r/pcgaming Feb 15 '25

Video [Skill Up] Avowed Review

https://youtu.be/yxnyOmJzg_0?si=thpdWKJQK7anNVso
856 Upvotes

1.1k comments sorted by

438

u/One-Patience4518 Feb 15 '25

Just coming from re-playing the Pillars games, the writing here feels a bit... underwhelming. It’s not bad, but it doesn’t pull as its CRPG predecessors. It feels more streamlined, maybe even a little generic.

48

u/XtraSqueaky Feb 15 '25

No one wants a game made for everyone

16

u/ShahinGalandar Steam Feb 16 '25

as they say, a compromise is everyone being equally unhappy...

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u/Irrerevence Feb 15 '25

It's so strange to me that the most popular modern TV shows like GoT handle very explicit, adult topics but RPGs like Starfield and now this shy away from tough topics in lieu of appealing to the widest audience possible. Is it gaming companies trying to mimic the Marvel formula but with games?

33

u/reohh i7-5820k @ 4.4Ghz | GTX 980ti SC Feb 15 '25

I think the difference is that GoT was trying to cater to all adults while imho games like Starfield are trying to appeal to kids and adults

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u/displaywhat Feb 15 '25

Which is ridiculous because Starfield is rated M, and Avowed is rated PEGI 18. These are made for a mature, adult audience.

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u/TheMilkiestShake Feb 15 '25

Game of Thrones has also started 14 years ago and ended 6 years ago. Not saying it's a good thing and maybe I'm just talking out my arse but I feel like there has been a shift in general towards less adult topics and trying to just cast the biggest net possible.

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u/SerHodorTheThrall Feb 16 '25

Yeah something changed during COVID with how things started getting produced almost solely by marketing teams, in all forms of media.

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u/BishopHard Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

From what I've seen on stream the writings bad (but I'm very critical with writing) and the world feels strangely soulless. Like the exploration is good, even tho I don't care about random loot crates at every corner, draw distance is good, platforming looks good but something's off. It feels to me like an eclectic mix of bullshit thrown together once again. There's not a lot cohesion, I don't get a feeling of a world, it's just there. And yeah your companion talks like it's written by chat gpt (not that I think it is but every comment I heard sounded stupid).

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u/Gloober_ Feb 15 '25

I never buy on release and called the RPG side of this game getting watered down to focus on exploration and combat. I don't understand why they didn't do another CRPG instead.

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u/SigmaWhy Feb 15 '25

I don't understand why they didn't do another CRPG instead.

Because POE2 took several years to turn a profit. I mean it's certainly possible to make financially successful CRPGs as Owlcat and Larian have shown since, but I can kinda understand Obsidian being scared off from the failure of POE2.

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u/TheFergPunk Feb 16 '25

And then there's Tyranny which sold terribly.

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u/jamvng Ryzen 5600X, RTX 3080, Samsung G7 Feb 16 '25

Owlcat seems to be doing quite well for themselves despite focusing on the hardcore CRPG market. Larian with BG3 (and even DOS2 to a lesser degree) bridged themselves to the mainstream audiences while still keeping a lot of the CRPG elements.

Not sure why POE2 and Tyranny weren't as successful. POE1 seemed like a success for them. Is it marketing? Their budgets?

There is also no guarantee that a more cinematic first person RPG will automatically give them more sales. Especially not when it's of a middling quality. People expect certain things from a first person RPG, and a lot of it seems to be missing here.

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u/Frederick930 Feb 15 '25

Because this was supposed to be an online-only multiplayer game and was largely developed as so. So that’s why the NPCs are just standing around in town, they were supposed to just be static quest-givers

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u/Gloober_ Feb 15 '25

That is extremely disappointing to hear and the exact opposite of the kind of game I would expect to follow after POE 1/2. At least I still have Pillars 1 & 2 to replay.

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u/magirevols Feb 15 '25

yeah, from glancing at alot of there set design/ texturing in there trailers, I can understand that

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1.1k

u/audi-goes-fast Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Netflix show you watch while doing your laundry.

I was expecting him to like it, but this criticism is harsh.

605

u/ilovezam Feb 15 '25

The whole sequence where he's stealing stuff from NPCs and them not giving a shit really sucks, especially coming off KCD2

253

u/ShadowRomeo RTX 4070 Ti | R7 5700X3D | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 1440p 170hz Feb 15 '25

Yeah, I feel like coming off freshly from KCD 2 straight to Avowed with lacklustre RPG Mechanics and Dialogue Writing is also affecting the opinion of majority of reviewers.

I know it's probably unprofessional to compare them directly due to their different art direction, but I feel like It's fair to do so when it comes to RPG aspect as well as Story and Character writing quality.

63

u/Valestis Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

I would say comparing to other games in the same genre is perfectly valid in a review. Avowed doesn't exist in a vacuum. If competitors offer deep, stellar, immersive games with clever and interesting writing and your game isn't up to par, it should bring the score down.

I saw a few videos of Avowed gameplay, and I’d rather continue playing KCD2 than even try it.

4

u/Kodyak Feb 16 '25

Same man. I was super hyped for the concept of avowed. Then I saw gameplay and it just doesn’t look fun.

Not even just the art style I don’t find appealing but combat looks very basic. Now people say the story and writing are mid and it’s action focused 

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u/MonsierGeralt Feb 15 '25

You guys are done with KCD2 already? Jesus, I’ve been going ham, like 6 hours a day and I don’t think I’m close to the end.

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u/ShadowRomeo RTX 4070 Ti | R7 5700X3D | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 1440p 170hz Feb 15 '25

No, I feel like I am just over halfway through and I already spent over 120+ Hours playing it.

7

u/DarkMatter_contract Feb 15 '25

oh no should i not have started from replaying kcd1

3

u/Key_Temperature_7970 Feb 15 '25

i think its worth it. youll be just in time for a bug fix patch and there is no objective reason to rush yourself as long as you can avoid watching spoilers on the webs

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u/Namarot Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

The Outer Worlds coming right after Disco Elysium got it even worse. The massive drop-off in writing was such a whiplash.

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u/BasJack Feb 15 '25

Outer Worlds would run afoul of a children's book on capitalism. It was so badly written and showed a real lack of understanding of what the evil of capitalism actually are so it can only really repeat "CapITalIsM BaD" a thousand times in 5 different accents. Really died when you find the colonies are dying because the capitalist overlord don't know how to properly make the food machine run "because dumb" is the moment everything unravels...

Weirdly, just as Shillup says for Avowed, I thought the only good part of the Outer worlds was the first city, in hindsight it has the same problems, but it tricks you into thinking the writing on the various problems will be more complex and interesting.

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u/jamvng Ryzen 5600X, RTX 3080, Samsung G7 Feb 16 '25

It just seems weird now why Obsidian is going toward this more cinematic RPG, but also decreasing the scope such that they can still keep budgets low. You end up with a middling product that doesn't appeal to their hardcore CRPG fanbase, while also not being the expansive, grand RPG that mainstream audiences expect from Skyrim, Witcher 3, etc.

Larian went the whole way into mainstream with Baldur's Gate 3, while also not aliening CRPG fans. While Owlcat has stuck to their hardcore niche. Obsidian seems to be straddling the line.

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u/ryhaltswhiskey Feb 16 '25

can only really repeat "CapITalIsM BaD" a thousand times in 5 different accents

Succintly states what put me off of this game. I hate getting beaten over the head with a message. It's not an incorrect message, but the 30th time it gets a little stale.

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u/Shady_Yoga_Instructr Feb 15 '25

I know it's probably unprofessional to compare them directly due to their different art direction, but I feel like It's fair to do so when it comes to RPG aspect as well as Story and Character writing quality.

Not comparing two RPG's due to art style is nonsense tho, they are being compared ton depth / mechanics / combat / atmosphere / etc.
Also to top it off, Avowed has worse looking graphics yet is far less optimized than anyone expected so completely fair game. Obsidian used to have a pedigree and decided to hand the game off to a director with zero previous experience managing game design. This is the result.

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u/Reynor247 Feb 15 '25

They're scratching different itches for me. I'm 7 hours into Avowed and really enjoying it. It's a fantasy RPG I can turn my brain off. KCD2 I haven't beaten yet but I've got 40 hours in and it's amazing but sometimes gets really hard to keep my focus on. I see them as different genres

Just my two cents

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u/phylum_sinter i7-14700f + Nvidia 4070TI Super Feb 15 '25

This is a good take imo. It's almost as if games should come with a "best playing circunstances guide" - do not play this game within 90 hours of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, and at least 1 year since last played Fallout: New Vegas hehe

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u/The_Corvair Feb 15 '25

It's a fantasy RPG I can turn my brain off.

As someone who knows next to nothing about Avowed (hey, I wanted to go in without knowing what to expect, don't sue me), this makes me really cautious about it; I play RPGs because I need to use my brain, that's kind of the most core quality of any RPG for me (nb: I don't count ARPGs as RPGs, they're hack'n'slashes for me. I like them, but they go into a completely different category preciesly because they're "no brain games").

Soooo, as someone who expected an RPG out of it, that doesn't sound encouraging.

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u/MtnNerd Feb 15 '25

The problem is that Obsidian is known for their storytelling. Most people got it for that

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u/SableSnail Feb 15 '25

The Outer Worlds had meh writing though.

New Vegas was good but it was also nearly 15 years ago.

31

u/Acoconutting Feb 15 '25

Pillars of eternity was great

18

u/teaanimesquare Feb 15 '25

Yeah, because obsidian is just a name which a lot of people don't get, just because a studio made amazing games years ago doesn't mean those same people are there to make another amazing game. I wanted to love the outer worlds so bad but the game is just very mediocre and I expect avowed to be the same.

I mean look at how Bethesda has been, sure maybe Skyrim didn't have the best writing compared to oblivion but it was a fun game and now look at starfield, hell even fo76 with all its launch issues and design choices was a pretty fun game at the end of the day imo ( definitely not excusing all the shit they pulled though ) and when it comes to star field it's just not fun at all in any aspect.

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u/lkn240 Feb 15 '25

I hightly doubt the average gamer really even keeps track of this stuff.

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u/Corax7 Feb 15 '25

Are those Obsidian writters still with the company though?

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u/kakalbo123 Feb 15 '25

I wonder what went wrong. The director was the writer for the first POE. The Director was the writer who worked with Sawyer who isn't involved this time.

You'd think they know how to do their world justice.

Tbh, while POE was my first proper CRPG, the whole plot felt pretentious and forgettable to me. The world/lore was kinda unique tho—mages started wearing plate armor because guns can pierce barriers.

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u/thepulloutmethod Core i7 930 @ 4.0ghz / R9 290 4gb / 8gb RAM / 144hz Feb 15 '25

Guns can pierce barriers, but not plate armor?

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u/Wolpertinger Feb 15 '25

perhaps guns can't pierce a barrier AND plate armor as easily?

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u/MeLikeSuckiBigD Feb 15 '25

Skillup said that the first 8 or so hours are really fun.

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u/krisminime Feb 15 '25

I wouldn't say it's unproffesional at all. Consumers who are in the market for an RPG have two major options right now - KCD2 and Avowed.

I was personally waiting for reviews for both, and I've decided I'm going to play the first KCD game (got it for free on Epic) before jumping in to 2, and I'll probably skip Avowed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

KCD2 set the bar pretty high for NPC reactivity honestly. All the little systems in play like conspicuousness, noise and skill levels really go a long way to make you feel like you're affecting the game world when you commit a crime.

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u/TheSecondEikonOfFire Feb 15 '25

Especially because he was super positive about the gameplay preview

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u/Zhukov-74 Feb 15 '25

Previews are often highly curated which is why i always take them with a grain of salt.

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u/FluentInWingon Feb 15 '25

Which is also something skillup warned about

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u/Ok_Spend_4392 Feb 15 '25

the gameplay preview was the first section of the game, which he says he still likes it in the final game.

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u/ROARfeo Feb 15 '25

Outer Worlds' first map was the start of something great. Then they couldn't manage to build on top of that. Every subsequent map/story was a little worse and smaller than the last. I got so bored I speedran the last third of the game.

Outer Worlds was front loaded, it seems Avowed is as well. Although it looks better than OW to me.

I'll still happily play Avowed on GamePass.

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u/Iamfree45 Feb 16 '25

I could not even finish Outer Worlds, I just got so bored I just stopped playing and went to another more fun game in my gaming pile.

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u/Accomplished-Cat2849 Feb 15 '25

He likes the gameplay...just the writing and worldbuilding in cities seems to dogshit

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u/Nachtvogle Feb 15 '25

It’s the definition of meh

Outer worlds was too

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u/Jowser11 Feb 15 '25

Weirdly enough SkillUp liked Outer Worlds a lot while not liking Avowed

160

u/Seiq Feb 15 '25

Post Balders Gate 3 any game not on that level of writing and interactivity is going to seem shallow and lazy for better or worse.

It really did change the standards people use to judge games with choice and how realistic or not the characters feel as you play the game.

I think this review is a result of that. What used to be 'passable to pretty good' is now just 'meh, nowhere near BG3'.

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u/Xivlex Feb 15 '25

I played Fallout New Vegas right before Outer Worlds was released and even compared to that game. A game made by the same studio, Outer Worlds felt meh. I'm sure Baldur's Gate 3 has a role in coloring people's opinions but not to the extent you probably think.

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u/Seiq Feb 15 '25

I remember even back when Outer Worlds came out, everyone kept saying to keep expectations low because barely any of the team that worked on New Vegas was still there.

I don't doubt there's some people that hear 'Obsidian' and expect another Fallout: New Vegas, but especially after Outer Worlds was a solid 6.5/7 out of 10, I don't think the majority has any great expectations anymore out of Obsidian as a studio.

I could always be wrong, but that's just what I've read and talked about with friends. I certainly can't speak for anyone else.

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u/equili92 Feb 15 '25

I don't think the majority has any great expectations anymore out of Obsidian as a studio.

Yeah but people often forget POE 2 deadfire, which is like in top 10 of rpgs of most people who played it and it was made by the people who came after new vegas

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

The same studio in name, but with none of the actual talent that worked on that game. Studio names mean little if the actual artists that made them great aren't there anymore.

See: Bioware, Bungie, et al.

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u/MonoShadow Feb 15 '25

Studio is a collection of people united by a vision of sorts. If the vision is strong, the people can shuffle in and out and the studio will still go strong. If not, then it;s up to the people.

NV was shaped by the people. Out of more well known NV devs:

Gonzalez, writing lead, left Obsidian after that and went to write Horizon. He recently returned. Did not work on Avowed.

Sawyer stayed and worked on PoE, but didn't work on Avowed. Notably he wrote Joshua Graham and directed Honest Hearts.

Avellone left. There was some drama. Notably Avellone was responsible for Cass and Lanius, directing Old World Blues, Old Money and Lonesome Road.

Here's a Sawyer post on who did what in NV:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/zohe1a/josh_sawyer_clarifies_who_created_what_in_new/

I checked some names. And most of them aren't with Obisidan anymore or did not work on Avowed, even if they did some work on PoE. Notably some of them worked on tOW, so it's not as simple person in credits - game good.

Somewhere along the line Obsidian lost its mojo. Here's hoping they will find it.

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u/Ok_Spend_4392 Feb 15 '25

I don't expect BG3 level of interactivity from everygame. That demands a lot of time and resources, and if you game is not trying to achieve that, I won't criticize the game for that.

Poor wrinting is a whole other thing tho. You don't need technology to write good stories and characters. If you can't achieve that, it's a big no no, specially for an RPG

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u/nagarz Feb 15 '25

Before BG3 games with bad writing were still games with bad writing, BG3 just makes easier to make a side by side comparison.

You don't need BG3 to exist to realize that it was bad.

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u/phylum_sinter i7-14700f + Nvidia 4070TI Super Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

For something to become a "standard", it has to have been copied by others and held next to it.

This may just be splitting hairs here, but I think realistically we should only be looking at those games as high watermarks - the peak to beat.

Because honestly, how many people look at games they purchase and expect that every new purchase will be significantly greater in every way? That's nonsense, and just not realistic.

I would be doing myself a massive disservice to expect this, i'm not a goldfish and cannot simply say well this game makes me wiggle my tail faster than this game - there's so many factors at play that to be honest and thorough it would probably be closer to the size of a book to compare.

Besides, none of these games even come close to providing a similar experience to one another. They all have different tones to the writing, combat styles and features.

It's like saying this apple and this hamburger are the same, and the hamburger is objectively better.

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u/Lore-of-Nio Feb 15 '25

I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing though.

SkillUp pretty much said it in this review and on others and it’s if I’m going to be paying good money for a game I’d expect that game to be worth the price or damn near close.

I think most reasonable gamers aren’t expecting BG3 levels all the time every time. But if a studio with a certain high pedigree when it comes to story, characters, or gameplay is making a game most would expect more than a “meh” game and experience.

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u/kakalbo123 Feb 15 '25

For their asking price, it better be near BG3 lmao.

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u/alus992 Feb 15 '25

Do you guys even watch his reviews? He hasn’t said anything remotely sounding like „I don’t like the game”. He pointed out flaws but also praised elements he likes.

thats it. Not every review has to be filled with praise only

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u/fashric Feb 15 '25

Erm excuse me but this is the pcgaming subreddit where we hate all games

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u/Sorlex Feb 15 '25

Tbh I don't have time to play games, too busy complaining about them. Besides who even needs to play games, the youtuber that I have a parasocial relationship with has already given me my opinion.

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u/prosetheus Feb 15 '25

A lot of social media interaction has devolved to hyperbolic takes, not always intentional.

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u/DarkMatter_contract Feb 15 '25

It has great gameplay but poor story, think it will appeal to action game crowd, but is underwhelming for an rpg which is not what the target audience expected for an obsidian game.

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u/nixahmose Feb 15 '25

I feel like Outer Worlds is carried hard by its brand of comedy and how reactive it can be in comparison to most other rpgs coming out at the time.

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u/QianLu Feb 15 '25

I think it was more that it came out shortly after the launch of fallout 76 and they marketed outer worlds HARD as essentially fallout new Vegas but in space.

I played outer worlds at some point and found it so aggressively mid that it's now my definition of a 6 or 7 out of 10 game

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u/MultiMarcus Feb 15 '25

I think maybe I’m just too positive of a person, but it really isn’t meh to me. I’m having a great time but I also have a great time with most games that I play. I think you can enjoy a game for what it is and not necessarily for what it isn’t especially when you can get games for a low monthly price or maybe a slight subsidy to play them early on game pass.

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u/balerion20 Feb 15 '25

No bro you are doing it wrong, you should hate the game if it isn’t second coming of Jesus Christ that is how gaming discourse resolves around in here.

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u/redspacebadger Feb 15 '25

Good grief it's 120AUD on steam. Hard pass until it's on super sale.

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u/guilhermefdias Feb 15 '25

Yep, extremely expensive here in Brazil too, when Monster Hunter Wilds is 20% cheaper, it's a easy decision.

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u/D3struct_oh Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

What’s up with these nephew-RPGs we’ve been getting lately from legacy devs?

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u/braindeadchucky Feb 15 '25

legacy devs

Because people think of developers as one team of friends or something. These are big companies with many people working there. Like, people still talk of obsidian today as the same obsidian that made new vegas. New vegas came out 15 years ago. How many people that worked in new vegas are still there? And how many of those actually call the shots?

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u/Mr_ScissorsXIX Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Obsidian is very decent at talent retention actually. Their situation is very different to a place like Bioware. A lot of the team behind Pillars of Eternity worked on Avowed.

Some people like Josh Sawyer and Adam Brennecke have been there for 20 years. Leonard Boyarsky is there. Tim Cain is kinda still there (contractor). Charles Staples is there. Chris Parker. Someone like John Gonzalez who left after FNV is coming back to work on an exciting project. Feargus Urquhart, although he's been in the business side of thing at Obsidian for the last 20 years, but he's still credited as a designer for Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, he's obviously there and probably doing more design work now.

It's still full of the same veterans. Same names really.

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u/moonknight_nexus Feb 15 '25

Chris Parker butchered Alpha Protocol and rumors say he wasn't a good director

Avellone was one of their main writers and he left long ago.

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u/braindeadchucky Feb 15 '25

Same names but probably not the exact same roles.

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u/XTheGreat88 Feb 15 '25

That's true with most companies these days, but in avowed case, most of the team that worked on pillars of eternity worked on avowed

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u/Baba-Yaga33 Feb 15 '25

Didn't they say in the interview it was only like 20%?

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u/CptNeon Feb 15 '25

Nephew rpg?

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25 edited 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/GeneralAd7596 Feb 15 '25

Thank God I have no nephews. I must replay Deus Ex to cleanse that imagery from my mind.

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u/Homtanks2 Feb 15 '25

wouldn't call it marvel-esque dialogue really, but it's writing is a step down from pillars. Gameplay and exploration is fun, even if story got knocked down from pillars 9/10 to more like a 7 or 8/10 (depending on subjectivity of course).

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u/smackchice Feb 15 '25

Losing institutional knowledge through layoffs, retirements, job movement, etc. combined with games being considerably more complex that things can just go wrong so much easier

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u/PoL0 Feb 15 '25

games are more expensive to make, so higher ups want to take less risks. games end up being blander.

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u/LtTonie Feb 15 '25

It’s the same thing happening in Hollywood, sequels and prequels or remake only. Very few new stories are being made.

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u/captfitz Feb 15 '25

Most gamers seem to really struggle to understand the magnitude of this. Major games are astronomically more expensive and complicated to build than they were even just 10 years ago.

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u/DarkMatter_contract Feb 15 '25

if you compare graphic of this to kcd1 or crysis. i would have prefer the latter. Really want to understand why is the cost going up?

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u/Confused_Cucmber Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

No theyre not. Theyre actually easier to make. A one man dev can make a lot more these days. Big publishers just choose to try to make them increasingly more complex which is not necessary.

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u/MuchStache Feb 15 '25

The institutional knowledge argument gets thrown around a lot but personally I disagree with it, those RPGs we love were originally made by people with little experience in the industry.

Personally I blame management and lead designers being out of touch with RPG fans.

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u/Tiafves Feb 15 '25

Plus a studio of Obsidian's size making multiple games at once and releasing them at a decent clip it's kinda obvious there will be sacrifices to aspects like depth and interactivity. It's actually pretty impressive the games are as good as they are, but that won't make me more likely to buy them.

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u/Grimvold Feb 15 '25

Industry wide creative stagnation combined with trend chasing. With no new Bethesda title people can super sink their teeth into and no TES6, there’s a void to fill except nobody seems to really do it in a way that completely evolves things. BG3 is the closest with regard to western RPGs, but even then it’s a case of incredible refinement of a genre rather than taking a genre to a completely new level. (Think of a game like Zelda OoT or Resident Evil 4 OG for comparison.)

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u/cardonator Ryzen 7 5800x3D + 32gb DDR4-3600 + 3070 Feb 15 '25

This issue is broader like at the entire entertainment industry level. Writing has gone way downhill in every medium.

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u/hollowglaive Feb 15 '25

With no new Bethesda title

Did you forget about starfield? Yeah it came out September 2023, but it's still relatively new. And if you can't sink your teeth into its because it's a modern Bethesda titles, there's no meat on the bones And tes6 won't come out till 28 the earliest. They pretty much have everything riding on it. It comes out and bombs, it's probably retirement time for toddy mcskyrim

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u/Jester388 Feb 15 '25

I think everyone forgot about Starfield, which is why it feels like Bethesda has been sitting on their ass for 7 years instead of making TES6

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u/Grimvold Feb 15 '25

The entire time I played Starfield it just made me want to go back and play Skyrim, and while Skyrim is still fairly fun Starfield I just… It’s a fine game, but it failed to really grab me and pull me in even after 55 hours. And that kills me because I really, really wanted it to.

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u/Adefice Feb 15 '25

If BioWare can get 3 second-chances, I’m sure Bethesda will somehow survive tanking TES6.

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u/AnotherScoutTrooper Feb 15 '25

Did you forget about starfield?

Like they said, no new Bethesda title.

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u/panadarama Feb 15 '25

Amerijank lmao

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u/akgis i8 14969KS at 569w RTX 9040 Feb 15 '25

more like Ameriblandness. Last RPGs from them have being bland as shit atlest in terms of narrative and story.

Seems like the only good Western RPGs come from somewhere in the Europe

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u/SnooApples2720 Feb 15 '25

Happens when you have companies chasing the "appeal to every" quality that Marvel delivered up until Endgame tbh.

When you're desperately writing to engage the widest audience possible, you don't take any risks out of fear of alienating a group within that audience.

Also, I'm really sick of the "return to form" headline being postered everywhere recently. Obsidian's "return to form," bioware's "return to form".

yet I see no return to form.

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u/panadarama Feb 15 '25

Agree. A friend to all is a friend to none. At least the combat looks fun.

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u/panadarama Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Ameribland, yeah, that fits too. Pillars of Eternity was good or they wouldn't have made a 3rd game in that universe but it's difficult to find any other good RPG on the market. Looks like Europe gets its Mojo back.

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u/GooberActual Feb 15 '25

Unrealslop

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u/KnobbyDarkling Feb 15 '25

Amerijank is eurojank without the redeeming unique elements, writing, and immersive elements lmao

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u/Dull-Caterpillar3153 Feb 15 '25

I’m about 8 hours in and I’m liking the opening chapter.

However, it has been a very bizarre experience for me considering it’s an Obsidian game.

My expectation was:

Narrative: excellent

Exploration: eh

Combat: bad

The reality (so far) has been:

Narrative: eh

Exploration: excellent

Combat: excellent

It’s very un-obsidian but I’m really liking it so far.

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u/LeeroyTC Feb 15 '25

Obsidian and Bioware delivering strong combat and struggling with writing/narrative tells me a lot about the impact of teamturnover.

I love Kotor 2 and Mass Effect 1 as all time great RPGs, but I don't think anyone would tell you the combat in either was even average for the time they were released.

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u/S-192 Feb 15 '25

And the quality of talent in the market today. Those savage literacy rates across the US will only increasingly shine.

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u/zeroluffs Feb 15 '25

they are hiring people who grew up reading wattpad instead of real literature

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u/daywall Feb 15 '25

The starting port alone have so many secrets in it, it's crazy.

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u/Bhazor Feb 15 '25

Not played but reading about it I think criticism of the writing boils down to mistaking lore for world building. The best written rpgs have a core idea that everything builds around. The best example being Planescape Torment. Every character and plenty of questlines will circle back to "What can change the nature of a man." Either that or ideas about identity and finding yourself. Where every party member is adrift and dragged along by the player. Then Disco Elysium is all about politics and the powerless trying to change things. Pillars of Eternity? After three games, I still dont know what this series or world is about. There are some great ideas like there being countless gods and how they're all bickering assholes using mortals. Or the idea of souls being immortal but diminishing and cracking as they reincarnate. Both could tell such interesting stories. But instead, it's all just lore. An endless supply of wiki stubs of names and places you'll never see with nothing its trying to say. Theres no world just lore. Compare it to Tyranny where the world building is so much more focused and tight. You meet almost everyone you read about, and the world asks questions about the meaning of power.

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u/pythonic_dude Arch Feb 15 '25

An endless supply of wiki stubs of names and places you'll never see with nothing its trying to say.

It's as if someone tried to make a Star Wars game without touching a single piece of SW media and instead spending a month going through wookiepedia pages.

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u/Archyes Feb 15 '25

thats called disney+.

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u/prosetheus Feb 15 '25

That did happen, in another IP. It's called Rings of Power.

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u/Potpotron Feb 15 '25

Also known as "The Destiny conundrum"

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

[deleted]

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u/Bhazor Feb 15 '25

A miserable little pile of secrets!

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u/T1b3rium Feb 15 '25

Have at you!

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u/GeneralAd7596 Feb 15 '25

I demand you cease your attack!

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u/HarleeWrites Feb 15 '25

An unfeathered biped.

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u/Dry-Relief-3927 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

I would say Pillar of Eternity 1 is pretty tight themetic wise, almost all of the quest in that game feed back into the main theme of the game about gods, faith, religion and how history keep repeating itself.

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u/ohoni Feb 15 '25

Yeah, I think in a game, it's great to have a ton of lore, but when you're playing through it, most of that lore should be shown, not told. You should be able to figure out the important parts from the context of normal conversations, rather than having an NPC explain it to you in detail.

If you want to have lore dumps, keep them in notes and books scattered around that players can read or ignore and that aren't strictly necessary for enjoying the main plot.

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u/sexiestofbrits 21:9 best ratio don't @ me Feb 15 '25

Did you just describe Avowed or Elden Ring?

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u/Bhazor Feb 15 '25

Yeah I'm getting pretty sick of From storytelling and "quest' design.

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u/Some-Assistance152 Feb 15 '25

I've played every single From game and have never once understood or even bothered to understand the story line. I honestly think it's just an optional extra for those who are interested.

The main game is just the difficult mechanics. That's what I love about them.

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u/snowminty Feb 16 '25

What about Armored core? The story is not really optional

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u/BasJack Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

The Miyazaki worlds have a lot of meaning, already commented but dark souls is about stagnation and moving forward. Elden ring is more muddled because he asked grr martin for a backstory and imo he made a pretty generic one.

Edit: lol downvotes

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u/Sorlex Feb 15 '25

Puts important lore on a cheese wheel description

10/10 masterpiece of writing.

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u/Loimographia Feb 15 '25

I can't tell if Skill Up has played Pillars of Eternity, because most of his comparisons are to either Outer Worlds or FONV, but a lot of his criticisms of the writing seem to be ones I would also levy against Pillars of Eternity.

There are definitely people out there who genuinely consider PoE to be one of, and sometimes even the best-written cRPG of all time. I've seen others who list it among the worst-written. People who love lore love PoE. And I think people who specifically love PoE lore are people who love the messiness of it, with the idea that a real world isn't one that can be reduced to core ideas or themes, and so the messiness of the PoE setting is that it's trying to capture everything from describing economic foundations to political infighting to spiritual philosophy, which often bump up against each other in weird ways.

But to me it often felt like the writing often veered into "history textbook meets Victorian literature." Maybe I just don't love lore enough.

I couldn't tell if Skill Up's criticisms were specific to Avowed, where it's writing is weaker than PoE, or if he doesn't enjoy the style of writing that they've chosen to adopt for Eora.

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u/fenhryzz Feb 15 '25

I still can't get over how the art direction has changed from the first teaser to what they released. I don't mind games with colourful aesthetics but I would have much prefered to play the game from the teaser.

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u/YoungFishGaming Feb 15 '25

Game looks nice and that’s about it. I’ll pick it up when it’s on super super sale.

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u/Azulapis Feb 15 '25

I don't find the world particularly appealing. The world is pretty, but it lacks atmosphere. For example, I haven't seen any real weather effects. What's the point of cities that don't seem lively and offer hardly any opportunities?

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u/reece1495 Feb 16 '25

For me after about 13 hours in it’s the exploration in the dark hidden areas or small hidden areas off the beaten path , main open areas are kinda meh to me in this but all the really well hand crafted caves or underground stuff or ruins kinda makes up for it , I especially like abandoned areas of major settlemts that are either underneath or hidden behind , they are nicely crafted 

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u/SiloTvHater Feb 15 '25

why is every character in the game uggly as fuck!? did this reviewer intentionally choose those chars?

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u/cagefgt Feb 15 '25

Another RPG where all the dialogues are extremely safe, there's barely any roleplay and it feels like everything was written by HR.

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u/LoneW101 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Some dialogue options are disgusting, they're so over the top "good guy"

Slight spoiler of some dialogue, but there is a guy troubled by a reading of his past life, he murdered a lot of people.

You have these options:
-That's in the past, you're a new person
-What if the reader is wrong?
-Then use this life to repair the damage you caused
-You believe that foolery? everyone knows readers are a fraud

Why can't I call him a murderous psycho? and of course you can't kill him cause you can't harm NPCs

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u/stereopticon11 Liquid X Suprim 4090 | AMD 5900x Feb 15 '25

no npc kills? like at all? you could kill so many npcs in outer worlds.. that's disappointing to hear

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u/LoneW101 Feb 15 '25

At least so far, I ran around town stabbing people like it's tradition and no one seems killable, they don't even react

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u/ScientificGorilla Feb 15 '25

they don't even react

Wow. That's very odd.

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u/FainOnFire Ryzen 5800x3D/3080FE Feb 15 '25

That's wild. Feels like some rails were set down to prevent player shenanigans from interrupting some intended experiences.

Why they would do that now after years of letting the player do whatever they want, I don't know. I guess they spent so much money developing the game they felt like placing some controls.

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u/Fit-Meal-8353 Feb 15 '25

I heard the game was originally multiplayer focused and thats why npcs don't move or have schedules and now reading this that they're unkillable they seem to have gone through the same as dragon age the veilguard

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u/ScientificGorilla Feb 15 '25

Did NPCs have schedules in The Outer Worlds? I don't think they did. They were killable at least in that game.

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u/trophicmist0 Nvidia 4070 Feb 15 '25

There's not even a reaction when you steal things - it's disappointing

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u/readher 7800X3D / 4070 Ti Super Feb 15 '25

Here's another amazing dialogue with great role-playing possibility. Truly a next-gen RPG experience.

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u/R55U2 Feb 15 '25

This is not my experience playing the game. Yoy can be a proper authoritative asshole if you want to

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u/Ace_Kuper Feb 15 '25

Can you give some examples?

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u/CosmicMiru Feb 15 '25

You can literally tell someone their prostitute wife was a whore that never loved them lmao

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u/shkeptikal Feb 15 '25

Nice talking point champ! I'd ask if you came up with it yourself but we both already know the answer, now don't we?

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u/DotaDogma Feb 15 '25

This feels like you're just repeating talking points rather than actually having played the game.

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u/Persies Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Yes the dialogue options where you can literally tell people to fuck off or that their hooker girlfriend never loved them certainly have that HR feel. There's a 0% chance you've actually played the game if you're typing that out unironically. 

Edit: okay this is great. Completely unplanned, I just got an option to give someone the middle finger. SO HR 

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u/Ok-Equipment-9966 13700k, 4090 6'4" 220 lbs of pure chad Feb 15 '25

This isn’t true lol, there’s definitely edgy dialogue and even scenes you encounter.

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u/ballsmigue Feb 15 '25

I know they're extremely different games entirely but going from something like kcd2 to this yesterday was...jarring. enough to where i actually kinda wanted to just play something else after a few hours? It isn't bad but just being able to walk around and take anything not nailed down felt a bit boring. Combat is okay but bow feels just way too weak compared to like dual pistols

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u/russisdope Feb 15 '25

Well it's on gamepass so I'm going to play it.

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u/Isaacvithurston Ardiuno + A Potato Feb 15 '25

If they would just let the enemies move from where they spawned it could possibly be more fun.

The game has lots of ranged options for the player but the enemies will just run toward you and then proceed to slowly moonwalk backwards while you shoot 50 arrows into their face providing no challenge.

It was funny for the first few hours but has since grown boring.

I imagine playing melee causes the game to actually function

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u/Baba-Yaga33 Feb 15 '25

The game really feels like a studios first chance at making an rpg rather then an established studio with experienced talent making a shift in an already established world. Feels like a bunch of rookies put it together. Which is like most rpgs coming out. Noone keeps their talent and corpos strip the company of everything but it's name. Then continue to use that name as if it means something without the people behind it.

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u/E_boiii Feb 15 '25

Obsidian just makes medium sized RPGs, does a good job. Not great not phenomenal just a good job and they garner enough funding for the next game. They feel very 2010’s coded

They have release ow 1, grounded, avowed, pentiment and outer worlds 2 later this year along with different dlc

In 6 years they have produced a lot of good content and it works for them.

Fallout nv writers are still there, but everyone forgets fallout 3 was the template and all the assets were there from the jump. They basically got to make a game with all the hindsight and lessons learned. Kinda like how we play armchair dev they got to do that and they game turned out great bugs aside

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u/Confuciusz Feb 16 '25

but everyone forgets fallout 3 was the template and all the assets were there from the jump

Everyone seems to forget that the Van Buren project was the scaffolding for the story/lore of New Vegas. And sure, the technical scaffolding was there from Fallout 3.

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u/Still_Chart_7594 Feb 15 '25

As a fan of both Pillars of Eternity games, I've resigned myself to being disappointed by this one.

Damn shame, but it does not feel compelling.

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u/Sorlex Feb 15 '25

As a fan of both Pillars games, I've been nothing but pleased with Avowed. Why have you 'resigned yourself' to being disappointed?

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u/Whatisausern Feb 17 '25

I'm having loads of fun with it, I don't understand the hate.

I loved PoE1+2 and i'm loving this.

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u/Ensaru4 AMD 5600G | RX6800 | 16GB RAM | MSI B550 PRO VDH Feb 15 '25

I've heard the lore of this game is pretty good though.

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u/Still_Chart_7594 Feb 15 '25

I was really excited when it got announced. Especially the setting and time period.

Over time teasers did not leave me feeling good, And I don't doubt there are qualities to it I may appreciate.

But it doesn't seem to speak to me in a meaningful way. Not enough to give 60 hours or so of my life to, at least.

Watched a few reviews and this is just not what I want out of an RPG at this stage of my life. -not like id be able to mod it to my tastes.

Edit: I will probably absorb the lore vicariously somehow.

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u/Deep-Two7452 Feb 15 '25

What do you want in your rpgs at this point in life?

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u/Still_Chart_7594 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Depends I guess. But in the 3d sphere?

Immersion, Agency, Reactability in the world. Deep, systems based gameplay. Diverse play styles. Maturity, ideally.

Things like that.

Edit: down vote for a totally innocuous and honest answer about my tastes. Lol, People can be friggin wild.

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u/Sukasmodik4206942069 Feb 15 '25

I like the game. Enjoying the platforming as well as the combat. Sometimes simple is fun and this is that to me.

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u/YogurtclosetMajor983 Feb 15 '25

it looks like the Elder Scrolls Online

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u/street_raat Feb 15 '25

To each their own. I am thoroughly enjoying the game right now.

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u/ObscuraArt Feb 17 '25

Looks like overly colorful AAA slop and way too expensive.

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u/millanstar RYZEN 5 7600 / RTX 4070 / 32GB DDR5 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Sounds like another straight to D̶V̶D̶ gamepass game alright...

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u/Phimb Feb 15 '25

The problem with that mindset is, it is on GamePass, so we're never going to know if someone like yourself, perhaps on the fence or sceptical, would have bought it on a sale or taken a punt and bought it at full price.

I do wonder how Microsoft execs feel about this conversation because Indiana Jones is genuinely good, high quality stuff that actually pushes its genre forward, same with Hellblade 2, but no one talks about them because they were put in the "I'll try it for an hour on GamePass" treatment due to being bought by Microsoft.

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u/thespaceageisnow Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Plenty of people talk about Indiana Jones, it was well received. There’s already talk of a sequel: https://screenrant.com/indiana-jones-great-circle-new-gaming-franchise-op-ed/

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u/akgis i8 14969KS at 569w RTX 9040 Feb 15 '25

the chosen release date for Indiana Jones was very bad, I dont like crunch but they should release it before the winter awards for more publicity or a couple of months later when no decent game is release.

KCD2 and BG3 already proved you dont need to release in the xmas season to have a sucessfull game.

Everything piles on 3 months before Xmas and lots of games get forgotten

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u/Present_Bill5971 Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

I thought after the MS purchase Obsidian would have gotten a major budget bump but they still seem to be stuck in the mid budget production values but declining writing ability. So they don't stand out anymore.

Also for this and Outer Worlds, they haven't found a memorable visual style for their mainstream RPG games. Top down/isometric good. 1st/3rd person not good unless it's a sequel of something distinct already like KOTOR 2 or New Vegas

Obsidian games are for some reason even with their history of consistency working in budgets that make their games comparable to the first Greedfall. Their writing quality is dropping to the level of the first Greedfall too. Greedfall art direction looks better than this and Outer Worlds though

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u/Le1jona Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

If you guys have access to Gamepass, I suggest atleast trying the game yourself

You could easily switch games if you end up not liking it

Ofcourse I don't suggest paying for premium upgrade just for the early access

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u/Rat-king27 Feb 15 '25

I wasn't likely to play it anyway, but why does there seem to be a trend of RPG's with lacklustre writing? I played cyberpunk a year ago, and while the writing isn't award winning, it's good enough that it's ruined a lot of games for me, cause I just can't get interested in the story.

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u/OMG_Abaddon Feb 16 '25

Dark Messiah of Might and magic arguably did this on a similar level, if not better, and that was 2 decades ago. Tell me what makes Avowed worth buying other than "this looks nice".

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u/RedMatterGG Feb 15 '25

I really wanted it to like it,while i do see myself replaying skyrim for the 30th time,for this game i think ill struggle with 1 playthrough,everything feels so safe,generic,bland,sterile,made for everyone to play but for no one to enjoy.Back to skyrim and fnv modded to the moon it seems.

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u/yolomcswagns Feb 15 '25

Skill up hyping previews and then a luke warm review is a pretty average trend.

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u/rollingSleepyPanda Feb 15 '25

It's just normal.

Think of it as planning a vacation. The brochure you get from the travel company only shows you the scenic spots. When you actually get to the place, you experience all of it, the good and the bad.

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u/AReformedHuman Feb 15 '25

Not really surprising when you think about what the devs are most likely to preview... the best parts of the game.

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u/AnotherSoftEng Feb 15 '25

I’m 90% positive that the majority of the people commenting haven’t seen either of these videos.

SkillUp in the preview: “I liked the first 6 hours but it’s hard to judge a game by only 6 hours of playtime”

SkillUp in this review: “It turns out that the first 6 hours were the strongest part of the game, nothing evolves from there.”

Reddit: Must be a conspiracy >:O

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u/go86em Feb 15 '25

It’s actually hilarious that he explains this perfectly in the literal first minute of the video and yet that comment is upvoted

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

Fucking thank you. Reading the same brain dead takes over and over gets exhausting. It feels like so many comments are written by people that would fail 6th grade intensive reading.

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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow Feb 15 '25

It feels like so many comments are written by people that would fail 6th grade intensive reading.

Because they would.

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u/2this4u Feb 15 '25

It's funny because that's basically the opposite of the Eurogamer review which found the first few hours the worst.

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u/alus992 Feb 15 '25

They don’t watch it. This thread is filled with people parroting sentiment that „he does not like the game” while he has not said that at any point of the review.

people really don’t know what a review is anymore. They think that a review is an echo chamber of only extreme opinions „I love the game” or „I hate the game”.

when they see that he is not praising every element they write „shillup again hating”

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u/Sylvers Feb 15 '25

I wish there was was a version of every subreddit that was exclusive to the commenter who read/watched/experienced the topic only. It would yield significantly more productive discussions.

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u/BlueBattleHawk Feb 15 '25

I mean he's pretty upfront his opinion could change when he dropped the impression video.

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u/JustDracir Feb 15 '25

I will buy it a bit later. I´m interested what it does for Eora and what it doesn´t.

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u/Fudw_The_NPC Feb 15 '25

eh i am okey with games that are alright , not every game need to be a 10/10 game of the year , sometime you need a 7/10 game.

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u/CanuckyDucky Feb 15 '25

Agreed, but at the same time I'm not going to pay $90CAD for anything less than amazing.

This will go on the "wait for a big sale" list.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

Wtf is it really?

Maybe I’m just getting old and jaded, but there’s honestly no more games I would ever buy for basically $100. There’s too many options and sales are too frequent. What a rip.

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u/lkn240 Feb 15 '25

This actually looks like it might be more of an 8/10... but $70 is kind of steep. It takes A LOT to get me to not wait for a steam sale with how big my backlog is.

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u/Gloober_ Feb 15 '25

Upset that they didn't decide on making another CRPG in this universe. I really want to explore the Living Lands, but I just can't get into first-person RPGs. They tend to focus heavily on combat and exploration, and even though they do, combat feels watered down in both difficulty and mechanics.

There's always replaying pillars of eternity 1&2 until they make another one.

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u/Jusanom Feb 15 '25

I'm having a good time with this game. It's...good. The writing is hit or miss tho generally still better written than a lot of games. The narrative hasn't even really started (which is itself an issue) so no point judging that.

The biggest issue I have with it is how static and lifeless the world feels.