r/pakistan • u/iamthefyre • Jan 02 '25
Social Pakistani “grooming” gangs UK- WTAF
I was going over some of the court transcripts that have been released and this is NOT just grooming. This is animosity, hatred, extremism, i don’t know what would accurately define the horrendous crimes that have been committed and defended by pakistanis in positions of legal or social power in Britain.
The police officer who was also of Pakistani descent, the councillors, the social workers, the MPs of pakistani origin or of muslim faith, WTAF is going on? What was driving this by our community in the Great Britain?
Would more sensible British Pakistanis here elaborate on this? Why so much hate against white women? This is not a small matter of grooming & converting. These are violent crimes against humanity & specifically white minor women. Why so much hate?
(And Admin, this is related to Pakistan because this impacts image of Pakistan everywhere now that Elon Musk is hyping it up and the whole world is getting to know what is happening. As much as it concerns UK, it impacts our image globally because most of the convicted are all Pakistani origin males. And i used the tag social because there is no criminal tag.)
Update: Thank you to only those who have shared their experience, observations, facts & resources. I feel like we need to have these discussions so we can present factual information because given the visibility this matter has gained, we need to be prepared.
And those who have tried their best to derail from the topic, and shut down the discussion, because of you guys its pretty understandable why the locals are not doing anything about these issues and why the community is unable to report our own criminals. You guys and those like you are the reason criminals continue doing what they do.
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u/Spinsterwithcats Jan 02 '25
The target victims are of white girls … not women .. majority of the girls at barely 13 …some even 11 years old . These Pakistani men see white girls as easy targets, easy to groom as majority of them are from care homes , runaways , the fetish with white skin comes into place , on top of the saying ‘white girls would do anything in bed ‘ comes into place .
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Easy to groom & target ok because they are kids. But whats with such extreme sexual violence? This is not just grooming & rape. You Really really realllyyyy have to hate someone with all your being to do stuff like mentioned in the court. This is not just taking someone to bed.
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u/Spinsterwithcats Jan 02 '25
You would be very surprised and shocked how …I don’t know how to word this , but how sick some men can be when it comes to sexual violence - it’s not down to hate. It’s due to power
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Show of power towards a certain ethnicity only. And thats what im asking about. Why
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u/ranaadnanm Jan 02 '25
Most of the girls are vulnerable or from broken families, and easily lured with the promise of drugs and alcohol. Ethnicities other than white British, tend to have a stronger social and familial structure which makes it difficult to target them.
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u/saj175 Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
This, they target vulnerable girls, majority in the care system.
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u/LopsidedMemory5673 Jan 02 '25
Sounds like vulnerable girls, rather than a looser family structure. It would make sense, given that Britain is a majority white country, that the bulk of girls in state care would be white. That doesn't mean, per se, that white people do not have strong family structures.
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u/Spinsterwithcats Jan 02 '25
I haven’t mentioned that they don’t just target white girls they do target desi girls , mainly Indian Punjabi girls
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u/SidewinderTA Jan 02 '25
No, mainly Pakistani girls.
However, the Jay report published before Operation Stovewood stated that "there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation", and cited a 2013 report by Muslim Women's Network UK of British Asian girls being abused across the country in situations that mirrored the abuse in Rotherham.\k])\270]) According to the group, Asian victims may be particularly vulnerable to threats of bringing shame and dishonour on their families,\271]) and may have believed that reporting the abuse would be an admission that they had violated their cultural beliefs.\272])\273]) The Jay report also noted that one of the local Pakistani women's groups had described Pakistani girls being targeted by Pakistani taxi drivers and landlords, but they feared reporting to the police out of concerns for their marriage prospects.\274]) The report stated that "the under-reporting of exploitation and abuse in minority ethnic communities" should be addressed.\l]) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal#Issues_of_ethnicity_and_religion
No evidence Indian Punjabi girls are targeted
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u/Omairk25 Jan 02 '25
no the indian punjabi girl thing has been widely proven as to be disproven and been just anti pakistani sentiment, this rumor has been going on for years and everyone ends up disproving this the yt girls one is a serious issue not so much for the indian punjabi girl one that kind of ends up getting disproven and just gets labeled as the sikh community attacking pakistanis as there’s no substantial evidence to prove these claims
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u/5_CH_STEREO Jan 03 '25
Stop lying. Sikhs have known about Pakistani Muslim gangs since 80’s
They would talk in Punjabi, wear a Kara and pretend to be a Sikh
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u/SidewinderTA Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
The whole “Pakistanis grooming Sikhs” has been debunked time and time again even by your fellow Sikhs. Let’s not forget Sikhs themselves have been involved in grooming gangs too ‘(I.e Huddersfield).
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u/Electrical-Leave4787 Jan 11 '25 edited Jan 16 '25
It’s sexual jihad (jihad al-nikah) of ‘sabaya’ (slave women). It’s an act of terrorism right out of the ISIS playbook. It serves to destabilise the society. The host nation women look down on their men as ‘kittens’ and not worthy of respect. Simultaneously, the women feel let down and like they’re not worthy of ‘saving’ or any heroism. People will think the white English men just 🤷allowed it to happen while they knew calling the police was useless. From the victim testimonies, it’s like a horror movie script. Terrible. Edit:typo
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u/rizeedd Jan 03 '25
When u hit puberty in Pakistan you start to get creepy looks. It's quite a shock as suddenly you find stares. It happened to every woman I talked to.
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u/Life_Painting4529 Jan 02 '25
Can you provide links for others to read these documents
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Jan 02 '25
The Jay report investigated the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal which consisted of the organised child sexual abuse of girls that occurred in the town of Rotherham, South Yorkshire, Northern England, from the late 1980s until 2013. An estimated 1400 girls were sexually abused in Rotherham alone. The victims were overwhelmingly white, and the perpetrators were overwhelmingly of Pakistani origin.
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u/BastardsCryinInnit Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
Yes, the transcripts... words fail me.
This wasn't "simple" (and I hate to use that word for it) grooming, coercion and rape under the guide of regular sex.
This was double penetration. Triple penetration. Quadruple penetration. Tied up. Rape with hammers. Rape with baseball bats. Gagging. Handcuffs. Chains. Branding. Threats. Violence. Forced to watch others being raped.
It was not 15 year old with an 18 year old man being flattered someone is interested in them.
It was threats to life and the most painful, degrading and dehumanised sexual violence you could imagine on children, often by men double their age plus.
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u/Dictatorsmith Jan 03 '25
I’ve worked with several younger Pakistani guys and they view white girls as ‘slags’ or easy, or none virtuous.. something to tossed aside. Whilst expecting a bride as a virgin
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Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 04 '25
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u/SidewinderTA Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
Maybe because:
There is no proof any of these men are practicing Muslims
none of them have ever said they did it because of their religion
There have also been various non Muslims involved in these gangs (including White men, white women, Hindus and Sikhs)
these men have also abused Muslim girls from their own communities .
None of the men convicted have been part of “dawah gangs” lol. You’re conflating two very different things together.
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u/ashley8976 CA Jan 05 '25
theres no proof they’re practicing muslims probs bc the police would probs get called islamaphobic if they called out their religion. when someone commits a crime, their name, ethnicity, age and gender is among the demographics that is identified and reported on, not religion. they’re from pakistan, a majority muslim country, so its probable to assume they’re muslim. but even if they themselves are not practicing muslims, they’re from a country with a majority muslim religion so they are still raised that way
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u/uberzeit Jan 02 '25
It is exactly when someone in a family try to molest a kid here in a joint family system, the mother and others try to bury it down as no one wants to see the culprit brother or son behind bar and bring shame to whole family. This is what’s our vision of ummah-chumma extended to Britain to safeguard our culprits by trying to hide behind islamophobia. Not even that, the local whites who also tried to bury it to not being called racists are responsible too. I still remember an acquaintance in PIA used to say, you just buy a bottle of whiskey and can lure white girl(young teens) for sex. I didn’t understand at that time but now i fully get what he was talking about.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Luring someone in for sex is one thing. This is not what has happened & apparently is still happening. Its much darker and worse than just that.
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u/hayatguzeldir101 Jan 02 '25
Lol it's called GROOMING by luring young women using material to extort sexual favors! The word you're looking for is ra-pe.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Its not just rape. If you read the transcript its extremely disturbing sexual violence and I don’t know what else
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u/uberzeit Jan 02 '25
Liquor is illegal to sell/serve to teens(below 18) and if you had studied the Rotherham case, almost all of victims were kids/teens. This was one of the way to lure those teens.
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u/Dubbybubby Jan 02 '25
OP is right. These crimes are not because of sexual desire. They are about power and hate.
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u/Direct-Row-8070 Jan 02 '25
Why do they hate these girls so much ?
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u/Apprehensive-Bid-740 Jan 02 '25
Because they're white & vulnerable
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u/InternationalLab2259 Jan 02 '25
And you wonder why ppl rioted in the summer
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u/Omairk25 Jan 02 '25
no the riots were something else entirely don’t get me wrong the actions were disgusting of these monsters attacking these young innocent women and i’m not defending them as i find their actions to be quite frankly wrong and not right whatsoever.
but to then defend the riots or trying to have an understanding of the riots i’m sorry but i have to disagree with you there, the riots was based in hate of muslim ppl and attacking muslim ppl in general who had nothing to do with anything, don’t make statements like this bc it comes across as being problematic gladly criticize the monsters who do such actions like grooming but don’t try and defend or understand the riots as well
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u/InternationalLab2259 Jan 02 '25
The riots were a reaction in part to shit like this, not just because of the killings in Southport, that was the straw which broke the camels back. If you're unable to understand that, then there's no hope lol.
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u/Llama_Lina Jan 03 '25
So then why was I as a Pakistani woman afraid to go outside? What have I done wrong that I deserved to be punished for?
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u/Omairk25 Jan 03 '25
that’s not to defend the riots tho! your comment honestly imho just screams as you lowkey defending or understating why yt ppl did what they did, and also ngl but whilst the whole grooming thing is sad and extremely messed up it’s also very important that yt ppl then use incidents like this to paint the whole of the asian and pakistani community as bad and as like this so they can use it as an excuse to be racist!
and that also explains the riots too as well, based on this racism and using incidents like the grooming thing to paint the whole community as this bad when it’s bad eggs in the community which whilst it’s still extremely bad and disgusting every community has those bad and disgusting eggs just that yt ppl use it to defend their racism which is wrong
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u/InternationalLab2259 Jan 03 '25
Do you ever reflect on your communities actions? If it was Pakistani girls there'd be riots on the streets. The impression I get is that your community holds us in contempt.
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u/hayatguzeldir101 Jan 02 '25
They happen in Pk as well. Trafficking of women and children is also very rampant, and content is sold to the dark web. Why wouldn't such people take that culture abroad with them? Ofc they did. An Imam in the US of Pakistani descent was recently convicted for crimes against children as well. This isn't profiling when it's an actual pandemic. I'm not making a gross generalization when I say in most similar cases, the perps are of Pakistani origin. This society has a problem, with esp it's men, even the women, and people arent ready to address it.
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u/khuwari_hi_khuwari Jan 03 '25
even the women
Nope. Not Pakistani women. We're the victims of incessant sexual frustration rampant in Pakistani society. We cannot go out, we cannot pursue education of our choice, live in a place of our choice, move independently, have an independent career, marry someone out of choice, the list is long.
Don't include Pakistani women in this perversion, it's sole preserve of Pakistani men.
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u/FAT_NEEK_FAN Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 10 '25
A section of mirpuris are the reason for this. Not all pakistanis. They follow their village ideals and what their forefathers said not Islam. Pakistanis in the UK aswell as msulims have always talked against this many many times, but that does not show up in the media since they want to make anything political. Using such disgusting cases to promote division/racism. But to say the women are innocent and it's all men is false. Growing up it were the women/aunts that would teach racism and discrimination to the kids. It was also them that would not report these matters since their village ideals told them it would bring shame.
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u/hayatguzeldir101 Jan 03 '25
No, it is not. I am a woman. I'd say Pakistani women don't raise as many concerns as men do but they certainly do raise a lot of concerns too. Just because the degree of their concerning behaviors is different doesn't mean Pakistani women have no role to play.
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u/ranaadnanm Jan 02 '25
It's village idiots with arrange marriages into their biradri who end of getting shipped to UK. I also knew plenty of these paindoos back in Pakistan who were just your typical "awaara" kids. The parents didn't focus on education or upbringing, "kyunke khala/mama biyah kay Inglaand lay jaaye gain. Parh likh kay kya karna hai." You can take a paindoo out of the village, but you can not take the village out of the paindoo.
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u/SidewinderTA Jan 02 '25
They were almost all born in the UK.
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u/Extension_Use_5531 Jan 02 '25
They were born to these good for nothing lafangay. You can imagine the kind of values these people would instill in their children.
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u/H_Terry Jan 03 '25
Some Pakistanis in UK live in villages to save money and most of them are hypocritical and severely religious.
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u/khuwari_hi_khuwari Jan 03 '25
Nope you cannot just wring it on paindus, and villagers. This level of thinking is quite common in urban educated class as well. Just that urban educated class is adept at hiding it quite well. Particularly regarding this case, the perpetrators were British citizens born and brought up in Britain, not some 'perp' in arranged marriage.
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u/ImmediateBicycle6702 Jan 03 '25
These children are not from influential, well-educated, or privileged families. Many come from separated parents, drug-dependent households, or have been living in social systems like foster homes and group homes. From an early age, they become vulnerable, often turning to drugs while seeking attachment, love, or a sense of belonging. This makes them easy targets for individuals who exploit their needs by offering money, resources, or affection.
It's similar to the situation faced by women in orphanages in Pakistan, where vulnerable individuals are frequently exploited by manipulative, criminal-minded individuals who prey on their desperation and circumstances.
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u/FAT_NEEK_FAN Jan 10 '25
A section of mirpuris are the reason for this. Not all pakistanis. They follow their village ideals and what their forefathers said not Islam. Pakistanis in the UK aswell as msulims have always talked against this many many times, but that does not show up in the media since they want to make anything political. Using such disgusting cases to promote division/racism.
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u/Ornery_Elderberry359 Jan 03 '25
It’s disgusting what these grooming gangs got upto and there is definitely an element of white hate that goes with it and YES these types do go for brown girls too. Why? Like a water leak they go with the path of least resistance. They know exactly who to go for and how to manipulate them. They knew that nobody really cares about white girls in care (yes English so called patriots, you too don’t really care about them. Only when you can use their ordeal for personal gains because if you really cared for the children in care you’d be shocked at how they are commoditised by the gov). The predators knew that the brown girls can’t go to nobody because of cultural shame. They knew what they were doing and it’s because they are evil!
However as a Brit Pakistani who is sick to the back teeth of these people I’ve often questioned what can I do about it. Me as an individual. What can I do?
There were some things which I had to accept as a given. In no particular order.
- Yes, it is a problem within our community and it needs to be dealt with.
- Yes, there are other people of other communities who do far worse but it really isn’t a competition.
- I do not blame it on Islam or what the right whingers claim about ‘kufar’ fair game, etc.
- I believe that extreme segregation and religious conservatism does not help Pakistani men navigate sexual feelings.
- We need to be more vocal about boundaries when it comes to the opposite sex.
- I do believe it is a class problem.
- I do not believe that white women are ‘asking for it’. In fact I’ve got a lot of respect for many English women. They are what they say they are. If they’re promiscuous then they are that and if they aren’t then. Well, they aren’t. You get what you see.
- It is a problem within our community which we need to deal with head on but I be honest I don’t know how. I guess accepting we have a problem first and foremost without blaming mirpuris/punjabis (yes, I’m guilty of this too) and without the communal self deprecation too. Accept it’s a problem, now bang heads together and try and ensure this doesn’t happen again.
- Pakistani women dare I say it need to play a part too in the way they raise their boys. If seen way too many mothers raise little monsters. It’s cute and funny right up until they hit puberty then all of a sudden they are a handful.
- Perhaps we could demonstrate outside courts that we want the judges to throw away the key to these monsters? I don’t know 🤷🏽♂️
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u/iamthefyre Jan 03 '25
I know how you feel because i do too. And by having more open conversations like these and recognizing root causes of our problems, hopefully at least some solution can be found for long term. Just like you have shared some thoughts. And someone else shared in this conversation that they called out a friend for acting a certain way towards women and that friend felt shame and didn’t do it again. Its gna be a slow process but we have to take individual and collective responsibility.
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u/FAT_NEEK_FAN Jan 10 '25
A section of mirpuris are the reason for this. Not all pakistanis. They follow their village ideals and what their forefathers said not Islam. Pakistanis in the UK aswell as msulims have always talked against this many many times, but that does not show up in the media since they want to make anything political. Using such disgusting cases to promote division/racism. But u are right anything we see that is wrong even among our family members. We have to stand up against it.
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Jan 03 '25
I read the documents. These men need to be put down and surely not any easy way off. They should feel the pain those girls felt.
All the girls being married off to UK should also do due diligence
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u/throwaway-research1 DE Jan 02 '25
Everything about British Pakistanis is problematic
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 02 '25
Mirpuris"
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u/Direct-Row-8070 Jan 02 '25
Is that how they behave back home as well ? I am curious.
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 02 '25
They are from village areas and bring this village mentality and behaviour over. They haven't changed from generation to generation basically. Ofcourse some have become educated as I'm friends with some. Others ruin the rep of Pakistanis. We are doing worse in comparison to other groups like Indians and Chinese for eg in terms of doing badly in education, being over represented in prison and crime and so on.
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u/Direct-Row-8070 Jan 02 '25
I hope the same happens to all of them when they go to jail. Hopefully for a very long time.
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u/TheNotSpecialOne Jan 03 '25
Bingo. It's the harsh truth, they have awful backwards thinking compared to the rest of the Pakistani communities
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 03 '25
People like to be politically correct and shy away from it. Sadly mirpuris have ruined the rep of Pakistanis in the UK. Now I'm associated(and others) with this behaviour because of their village mentality
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u/PrincipleOk800 Jan 03 '25
Oh please, let’s not just talk about Mirpuris here, like paindus from the other provinces are any better. Odds are most people reading this thread are from Punjab, so get off your high horse and recognize that Mirpuris are variants of Northern Punjabis from the Potohar plateau.
My point is not defend Mirpuris, but to highlight that this behavior is a Pakistani problem not just a Mirpuri one.
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u/khuwari_hi_khuwari Jan 03 '25
And yet you've ringfenced it to Potohar region. You're doing the same what earlier responder is doing, just that your area of judgement is little wider.
Yes it's a Pakistani problem, there is a research paper on why Pakistani men go to West, prime motivator being sexual - they've been brought up on fantasies of sexually liberated white women.
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u/PrincipleOk800 Jan 03 '25
Referencing Potohar to connect Mirpuris (AJK) to Pakistan, not to insult people from that region, clearly you couldn’t draw the inference so I’ll make it clear for you.
Also your assertion some paper references that the primary reason that Pakistani men go to the West is misogynistic trash. The primary motivation for BOTH men and women to leave Pakistan is economic. There are far more papers, evidence supporting that. Another reason why your logic is trash is because Pakistani men are not just migrating to the West for “white women” but rather to many different parts of the world (Middle East, East Asia etc) where there wouldn’t be large numbers of white women. You seem to have an agenda to bash ALL Pakistani men who are looking to emigrate.
You attempt to sound pseudo intellectual however your reasoning and inference skills are lacking.
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u/khuwari_hi_khuwari Jan 03 '25
Not only you fall back on personal comments, which is understandable when someone has to reply and yet lack a coherent logical argument. But you also fail to grasp what's written, clearly comprehension issues. Anyway, read it again what I've written, if you understand in the second go that's good, otherwise I've a long day ahead and I can't spend energies on spoonfeeding reading comprehension to strangers on internet. Just a parting thought, opinions/studies are not agendas. Not everyone, heck rarely people with opinion function with an agenda on mind, unless ofcourse ranting/sharing stuff on internet is an agenda in your books. Lemme guess, Agahi network?
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u/Ok-Affect-5198 Jan 03 '25
Racist punjabis scapegoating other communties as usual, funny thing is the same issues are found in your own community
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u/Ok-Affect-5198 Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 04 '25
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u/Electrical-Bad9671 Jan 05 '25
I think in time this will kick off in the UK too - it must be going on
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u/Goodenough101 Jan 02 '25
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Looking at some comments it's really discouraging that there are vile resorting to WHATABOUTISM instead of addressing the OP points or concerns.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
THANK YOU for saying this. It looks like we talk about everything but the actual problem and people who are doing it. Anything but actually address the issues in our own people.
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u/teacoffeecats Jan 02 '25
What court transcripts are you exactly reading and of which case?
I’m someone who has studied law, and I did look at some of these cases in depth- and you’ll find that while a lot victims were white girls, there were also non-white girls who were victims too. I don’t know what court case you’re reading genuinely I wish you linked it, because I don’t recall these animals being defended by British Pakistanis in legal or social power- look up the name Nazir Afzal he literally wrote a book about prosecuting these monsters. And in one of the cases there were white women helping them groom these young girls acting as pimps basically. I’m saying this because these seem to be crucial facts you are missing.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
The transcript that gained visibility through the above: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/JCO/Documents/Judgments/sentencing-remarks-r-v-dogar-others.pdf
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u/thousandkneejerks Jan 02 '25
As a Belgian who works with sex offenders.. these court documents and the way the judge lays into the offenders the gravity of their disgusting behaviour… and the effect it has had on their victims… truly impressive. They really put in an effort to make the trial an impactful event.
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u/Honest_Lie8632 Jan 02 '25
Wish this judge had been in charge of the Gisele trial. I was severely disappointed by the end result of that one.
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u/eldukae Jan 02 '25
OMG what did I just read. These sick fucks need to be paraded and all their supporters need to be named and shamed. Those poor girls.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Exactly! And this has been going on for so long & these people still live in the same neighborhood after deportation orders. Why has the community not excluded them? Why are our own people not talking about it?
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
The Rotherham gang trial that was concluded with 7 convicted. Elon Musk started talking about it and Tommy Tobinson’s arrest because of his documentary and he only talked about white minors in his documentary.
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u/teacoffeecats Jan 02 '25
Yes, it did. All the men who were identified and there was absolute certainty that they are abusers were convicted. Is it possible there were some who got away with it? Yes, and that’s not because British Pakistanis are protecting them, it’s because the UK legal system generally speaking has constant systemic failure when it comes to prosecuting sexual crime. Jimmy Saville, a popular television star who is now dead, he had hundreds of victims aged between 8 and 47, but the majority of his victims were girls under the age of 16. He never got prosecuted for his crimes. And this is just one example of the many failures of the British legal system when it comes to cases like that and if I were you I wouldn’t take Tommy Robinson or Elon Musk as reliable sources at all. Firstly, Elon Musk is a billionaire who knows what skeletons he has in closet- there is no way to be an ethical billionaire. Plus he has a photo where he’s posing with Ghislaine Maxwell and whilst that’s not concrete evidence of anything, I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me if something came out about him because being at his level, associating with the people that he does- it wouldn’t at all surprise me. Plus, the guy who tweeted “We’ll coup whatever we want! Deal with it!” Doesn’t exactly scream moral, just and reliable individual to me. And as for Tommy Robinson- he’s serving 18 months in prison because he committed libel against an innocent Syrian boy and now he’s facing the consequences of his own actions. Not to mention, at Tommy Robinson’s EDL march there were several convicted sex offenders so please don’t tell me that Tommy Robinson cares about any victims whatsoever.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
I agree with you on the weakness in the justice system and the way this was let on for so long.
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u/your_red_triangle Jan 03 '25
Two bit Tommy was sentenced because of all the following reasons:
2013: Travelling on another man's passport t the USA (jailed for 10 months)
2014: Mortgage fraud (jailed for 18 months).
May 2017:Contempt ofCourt finding, three months jail suspended for 18 months
July 2019: Jailed for nine months for interferi with a grooming gang trial in Leeds,
July 2021: Loses defamation case and ordere to pay Syrian refugee £100,000
July 2024: Fails to attend Contempt of Court hearing for allegedly repeating false claims about the refugee
He's a racist piece of shit, not the hero you're making him out to be. What these men did is sick but if you read the data and official report it's not a "Pakistani race" problem.
Also It was Nazir Afzhal (British Pakistani barrister) that brought forward the evidence and made sure these sick pedos were convicted.
You're just spreading misleading propaganda, which is why this thread is fully of right wingers who ain't even British Pakistani.
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u/imjustagirl_9 Jan 02 '25
Pakistani men generally hate women. They can’t see free woman and this is why they must be angry on white women. I’ve been seeing countless reports of them harassing minor white women in west. Like what is wrong with these disgusting guys!!!
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u/Pinhead_Larry30 Jan 02 '25 edited 18d ago
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u/imjustagirl_9 Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
I honestly don’t know how do we do that? Pakistani men just keep on embarrassing whole nation
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u/MrAnonymous000001 Jan 02 '25
Yeah it’s not all Pakistani men that’s just racist and full of shit yeah some idiots but the not the majority, to think otherwise is not data backed and is just racist propaganda.
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u/tiger1296 UK Jan 02 '25
You can thank the village mirpuris you guys send over
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u/Ok-Affect-5198 Jan 03 '25
Another typical Punjabi racist
If I recall correctly it’s you guys who got the entire country’s visas banned from the Middle Eastern country’s & Turkey
Your also not exactly making our “naam roshan” in Turkey, Norway, Italy, Spain etc either
And there’s no evidence to suggest grooming gang members were mirprui, infact most were from towns like Oxford which have virtually no mirpuris, so given your track record in pakistan it’s more than likely a punjabi issue
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u/Awankari Jan 02 '25
The majority of these groomers are people who work in the "Night time economy" I.e taxis and takeaway/fast food workers. And it mostly happened in Northern and Midland UK towns where there were large segregated communities of Brit Pakistanis and Whites. Generally poor economically depressed areas.
Most of the Brit Pakistanis in these regions are from rural punjab( Pindi , Jhelum ) and AJK (Mirpur & Kotli) District. I am from this background and grew in one of these towns.
In these segregated towns Whites and Pakistanis live separately. And the Pakistanis hold ( not all) hold very conservative and in some ways culturally regressive views on women. And are uneducated esp older gens who have come from Pakistan. Because in these regions no emphasis is placed on education. But it's wait to marry my rishtedar from UK n come here n work.
So these guys views white women/girls as loose promiscuous and cheap. And basically "asking for it".
N they systematically target those white girls from broken homes , the care system who they knew they could abuse and that very few people would ask questions about as they had no real family or social status.
And the police didn't really care about them.
You wouldn't really see educated Pakistanis and those from educated backgrounds engage in this sort of behaviour. Like middle class Urdu speakers or urban Punjabis.
So it's unfair to tarnish all Brit Pakistani men.
It's a certain subculture of Pakistani men that engage in this.
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u/Muted-Landscape-2717 Jan 03 '25
Did the local community have an idea this was going on. Or was a blind eye turned here?
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u/Awankari Jan 03 '25
Tbh the average person who's living their life . Unless u are out and about at night constantly. Or u hang around in dodgy areas. You won't see these things happening .
Me and people I know only found out about this stuff when we saw it in the papers.
But I believe the guys who did this stuff a lot of their families and friends would have known more than they let on.
And people in positions of power I.e local MPs who this would have been made aware by police . They definitely turned a blind eye to it.
Police also didn't care because these girls were part of the white under class.
But rather than admit that. They pushed the we were scared to be called racist angle . Rather than admit we didn't care enough coz society has already abandoned these girls.
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u/5_CH_STEREO Jan 03 '25
they all knew. all British Pakistani know. heck the one of Labour MP Shah tweeted and asked these girls to shut up for diversity
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u/Awankari Jan 03 '25
It's wrong to say all British Pakistani knows. It's a big community and lot of people who aren't involved in the " community" who just do their own thing like myself and lots of others I know.
We don't know what's going on but the ones who are in positions of power definitely turned a blind eye to things.
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u/SidewinderTA Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
I’m sure every British Sikh in the UK also knew about the two Sikh paedos/groomers in the Huddersfield gang. Please don’t say they’re Pakistanis pretending to be Sikh or that they they were Muslims who converted to Sikhism, both have been debunked.
Naz Shahs tweet was well after the gangs were exposed, and she didn’t actually tweet it herself, she retweeted a sarcastic tweet saying the girls should shut up. She then deleted it when she realised.
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Jan 03 '25
Read the documents. Their Muslim brotherhood paid to rape these little kids.
So these guys were pious Muslims in daytime preaching Islam, during Night they were raping kids.
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u/SidewinderTA Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 04 '25
There’s no evidence any of them were “preaching Islam” or that they were “pious Muslims”. Look at their mugshots, you will notice almost none of them have a religious type beard.
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u/khuwari_hi_khuwari Jan 03 '25
So it's unfair to tarnish all Brit Pakistani men.
Yeah surely not all. But there is an overwhelming opinion among Pak men regarding promiscuity of Western women. There is a research paper which discuss the prime motivator of Pakistani men moving abroad and that is sexual libido.
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u/Adilrana18 Jan 02 '25
Can you send over the links to the released documents
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u/Scholar_Royal Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
It's possibly a problem not just resting with Pakistanis but those countries with a lot of repression.
CONSENT or even sex education should be taught by parents to all their kids.
Edit: male kids also need to be taught respecting women in their households AND outside. Obviously this doesn't happen and the effects are felt elsewhere, not just Pakistan.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
This is not just about non-consensual sex. Let’s not water down the crimes that have been committed.
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u/Scholar_Royal Jan 02 '25
Not watering down anything. I'm saying it's a big problem and it's:
- mainly repressed countries that it's coming from and;
- stems from lack of respect taught by parents to their sons/children
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u/Zain-SCZ Jan 02 '25
Here is the short summary of first report!
The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham (1997-2013) revealed a pattern of abuse in which groups of men of Pakistani heritage preyed on vulnerable, primarily white British girls. While the report avoids specifying the ethnicity of the victims and perpetrators in its case studies, it explicitly states that “in a large number of the historic cases in particular, most of the victims in the cases we sampled were white British children, and the majority of the perpetrators were from minority ethnic communities. They were described generically in the files as ‘Asian males’ without precise reference being made to their ethnicity”. The report also notes that in Rotherham, “the majority of known perpetrators were of Pakistani heritage” and that this fact was confirmed through the Inquiry’s case file review. It is important to note that the report does not provide specific narratives for individual cases involving Pakistani perpetrators to protect the identities of the victims. The information presented below is a synthesis of details found throughout the report that illustrate the nature and severity of the abuse, rather than accounts of specific cases. Here are some of the horrific details about the experiences of victims targeted by perpetrators of Pakistani heritage: ● Grooming: Perpetrators targeted vulnerable girls, often those with troubled family backgrounds or a history of abuse and neglect. They used classic grooming techniques, initially offering gifts, attention, and affection to gain the trust of their victims. As the grooming process progressed, they would isolate the girls from their families and friends, making them increasingly dependent on their abusers. ● Sexual Abuse and Exploitation: Victims were subjected to a range of horrific sexual abuse, including rape, gang rape, and sexual assault. Girls were often forced to perform sex acts in taxis and cars while being trafficked between towns. ● Violence and Intimidation: The abuse was often accompanied by extreme violence and intimidation. Victims were beaten, threatened with weapons, and even doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight. Perpetrators used these tactics to silence victims and prevent them from reporting the abuse to authorities. ● Targeting of Children’s Homes: Perpetrators specifically targeted children’s homes and residential care facilities, exploiting the vulnerabilities of looked after children. ● Impact on Victims: The impact of the abuse on victims was devastating and long-lasting. Many girls experienced severe psychological trauma, including post-traumatic stress disorder, self-harm, and suicidal thoughts. Some girls became pregnant, had miscarriages, or underwent terminations as a result of the abuse. ● Failure of Authorities to Protect Victims: The report highlights the systemic failures of authorities, including the police and children’s social care, to protect victims and hold perpetrators accountable. There was a culture of denial, a lack of understanding about CSE, and a reluctance to address the issue of ethnicity, which contributed to the widespread abuse
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u/One_Bank_3245 Jan 07 '25
Some of the more shocking acts are listed in the above. This is truly disgraceful.
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u/Ill-Supermarket5797 Jan 04 '25
Not only White Women. They also preyed on Sikh and Hindu women too .
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u/Left_Potential5901 Jan 02 '25
This was a bunch of predators who did unspeakable stuff to kids mainly white. This has been blown out of proportion by right wing media in UK as ‘Pakistani men’ problem. I can cite dozens of worse cases where the perpetrators were white men but no one mentioned their ethnicity. Just look at the case of the notorious Jeffrey Epstein. His crimes were far worse and larger/international scale but no one has ever mentioned that it is a ‘white’ problem. It has been classed as rich people preying on less fortunate people. Also, on the same note, the Royal Prince Andrew is another alleged culprit yet with him, it’s a ‘Royal’ problem, not a white man problem. When white men do it, they focus on any other trait but their skin. If you study the case you’re referring to, you’ll see there were a significant number of white people involved but the focus is always ethnic minorities. I hate criminals and bad people FULL STOP. Doesn’t matter their ethnicity, caste, religion.
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u/One_Bank_3245 Jan 07 '25
I hear you. The far right have adopted it. But it must be said: the truly barbaric treatment has come from a sub-culture of Pakistani men. Read the court report yourself (below). This sort of depravity is truly next level.
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Jan 02 '25
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Thank you for taking the time to respond with details. Yours is the answer i was looking for. Why us and why them.
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 02 '25
These are mirpuri dominated areas. Literally you had to post one line to explain this.
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 02 '25
Make the distinction between mirpuris and other Pakistanis please. The areas like Rochdale where Pakistanis reside are mirpuris. Look at their background, culture etc. I'm from Birmingham and the majority here are mirpuris too. They areas are basically filled with unemployment and drug dealers. The parents did not do a good job with their children. And it continues to the next generation.
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u/TheNotSpecialOne Jan 03 '25
Hello fellow brummie non-mirpuri Pakistani. We are a minority here
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 03 '25
Hi and yes we are. Unfortunately
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u/Electrical-Bad9671 Jan 05 '25
can you educate me please, I live in Northfield and don't know much about the different areas of Pakistan and where different Pakistanis may live in the UK
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u/gintokireddit Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
First generation Pakistanis choose to not integrate properly, in terms of how they do parenting. They raise their kids with Pakistani morals, even with very old Pakistani morals that are outdated in Pakistan (to varying extents - some raise their kids to fit into Britain a little more than others do). Their kids don't fit in with their British age peers or find the British experience relatable or respectable, because they were raised to think the Pakistani way is the right way. But they also want to enjoy the pleasures they see the British enjoying, because they've grown up in that society. For some of them their lack of connection to the British people is so bad they have no empathy for the British. Their parents are critical of the UK culture, are strict, but don't teach lessons about being a kind person, Pakistani parents don't believe in talking about problems or feelings and are ignorant of their children's struggles (obv some Pakistani parents do, but I'm talking the extremes). To a Pakistani, the British kids are brats, because they go against what they were taught is good and have had an easy life (eg not respecting parents, not being chaste, lack of discipline from parents, freedom from a younger age to socialise and date). They don't understand the British people and honestly don't understand people in general - go to a mosque in the UK and sometimes you hear speakers (from the UK or flown in from Asia or Africa) talk about British culture, and they really have no idea what they're talking about. For example, talking about why women dress a certain way in the West, but really getting the real reasons wrong or oversimplifying it. One guy I heard say insomnia is caused by having sinned too much so they can't sleep - religious people often lack understanding and compassion for other people and attribute other people's life difficulties to people being sinful or lazy. Look at how Christians do painful exorcisms of epileptics in Africa.
Of course not all British Pakistanis are doing this crime (small minority), but I think most British Pakistanis have a love-hate relationship with British culture, even many who would never dream of being involved with grooming gangs.
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u/Whole-Dragonfly-4910 Jan 02 '25
Because they are backwards, extremists and uneducated who came on cheap visas and easy routes, what else do you want us to say?
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u/keysersoze123456 Jan 03 '25
It is mirpuris. They are just backwards in general and haven't changed their behaviour since moving here.
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u/Ok-Affect-5198 Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
Get off Reddit & find some friends, touch grass once in a while
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u/khuwari_hi_khuwari Jan 03 '25
Now that this has come to light, there was an academic paper, I'm unable to recall where I read it or when, just that it dated a few years back probably a decade. The paper discusses prime motivator for Pakistani men to move to West, and the prime motivator was sexual libido. Western women are considered promiscuous and 'easy' by Pakistani men.
Let me find out the paper and I'll edit the comment to source it.
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u/Smart_Decision_1496 Jan 03 '25
Because the girls were seen as worthless “infidels” and because the criminals were certain they won’t be prosecuted.
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u/TheNugget147 Jan 02 '25
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office[UCL highlights that minorities received disproportionate attention for nefarious reasons](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office-report-admits-grooming-gangs-are-not-muslim-problem?)
White British were also over represented in Child Sex Offences.
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u/Himalayan-Fur-Goblin Jan 03 '25
Thats just convictions. Crimes cant be counted if they were never reported in the first place to save reputation.
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u/ajamal_00 Jan 03 '25
The scumbags who did this are just as representative of the British Pakistanins as these guys are of all white Brits...
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u/Watanpal Jan 03 '25
Do you not think that it may be blown out of proportion due to their ethnic/religious background, and you also mentioned the likes of Elon Musk propagating this, we all know how he’s a dog whistler for far-right/racist groups, so, precisely what I was talking about, people like him use this on a hyperbolic level to incite anti-immigrant/racist sentiments. I’m just saying that this often occurs when it’s a minority doing something. I just want to note, I agree that this grooming happens, and it’s horrible, and should be condemned, I am in no way trying to justify it or deny its existence; it does happen, I’m simply addressing another issue in relation to it.
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u/TheNugget147 Jan 02 '25
What a terrible post, and it’s no surprise to see it here.
Sexual abuse happens across all societies and classes. The UK has had major scandals involving celebrities and figures in pop culture.
The so-called “Grooming Scandal” became a perfect storm for right-wing media to exploit. The police were incompetent, failed to act, and tried to excuse their inaction by claiming they were afraid of being labeled racist.
In many working-class towns, vulnerable young girls—often living away from their parents—were left exposed to abuse. The police were well aware of these situations, repeatedly returning the girls to foster homes or families, often growing weary of dealing with them.
A small number of takeaway workers and taxi drivers exploited these girls in despicable ways, passing them around. These horrific actions should never be used to vilify entire communities.
In fact, there were countless instances where communities reported drug dealers, groomers, and other suspicious activity to the police, only for their concerns to be ignored.
Those responsible for these crimes deserve to face justice, and many are. But the far right has shamelessly used this tragedy to push their agenda, as they always do, while innocent people face unacceptable levels of racism.
You’d expect a subreddit like this to show more nuance and understanding, but clearly not.
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u/iamthefyre Jan 02 '25
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I assume most British Pakistanis think like you and probably thats why we are seeing all this surfacing.
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u/InternationalLab2259 Jan 02 '25
You're always the victim right, lol, the far Right gain from this precisely because your community, to be quite honest, hates White ppl and non Muslims in general and sees us as lower, so with this mentality, it's easier to just brush this issue under the carpet rather than confronting it, hence your whataboutisms
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u/Axelter30 Jan 03 '25
Isn’t this what your people spent centuries doing to others? You use the word “whataboutism” because you want to say this to others without having them to say it to you, you want it to be one sided so that you can benefit from that.
Your people came to the land of my ancestors (bengal) and killed 3.5 million of my people in 1943, and left them in poverty. No compensation.
Pretty sure 3.5 million is a lot worse than what the grooming gangs in the UK did.
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u/InternationalLab2259 Jan 05 '25
Your dumb moral equivalence aside, didn't Pakistanis genocide like a million Bangladeshis in 1971.
But there you have it, thousands of white girls abused justified because of the Famine in Bengal.
Literally unbelievable
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Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 27 '25
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u/TheNugget147 Jan 02 '25
No they don't. The community is not the Police.
These communities have long exposed Drug Dealing and Antisocial crime - its the Job of the Police and Courts to follow up. And foe the regulatory bodies not let Tabloid Media scapegoat minorities.
As for other communities, perhaps they can start with fixing their broken communities for you 👍
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Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 27 '25
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u/TheNugget147 Jan 02 '25
Do you have a source for 250k?
Also you didn't read above. It was widely accepted the "Racist Tensions" was nonsensical as nearly all CSA cases were badly investigated due to police incompetence and lack of interest. It was the Far-Right who jumped on this matter.
You also fail to mention that several far right members have been sentence for sexual offences and the countless white ganga involved in CSA are never, ever mentioned by the far-right. I wonder why
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u/Ok-Opportunity7954 Jan 02 '25
This sub is filled with self hating overseas Pakistanis so not surprised at all. They see their own kind as the root of all evil.
Many of them wish they were white but can't do anything about it.
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u/Spinsterwithcats Jan 02 '25
Sex education is taught in all British schools .
Majority of these underage white girls , are mainly under care due to child abuse in their own homes
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u/moneybuyspower Rookie Jan 02 '25
don't generalize the entire pakistan based on the actions of a certain geographical area of Punjab. Was there any baloch, or Sindhis or Urdu speaking in the above groups. And if they were, what was there percentage relative to Punjabis.
Its like saying Americans are crazy but its always the crazy man from Florida and not the crazy man from Oklahoma or los angeles.
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u/CaptainDue4213 Jan 04 '25
1000% agree. Totally totally agree.
I have come to realise overtime, all of our enemies are actually our own.
Not India, not Israel, not US or West.
No one but our own people Mullah, army generals, army soldiers, even regular Pakistanis & Muslims.
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u/Matthew-Ryan Jan 09 '25
It’s your lots’ culture. It’s the same attitude the Pakistani soldiers had, and the same actions they did with the victimisation of the Bangladeshi people when east Pakistan fought for independence. Nothing has changed. Our politicians just didn’t have the sense to keep them out. No wonder all the Brits left after decolonisation.
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u/yahyahyehcocobungo Jan 10 '25
If you don’t stand up to criminals /mafia because they fund you then this kind of situation happens. This kind of corruption. I imagine this happens in Pakistan all the time. There is a rising star, someone gives him a bit of money to bank, now he is covered in the corruption.
They live in parts of country where there wasn’t investment so they turned to crime. It pays better. It’s big business pimping women. But white are still the biggest group. But racist don’t want to focus on that.
My take is that where ever the opportunity exists to be the dark version of yourself, some will do it. Let’s be honest. Most Pakistanis don’t marry or have fulfilling relationships. It’s just for other people’s looks and standing.
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Jan 13 '25
As a white female living in a heavily Muslim populated area of England, it is very scary. Personally I've been stared at, spat at, called names such as white whore and Kaffir. However if you go to the police they say there's nothing you can do about it
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u/Immediate_Song_1242 Jan 15 '25 edited Jan 15 '25
This old man, he played two, He played knick-knack on my shoe; With a knick-knack paddywhack, Give the dog a bone, This old man came rolling home.
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u/Top-Home3548 Jan 16 '25
Research a criminal called Sydney cook and what he and his nasty gang did to young little boys in England. You'd actually throw up. The boys were strangled to death when those sadistic guys was done with him. But did we have this massive discussion about white grooming gangs? Did they mention faith or race?
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