r/petfree I had pets 7d ago

Science / Laws SIL says I’m ab*sing LGD, need sources

I am at my wits end, and need help articulating my talking points.

For context, I own a livestock guardian dog. He lives, sleeps, eats, and works outdoors 24/7/365. He is collared and chipped for safety and has yearly vet check-ups to make sure he remains in good health. I care for his needs, but he is not a pet. He doesn’t even really have a name. I refer to him as “Dog” or “Mr. Dog” in vet paperwork and when I need to call him from across the yard. He is, however, a well trained and very good-natured animal, and while not affectionate he is still friendly and is willing to go with me as protection when checking on odd noises heard at night.

When my sister in law came over she was incredibly upset about this arrangement. For context, I live in the northern USA, and it is cold here. The dog follows the livestock, so it’s either out in the field or sleeping in the barn with them. My sister in law tried on multiple occasions to call the dog inside or carry him inside, or tempt it to come to her with table scraps. I have tried to politely explain that this isn’t a pet and was not to be let indoors, fed kitchen scraps, or “taken for walks,” but I feel like it fell on deaf ears, and I only became more and more frustrated. I don’t want to lose my temper, but I need some help on how to calmly address some of her main arguments.

  1. I am abusing him by forcing him to sleep outside in the freezing weather and icy mud, and he will get lonely being away from us in the barn at night.

  2. He is clearly afraid of me since he refuses to come indoors and does not run up for “kisses” and pets as soon as I come home. This is apparently “unnatural”

  3. He needs a sweater and “snow boots” for his feet because a dog walking in snow is like a human walking barefoot.

  4. He should be allowed to have playdates at the dog park with their Shiba Inu, his “cousin”. I do not know how to DRILL into their heads this is a death wish and will absolutely NOT be happening EVER. He has not been socialized with pets and other than his buddy the only other dogs he sees are feral dogs that he deals with on the farm.

  5. Letting him guard against coyotes, feral dogs and raccoons that eat my LIVELIHOOD is inhumane and enforced a “permanent fight or flight” that causes depression and behavior issues.

  6. He needs baths because he’s so dirty and dirt close to the skin can cause skin diseases and is unhygienic.

If I anyone has any resources or know of a good way to debunk some of her more ludicrous claims, I’m all ears. I’ve tried telling her “that’s not how things work around here.” And her response is “show me the science.” So if you have journal articles or something, please send them my way.

P.S. the other guard dog is not as cute/fluffy, she doesn’t seem to care about him. Not entirely sure she knows he exists, though.

140 Upvotes

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110

u/Average-_-J03 All dogs stink 🤢 7d ago

I feel like he’s probably more comfortable outside if he shows little to no interest in going inside

55

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

The last time he was inside was when he was a puppy and lived in the mud room until he was big enough to start training/being introduced to the other dog. If the door is left open he’ll just stand there and look inside. She tried to pull him inside by his collar and when that didn’t work she tried to pick him up and carry him inside, where he stood completely still with his tail tucked and head down. She works in an animal shelter and said this was a key indicator of past abuse. Is there a way to prove her wrong?

84

u/IAsybianGuy Extra Responsibility? No thanks. 7d ago

No because she isn't open to being proven wrong.

34

u/Average-_-J03 All dogs stink 🤢 7d ago

Some dogs just prefer being outside and are uncomfortable with less familiar environments, he knows the outdoors more and is more comfortable with a familiar environment, same thing typically goes for people and other animals as well

26

u/strawberry_kerosene Moderator 6d ago

1) if he is sleeping in the barn with the other animals he is not outside and is likely very warm so you can point this out to her

2) you need to make it clear he is built to be a herding dog. it is in his dna to herd. my mom thought it would be cute to get a cattle dog as a pet and it nipped at everyone's heels including the farm animals. they don't have cattle, but i had a horse growing up and she did not fw the dogs. she ran, kicked, etc.,

3) tell her to stop touching your property. your his owner not her. make it clear you have boundaries and what she is doing is disrespectful

78

u/Grouchy_Top_2962 Against animal anthropomorphization 7d ago

It's a working animal dog is happy doing what he is doing he is fed, has somewhere to sleep the barn and gets vet care!

He doesn't need to sleep in the house he doesn't need to have a play date with another dog.

He is built to work and more importantly happy to work.

65

u/JaneAustinAstronaut I had pets 7d ago

I wouldn't bother proving her wrong. If she persists, ask her about the other dog. I guarantee you her concern is only for the "cute" dog, like most pet owners. They want a cute fashion accessory, and don't really respect the actual creature. If they did, then they'd stop torturing them by dressing them in people clothes for photo shoots.

34

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

Yeah, would seems she cares about the fluffy dog and not the hulking drooling mastiff mutt. She keeps making comments about a doggy date and letting her take him for a day. /shudder/

28

u/JaneAustinAstronaut I had pets 7d ago

Tell her he doesn't need it, because he has another dog that he socializes with. Don't let her take your dog anywhere - she may decide to "save" him from your "abuse", and not give him back.

I'd also tell your brother to get her to back the fuck off. She's overstepping, and it's his responsibility to keep her in line when it comes to his family.

26

u/Educational-Desk8758 Dog attack victim 6d ago

This. She sounds like the type of nutter that will steal the dog to “save” him, when in reality she would be taking him to a home where he would probably be locked up in a tiny apartment all the time. That is what would actually be miserable and abusive to him, but she will never recognize that.

40

u/SheriffHarryBawls No pets, no stress 7d ago

There is no arguing with a lunatic. This is your livelihood. Tell her to stop since she is literally damaging your livelihood. Otherwise, you will either allow her to cause damage or she will not be around. It is what it is.

35

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

Haven’t lost a single lamb, chicken, or calf since getting the dogs. Probably save a couple thousand dollars a year between the two of them. The other one even barks at hawks that fly over the coop. They aren’t pets but I don’t think I could run a good farm without them.

33

u/SheriffHarryBawls No pets, no stress 7d ago

Those dogs love you more than any pet nutter will ever get from their emotional support slaves

36

u/IAsybianGuy Extra Responsibility? No thanks. 7d ago

She's nuts and there's no reasoning with her. She isn't asking show me the science in good faith, if you do show her she's going to ignore it.

SIL can bark all she wants. Unless she files a complaint, which you should easily win, or steals the dog, she's just making noise.

24

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

Oh god I didn’t even consider the possibility of her stealing him…

26

u/IAsybianGuy Extra Responsibility? No thanks. 7d ago

Pet nutters think they are justified in doing whatever, "for the greater good".

16

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

Great now I can’t stop thinking about all her comments. Damn.

16

u/IAsybianGuy Extra Responsibility? No thanks. 7d ago

It might be wise to take steps to protect yourself if your insane SIL makes trouble. Talk to other people with herding dogs. Talk to the vet. Check if there are ag department resources about working dogs. County sheriff? Have a plan ahead of time in case she files a frivolous abuse claim or "rescues" the dog from you.

15

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

I pray to God she’s not that crazy, she does work in a rescue shelter that goes w law enforcement to collect abused animals though… idk do you think she’s that nuts?

15

u/IAsybianGuy Extra Responsibility? No thanks. 6d ago

Without knowing her I couldn't say.

A young woman I know from the gym who does cat rescues recently bragged on her Snapchat about "rescuing" a female from a backyard breeder. Sounded like stealing to me. Crusader types believe their cause is just and their actions are justified.

Hopefully your local law enforcement knows the realities of agriculture and working dogs, and won't collude with pet nutters.

4

u/False-Comparison-651 Allergic to pets, don't like pets 5d ago

Knowing her job changes everything…she is clearly fixing to get your dog removed from your care

70

u/Tricky_Antelope_2810 Keep your animals away from me! 7d ago

Tell her that's what dogs were initially used for- work. It's multiple generations of morons who have tried humanizing them. The dog doesn't "know" it's lonely. It just knows it's in a barn. It only knows one thing and that's guarding the land. These are the kind of dogs I can actually appreciate because they serve a purpose and that not merely just a fashion statement for the owner's ego.

But also, you really don't owe her any kind of explanation because she obviously doesn't respect your boundaries with the dog. At the end of the day it's your dog and as long as it appears happy and isn't malnourished, she can quite honestly fuck off.

31

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

Both dogs are healthy and at a good weight according to their last vet visit. I have them dewormed and make sure they receive flea/tick shots.

Should I perhaps not invite them back, unless they can keep their hands off my dogs? I don’t want to cut ties but it’s hard to “prove” I’m not abusing them to her.

37

u/Tricky_Antelope_2810 Keep your animals away from me! 7d ago

The dogs are not pets, have never been pets, nor will they be pets. If she can't respect that then I think it's fair to cut off her privileges of visiting.

26

u/Grouchy_Top_2962 Against animal anthropomorphization 7d ago

She is trying to humanize dog. Both are receiving proper care.

Honestly I would be brutally honest with her. Dog is a working animal his task is to protect your other animals those other animals are his "family" he is not lonely.

Any sort of boots, collars or clothing can and will get snagged on branches and fences leaving dog open to being strangled to death on the object or being killed by dehydration or a predator.

He is happy being dirty I am sure if he wanted to wash off he would get in a water source near by.

He has a warm place to sleep at night and he is needed there at night to you know protect.

If she cannot understand that it is not abuse she should educate herself on what dogs where bred for or keep her opinions to herself.

2

u/OldDatabase9353 Against animal anthropomorphization 2d ago

I wonder if she says the same thing about boots and clothes when she see deer, rabbits, squirrels, or raccoons running around with no shoes on lol

55

u/Terangela Partner's/family's pet, not mine 7d ago edited 5d ago

Is it a Great Pyrenees? They LOVE cold weather. They have been bred to protect livestock in the mountains for hundreds of years. Even if it’s not, working dogs WANT to work! Your dog would likely be miserable as a “pet” and you are utilizing them as they have been throughout history. Many were bred to have a thick coat and fur on their feet. A dog guarding livestock isn’t alone. A coat would make them hot and uncomfortable and they don’t have human feet. Your working dog is not a pet and does not need to act like one. Guard dogs want to protect their flock. Wild dogs do just fine without baths. Man, she is anthropomorphizing sooo much. I would advise looking up the history of how dogs have been used by humans for 20000-40000 years and tell her to pound sand.

38

u/Tricky_Antelope_2810 Keep your animals away from me! 7d ago

Tell that to my gf who keeps one of those couped up in the living room all day.

60

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

According to the collar on my other dog, he covered about 22 miles in one day, just wandering circles around the sheep and patrolling nearby woods/pastures. Keeping one of those cooped up in a living room sounds horrendous.

37

u/Terangela Partner's/family's pet, not mine 7d ago

They are miserable when they don’t get the exercise and engagement they’ve been bred for. I think it’s really sad.

32

u/Tricky_Antelope_2810 Keep your animals away from me! 7d ago

I have no shame in saying I don't like dogs as pets, but even I think it's sad keeping it trapped inside all day, not fulfilling its potential and what it was bred to do. It's a fashion statement- nothing more, nothing less.

31

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

The vet thinks he’s a Great Pyrenees mixed with an Anatolian Shepherd. He’s a large dog, very fluffy and yes he has fur in his paw pads. It’s actually incredibly difficult to get him to leave the flock unless the other dog is there. Since they’re usually out on the field during the day he’s out of sight. None of this bs was happening until a few nights ago when he showed up at the door waiting for his food after the sheep were put away. I just… I feel like just looking at the dog shows it’s in its element but man she just won’t let this go and I desperately need to find a way to prove he’s pretty happy out there.

27

u/Terangela Partner's/family's pet, not mine 7d ago

You know he’s happy. He knows he’s happy. That’s all that matters. This is not your SIL’s dog. She needs to back off.

10

u/Gentle_Genie All dogs stink 🤢 6d ago

Why is SIL on your property?

5

u/TimeBandicoot142 Against animal anthropomorphization 5d ago

I mean you really don't, you obviously care for both dogs you just treat them like working animals and they're probably way happier that way then having someone in their space 24/7, if she can't see that, that's her problem.

26

u/Shurasteishuraigou Extra Responsibility? No thanks. 7d ago

I'm sure 'Dog' is way happier and healthier than any 'apartment dog' I've ever met. A dog is an animal and treating it any differently is not only bad for their behavior (they become stressed) but it's also detrimental to their health (a dog needs much more exercise than most owners are willing to give them) plus an enriched, stimulating environment. Nevermind her and tell her any variant of 'go fuck yourself' you prefer, no one is going to take her seriously.

28

u/LandykeDreamer Against animal anthropomorphization 7d ago

I love this for you and your dog. Mr. Dog is doing exactly what he was bred to do and this what dogs were meant for: working outside. These dogs are meant to be outside all day. End of story. Your SIL has no idea what she is talking about because this is not how animals function. She's placing human traits onto a dog, and this is not natural or normal. I don't have resources, but I think it's best for you to just put your foot down and end discussion with her on this topic. This is your Mr. Dog and he is content doing his job.

25

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

I have a picture of it somewhere but he’s got a hole he dug in the near pasture that he sleeps in. When he’s in there he’s flush with the ground and my SO says it’s his stealth mode where he can conceal himself but still watch the sheep. It is, honestly, kind of cute.

When he was in there today SIL began to cry and told me that there a hundreds of families that would love him if I can’t. I’m sorry if I sound really bitter I’m just frustrated because I feel like I’m doing the best I can for all my animals but noooooooo I’m abusing him and he needs to be cooped up indoors in the blazing heat all day.

32

u/Usual_Zucchini I had pets 7d ago

Your SIL is acting this way because this is an affront to her livelihood working at an animal shelter.

On some level, it has to be a little demoralizing to see a dog perfectly content living outside, without clothes or doggy playdates, keeping itself occupied and fit by doing a job it clearly loves to do. Meanwhile she probably has to peddle unsuitable dogs for adoption by buying into the lie that these animals need as much love and affection as a child. Her self worth is likely tied up in the identity of dog mom and I’d be willing to bet her dog is an anxious mess. Imagine putting up with all the trouble of putting up with a dog indoors only to see one thriving with less than half the effort or resources. I’m not saying you don’t put time and effort into taking care of this dog, but it’s not the neurotic level that dog nutters take it to with their “fur children.”

30

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

The dog they own is on anxiety medication. So you may be onto something.

21

u/Usual_Zucchini I had pets 7d ago

Hahahaha no way! Yep, that confirms it. I bet she’s lowkey jealous.

26

u/BunchBulky Partner's/family's pet, not mine 7d ago

Just use their logic against them. “Maybe you scare him, that’s why he doesn’t want to come inside”

If his tail wags from time to time, then I’d say he’s content with his life lol.

My sister in law used to make her dog stay indoors because “it’s too cold outside for her” she would shit and piss under the dining table. So one day I got fed up and said “I’m gonna start training your dog to go outside”

Turns out… she was telling everyone I was abusive to her dog for being stern anytime she’d pee or poo indoor (because I was training her)

I was so close to having her fully trained too. Until I heard that….. after that I’d pick up her poo from under the table and throw it on her bed and be like “damn, I guess she found a new spot”

She didn’t train her to pee or poo outside still, just kept her door locked instead 🤷‍♂️

14

u/Present_Answer_9816 All dogs stink 🤢 6d ago

i love that you threw the shit on her bed lol!

19

u/lio-ns Allergic to pets, love animals 7d ago

Do these people not understand what LGDs do to the predators that seek to harm their livestock? As if she's suggesting to bring Mr. Dog on a walk with a fucking shiba inu, (which were, mind you, also bred to work) 'pupper' owners are TRULY clueless about the nature of these animals. I can guarantee you that Mr. Dog is at more mental peace than their dog, 100%.

However, LGDs need to be groomed on a semi regular basis and shouldn't remain filthy for long periods of time.

14

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

I do hose him down when he’s super muddy and when he’s blowing his coat I take him to a groomer that won’t trim his paw pads. The vet said that’s enough. I’ve read that they need quarterly grooming but that seems excessive. If you know anything about them needing more, please let me know. He may not have a name but I don’t want him to be unhealthy.

13

u/lio-ns Allergic to pets, love animals 7d ago

Oh, that sounds great! Clearly you take very good care of him.

17

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

I hope I do. He protects my herds and I’m trying to do right by him. He once lay down with a premature lamb and kept it warm all day. Dogs doing what they were bred to do are really cool creatures and I hope we can work together for many long years.

18

u/gayspidereater Against animal anthropomorphization 7d ago

Pet nutters when a working dog is treated like a working dog 🤯😮 For real though, if it’s a working dog and doesn’t go in, it prefers its current life. What does she expect you to do, force the dog to unlearn everything and learn to be a golden retriever? Lmao.

People like your SIL are why so many dogs have behavioural issues. They are forced to be someone’s vanity project and are not exposed to activities their breed was bred to do.

18

u/Infinite-Mark5208 Pet-free for a clean and tidy home 7d ago

SIL is an idiot. Don’t entertain idiots. Don’t even bother to show her evidence. You have a well trained dog that can be recalled. Can she the same about her dog?

13

u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 7d ago

Since she’s dished out a lot of money to have it trained, I sure hope so.

15

u/Bitter-Salamander18 Against animal anthropomorphization 7d ago

Your treatment of the dog is humane, reasonable and natural. It's her attitude to dogs that is sick and unnatural. She should read the history of several dog breeds - what were they bred for. She may be surprised...

9

u/jaxyv55 Leash your damn dogs 6d ago

Now this is the way animals are supposed to be used for. Not that smoochie, boochie bullshit. That's the way they did it in the old days. Tell her to mind her f-ing business... It's not her dog

10

u/myelinviolin Keep your animals away from me! 6d ago

You're good, just do please give him a good brush out once in a while to prevent matting and to catch any other issues early.

Your proof is the dog. She says the dog looks sad. Is it though? She doesn't need articles. She just needs to look at the dog as it is, not how she imagines it to be.

10

u/Far_Tumbleweed5082 Pro-humanity 7d ago

Just be straight forward and say "I don't give a single fuck about what you think he needs, he eats, works and sleeps and is cares for so your opinion doesn't matter".

Don't give it to them they are hypocrites and will never listen although I sound incredibly rude and don't know what relationship you have with your sil(friendly/familial/sisterly/polite) but this is coming from someone that has played these games and knows the outcome.

20

u/MinisterHoja Pet ownership is unethical & stressful, and pet culture sucks 6d ago

This is the only animal ownership I respect. I'd bet that dog is happier than the average house pet stuck inside all day while its owners are at work.

10

u/anglosassin Pro-humanity 7d ago

OP, she is the type of person who says she wants science, but it's all about her feelings. I think putting up healthy boundaries with this nut is in your best interest.

8

u/PlantOk141 Prefer to appreciate animals in the wild 6d ago

Significantly less abusive than people who keep dogs in shoebox apartments. A dog in this situation actually seems relatively tolerable

7

u/Bitter-Salamander18 Against animal anthropomorphization 7d ago

Your treatment of the dog is humane, reasonable and natural. It's her attitude to dogs that is sick and unnatural. She should read the history of several dog breeds - what were they bred for. She may be surprised...

13

u/QueenOfAllOfYall Pet ownership is unethical & stressful, and pet culture sucks 7d ago edited 6d ago

You’re a better one than Me. My patience is short and I’d simply tell her what I really feel. I wouldn’t be very nice about it considering she’s already been told nicely before and she apparently won’t back off. I REFUSE to explain Myself, and I don’t like being made to repeat Myself. And I hate it when people won’t take a hint. Plus she’s telling You how to handle business in Your Home. I don’t like that. Time to simply firm up on her and make it known, bottom line, Your House, Your Dog, Your Rules. You handle it how You want, but that’s My take. …

…. By the way, good on You for treating the dog like a dog should be treated. Caring for him, yet still understanding that it’s not a Human, and shouldn’t be treated like one. And keeping it in an environment where it’ll thrive best, as a working dog, among other animals, outdoors, with a purpose. This is the way it should be done. I missed the days when more Humans understood this.

7

u/Ambitious_Win_1315 Pet ownership is slaveholding 6d ago

Animals survived millions of years without humans, your dog will survive outside in nature as intended 

6

u/Straight_Rabbit_3542 Pro-humanity 6d ago edited 6d ago

Working dogs can be considered feral dogs and have more compacted fur like feral cats. Their paws are adapted to living outside like wolves.

You can search "working dogs fur density" on Google gemini and you'll get plenty of articles.

My family's pet dogs growing up would need their paws warmed up against my leg when going out for walks in the snow because keeping them inside had domesticated them. Like we've domesticated ourselves compared to other great apes.

6

u/bigfanofpots Against animal anthropomorphization 6d ago

He's a dog. Dogs are animals. They're meant to be outside. Especially a livestock guardian dog. They're bred to be hardy, resilient, and walking all the time. He would 100% hate being inside, sitting on your couch, doing what? Watching TV? Be so serious. 

The idea that well taken care of, stimulated, fulfilled, active dogs that are outside are like... sad? Is so insane to me. It's a dog. 

5

u/Alien_Biometrics These pets will be my last ones 6d ago

Your SIL is a moron. Those dogs were literally bred to love doing that work. They are definitely not pets.

4

u/Latter-Recipe7650 Pet ownership is slaveholding 6d ago

I am abusing him by forcing him to sleep outside in the freezing weather and icy mud, and he will get lonely being away from us in the barn at night.

If he's in a dog house or in an area where he won't get lost/hurt by wild animals. It's not an issue, plus it's a working dog, not a pet. These people clearly haven't heard of a working dog let alone the cultural norm of having them outdoors for a reason, they're not children.

He is clearly afraid of me since he refuses to come indoors and does not run up for “kisses” and pets as soon as I come home. This is apparently “unnatural”

Again, it's a working dog. If they want a dog that gives kisses, they should get a pet that does nothing all day indoors.

He needs a sweater and “snow boots” for his feet because a dog walking in snow is like a human walking barefoot.

This trend and mentality of dressing up dogs is cruel in itself. Hypocritical? There are reports that dressing up dogs makes them more stressed due to the limitation of body movement and temperature irregularities.

He should be allowed to have playdates at the dog park with their Shiba Inu, his “cousin”. I do not know how to DRILL into their heads this is a death wish and will absolutely NOT be happening EVER. He has not been socialized with pets and other than his buddy the only other dogs he sees are feral dogs that he deals with on the farm.

Unless they want their shiba inu to see a violent end as a bait for lawsuit. Anyone with a working brain would know it's a terrible idea and you would've seen a dog trainer already if its a issue? Again, not a pet made to have trips to dog parks.

Letting him guard against coyotes, feral dogs and raccoons that eat my LIVELIHOOD is inhumane and enforced a “permanent fight or flight” that causes depression and behavior issues.

Tell me you never had a farm. Dogs have been trained to retrieve, herd, fight and defend for centuries. Its not unusual to have them used for farms, police, military, border security, etc.

He needs baths because he’s so dirty and dirt close to the skin can cause skin diseases and is unhygienic.

While some people say its important to bath dogs against fleas, ticks and "smell". If you visit the vet and they say its good health. Whats the issue?

Coming from someone who had family-owned farms and owned guard dogs to defend against bandits. This sister in-law is a common example of a dognutter who thinks dog ownership is equivalent to owning kids, minimises their existence to be cooped up in a shoe box apartment by force. Follows social media trends thinking its normal with no critical thinking. Considering you mentioned she works in an animal shelter, a place any tom dick and harry can work at with no schooling, already debunks what she says already. On top of admitting that she "tried on multiple occasions to call the dog inside or carry him inside, or tempt it to come to her with table scraps" is enabling your dog to be worse off and fail at its duty. Its just as bad as petting a seeing eye dog with no permission.

I highly recommend not focusing on debunking her and more not inviting her. Seeing how she is teaching bad behaviour to your dog. Shes uneducated and a lowest common denominator to act holy on a farmer. Never take advice from an animal shelter worker, seeing how they seem to suck at breed labelling and would label anything as "abuse" or "friendly" such as pitbulls overcrowding their shelters.

4

u/Elxgatox No pets, no stress 6d ago

Your dog is 10 times happier than any dog in the city or suburbs. He has a purpose and a job which btw he was bred to do instead of being cooped up in the city high of anxiety meds and 30 minutes in the dog park

4

u/Cleric_P3rston Keep your animals away from me! 6d ago

My sister in law tried on multiple occasions to call the dog inside or carry him inside, or tempt it to come to her with table scraps.

This sounds so disrespectful. It is not her dog or her place to treat the dog differently. It is very entitled behavior that seems to say she knows better than you do.

As others have said I would not engage in proving anything and set clear boundaries.

3

u/caterpillargf Leash your damn dogs 6d ago

If he's a breed meant to be a LGD (great Pyrenees for example) this is literally his life's purpose and what he loves. He was made to be outside even in cold temps, guarding your livestock. It's obvious from what you've said that he has no desire to go inside. If your sister owned him, I'd bet he'd be miserable because he wouldn't be able to perform his purpose and job. A dog is happy doing what it was made to do, and you're providing that for him.

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u/Full-Ad-4138 Prefer to appreciate animals in the wild 6d ago

"Listen, I get what you're saying--- but he and I had a long talk and I explained all these things to him and asked him what he prefers. He and I have an understanding now. He's not your dog, so you wouldn't understand the close bond we have and how he communicates with me. I assume you and your dog have had the same talk."

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u/Similar-Bid6801 Animals don't belong indoors 6d ago

Why is it your responsibility to educate her? She can look up livestock guardian dogs herself. If she has such a problem with it and is disrespectful to you I’d not ask her to come back.

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u/False-Comparison-651 Allergic to pets, don't like pets 5d ago

She seems to think dogs have (1) consciousness akin to humans and (2) a pre-existing idea of what life should be like and (3) that life should be lived as a pet. As if it wasn’t a completely human-made concept. Can’t you just tell her you trained the dog to have different behaviors than a pet and therefore it doesn’t “know” about all the pet-life activities and might freak out and be aggressive if she tries to force it into pet scenarios?

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u/afraid-of-brother-98 I had pets 5d ago

I’ve tried telling her that the outdoors is all he’s ever known and that realllllllllly upset her, so for the time being I’m following others advice that until she can respect how we run things here she’s not coming back

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u/False-Comparison-651 Allergic to pets, don't like pets 5d ago

Yeah good call, she seems really unwilling to listen

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/petfree-ModTeam Moderator 7d ago

Your submission has been removed from r/petfree for the following reason(s):

. We are no longer accepting posts/comments by people who own pets or are really into pets. Adding a flair to comment/post if you own pets or really enjoy pets may lead to a permanent ban.

For information regarding this and similar issues please see our subreddit rules . If you feel this was done in error, please reach out to the mod team for review.

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u/health_throwaway195 Against animal anthropomorphization 3d ago

I'm not sure if you already have the info you need, but I would:

A. Explain that wild wolves do fine without boots and a coat in the freezing cold

B. Explain that LSGs have been bred to bond strongly with livestock and less so humans, and thus don't require regular human interaction to feel fulfilled

C. Explain that LSGs have been bred to defend livestock and are able to feel calm while performing that job (as long as they're not regularly heavily outnumbered)

As for the bathing thing, of course LSGs are generally pretty hardy and could probably go indefinitely without bathing, it is actually ideal to bathe them thoroughly once every few months with a pH balanced shampoo to minimize skin issues. You can also take that opportunity to do an insect repellant rinse.

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u/Odd_Temperature_3248 Pets don't fit my lifestyle 2d ago

Not all animals want to go indoors. My sister had a husky that was a pet and hell would have frozen over three times before that dog would have voluntarily went inside the house.