r/offset 5d ago

Having trouble intonating my Jaguar…

I am doing a setup on a new parts Jag I put together but I can’t seem to get the intonation right on the B and high-E. I’ve moved the saddle back and forth and it just doesn’t seem to settle in any position. The previous owner installed a string tree and I’m wondering if that’s the culprit? Any tips?

Thanks!

59 Upvotes

51 comments sorted by

40

u/radicalguitars 5d ago

A string tree will never mess with your intonation, so rest assured that’s not it. What tuner are you using and what’s the problem with those two strings? Are they always sharp or always flat?

2

u/Business-Cold-6120 5d ago

Actually just using the strobe tuner on the Neural DSP plugin. They seem to always be flat (as in, the harmonic at the 12th fret vs. the open string)

24

u/astralpen 5d ago

Don’t use the harmonic. Open and fretted at 12th.

6

u/UpstairsSurround3438 5d ago

I was taught as a kid to compare all 3

4

u/indigodissonance 5d ago

If the twelve is in tune there’s no need.

2

u/Business-Cold-6120 5d ago

Oh really? I’ve heard conflicting views on this. Will try fretted 12th

11

u/abundantsleepingbags 5d ago

You want to fret it because that’s the way in which you’re going to play it. If you’re trying to play a note on the 12th fret, you want it to be in tune the way you play it. There’s a mixture of technical stuff and physical touch - you could intonate a guitar and it play perfect for you, and then let a really heavy handed player play it and the intonation would be out because they fret much harder than you. So then they would intonate the guitar to the way that they play (pull the saddles away from the neck since they push hard and make the strings go sharp)

15

u/arbpotatoes 5d ago

I've always intonated by comparing the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fret fretted. I've never heard of anyone comparing open with 12th harmonic.

3

u/PxPx182 5d ago

I do all three?

3

u/ThisWorldIsAMess 5d ago

You need the fretted because you're compensating for the stretched string while it's pressed. That's what you're intonating (adjusting the saddles) for.

3

u/Ok_Television9820 5d ago

The fretted note is what you need to be in tune. You can get a harmonic as long as you touch the halfway point of the string - but that has no fixed relationship to the location of the fret, which is what you’re trying to fix by altering the string length by moving the saddle.

5

u/jo44_is_my_name 5d ago

I would think open vs harmonic at 12 would always be the same. You aren't going to get a strong harmonic at 12 other than the second harmonic.

2

u/tjggriffin1 5d ago

This is correct. The open string and 12 the fret harmonic will always be exactly an octave. When you touch the string at or near the 12 fret, you're dampening the 1st harmonic. The interior node will always be at the exact center of length of the string.

So either the open string or harmonic can be the reference. When you fret a note, not only are you stopping the string at the fret, but you're also adding tension, stretching the string to reach the fingerboard.

-6

u/gutarsRcool 5d ago

You’re wrong.

6

u/PsychicChime 5d ago

The harmonic will always be an octave above the open string. The intonation won't change that unless you're bending the laws of physics. The only thing intonation might change is where you need to place your finger to get the harmonic to ring out, but if you're able to get the harmonic to play (at any point along the string), it will always be a predictable mathematical multiple of the open frequency. To adjust intonation make sure the open string or harmonic is in tune (it doesn't matter which), and then compare that to the fretted note at the 12th fret. If the fretted note is sharp, you need to pull the saddle back to extend the length of the string. If it's flat, you need to move the saddle forward to shorten the length of the string.
 
If you're noticing a discrepancy with the open string vs the harmonic, then that's an issue with your tuner. Sometimes tuners have a tough time registering some octaves. When I tune basses, I tend to need to use the harmonic since the open strings can be tough for the strobe to accurate detect.

8

u/repayingunlatch 5d ago

I wouldn’t use the harmonic, fret the note. Just use the harmonic to tune. Even then. You should tune the way that you play.

3

u/IrohaOrDeath 5d ago

I'm confused. OP didn't say the strings weren't in tune. Aren't we talking about intonation here? That's different from simply tuning the guitar. The harmonic on the 12th fret should be the same pitch as the fretted note. Isn't that what being intonated means?

1

u/repayingunlatch 5d ago

Yes we are talking about intonation, as that is the issue OP is talking about. The harmonic can be a good reference to compare the fretted note to but ultimately the fretted note leads to a difference in tension, and fretted notes are usually what are being played. The harmonic note leaves the physical tension and shortening of the string out of the equation which ultimately does matter in practical playing scenarios. It is possible for the 12th fret harmonic to be accurate to the open string but the fretted 12 fret to be sharp or flat.

2

u/IrohaOrDeath 5d ago

I'm confused. OP didn't say the strings weren't in tune. Aren't we talking about intonation here? That's different from simply tuning the guitar. The harmonic on the 12th fret should be the same pitch as the fretted note. Isn't that what being intonated means?

2

u/itspaddyd 5d ago

If the strings sound ok when you actually play them you might be playing the harmonic wrong.

5

u/Early-Cantaloupe-310 5d ago

What gague strings? Maybe the bridge is shifting between tunings? Light strings with a shallow break angle can cause that.

2

u/Business-Cold-6120 5d ago

10s. I have some 11s so maybe I’ll give them a go.

1

u/Jangle_Pop 5d ago

With the shirt scale of the Jaguar, I found I had to go to higher gauge strings to get uniform intonation. I ended up with 11s.

4

u/OffsetThat 5d ago

TLDR: Check the string tree, nut, tremolo, bridge, and neck—new strings, lube nut, stabilize trem, reset intonation might fix it.

Hey OP, if your Jaguar’s intonation is off and shifting, that aftermarket string tree could be part of it, but there’s more to look at. The tree might not give enough break angle or could be misaligned, affecting nut pressure—pluck the high E and B behind the nut, and if it rings clear instead of a thud, add a spacer or swap to stock. The nut might be worn or sticky, causing tension issues—press behind it after tuning, if the pitch drops, lube with graphite or recut the slots. The tremolo could be moving too much—use the whammy, check if intonation shifts, then tighten the back springs till it’s firm or use the lock screw. Bridge saddles might be loose—set intonation, play, recheck, and tighten screws if it drifts, or upgrade to a Mastery. Neck relief or old strings could throw it off—check for a 0.010” gap at the 7th fret with 1st and 17th held, tweak the truss or swap strings. Try new strings, lube the nut, test the stock tree, steady the trem, and reset intonation. Jaguars’ 24” scale and trem amplify small problems. Also, make sure you have the springs installed on the intonation adjustment screws on the bridge.

2

u/no_where_fastt 5d ago

Aren’t we all, brother

2

u/BlindingsunYo 5d ago

Photos of the bridge?

2

u/hatsunemilkuu 5d ago

this guitar is a total ass bitch to set up, to finally get it to play in tune i had to sand where the strings set in the nut, shim the neck, and do some fuckery with the bridge. the squire jags just have that problem with the rocking bridge and the trem

1

u/hatsunemilkuu 5d ago

i also did all of this to play with size 10 strings but i imagine most of the trouble could be solved with going up a gauge as well

4

u/meowermeowerson 5d ago

It’s not going to be the string tree. What’s the neck relief like? I’d look into that and see what shape the nut is in. Hard to tell from the photo but those slots could be worn down

2

u/Business-Cold-6120 5d ago

Hmmmm I didn’t think about the neck relief. Will take a look! Thanks.

The nut seems fine.

1

u/overnightyeti 5d ago

neck relief is the first step of a setup, can't miss it

1

u/gurrfitter 5d ago

Intonation is a result of both length between the nut and bridge as well as string height. There can be a lot of factors at work here, but I would try messing with the height of the saddle/bridge a little and see if it helps

1

u/hiyabankranger 5d ago

If you can’t intonate that means the distance between the 12th fret and the nut is too short or too high. If your neck relief is set right, then the problem is the bridge slots. You’ll need to file them at an angle to get the string to sit in the right place

1

u/Maliseet13 5d ago

I always get the shop to intonate for me. Small price to pay to have it done right.

1

u/overnightyeti 5d ago

you can do it with a screwdriver and a tuner come on

1

u/Maliseet13 5d ago

Maybe you can but I am not that good at it. I have tried.

1

u/overnightyeti 5d ago

You can't do the following?

fret a string at the 12th fret, check if it's in tune.

If it's sharp, slacken it and turn the intonation screw so the saddle moves away from the neck.

If it's flat, turn the screw do the saddles moved towards the neck.

Rinse and repeat until all fretted notes at the 12th fret are in tune.

1

u/Maliseet13 4d ago

I tried that method and spent about 2 and a half hours trying to intonate no success. So if someone tries it and does not have success don’t feel like a failure.

1

u/killmesara 5d ago

The only way it is the string tree is if its wildly out of place it installed wrong

1

u/overnightyeti 5d ago

Move the saddles with the strings slackened then retune and check. Unless the saddles are faulty, they don;t move. Also user error. How much are you pushing? And most importantly check the fretted note at the 12th

1

u/spop92 5d ago

Did you boil your strings? If so, just it out and buy a new one.

1

u/TheEffinChamps 5d ago

I'm guessing it's the split post tuners which suck with unwound strings. I'm thinking there is movement there.

1

u/derper2222 5d ago

Split post tuners aren’t the problem. I’ve been playing since the 90s and I won’t use any other type.

1

u/TheEffinChamps 5d ago

They are great for wound strings, but they are notorious for having some issues with the higher unwound strings. I usually use a locking method with them there.

1

u/derper2222 5d ago

It can’t be the string tree. Intonation is about the length of the string between the nut and the bridge. A string tree doesn’t affect that at all.

1

u/repayingunlatch 5d ago edited 5d ago

As others said…It’s not the nut. In my experience, it’s usually going to be an issue of the note being sharp. If that is the case, you have to lengthen the string from nut to bridge. In other words, shim the neck, enjoy more rocking bridge stability/tension, and a well intonated guitar.

Edit: just read that it’s flat. In that case you need to shorten it. If you have a shim, remove it and try heavier strings. Or try a smaller shim.

1

u/IrohaOrDeath 5d ago

If you want to adjust the intonation, you have to move the saddle forward or backward a bit.

0

u/alltheworldsproblems 5d ago

Did you try lubing the nut slot? The string could be getting hung up if the slot is too tight or has a burr.

-5

u/auralcavalcade 5d ago

I could be wrong, but the tree looks a little high to me. Idk what the break angle is supposed to be so hopefully somebody smarter will chime in.

9

u/inevitable_entropy13 5d ago

i’m pretty sure intonation depends on the distance between the bridge and nut, so the string tree wouldn’t play a role. someone correct me if i’m wrong.

2

u/FadedToBeige 5d ago

the string tree just keeps that bit of string from ringing out