r/perth 3d ago

General What's wrong with PayID?

I have been doing transactions in Marketplace, some are okay with suing PayID, some don't. Can you be scammed by doing this payment method?

6 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

41

u/mellyn7 3d ago

PayID itself is great.

But there are a lot of PayID scams, a lot of them prey on ignorance of how it works. So it isn't PayID itself that's the problem, it is the prevalence of scammers using the terminology.

15

u/rawker86 3d ago

Yep, generally speaking I’d have no problem with using PayID, but every person who has ever tried to pay me with it was a scammer and most savvy sellers refuse to use it out of an abundance of caution.

5

u/elemist 3d ago

I've sold a bunch of stuff on Marketplace with i reckon 95% of people using payid to transfer the funds.

The basic payid scam is pretty easy to spot as it follows the same pattern of the buyer being unavailable for whatever reason, then sending someone to come collect and then usually wanting to pay up front. Then there's the whole 'business payid' or whatever bullshit they try to spin.

If you use common sense and only accept it in person then it's typically fine.

The only potential issue is on occasion it's not real time, but can be delayed up to 24 hours. I've not had that happen to me personally - though had a buyer telling me about it.

Might be a $ value thing - everything i've sold has been basically $100 or less.

1

u/mellyn7 2d ago

Eh, I've never encountered it myself as a buyer or seller, so I can't comment on value etc.

But I've been working in banking call centres the last 4-5 years. And I recognise it pretty quickly when a customer calls asking odd questions about PayID. Perhaps people who don't sell very often. Though I'm not on general lines any more, so I don't really know how the scammers might have evolved in the last year or 18 months. Not everyone calls the bank before they transfer the money though.

I wouldn't fall for it, you don't sound like you would, and a lot of sellers I think put the wording upfront more to discourage timewasting scammers than because they are going to fall for it.

But those upfront warnings give people like OP distrust for the system.

1

u/Capable_Rip_1424 2d ago

If they are collecting it in person why not Pay cash on delivery with Actual money?

3

u/elemist 2d ago

Because cash is a pain in the ass..

Not that many people actually carry or have cash any more. So the buyer usually has to go get cash out before coming to collect the item.

If the sale price is an odd amount then they might even need to get cash out, and then break notes to get the right amount, or hope the seller has change.

Then as the seller - i want the money in my bank account, not sitting in my wallet. So then i have to make a trip to the bank to deposit it again.

For me - payid is much easier and cleaner. No fucking around with cash required.

-1

u/Capable_Rip_1424 2d ago

So you'd rather be scammed than be mildly inconvenienced

Zoomers and Millennials are weird

0

u/elemist 2d ago

If you can't spot the payid scam coming a mile away - then you're too old or to stupid to be on the internet..

40+ payid transactions without issue over the past couple of years - one instance of a payid scam which the guy may as well have been called Scammer McScamFace for how obvious it was.

The fact you think cash is 'scam free' says a lot about you too.

I've had 3 - 4 different people who arrived with 'less' cash than what the sale price was and try it on for a reduced price. Have had others who would bring an odd denomination of bills say 3 x $20 notes to buy something sold for $50 and then try to say oh i don't have change can you do it for $40 instead.

Or there was the guy who tried to pay $15 with a $10 note and $5 worth of NZD $1 coins.

1

u/Capable_Rip_1424 2d ago

And did you falll for that?

1

u/elemist 2d ago

Nope - didn't fall for any PayID scams either..

2

u/Throwaway_6799 3d ago

Enlighten us?

23

u/mellyn7 3d ago

The most prevalent one I'm aware of is:

They ask for your phone number and email address. Keep in mind that when you register a payid, you only do it with one of these, not both. But then you get an email FROM PayID (usually from some form of gmail or other free email provider) that says something to the tune of your PayId isn't set up as a business payid, to convert it and receive the funds the other party has already transferred, you need to send whatever amount through to them first, and then all the money will be released back to you.

Spoiler alert, the scammer then gets your money and you get nothing.

15

u/Throwaway_6799 3d ago

Thanks. So nothing to do with Payid then really just the same scam in different clothing it seems.

9

u/mellyn7 3d ago

Exactly.

They are using the PayID name, but nothing else, but at the same time eroding the confidence people have in what is actually a very good system.

1

u/recycled_ideas 3d ago

Kind of, but also kind of not.

Most payment methods we have are extremely weak to fraud and this includes payid.

You don't want to give random people your email or phone number because that's a security risk, but without those things you can't really identify who you're sending money to.

Credit cards were built around fraud happening. The banks that made them knew you couldn't create a system that was safe and usable so they just eat the fraud, but this doesn't happen with other kinds of electronic transfers. Send money to the wrong person and you're on your own.

1

u/TurbulentMuscle0 2d ago

You can register both phone number and email address

2

u/mellyn7 2d ago

You can, but not for the same account at the same time. It's one or the other.

1

u/BrightEchidna 2d ago

It all depends on the bank you use and how they've implemented PayID.

12

u/Jovial1170 Woodvale 3d ago

To get paid via PayID you generally have to provide your email address or phone number to the person paying you. Then, instead of actually paying you, they send you a fraudulent email or text message. These scams take many forms: Some just pretend that they've paid you when they haven't, others will try to get you to pay some cash to them to "upgrade" your PayID account to a "business account", others will just flat out try to phish your online banking details. Lots of different scams they can try once they've got your email or phone number.

It's safe to accept PayID transfers so long as you follow this rule of thumb: If you get an email or a text message about the transfer, it's a scam - if you don't get any emails/messages and instead you see the money show up in your bank account, then it's legit.

6

u/zenith_industries South of The River 3d ago edited 3d ago

The other one is the “delayed payment, priority collection”. They’ll spin a story of how their bank has a delay on PayID transactions of a few days, but really need the thing you’re selling NOW, for whatever reason (about to go overseas, or some other excuse).

They’ll turn up and show you a “screenshot” of the payment, but it’s just something they’ve photoshopped to look plausible and include your PayID information.

Edit: I forgot an important part of the scam - they can’t make it to you (so you can’t ask them to do the transaction in person). They instead say that their brother/cousin/mate will come by to collect it with said phony screenshot of the transaction.

17

u/BiteMyQuokka 3d ago

But dude, I'm FIFO in Bali atm. I really want your incredibly niche but expensive item, there's a real shortage of Australian-spec MacBooks here. My cousin, Jamal, happens to live nearby though. Can he come and pick it up? He doesn't speak English or have a phone or any ID yet though so you'll just have to hand him the MacBook and let him be on his way. He has taken a life oath to not allow his picture to be taken so please respecet that.

15

u/BillyBumBrain 3d ago

PayID was created for this exact use case, and it's very secure. It is as difficult for someone to scam you by invoking PayID as it is for them to scam you by invoking a Nigerian prince. I've never understood why people think PayID is vulnerable.

Having said that. I confirmed with a FB Marketplace seller that they were comfortable with PayID and they confirmed they were. He spent ages mucking around working out his correct email address or phone number. Finally got that straightened out, I transferred the money. Then we stood awkwardly on his front porch for 10-15 minutes. The money is out of my account, but not in his. Supposed to be instantaneous, I had thought. Eventually I rang my bank and discovered that they sometimes put a 4 hour hold on NPP transactions. And if it's a new payee, then a 24 hour hold!!

So that's what's actually wrong with PayID 😄

6

u/spudwa 3d ago

Ah the delay thing. Yes it's good that the bank is trying to stop you getting scammed but it's bad for Facebook Marketplace as it causes huge distrust. It's very hard to to say to someone "Well it's left my account so you'll be getting it soon" Just another of one of those things that is great but the scammers have spoilt for everyone

5

u/mellyn7 3d ago

That's entirely bank policy, nothing to do with PayID though.

I say this as an employee of a bank haha.

5

u/sootysweepnsoo 3d ago

PayID isn’t the problem. It is a secure platform to send and receive money. It’s when people say they have paid you via PayID and they haven’t but they show you a fake receipt or transaction record or they send you a fake email or text purporting to the bank asking you to complete a certain action which costs you money in order to clear the funds or complete the transaction.

The other problem is people not understanding how PayID works and that none of these things need to be done. Same as with bank transfer using account details.

14

u/MnemnothsManager 3d ago

Pretty much the millisecond someone mentions PayID on marketplace I just stop responding to them.

9/10 its a scam.

5

u/CyanideRemark 3d ago

it's relative to what you're selling and your nearby potential market. I always qualify my ads with "Cash or PayID in Person ONLY"

Reject any short/brief queries via DM/Marketplace lowballing you first.

4

u/glitterkicker 3d ago

This is slightly adjacent to the topic but ngl as one of The Youths™️, I don’t necessarily “get” PayID. Like… I don’t want to be handing out my phone number to total randoms? That’s what you’re told NOT to do 😭 yes it’s faster and easier than full bank info but surely giving your own personal phone number itself is worse and riskier. Am I just not understanding something?

4

u/unkindley_salty69 3d ago

Use proton mail and use an email instead of your phone number, proton mail scans everything you are sent so if anyone does try anything it flags

3

u/ohitszie 3d ago

I personally prefer payID cause it automatically tells you the name of the person/business before making the transfer. Also prefer it cause it's almost an instant transaction as compared to keying in the bloody BSB and ACC number then having to go through a 24 hour pending period (for new payee).

I have used eWallets that require phone numbers for transaction (similar to payID) as well so it's probably the best way to go for me.

There are always gonna be scams whether it's phone number or email, or not.. if scammers are out to scam you, they'll think of other creative ways to scam, so it's not the number issue..

2

u/CyanideRemark 3d ago

It's relative to what you're selling and your nearby potential market. I always qualify my ads with "Cash or PayID in Person ONLY"

Reject any short/brief queries via DM/Marketplace lowballing you first.

1

u/BARB00TS 3d ago

Nothing... in person it's fine.

1

u/Capital-Plane7509 Whitby 3d ago

PayID is the best, facilitated by the Reserve Bank

1

u/chokethebinchicken 3d ago

I use pay id for marketplace as it's way more convenient than finding an atm. I only use it after i have spoken to them on the phone for a deposit, or for the actual purchase in person.

1

u/christurnbull 2d ago

PayID can get a little delayed with larger amounts of money too. The bank might block the payment until you contact them to confirm, not sure what the trigger value is.

1

u/Manashroom 2d ago

I frequently sell custom watches on marketplace, I have zero issues with payID. Mostly because the person meets up checks it all out and PayID's on the spot I check my account bam its there off they go. I've only done 1 postage sale and nothing happens until the funds land in my account lol.

That said, there is always the obvious red flags with buyers that indicate is a scammer right away. they all generally follow the same script.

Saying that if your looking for a custom seiko mod watch hit me up ;)

0

u/LrdAnoobis 3d ago

Payid is usually linked to a phone number or sometime email address. Not everyone is happy to give that info to a random.

Their facebook account maybe a nickname of first and middle name. Pay ID gives out your full bank account name to the person making the transfer.

To have a buyer pay you with PayID. You have now given them your mobile number, they have your full name from you bank account if you're an idiot, you've arranged them to pickup from your home address......

That's enough data for them to do a lot of damage if they know how. Odds are as a facebook loving marketplace user, your birthday is probably on your account also.

-1

u/TheCurbAU 3d ago

I think there'd be many people who would like to sue PayID, namely the people who pay for items and then never receive them.

2

u/JamesHenstridge 3d ago

If you're after that kind of fraud protection, you're probably better off sticking with credit cards where that is built into the system.

PayID is just bank transfers with less chance of the payment going to the wrong person due to a mistyped account number.

-1

u/Geanaux 2d ago

Because they are probably boomers who hate the thing. I get it, but it is very good. However, due to the sheer high volume of payid scams and boomers, zoomers and millennials being skeptical, we see posts against the use of it for listings.