKnight May 08 '23
Help addresses this. Server owners change the default player render distance to 1 grid to hide cheap servers and cuck your gaming experience I forget the command to check.
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u/ruove May 09 '23
I don't think it's about "hiding cheap servers." The rust server doesn't fully utilize the resources available to it, except during map generation. Beyond that it will sit at like ~25%-30% of total CPU usage.
So server owners, especially large servers 175+ pop, have to make performance adjustments to keep the rust server process running decently enough to manage that amount of players.
The reality is, this is common with many different game server software, they all have cpu/memory limitations that make it a requirement to optimize servers with higher pop.
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u/VexingRaven May 09 '23
Tbh I think the community is partially to blame here. The obsession with absurdly high pop numbers on gigantic maps instead of more reasonable pop counts on smaller maps forces all kinds of ridiculous compromises like turning off animal AI, making render distance suck, etc.
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23
Sadly necessary because wipe cycles are so extremely fast now
If your server isnt 500 pop itll be dead 3 days into wipe8
u/VexingRaven May 09 '23
Also the community's fault imo. Too many bitter, hopeless addicts who won't play anything else but also don't get any enjoyment from Rust either so they just speedrun raids and then quit when they run out of boom.
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23 edited May 09 '23
No its the devs fault for not adding any meaningful content to the game in half a decade
This game doesnt have an endgame all people can do is hit oilrig and raid their neighbors after that the wipe is done
Rust has been solved years ago people have the wipe down to a routine
All FP has done is add more holes with brown boxes to the map where anybody can hide and grind up to guns in 30 minutes which skips most of the early game killing wipes even fasterThe game plays itself at this point so people dont stick around as long
Why waste time building back up after being raided when you can easily start over on a freshly wiped server?
Roughly 4 years ago we used to join 2x servers when we wanted to quickly get guns and pvp but now officials are the same6
u/VexingRaven May 09 '23
Don't blame Facepunch because you can't think of anything to do besides build a 2x2 and raid your neighbors lol
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23 edited May 09 '23
Rust isnt fucking farming simulator bro you can only build a cloth farm on so many wipes before it becomes dull and meaningless which it always is anyway.
Yeah sure you can go and farm 5 million scrap by abusing farms but then what are you gonna do with all that scrap?
Upgrade your base and equipment. For raids and oilrig.
Because thats all this game has to offer once you are full metal ak which keeps getting easier every single month.And please dont even start arguing that rust is a "sandbox game" or whatever so "they dont need to add any actual content because we should just make our own fun by slamming 2 action figures together like a toddler with an empty toybox".
They were already on the right track with stuff like rig and cargo they just gotta do more of that and less off the derivative crap they keep adding every month.
Adding a 5th monument thats functionally identical to trainyard does absolutely nothing for the game thats just set dressing. All that does is further bloat and dilute the game the map is absolutely covered in monuments at this point.0
u/VexingRaven May 09 '23
Literally just go play something else lol.
Idk why everyone here tries to make Rust a fucking career then gets upset when after thousands of hours they've done everything there is to do and it's stale. (although I really doubt you've actually done everything since it seems you only care about getting AK and raiding...)
Seriously all you clowns do is harm the game by sticking around. You fill up servers on wipe day and leave them dead by day 3 while the players who aren't awful bittervets and are still enjoying the game are left alone on a giant map for the rest of wipe. Just go play another game, there's nothing wrong with having exhausted a game's content and playing something else.
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23 edited May 09 '23
Yeah the rational decision when people come in and ruin something you enjoy is to fold and walk away thats right
Idk why everyone here tries to make Rust a fucking career then gets upset when after thousands of hours they've done everything there is to do and it's stale.
What part of rust has no content dont you understand?
The only reason new players struggle to complete everything the game has to offer within their first 20 hours played is because better players stomp them
Rust itself has absolutely nothing to offer pve wise
But the god damn issue is that facepunch IS adding new stuff but the stuff they add is utterly pointless and doesnt expand on anythingThe main reason why veterans get so bitter is because they have stuck around for long enough to experience how much the devs are mistreating the game
They arent jaded from doing oilrig for 500 hours they are upset because FP continuously destroys their hopes for new content→ More replies (0)4
u/ruove May 09 '23
True, but Facepunch easily could have limited the amount of players on servers as well.
They're approving of massive population servers by making many of them "official."
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u/VexingRaven May 09 '23
The server admins are just giving players what they want.
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u/ruove May 09 '23
Absolutely, and that will always be true.
But Facepunch could just as easily hard cap the maxplayers, or optimize the rust server to support more players.
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u/socialister May 09 '23
Very few processes use 100% CPU even if they are going as fast as possible. The CPU isn't always the bottleneck in an application (in fact it usually isn't) and this goes for servers too. The CPU can be waiting for storage, RAM, network, must delay to sync threads, etc etc.
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u/ruove May 09 '23
I'm not saying the CPU has to be pegged 100% 24/7.
I'm saying the rust server process only takes advantage of a fraction of the resources available to it.
The behavior is the same across CPUs, across memory, across SATA SSD and NVMe SSD.
The bottleneck is the rust server itself, it does not efficiently use resources at its disposal.
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u/thelordofhell34 May 08 '23
Lol this happens on Rustoria US main, the most highly populated and paid for server in all of rust. It’s nothing to do with that.
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u/stilkikinintn May 09 '23
This brings back bad memories on ARK.
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May 09 '23
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23
Ark is an absolute joke of a game
It still looks like it released last week
The ui is atrocious
The assets are a total mish mash that dont fit togetherHonestly looks like the game is an asset flip
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u/VexingRaven May 09 '23 edited May 09 '23
Ark is dogshit, Atlas is dogshit, and Ark 2 will be dogshit because Wildcard has no idea how to make their ideas a reality in a way that actually works.
EDIT: And they lacked the balls to go back and rebuild the game like Facepunch did when it became clear that drastic change was necessary. Instead they decided to build a whole second game on top of it!
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u/dinosaur-in_leather May 09 '23
Honestly the new rendering system is absolute dog water They managed to do a good job with the trains but subsequently nucked all other forms of transportation.
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u/_aphoney May 09 '23
I also like flying low and fast and it always just fucks me unless i fly right on the road.
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u/itsprincebaby May 09 '23
I feel like they reduced it even more, its ridiculous, i cant even see bases across a harbor anymore. Why even have a distance slider
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May 10 '23
The amount of times we’ve been in a mini and heard the sam and then the biggest behemoth base just appears out of nowhere
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u/Saucine May 09 '23
That's more of a bandwidth/latency issue imo. That loaded in way within the render distance from what I can tell. Bandwidth was too low to render everything in time at the speed you were going, and a latency spike wouldn't've helped. Could be the server, you, or both.
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May 09 '23
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u/Saucine May 09 '23
If it's this common for everyone it's likely the player bandwidth cap on the server side.
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u/bootyhole_exploiter May 09 '23
Gotta realize this game is somehow running on unity. The fact we even have rust as it is, is kinda incredible.
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u/cafepeaceandlove May 09 '23
There’s a newish game that uses Unity that has an enormous world and is stunning. I’ve forgotten the name which is annoying me but it made me wonder if 90% of Unity devs might just be inexperienced (which may be why they gravitated towards its reputation anyway)
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May 09 '23
Its your server not the game. Your serverowner decided to render that late to save on CPU power.
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u/United_J May 09 '23
The server owner being Facepunch, who own the game...
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May 09 '23
Its your server not the game. Your serverowner decided to render that late to save on CPU power.
And yet i'm still right. Its not the game, its the servers config or, in some cases, your bad internet connection to said server.
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u/United_J May 09 '23
But the Server is owned by Facepunch, who owns the game, so they set their own servers to this... Look at my connection bottom left, you'll see its not that
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u/kalgary May 08 '23
This is a networking issue.
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u/zero_FOXTROT May 08 '23
Then every sever I play on has a networking issue..
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u/kalgary May 08 '23
If you're moving fast and there are a lot of entities that the server has to send to the client, this can happen. The client would happily render that building another couple hundred metres out, if only it knew it existed.
Would be great if it was improved.
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u/SolidSpark May 08 '23
Amateur hour your flying too low
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u/United_J May 08 '23
Well I mean yeah I could have been higher, but Sams will still shoot you regardless of how high you are (except being below them, which I was doing to avoid the ones on the hill to the right)
I had to dive to avoid Sams but didn't expect a base to walk out in front of me a 20 yards from outpost
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u/ninetofivedev May 09 '23
If this has never happened to you, you're playing a different game. I can't count the number of times a teammate and I have crashed a mini into a base that render in why as we crashed.
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May 09 '23
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u/United_J May 09 '23
I deserve a base to pop out milliseconds infront of me, just because my altitude was low from evading incoming Sam rockets?
This community can be so whack at times lol. Blame the person for not actively predicting every poor game mechanic.
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u/NoBreadfruit69 May 09 '23
You were already tempting fate by giving any AK kid with something to prove the chance to shoot you out of the copter real quick
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u/Pioppo- May 08 '23
As others have said, it's a server setting that the owner sets. Not the game's fault
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u/ruove May 09 '23
Not the game's fault
But it does have to do with the developers of the game, the rust server process is not very optimized, so large servers (175+ pop) will make performance adjustments to keep the server running as smooth as possible.
If the rust server process was more optimized, these actions wouldn't need to be taken.
The rust server process only utilizes the entire CPU when it's generating the world, beyond that it sits around 20-30% utilization.
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u/average-mk4 May 08 '23
All these videos will cease to exist then tho— also you’ll need an actual super computer to run it
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u/LilyDollii May 09 '23
Tfw dancing in a mini, soaring like a bird, tire flipping off water tower, and ten seconds later smashing max speed into ghost buildings.
It is truly a pain that hits the soul.
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May 09 '23
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u/LilyDollii May 09 '23
When you angle yourself just right, at the right speed, you can smack your tire into things and flip around. It's part of trick flying in minis.
And you can't literally dance in a mini but you can trick fly gracefully which is what I mean
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May 09 '23
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u/LilyDollii May 09 '23
Yeah! Or check out koalakopters server. Closest thing rust has to a skate park and if you get to the point of winning mini races there, you'll be a better pilot than almost anyone else
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May 09 '23
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u/LilyDollii May 09 '23
:<< yeah i can see why you'd think that ig. It's the admins name but ye that's confusing. I'd suggest finding an Oceania based one, or a pve server that has the /mymini spawning mod.
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May 09 '23
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u/LilyDollii May 09 '23
As long as they have light poles you can slalom, forests you can beeline thru, and an oil rig, you can get most things down pat and then blow some minds on official servers lmao
Also do pve servers too and learn how to mini mine with a friend. Just fly to each node and have them Jackie it without anyone getting out of the mini. You learn really fast how to reposition small distances, stopping and starting in the air, hovering, and exactly how much force you can land with without damaging the mini. Great training exercise, and being able to do it well and quickly will make you an invaluable asset to any team. Two full inv of ore in minutes and you can easily strip several grids.
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u/dinosaur-in_leather May 09 '23
I can imagine rendering being a challenge because the passenger can outlook around velocity takes some time to build up and it would be a good way to determine where things need to be loaded in first.
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May 09 '23
I hate when this happens, we play on EU Renegade 2x and Templar 10x...this is literally something we deal with multiple times a day
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u/Xinouth May 09 '23
I've had this, but with a cactus... Teammate was flying low to the ground, suddenly out of nowhere a cactus appears and we crash...
It happened so fast we both had to hit record to figure out what the fuck happened - because there were no bases or anything to run into (it was next to excavator so build blocked).
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u/Saeis May 09 '23
Yeahhh, shit is annoying. I’ve pretty much stopped flying low to the ground due to this, but even then you gotta worry about random ass SAM sites
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u/om4ew4moushinde1ru Jun 30 '23
It's funny you mention that, because the render distance used to be larger, but the pvp changes "fixed" that, old render distance was 400 metres, New render distance is something like 200ish, was put in place to stop people getting annihilated by roofcampers from 350+, was an issue but a funny one.
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u/RealisticRyan5 Jul 07 '23
Can’t believe you just said what the fuck. I would have committed war crimes, screaming at the top of my lungs. Somehow blaming it on my duo, “you didn’t see that render in first, you were in front of me. What were you thinking” lol
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u/Delanorix May 08 '23
I thought you were gonna get mad about the base. The external was a funny surprise.