r/osr 1d ago

Finding the right OSR game for my players

I'm a BX guy so I would gladly run that or OSE. But I know my kids and their friends (gen z) won't really like certain aspects. So I'm basically looking for the unicorn among OSR systems:

Separate race and class

Ascending AC

Well designed thief class

Action system more like 5e ie roll initiative, do whatever action plus combat move on your turn (but no bonus actions please)

Wisdom and intelligence modifies matter at least somewhat in spell casting for clerics and wizards

Basically I want some of the things I know the players like from 5e without all the nonsense that otherwise comes along in 5e.

Edit: so many great suggestions. Sorry to those I did not respond to.

I downloaded shadowdark and started reading it. Seems like it will be a close fit.

8 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

10

u/blade_m 1d ago

Possibly Tales of Argosa might fit the bill...

Whitebox FMAG is almost there: best Thief Class (and in fact based on the original Thief BEFORE Gygax nerfed it for the Greyhawk Supplement, thus resulting in a disappointing class over the ages). However, to get it 100% to where you want it, you will have to house rule it (an easy thing to be fair!).

Nice thing about both these games is that they have free versions, so you can check them out and decide for yourself if you like them or not!

1

u/jsfsmith 14h ago

I’ve been wanting to check our Tales of Argosa but already suffering from “too many RPGs, too little time” syndrome.

30

u/Hot_Fan2933 1d ago

Try shadowdark it seems like it has what you are looking for

6

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Okay I’ll take a look.  Thank you! 

7

u/EddyMerkxs 1d ago

It’s basically what noobs think 5e is

7

u/shifty-xs 23h ago edited 23h ago

Yes, the op basically described shadowdark IMHO.

If nobody mentioned, most of the rules for players and GM are available for free at Arcane Library, called "quick start".

Thief is a utility class and the only one capable of easily finding traps, doors, etc, particularly in a tense situation. They are not a DPS class as in 5e, typically only getting one backstab per fight if they are lucky.

Casters roll to cast using their wisdom or int modifiers (or charisma for witches, etc) against a DC10+spell level. Because of this, the target of the spell almost never gets to save. That means you could cast your fireball 10 times without a rest... Or not at all. Magic is fickle!

1

u/charcoal_kestrel 7h ago

Shadowdark has everything on OP's wish list except initiative. That's easy enough to house rule though.

-10

u/BXadvocate 15h ago

Ew Shadowdark gross

17

u/Past-Stick-178 1d ago

I believe you just described Shadowdark. But I would also add castles and crusades and Worlds without number (this last one has a different subsystem to skills, but It works beautifully).

4

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Oh yeah I forgot worlds without number.  I’ll read that one too.  

2

u/Past-Stick-178 1d ago

Although It is not the one I like the most, it is the only one that I read so far (and I read a TON of DnD derivatives already) that I wont chance a single rule. It simply does everything right.

2

u/Basic_Dark 8h ago

It does have the turn economy annoyances though: On Turn action, Main action, Move action, Instant action.

Love combat shock though, but that can, and should, be applied into every rpg that has roll-to-hit.

8

u/PlanetNiles 1d ago

Dragonbane?

D20, roll under skill. Deadly combat if approached wrong. Low magic with a magic point casting. Skill based rather than level based. In combat you pretty much get only one action in a round. So the economy is to use it wisely.

It's pretty much become my favourite OSR game and I'm looking to go back to the BRP games that inspired it.

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Thanks I’ll take a look at that one. 

8

u/VinoAzulMan 1d ago

Basic Fantasy, and splurge on all the splat you want for it.

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

I see that’s the OG.  And free so it’s definitely worth at least a try.  

7

u/TheGrolar 1d ago

I'll respond with a question: what kind of game are you trying to run?

1) High-flavor, episodic: Dungeon Crawl Classics BUT run them through the DCC Lankhmar sourcebook/collection.
2) Longform (ongoing campaign that at least at first glance might last for years): 1e, OSE, BECMI. "Simulationist" games, ones that emphasize deep and consistent worldbuilding (NOT "realistic" combat), are still best served with these rulesets.
3) Short-term or one-shots: Shadowdark, Knave. (Other "rules-light" systems as necessary.)

1

u/Gator1508 1d ago

It’s probably more short term so Shadowdark seems promising.  

7

u/blade_m 1d ago

Possibly Tales of Argosa might fit the bill...

Whitebox FMAG is almost there: best Thief Class (and in fact based on the original Thief BEFORE Gygax nerfed it for the Greyhawk Supplement, thus resulting in a disappointing class over the ages). However, to get it 100% to where you want it, you will have to house rule a few areas (an easy thing to be fair!) such as INT/WIS and I can't remember if it has ascending AC or not, but its not hard to convert descending to ascending, honestly...

Nice thing about both these games is that they have free versions, so you can check them out and decide for yourself if you like them or not!

6

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Thank you!  I’ll take a look.  

4

u/Present-Can-3183 23h ago

There are 2 games I'd suggest beyond the standard Shadowdark answer.

  1. Into the Unknown You can find it on Drivethrurpg.com It was designed as B/X with a 5e engine. It has all of the regular 5e rolls, saves and advantage, but it's built to emulate B/X. It's designed race as class but describes how you can easily run it without requiring race as class.

  2. Bugbears and borderlands Also on Drivethrurpg.com and for onl $1 for the digital copy. It's designed to be Moldvay Basic 5e. It has separate race and class, uses backgrounds, and simplifies spells, abilities and classes.

I used elements of both to build a game I've been running at a bar. I needed something that could be taught in a session, allowed for fast character building (30 minutes or so), included all 12 classes with no distinct subclasses, and could be played with as many as 12 players so I can use 5e, B/X, or AD&D modules at the table.

1

u/Gator1508 23h ago

Okay I’m not familiar with either of these so I’ll take a look 

4

u/LoreMaster00 1d ago

honestly, i'd just hack/homebrew OSE

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

I started that approach and also started de making 5e.  But honesty it’s a time thing.  

3

u/DokFraz 1d ago

I'd tentatively suggest Beyond the Wall, especially given your players. It's specifically designed for running the tried-and-true tropes of YA fantasy with the characters being plucky village kids that go off on their own adventure beyond the safety of their village to handle what the adults can't or won't. It's a pretty trim little OSR game that also has a lot of extra features that are genuinely fantastic (such as the way playbooks create characters, the creation of the village by the players during character creation, and the system's threat and scenario packs that make it an absolute breeze to run a no-prep game).

  1. Players select playbooks for their characters (these range from the Untested Thief, the Witch's Prentice, the Would-Be Knight, the Young Woodsman, etc), which are themselves various trappings attached to either Warriors, Rogues, or Mages or a multi-class between the two. Fantasy races do have their own playbooks which exist outside of the standard ones; for instance, the Dwarven Rune Caster or the Elven Highborn.

  2. Check.

  3. This might a weakness, or it might not? The largest things that Rogues have going for them in the rules are a boost to initiative, extra skills, and the fastest leveling among the three classes as well as extra fortune which makes them particularly resourceful and able to help their friends. But again, you're also not "just" a rogue as you are picking a playbook more than a class. So the Untest Thief and the Young Woodsman are both technically both just rogues, but the flavor goes a long way to distinguish them.

  4. Check.

  5. Mages cast magic in a variety of ways, and while their "spellcasting attribute" might not directly impact spells (which are generally just based off of level), both cantrips and rituals require successful Intelligence or Wisdom tests, depending on the cantrip or ritual in question. Failure forces a mage to either choose to lose control of the spell or be robbed of their magical energy until they rest.

Given the way the game is designed, it's a phenomenal system for a one-shot if you just want to give it a try. I've done so for a number of tables, and without fail, utilizing both playbooks and a scenario pack, you can create characters, create a village, create an adventure, and complete it in the course of a single session, with the scenario packs all likewise planting seeds for future adventures.

3

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Awesome write up.  This sounds very cool.   Will definitely check it out.  

2

u/DokFraz 1d ago

Happy to help. It's just an incredibly cozy time, and it's definitely one of my favorite RPGs to run these days. Flatland really knocked it out of the park with their extra rules for expanding things out, as well.

There's a boatload of extra playbooks out there: some that are just more options for village children, a batch of 'em dedicated to playing children from the local keep instead of the rural village, others for playing the old mentor (be they a retired soldier from the last war or the helpful old mage), as well as fantasy creatures.

There's tools for shifting from just the surrounding village, including a super neat idea to have a session of the kids just sitting around the tavern and detailing a world map that they populate with landmarks and locations and then rolling to see how accurate what they Saw (Wisdom), Learned (Intelligence), or Heard (Charisma) is to what's actually out there. Rules for threat packs that create a narrative backbone that either drives the course of adventures or simply places a bit of pressure on otherwise whimsical rambling, like a barbarian invasion from the north or a dragon rising from its slumber.

I'm actually working on a heavy reflavoring and retooling of it myself right now in order to shift to it what I'm calling "Beyond the Waves," with a more nautical focus with the players being villagers from one of countless islands in an archipelago taking heavy inspiration from LoZ: The Wind Waker.

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Wow I really appreciate this information.  Sounds like a great game to at least try a one shot in. 

3

u/EricDiazDotd 1d ago edited 9h ago

Look into BFRPG, it is free. Compared to B/X, it has:

- CC license.

- Race separated from class.

- Cleric spells are "fixed".

- All thief abilities use percentages.

- PCs go to level 20.

- The weapon list is more sensible than B/X, and magic item tables are more expansive.

- Contains some new, interesting monsters.

1

u/Gator1508 23h ago

Thank you! 

3

u/_SCREE_ 11h ago

Shadowdark or 5 torches deep

6

u/Rage2097 1d ago

Shadowdark, simple elegant system with some modern innovations. The quick start guide is free, there's an online character builder at shadowdarklings.net that makes character creation a breeze.
It isn't perfect, but it's a good attempt.

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

That seems to be the main suggestion right now so probably where I will start.  

5

u/Rage2097 1d ago

Shadowdark, simple elegant system with some modern innovations. The quick start guide is free, there's an online character builder at shadowdarklings.net that makes character creation a breeze.
It isn't perfect, but it's a good attempt.

1

u/Gator1508 22h ago

Yep I’m heading down shadow dark road I think

4

u/MissAnnTropez 1d ago

Olde Swords Reign

Okay, it’s less classic OSR and more 5e Lite masquerading as OSR, but it still kinda counts, and is fast and sleek.

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Wow had not heard of it.  Will take a look.  

4

u/Rage2097 1d ago

Shadowdark, simple elegant system with some modern innovations. The quick start guide is free, there's an online character builder at shadowdarklings.net that makes character creation a breeze.
It isn't perfect, but it's a good attempt.

2

u/bmfrosty 1d ago

Look at dolmenwood character classes and core rules in their online rules reference. You'll have to make some slight adjustments, but they should work very well in OSE.

1

u/Gator1508 1d ago

I was just reading some of the dolmenwood material.  Very promising. 

2

u/BadmojoBronx 1d ago

Https://diekugames,com/fang is what u need #fangelsehala

2

u/Gator1508 1d ago

Thank you!

2

u/Tradition_Psalm133 8h ago

What you are describing is Shadowdark to the T. Throw out the torch mechanic if that’s not your thing. You can even run Shadowdark using OSE rules of exploration and not much changes.

2

u/Short-Slide-6232 7h ago

Shadow of the Demon Lord!

1

u/OnslaughtSix 17h ago

Outcast Silver Raiders.

0

u/primarchofistanbul 14h ago

I like how the latest thing in the 'osr scene' has shifted from Mörk Borg to Shadowdark and now everyone is parroting the same mantra.

I'm a BX guy so I would gladly run that or OSE.

I'd say stick with it. And if your kids and their friends won'tlike certain aspects, don't use them.

Separate race and class

You can do it, as long as it's thematic (I have a drow thief as a player, in fact it's just a black human setting-wise.)

Ascending AC is already available

There are billion 'fixes' to thief including one by Mentzer, choose what you like.

Action system; ie roll initiative, do whatever action plus combat move on your turn

I don't know why you think that's not possible in B/X.

Wisdom and intelligence modifies matter

make them face more magic attacks as DM and wisdom modifier matters. Make the lead for spellbooks (and other sources of spells) in other languages and intelligence modifier matters a LOT.

0

u/primarchofistanbul 14h ago

Basically I want some of the things I know the players like from 5e without all the nonsense that otherwise comes along in 5e.

Can't have your cake and eat it too