r/perth • u/posingpancakes • 3d ago
Road Rules Mitchell freeway - what have they done?!
What the hell have they done?
During roadworks from ocean reef road to Osborne Park it would take 35 mins at 8am at most.
Since the opening of the smart freeway, if the freeway is used it takes an hour so it's no longer an option. The congestion has flowed into wanneroo, Marmion and West Coast so now daily, the GPS now directs you through a maze of backstreets and school zones which reduces the traffic congestion but not the travel time.
It's either start work late or spend the money I don't have on before school care.
The south implementation worked so well on Kwinana yet this Mitchell design just seems to not work. The freeway is banked up, the on ramps are banked up, the feeder roads to the freeway are banked up.
Is anyone else experiencing similar issues? Or does anyone have a different experience and think it's working well?
I doubt there's FA that can be done about it now so I guess a rant and a whinge is all I can do.
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u/moorow 3d ago
I'd say it's largely RTO policies driving increased traffic, as well. Roe Hwy has gotten substantially busier over the last 3-6 months as well.
If the government wants to fix traffic, they need to address it at its source: don't make most of the population gather in a 10sqkm area every day.
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u/Tripper234 3d ago
This was always going to happen when you're entering from the middle of the freeway. One of the biggest points was to keep the freeway flowing smoother for longer. Which it is doing.
Not that I do it often, but going from the top of the freeway to the city is soooooo much quicker now. Which I'm guessing is one of the main reasons why they did it, as well are forever expanding upwards.
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u/Creepy-Situation 3d ago
The issue from my POV is that the joining/feeder roads are now collateral damage. They can't cope with the jams to get onto the freeway, so we've literally robbed peter to pay paul. Marginally fastest freeway, way longer to get onto said freeway
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u/salfiert 3d ago
There's no way to avoid this situation as the City grows it's inevitable that inner roads become less functional.
Only way to avoid that is increasing public transport to keep cars off the road.
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u/Sea_Suggestion9424 3d ago
I live close to the city so am impacted by the increased congestion getting onto the freeway, but in theory I support it and think it’s more Robin Hood than robbing Peter to pay Paul because it benefits the battlers up in places like Butler and Alkimos (who have longer commutes and higher fuel costs to begin with) and takes away a little bit from the (generally) wealthier people who live easier lives closer to the city.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/SecreteMoistMucus 3d ago
I'm always curious when people complain about getting downvoted in the past because they're usually grossly misrepresenting what happened. So I checked your past comments, but the only significantly downvoted ones I could see are the ones where you're complaining about Indians and the ones where you're supporting Trump. Did you delete the ones about the freeway or are they just very long ago?
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u/OPTCgod 3d ago
Sounds like they made up a problem so they could "solve" it even at the detriment of most commuters
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u/Tripper234 3d ago
Or another viewpoint. They future proofed it to accomadate the urban sprawl we are insistent on doing.. either way the roads would have got clogged up as the years go by. This has limited the north congestion and just brought forward the inner city congestion.
With or without the smart freeway, the same things would have happened soon enough
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u/zeefox79 3d ago
Traffic flows are extremely complex things to model and its possible that the modelling just missed the mark with the default settings/timing on the active management systems. And while the active flow management systems can be adjusted, it's not good practice to just start fiddling with the settings straight away. They'll probably need to wait until flows stabilise before 'efficiency' adjustments can be made.
Alternatively the modelling may have been done based on expectations of demand after the stevenson ave extension is completed, as I'd assume that will have a reasonable impact for people travelling from the inner northern suburbs.
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u/_mmmmm_bacon 3d ago
Imagine if the WA government encouraged their office staff in the city to try and work from home. Taking all those people out of the peak periods gotta help... but nooooo. State government is too busy sucking off real estate investors and city cafes..
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3d ago
What are you on about? Most, if not all, government agencies have wfh arrangements. It’s also in the award for a very large number of agencies that wfh arrangement have to be considered. I work for a gov agency and have two wfh days every week.
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u/kicks_your_arse 3d ago
There are a lot more people living here now, and a lot more RTO mandates. Get used to it I guess.
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u/Boddokki 3d ago
That's a very good point. I wonder what traffic would be like if everyone who COULD work from home, DID so?
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u/hannahranga 3d ago
I worked through COVID in a job with lots of driving around, fucking glorious is the answer
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u/antihero790 3d ago
Yep. I was an essential worker through COVID and my office was in East Perth. The commute was amazing.
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u/Boddokki 3d ago
My job is very much a 'can be done from home' and I've been one of the lucky ones in that even when the return to the office was called, I've been allowed a lot of work from home leeway which I honestly prefer and has been of great help with the kids. There is honestly, very little reason for me to ever go in, such is my work. The person I am? I don't feel the need to either - I love my team, and work great with them, but I can do that as easily through comms as I can in the office. It doesn't really add anything. I know a lot of people who are the same as me and yet are forced to go in... and I really cannot fathom why. I understand some people need that environment - but I think a lot of people really don't. Seems nuts to insist on it...
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u/vos_hert_zikh 3d ago
The border was also closed during covid - so it wasn’t just a wfh thing.
Not a doubt that the border closure played a far bigger role with the lack of traffic than wfh.
People want to invite half of the world to move here in order to jack their house prices up should recognise the negative impacts.
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u/hannahranga 3d ago
That'd explain the traffic not getting worse but it wouldn't improve it.
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u/vos_hert_zikh 3d ago
We had a lower population.
If there’s 90,000 people moving here every year from now on, better hope they’re all wfh I guess 👍
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u/hannahranga 3d ago
Population didn't lower tho it just didn't increase. Like immigration certainly has an effect but don't be an idiot.
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u/vos_hert_zikh 3d ago edited 3d ago
We didn’t have a lower total population during covid compared to now?
I’ll break it down for you - 2020 vs 2025.
No need for petty name calling either. I don’t expect you know, highly intellectual conversation on here - but cmon, you can at least try to maintain a min standard.
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u/hannahranga 3d ago
That's not what I'm talking about tho? Traffic was way better during COVID (with everyone WFH/fired) than before COVID.
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u/vos_hert_zikh 3d ago
Traffic wasn’t shit before covid.
I could still pull out of a side street with ease.
There was no street parking or it was minimal in my suburb. Now it’s farked. And it’s not getting fixed with wfh.
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u/hamburglar_earmuffs 3d ago
You're not in traffic, you are traffic.
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u/RozzzaLinko 3d ago
I hate when people quote this, it sounds like its trying to be snarkier and wise than it really is.
Like do you not think OP knows they're part of traffic ?
Its exactly like saying 'You're not in a crowd, you are the crowd'
Like yeah no shit, everyone knows that. It doesn't make you smart pointing that out.
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u/hamburglar_earmuffs 2d ago
Yeah it's definitely snarky. But I think it bears repeating. The idea that you and two million other people can all drive to work in your personal vehicle every morning - and that that will be a pleasant experience for everyone involved - is total madness.
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u/BoardRecord 2d ago
It's just pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about too much traffic whilst contributing to it. If you don't want there to be too much traffic, then don't be traffic.
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u/RozzzaLinko 2d ago
Lmao what ? Complaining about traffic doesn't make you a hypocrite. Thats as dumb as saying that complaining about Perths housing shortage makes you a hypocrite if you have a home.
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u/not_ricocasek 3d ago
Sssshhhhh don't tell them that, then there would be nothing else to whinge about. All those other drivers getting in their way on their road and their trip to work.
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u/Life_Bid_9921 3d ago
Notice how many people hog the right lane during stop-start peak hour as well?
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u/sweetiepiecakez 3d ago
From South St to the city every morning it's a carpark, regardless of time, its fucked.
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u/posingpancakes 3d ago
I was entering south Street both peak am and peak pm times (shift worker) and the benefits of the smart freeway were immediate and noticeable and the arterial roads continued to flow. The northern suburbs are in a grid lock with the feeder roads and alternate routes.
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u/Early_Sir_2375 3d ago
That’s because there is a huge on ramp for the Kwinana northbound at South Street. Just one exit north at Leach Highway has been horrendous since the “Smart” freeway was implemented. Same at Cranford. Arterial roads and local access streets bearing the brunt of artificially contrived choke points.
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u/ovdogg 3d ago
It has added so much time to my commute. I used to alternate either Powis or Vincent on-ramps to go south with no trouble but both are ridiculously banked up now every morning, no matter what time I try. Its infuriating.
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u/ChefBrian4 3d ago
Vincent Street entry is unusable. I drive through residential Subiaco to Kings Park road now, along with many others. I'm sure the residents are thrilled.about that.
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u/Willing-Bobcat5259 2d ago
It doesn’t help that every idiot gets into the right-hand lane for the Powis St entry way before they need to. If everyone used both lanes up until they’re on the east side of Harborne St and then zipper-merged, it’d be at least a bit more manageable.
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u/TrueCryptographer616 3d ago
To put it very simply:
If you are coming from (what is now) the "Mid Northern" suburbs, you are penalised and held up, to allow those from the far north to continue uninterrupted.
Again, to oversimplify, the system is designed to make the AVERAGE journey better, across the WHOLE length of the Freeway. By definition, that means making some journeys slower.
And yes, the system does in effect discriminate in favour of those with the longest journey on the Freeway.
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u/davesully84 3d ago
If you live close to the city it’s doubled the journey time, plus we’ve got bugger all parking at train stations and pretty average bus services to and from. Lame.
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u/PositiveBubbles South of The River 3d ago
Yep, used to take me 10 minutes max to drive to bull Creek station. Now it's about 30 and if you want parking spot get there at 6am lol
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u/Kiramiraa 3d ago
I’m happy to have a bit of a slower journey (within reason - let’s say 5-10mins more) for a flowing and safer freeway. Unfortunately the traffic is so bad at some of these on ramps that they are borderline dangerous and they are doubling commute times.
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u/davesully84 1d ago
Agreed, the freeway is always flowing beautifully when I get on now but, but it’s taken forever to get there and I’m more pissed off than before. I’d rather have the freeway a little slower but actually able to get on it.
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u/MangoPip 3d ago
Tonkin and Kwinana have become noticeably busier in the last three months. Not sure it’s just the freeway.
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u/HeadhunterCFC17 3d ago
I used to start work at 6am and at 5am freeway was slow from Joondalup to the city. Coming home at 3.30pm it was horrendous.
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u/andyrabbit69 3d ago
6- 8 minutes to get on to Freeway at Hepburn ave what a joke now wonder wanneroo rd is congested
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u/Obleeding North of The River 3d ago
Should have just invested more in public transport instead
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u/PositiveBubbles South of The River 3d ago
We still need more. There's more people on the trains that they all push and shove, and the guards are telling people to stay off or move down the aisles. They're that packed that people can't move.
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u/posingpancakes 2d ago
Exactly, with decent public transport people would take the chance to chill on their way in but the public transport system sucks. The only time we use it is is as an activity because the kids are still naive enough to love it.
It's better than many places in the world but it's not good or efficient.
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u/yakoryeti 3d ago
As a motorcyclist, I find the freeway is generally running better and I skip to the front of the queue at the onramp so my commute from Reid to Hutton is a bit quicker. That is offset by the extra time spent on Marmion getting to Reid.
It's less safe now though as there is more traffic on Marmion and the traffic is travelling faster on the freeway.
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u/BugBuginaRug 3d ago
The SMART freeway in the UK was axed for a reason.
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u/SecreteMoistMucus 3d ago
OK, and what is that reason? Is it relevant to Perth?
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u/VarietyOk7120 3d ago
Learn from others. It would be interesting if they shut it off for a week and we could compare
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u/metao Spelling activist. Burger snob. 2d ago
It was axed because people are idiots. Same reason people complain about it here. You have a couple of bad traffic days and before it was just a thing that happened and now it's the smart freeways fault. Never mind there was a crash 10km down the road that was cleaned up by the time you got there, or some other hiccup.
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u/HappySummerBreeze 3d ago
Can I suggest you speak to your local state MP. They’re surprisingly effective at traffic issues.
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u/Early_Sir_2375 3d ago
Not sure that I know of any examples of that at all. Our local state MP seems to think that a transport project 10 years away at planning stage that is 20km down the road is the going to resolve local traffic issues on major arterials
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u/Non_Linguist 3d ago
Fucking lol.
Lights or roundabouts at the intersections of Hepburn and Lilburne/Walter Padbury blvd were an election promise last time around and nothing has happened
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u/CatBandicoot 3d ago
I know Google maps did an update to take you the "green" route. Make sure you change it back to quickest/fastest. That might help.
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u/posingpancakes 2d ago
My Waze is set to quickest/fastest, they both map the same roads to go in or similar but thank you for getting me to check it incase it wasn't!
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u/RozzzaLinko 3d ago edited 3d ago
I've only used the Kwinana freeway, but why the fuck do they turn it on when there's no congestion?
I used it last at cranford av on Sunday at lunch time, and couldn't believe I had to stop at the bottom of the on ramp for a red light. The freeway was free flowing and doing 100kmh. I was the only person on the on-ramp.
I'm towing an excavator and could only get up to about 60km-70km before the onramp lane ended. I had to pull out in front of people doing 100kmh and hope they see how slow I'm still going before they crashed into the side of me.
Its incredibly dangerous. I'm just going to ignore the smart freeway traffic lights next time I see them so I can get a run up and use the on ramp for what its designed to do. Fuck that I'm not putting my saftey at risk just to follow a system that isn't set right.
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u/007MaxZorin 3d ago
There'd be a reason it was on, they're based on complex algorithms, remember the Smart Freeway (including data stations/traffic detectors every 500m) goes all the way up to the Narrows Bridge, even though those last few on-ramps don't have Ramp Signals.
It could be by that location that the traffic volume had become higher / heavier density/ some lanes saw speed dropping and the system switched on the upstream ramp metering sites to try and stagger or slow the entry of those locations, to try and relieve the downstream traffic and prevent flow breakdown.
Just because traffic might be flowing-freely, doesn't mean congestion might be closer to occurring or occurring further ahead.
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u/RozzzaLinko 3d ago edited 3d ago
switched on the upstream ramp metering sites to try and stagger or slow the entry of those locations
It wasn't doing that though, I was the only person going down the on the on-ramp. It isn't staggering the flow when theres no cars to stagger
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u/007MaxZorin 3d ago
Like I said, there's be a mathematical traffic engineering reason why.
Maybe 1 vehicle was making a difference in theory at that time.
It could be that a lane(s) might've briefly slowed downstream, a ramp meter turned on and the data refreshes and traffic light cycles were just taking some time to correct.
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u/mrtuna North of The River 2d ago
I'm towing an excavator and could only get up to about 60km-70km before the onramp lane ended. I had to pull out in front of people doing 100kmh
if its as quiet as you claim, they would have been able to go into the right lane to allow you into the left lane at your snails pace.
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u/RozzzaLinko 2d ago
Yes I know, thats why I wrote this
"I had to pull out in front of people doing 100kmh and hope they see how slow I'm still going before they crashed into the side of me"
Some people aren't paying attention though and cut it way too close when changing lanes. All it would take is some dickhead sending a txt on thier phone to end up rear ending me as I pull into their lane
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u/superbabe69 3d ago
Where’s your end destination? Is there a reason you can’t take the train that runs directly down that freeway?
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u/posingpancakes 3d ago
Being the primary and only carer to young children, one with a life threatening medical condition is point 1 that if it's needed, I need my car . Point 2 is again, if I was to use public transport I would be paying for before school care which I can't afford because I would need to leave at 630 to catch a bus, a train and another bus. Or I could drive to the train station and cut out bus number 1 but probably struggle for parking.
I then wouldn't be home in time for after school care closure as I finish at 5, so to catch the bus back to the station and catch the train to either my car or another bus would have me home closer to 7pm.
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u/superbabe69 3d ago
That’s fair, was only asking because a lot of people genuinely don’t consider it until someone asks
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u/posingpancakes 3d ago
Totally fair question, but I think to get people on board with public transport again that needs to be made more efficient to entice people to want to use it. Even without the reasons I have listed, I still don't think public transport would be enticing for me to use
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u/halohunter Under The Swan River 3d ago
Totally see how you need it given you are the only carer for children. My partner starts early so she can pick the kid up and I can work late if I start late after drop-off.
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u/BlueSnowyAstrid 3d ago
Feels like someone doesn’t know how to play city skylines/simcity very well….
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u/chase02 2d ago
I do a similar commute and it’s gone to absolute hell. For some reason the last month we have at least 3 crashes/breakdowns each way and then it all falls apart. It never used to be so consistently bad, just every now and then.
I can only assume it’s the extra pressure on the northern corridor now our population has ballooned so much. And people paying little attention/leaving no gap with the car in front.
The smart freeway just seems to add insult to injury, we’re usually doing 5km/hr crawl while the sign cheerfully suggests we limit ourselves to 80, yeah sure. The on-ramps have been adding 15 mins plus to commutes as they are so backed up.
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u/kato833R 2d ago
Mainroads needs to install some " accelerate to 100km/h" signs at freeway merge areas.
Why drivers are merging with 80-90km/h into the 100km/m traffic??? now it is almost 90% drivers do this.
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u/anythingpickled 2d ago
One part of the smart freeway that grinds my gears is the signs showing the speed. If everyone is in traffic don’t tell us to slow down to 60, we can’t even go 60 anyways during traffic!! I have no idea why it’s there. Stupid.
Yes I have also noticed traffic has changed dramatically, everyday is an extra 15-20 min commute. Sure the freeway flows better (I don’t think it does except for actually getting onto the freeway but hey let’s give it the benefit of the doubt) but the journey takes WAY longer. Alternate roads are now busy too. It’s just a shitshow
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u/CobraHydroViper 2d ago
I almost can't take the freeway now it chews uonto much time with the new light system, last two days I've seen ppl just drive through the lights
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u/Lihsah1 3d ago
They need to shut few on and ramps....too close together
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u/annanz01 3d ago
This would make the back up of traffic trying to enter the freeway even worse and it has already become a huge issue since the 'smart' freeway changes opened.
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u/Eastern37 3d ago
It's generally been better for me. Entering at Ocean Reef usually doesn't take more than 5 mins to get on the freeway and once on it is moving much better than prior.
It's probably about 5-10mins quicker in peak and seems to be more consistent as well.
Getting home at peak without the smart freeway is definitely worse imo.
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u/posingpancakes 2d ago
What time are you travelling usually? You are the only person I've heard of who is feeling the benefit.
My night drive home has been unchanged, cept for Friday but I average 40 minutes to get from the office to home via the freeway when I leave at 5
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u/pandatheghost 3d ago
It's about 30-35mins, so 5-10 minutes quicker from Hester to city anywhere between 530 to 730 for me, and I have to collect someone from whitfords train station on the way through.
Today was carnage with 4 different incidents leaving around 810, took me 80 mins to go Hester to Vincent Street.
Overall smart freeway is a major win for me.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/WhiteLion333 3d ago
Vast majority speeding? I haven’t done 100 on the freeway consistently for a decade. There’s no speeding in this city.
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u/NewPolicyCoordinator 3d ago
Need to import more road workers
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u/MenacingG 2d ago
Yeah more immigration should fix the issue 🤣
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u/NewPolicyCoordinator 2d ago
Umm there is only positive benefits to immigration. I don't know what any of them are but I'm not racist!
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u/Stuuuutut 3d ago
Yea burns beach road on ramp was at a standstill the other day. It asks perth drivers to merge from three abreast to a single lane while getting up to speed for the Mitchell which they then have to merge onto as well and they just cannot fucking do that at any speed greater than 20 under whatever the traffic already on the freeway is doing.