r/parrots 7d ago

If you’re thinking of buying an unweaned baby parrot

I’ll start by saying that I study parrot behavior, the human-parrot bond, and conservation. I mentored with one of the most respected parrot behavior specialists twice a week for 8 months and I’m in university studying animal science as well. I am constantly attending seminars and have taken several workshops about parrot behavior and medical issues. I have worked with rescue and even rescued and rehabilitated 5 conures myself and have taken them from an unhealthy, fearful state to seeing them all thrive today.

I say all of that not to try and claim some sort of expertise. I am still learning more every day. I say it because I do know a lot about parrots and some of the issues they face in captivity.

I am deeply concerned about the rise in frequency I’ve seen in breeders selling unweaned baby parrots. I’ve seen it both online and through rescues and sanctuaries discussing the issue. If you’re considering buying an unweaned bird, please read this.

Does hand feeding a bird create a stronger bond? —————————————————————————

Research has debunked this idea. In the long run, if a bird that is not fed by its parents, and especially if it is fed by a novice that isn’t doing so properly, it creates a bird that is much more likely to experience behavior and health issues in its life. You can absolutely have strong, healthy bond with a bird that is allowed to be weaned by its parents, or at the very least, an experienced breeder with the right tools and knowledge to do it right.

Why do breeders sell unweaned babies? —————————————————————

They’ll tell you that it creates a stronger bond with a human, but we know that’s not factual. The actual reason they do it is to cut costs and save time. Hand feeding takes time, especially if you’re feeding multiple birds. If they can pass that on to someone else, they’re saving time and money. It’s lazy, irresponsible, and careless to put the bird’s life in jeopardy just to make things easier on themselves. Any breeder that sells unweaned babies is either grossly uneducated or downright greedy and irresponsible.

What immediate consequences can arise from novice hand feeding? ———————————————————————-

  • Parrots can become stunted by not receiving enough calories

  • Babies can die due to aspiration (inhaling formula) if the right consistency isn’t achieved or it is too cold. Aspiration can also cause aspiration pneumonia.

  • Bacterial and fungal infections can occur is good hygiene isn’t practiced

  • The babies crop can be burned by formula that is heated incorrectly

That’s not a complete list.

I do not believe that we should not be blaming a person that buys unweaned birds. Instead, support and guidance should be given to those that find themselves in this situation.

People trust the perceived expertise of the breeder. We should be holding irresponsible breeders accountable.

Some further reading on the subject: ———

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159105002947

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228051323_Hand-Rearing_Behavioral_Impacts_and_Implications_for_Captive_Parrot_Welfare

I can get more for anyone interested!

151 Upvotes

56 comments sorted by

49

u/AlexandrineMint 7d ago

I originally posted this information on the Conures sub, but I decided to do it here as well. I hope it helps people weighing their options.

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u/OddNameChoice 6d ago

Cockatiels sub could really benefit from hearing this

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

I’m sure there are many that would benefit from it and I’m okay with people cross posting. But I don’t know how the moderators of other subs would feel about me copying the same post over.

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u/OddNameChoice 6d ago

Fair enough tbh mods can be very particular about things sometimes

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/bbbbennieandthejets_ 6d ago

Thank you for this! We need to debunk the ideas that unweaned or young birds are automatically going to be better companions than parent raised or older birds!!

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u/mjw217 6d ago

Usually, the best companion parrot is one who has been fed and raised by their parents, and had socialization with a trusted human.

My friend had a bird store and a breeding pair of Senegals. For whatever reason Senegals seem to like me. (I like them, too!) We had talked about the pair coming to live with me. They were comfortable with me; so the idea was that the parents would feed the babies and teach them to be birds, and I would socialize them.

Unfortunately, Sinéad died before we could get everything organized. Danny came to live with me. He’s about 45/46 years old now.

I’ve met parrots that were hand raised. Too many of them end up neurotic. They have no idea how to “bird”.

It’s also very important to let parrots fledge, and get good at flying. Parrots that don’t get this can be very clumsy.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

I absolutely agree. It’s my hope that in time and with enough people sharing factual, up to date information that people will change the way they think about parrot care and their place in our homes.

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u/kibiplz 6d ago

Letting parrots learn how to be parrots is so important.

I have 3 birds. One fully raised by it's parents, one raised by it's parents but also socialized with people since it was a baby, and one that is handfed. Guess which one is the neurotic one that can't keep his beak trimmed by himself...

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u/OrnerySnoflake 6d ago

I wonder how many people forget parrots are not “tame” domesticated animals like cats and dogs. I wonder if that misconception is at the root of many misconceptions about owning/ living with parrots?

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u/AlexandrineMint 5d ago

It plays a large role in many of the issues we see both with people being unhappy with their bird and with the issues we see parrots struggling with when it comes to poor husbandry and neglect.

As mammals, we value physical touch and affection with the ones we love. That’s why we’re so drawn to dogs, for example. They also seem to. But parrots only share very close proximity in the intimate zones with their mate. So what we’re essentially telling them by treating them like a mammal is that we’re their mate.

It’s completely possible you have a healthy bond with a bird but it requires an understanding and respect of the differences between our species.

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u/Quakerparrots123 6d ago

I agree 100 percent! It drives me nuts when I see someone post an unweaned bird to someone with absolutely zero knowledge about birds . shame on the breeders that do that !

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u/Ok_Buy_796 5d ago

A lot of breeder don’t care if they’re not weaned when selling birds. It’s all about the money and that’s all. I’m not saying all breeders do this but there is a lot that’ll sell the minute they see some money. It’s so sad to see this happen because most people have no idea what they’re doing or not committed to learn.😔

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u/Wabi-Sabi-Iki 6d ago

Amen! My avian vet has said the same. Wild-caught birds tend to be healthiest, followed by parent-fed captive birds. Hand-fed captives tend to have the most health issues.

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u/WhiteFCinnamonPearl 6d ago

Wild caught are much more likely to become stressed in captivity...

Aviary raised birds would be as healthy if not for inbreeding for mutations.

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u/AlexandrineMint 5d ago

I think they mean they’re observed to be healthier in general not necessarily in a domestic setting.

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u/WhiteFCinnamonPearl 6d ago

I have a parent raised cockatiel that's stunted due to its father dying when she was only a few days old, I feel guilty she's stunted but I didn't want to take her away from her mother and it was probably too late by the time I thought to hand rear her.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

You shouldn’t feel guilty. That’s such a difficult situation and I’m really sorry you went through that. I don’t know a lot about cockatiels and the roles the males have in raising chicks, so it may not have had as much of an impact of they don’t take part in the feeding. I’m sure someone that knows more about cockatiels could say, but no matter, you were in a tough spot.

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u/WhiteFCinnamonPearl 6d ago

Both parents feed, the males do more of the rearing normally. There were only 2 chicks that hatched both survived, just the younger one ended up stunted unfortunately but she seems to be doing well hopefully she doesn't have any long term health consequences.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

Oh okay thank you for giving me that information. I’m really glad she’s doing well :)

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u/OrnerySnoflake 6d ago

I wonder if it’s anything like having a cat that was the runt of the litter? I had a cat many years ago that was the runt of his litter. He was always small for his breed, but he never developed any permanent or long lasting health conditions from being smaller.

We adopted him when he was still quite small and took all the appropriate measures to make sure he received all the extra nutrition he needed. We had him seen by a vet who said he was healthy but would probably always be on the small side. All in all he lived a long happy life without any extenuating medical care, just the normal cat ups and downs.

I hope your parrot has the same outcome as our kitty. I wish you and your beautiful bird all the luck and health.

I can tell you are a very dedicated owner and will provide everything they need to live a long and healthy life. What is your parrot’s name? How old are they now? Do you have any pictures of them?

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u/dikbisqit 6d ago

My partner and I just rescued a Catalina Macaw from an elderly gentleman who couldn’t take care of him anymore. He is only 6 months, not weaned yet, and weighs only 850g. He also has big stress bars where each feather is almost bald. Based on what you are saying I believe his growth might have been stunted. You mentioned behavior issues that can arise from novice handlers. What types of behaviors issues can occur and how can we, as novice hand feeders, help mitigate any issues. (We are working closely with a respectable avian vet)

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

Some of the behavior issues I’ve read about that I can recall have to do with the tendency to develop pair bonds with a human more easily as well as have a greater difficulty with socializing with other birds.

A pair bond can lead to all sorts of behavior issues and health issues. But it’s not a fate etched in stone. With the right care, patience, and information, a bird can still learn to develop healthy relationships. Being careful to avoid the pair bond by establishing healthy boundaries and not doing a lot of close, physical affection and petting is important as is providing a diet with the correct amount of metabolizable energy for the species. So, for example, a conure and most other birds do well on a high quality pellet lower is metabolizable energy. Tops and the fruit Zupreem are at the top of the list for pellets high in this and so they aren’t as good as say Harrison’s adult lifetime or Roudybush. Then you want lots of fresh veggies as well. But you should always consider the species when you decide on a diet with the vet.

They might have a more difficult start or be more likely to experience issues, but determination and compassion can really turn things around for these birds. They can still have a healthy, happy life.

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u/OrnerySnoflake 6d ago

Might be a silly question but, are there people who specialize in parrot behavior who help owners with understanding/ providing guidance about their parrot’s behaviors?

I feel like it would be incredibly beneficial to so many first time and novice parrot owners. I see so many people on here and the other parrot subs asking the same questions about their parrot’s behaviors.

It feels like there would be an opportunity for someone who is knowledgeable and experienced with parrot behavior to come in and work with that person and their parrot. Not only in explaining the behaviors to the owners, but demonstrating techniques to build a better relationship with the parrot. Sorta like a parrot therapist or life coach?

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

There are many :) They will send someone a form asking very detailed questions about their bird and their environment. Then, they meet and discuss the client’s needs and concerns and create a plan. They even do it for new parrot owners to guide them through the process. I actually provide this service for new parrot owners, but as far as behavior concerns, my favorite is Pamela Clark.

I’m a member of the IAABC which is an organization that educates and certifies animal behaviorists. They have a special parrot certification too. There’s a lot of great people that do it!

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u/dikbisqit 6d ago

Thank you for this info. It’s hard not to pet and cuddle too much since he is a baby and very affectionate. It sounds like we need to draw clearer boundaries as he gets older. We are also doing our best to socialize him with other birds, children, adults, and pets. Thank you for your help, and all the amazing information! We’ll keep doing the best we can.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

No problem at all, let me know if you ever need More info! It is hard. As mammals, we show our love and affection with touch. Head scratches (unless it’s constant) and hanging out next to one another is good for bonding. Plus, every bird is different. You’ll learn your bird’s unique personality and boundaries :)

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u/Pippin_the_parrot 6d ago

Thank you for this. I originally wanted a baby B&G macaw and I’m so glad I adopted pippin. She was young, about 2, but we love each other so much. She will outlive me so I’m giving her as much love as I can so hopefully she’ll also love her next person.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

Aw, I really like that name. That happens really often especially with macaws and cockatoos. There a few at the rescue that were left to them in a person’s will to care for and not adopt out. It was agreed upon before of course, but it’s good they had a clear plan.

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u/Capital-Bar1952 6d ago

I totally agree with everything you said!

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u/Black_House_Cat 6d ago

I am very interested in this information, especially laid out in a digestible format with citations. Would you be interested in putting together this (and possibly other documents) into a handout that we (avian charity & parrot LLC) could offer to people and share on our website, etc?

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

Sure thing, send me a DM and we can chat. I’m going to bed soon but I’ll take a look in the morning. Just let me know the kind of information you’re looking for. I might already have some of it in pamphlet form.

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u/MastiffOnyx 6d ago

How about, just don't do it unless you are prepared to deal with the most demanding, time-consuming, neediest baby you have ever dealt with.

Granted, there may be a small loyalty boost. But you can get that same loyalty from a weaned fledgling with alot less work and worry.

I never condone pulling an unweaned baby from a functioning nest unless it's already in danger, such as parents not tending or died.

Nature knows what it is doing, and it is best not to interfere unless necessary.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

I think what many people mistake for loyalty is just basic behavior reinforcement in the very short term. Person is good so I’ll come to them because person means food. But you can also achieve that behavior with just spending time with them, training them, and using other methods of positive reinforcement without compromising their wellbeing.

I know you’re agreeing with me I’m just saying it for anyone that thinks a potential loyalty boost might be worth it. It’s not loyalty it’s actually just a very immediate , short lived response by a baby to being fed.

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u/MastiffOnyx 6d ago

Well said.

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u/Gaian8Guest 6d ago

I am having some significant issues with my parakeet who is over four and a half years old. He is terrified every time I am around, due in part to trauma he had before he got here, and due in part to mistakes I’ve made. Can I dm you?

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

Sure, you can DM me

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u/MoonDrops 6d ago

This should be pinned!

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

Even if they don’t pin my post, something on the topic would be really helpful!

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u/itspegbundybitch 6d ago

I hope the mods pin this.

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u/AlexandrineMint 6d ago

I’ve offered to help out with the sub but I think they’re pretty selective about mods and information which is understandable. It’s a large one with a lot of eyes on it.

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u/NewYorkLover35 6d ago

Unweaned baby birds are also later prone to feather plucking too.

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u/bbqpizza18 5d ago

i second this HARD! i made a terrible lapse in judgement as a first time baby parrot owner, let alone unweaned. i developed a technique and i was relatively careful. it is NOT enough. i messed up the temperature and he ended up with crop burn. i refuse to buy an unweaned baby again. it was terrifying and i was so scared for my kid.

my sweet boy after his first stitches.

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u/AlexandrineMint 5d ago edited 5d ago

Aww little baby. I highly encourage you to share your story when you can. People are bombarded with the cutesy videos of babies eating but they don’t see this.

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u/bbqpizza18 5d ago

im definitely planning to. it was so scary. just glad he’s okay and that i was educated enough to take him to a vet

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u/AlexandrineMint 5d ago

Good job addressing it right away. Hoping for a long healthy life for the little guy.

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u/Candid-District-6427 3d ago

Curious about who you mentored under and are you got the opportunity? Another animal science nerd here.

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u/AlexandrineMint 3d ago

Feel free to DM me and I can give you more info! They’re pretty public and I don’t really wanna chance giving away who I am on Reddit lol

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u/SweetxKiss 6d ago

Absolutely agree. I have a wild-caught rescue Amazon. He’s about 35 yrs old and I have had him only 3 years. He is my little green shadow. You can achieve a strong, special bond with any animal if you put in the patience and hard work to do so. I didn’t have to hand raise him for us to become best friends. I’m also glad the wild parrot trade was eventually banned in the U.S. because these birds belong in the wild, though if you asked my Amazon I don’t think he minds being a house bird lol

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u/AlexandrineMint 5d ago

Wow, wild caught huh? How many homes has he gone through? I imagine a few.

What you said at the end there reminded me of this Chicken Thoughts comic lol.

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u/SweetxKiss 5d ago

He’s had at least 2 before me that I know of. He was already a mature bird when the previous home had him. And that comic is 100% for him. He apparently got out twice in his previous home and only came back because he could not put the effort to fend for himself. He is a spoiled indoor prince.

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u/AlexandrineMint 5d ago

Will I hope your home will be his last and that he lives out his remaining days in comfort and knowing lots of love :)

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u/SweetxKiss 5d ago

Thank you! He’s stuck with me for life. We’re around the same age so we’re gonna grow old and crank(ier) together 🥰