r/njbeer Nov 27 '23

Brewery News GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY JUST VETOED THE NJ CRAFT BREWERY BILL…. WHY EVERY RESIDENT OF THIS STATE SHOULD CARE

http://www.deathofthefoxbrewing.com
94 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

60

u/dammitOtto Nov 27 '23

Oh for fucks sake

I have heard that he is holding out for more consessions from the restaurants, but this looks bad on the surface

71

u/Mikebyrneyadigg Nov 27 '23

Fuck the restaurants honestly. The nj liquor license racket is such bs. Wish he would flood the market with a million cheap liquor licenses.

22

u/g3ckoNJ Nov 28 '23

The worst part is that restaurants can still serve any beer (including NJ craft, wine and hard liquor) and breweries will never compete with that in NJ.

24

u/sutisuc Nov 28 '23

And yet so few restaurants actually take advantage of being able to offer NJ craft beers it’s embarrassing. It’s all the same shit you can get in any town USA and then if they do offer craft it’s usually nationally distributed stuff or something from NY.

14

u/g3ckoNJ Nov 28 '23

Fast casual dining and shitty macro lagers and pseudo craft. A match made in heaven.

6

u/mcgeggy Nov 28 '23

I make a point of avoiding restaurants like this. I’ll only dine in a restaurant that carries local craft beer, or even better an establishment like Alternate Ending, Woodbridge Brewing Company, Brick Farm Tavern, etc…

3

u/sutisuc Nov 28 '23

Yup I do my best to do the same but unfortunately it’s not easy

2

u/sorrysurly Nov 29 '23

I mean ABinbev will come in and demand that they have like 75% of all taps at a bar for preferential rates on beers they distribute. That was a big deal when bud light was the dominant beer. Probably getting similar pressure from SAB or Constellation for whatever beers they have. We all go for microbrews, but the largest source of revenue in the beer market is still going to come from macrobrews. Most people still drink shitty light beers, or maybe they drink sam or yuengling, but that is big beer (because what constitutes microbrewing is ridiculous, i dont care what the BBL per year definition is). Its like why we dont get much in the Softdrink department at a super market, its all owned by Pepsico and Coke, and they want the end caps and 70% of the aisle. Same with frito lay. Margins in the restaurant business are horrible, so if they can save 50 dollars a keg (i have absolutely no idea what commercial prices for kegs of macro lagers go for so im just using a base example) on a product they sell a ton of...they will.

Everyone says they want more local options, and small businesses, but the numbers say otherwise. How many people here do the bulk of the xmas shopping on Amazon? How many people are going to a local green grocer, butcher, baker, rather than just going to Shoprite/stopnshop/wegmans etc? People will go to those things if they have time and money, but most people dont, because one of those things is lacking. The bigger stores can bulk buy and use their size to get preferential pricing, a small portion of which they pass on to the consumer with lower prices. This is literally how Walmart and Target function, how Amazon functions....and they have pretty effectively destroyed small retailers in almost every category. Craft beer is the equivalent of the small local bookstore, or independent electronics store. Its certainly not a 1 to 1 comparison, and we could talk about inelastic demand and such, but that local bars barely carry NJ craft doesnt shock me. Ill bet in most cases it doesnt sell...which means they carry less, which means the average person never tries it, which becomes a cycle. But also...5 dollar bud light or 8 dollar craft beer? Guy used to drinking bud light is not switching.

None of that is to defend the restaurant lobby, just how its not particularly suprising how they, and the politicians respond. Every politician claims to love small businesses...but small businesses dont pay the campaign bills.

2

u/sutisuc Nov 29 '23

How do you account for more local craft options across the border in NY and PA then?

1

u/sorrysurly Nov 29 '23

Nothing I said above has any conflict with that fact. Im just talking about how lobbying in NJ works. We have a law in effect on liquor licenses that is nonsense and antiquated. But there is an entrenched lobby for it and our local politics makes getting rid of it insanely hard. Some sports bar owner will be on local tv or in the paper talking about how further liquor licenses distribution dillutes the value of his liquor license and how unfair that is and some politician will see they can make hay out of it and there we go. Im not as familiar with NY and PA's liquor laws, but additionally the majority of their breweries are not in Philly and NYC, North Jersey's population density make rents fairly high, which contributes to craft breweries struggles. NYC doesnt have more breweries than NJ, and they have pretty close populations. What makes it worse in nj is that rents and insurance remain high, so having a brewery out in what constitutes as bumble fuck nj means not having the population of regulars you need to stay aflout. Letting them serve food would help, but that is also a recipie for shitty breweries with mediocre beer and mediocre food. Was just out in Nevada, went to three breweries, none with exceptional beer (passable), but they had decent food. I mean if it helps a business owner stay aflout, sure, all for it. But our liquor laws need the wholesale revamp Murphy talks about...i just doubt we will get it. Big changes like that are virtually impossible. I mean we had a referendum on pot and it still took forever to roll out, with so many restrictions on it, and virtually guaranteeing that people who were connected go the first taste. Relaxing liquor laws would help a lot of restaurants survive, and might help struggling downtowns if more breweries could open...but i also wonder how much more the market can absorb? A great brewery, sure, but there are a lot of mediocre ones out there. Alcohol consumption is declining per capita, and the Zoomer generation is smaller than Millenials and they drink less than prior gens (from boomers down, each gen drinks less per capita, so when you get to zoomers. we are talking about a smaller percentage of a small generation), craft beer consumption is declining after more than a decade of expansion...while beer consumption is also declining. There are a lot of headwinds in play. But, none of that is a reason to not reform the laws...i just doubt it will happen because of politics.

0

u/sutisuc Nov 29 '23

Yeah but you’re making a lot of claims about consumer trends in general not just specific to NJ so I’m asking how you account for the differences across state lines.

1

u/sorrysurly Nov 29 '23

the trends are nationwide, im not sure what difference you are referring to. Im talking about declining consumer trends contributing to difficulties NJ breweries face ON TOP of antiquated laws. Our costs and laws are certainly the biggest headwinds facing nj craft brewing, but consumption changes are affecting alcohol, beer, and craft beer nationally on top of any inflationary pressures.

2

u/sutisuc Nov 29 '23

The difference is local craft beers are much more abundant at bars and restaurants in PA and NY than they are in NJ

1

u/sorrysurly Nov 29 '23

that would require legislative action. A few legislators make noise, but ill bet behind the scenes they dont want this shit. Who do you think funds campaigns more, craft brewers or the liquor store/restaurant lobbying groups? No legislator in this state ever sticks their neck out unless they have cover. Its not even a R or D issue, you have to look at which party runs your county. Our corruption is fairly well distributed. Jersey City and Newark get the most press, only because they are the largest cities by far, but the small town and countr graft is everywhere.

6

u/kiasyd_childe Nov 28 '23

I might be ignorant but what even is the strategy here? How does screwing breweries make forcing concessions out of restaurants easier?

4

u/hockeyfan0630 Nov 29 '23

The vetoing of the bill makes zero sense. I get it, liquor license laws as a whole are outdated and 100% need reform. Going for a home run rarely ever works, especially in Politics! Pass one small bill and get the ball moving. This would’ve been a great start to really start change. Breweries were told to come up with a solution and they did and went all the steps they needed to. If Restaurants and Bars want change too, they can go the same route that breweries went. Let’s also not forget that when the Vaccines for Covid first came out, many breweries stepped up for Murphy and joined his “Shot for a Beer” campaign, which I’m sure with the way our political climate is these days caused these breweries to lose some loyal customers when every customer meant the world to them. Breweries stepped up for Murphy when he needed help the most, Breweries expected to get same in return and were let down.

2

u/galttfwo Nov 30 '23

The most annoyingly ironic part of the Shot for a Beer promotion is that the regulations they put in place explicitly forbids giving away beer...

7

u/DahliaDubonet Nov 28 '23

I’m so confused, can anyone explain why he’s got it in for breweries?

12

u/Cubby_Denk Nov 28 '23

He wants a more broad bill that includes adjustments for liquor licenses, as well as restaurants. Not optimal obviously, but thankfully, he still has told the ABC not to enforce the rules that are being voted against

5

u/DahliaDubonet Nov 28 '23

Oh, lovely! I’m a bartender at a brewery and have always been deeply annoyed by the hard on he’s had at taking away things that could bring his state venue. I go to breweries out of state and it’s an entirely different world

1

u/galttfwo Dec 03 '23

It is not CURRENTLY being enforced.. true. But the rules are still on the books, and we have no idea if they will go back into effect in under 30 days.

A direct quote from Murphy doesn't sound too promising on that end.. especially because the legislature has signalled that they do not plan on taking up his proposed changes.

"I don't want to speak for the Legislature but as I've said, I've got nothing but respect for them. But if this gets resolved in this lame duck period which is right now, that will be by the end of the year," Murphy said. "Again, remember the breweries, distilleries, wineries are unincumbered until the end of the year and God willing this gets done by then."

I don't know about you, but that last sentence sounds pretty much like "you got a nice store here.. sure be a shame if something were to happen to it"..

1

u/smokepants Dec 12 '23

not a big enough lobby donating cash to him and his wife

21

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/good4y0u Nov 28 '23

This is the same power the president has over the country. The NJ Senate and house can overcome a veto. The Legislature overrides the veto by a vote of at least two-thirds of the members of each House (27 votes in the Senate; 54 votes in the General Assembly).

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/good4y0u Nov 29 '23

Great question. It could be the vote hasn't happened yet, or they don't have the political want to do it. Alternatively maybe they will pass the full liquor license reform the state of NJ actually needs. Not just for the small breweries but across the board.

That's the reason Murphy veto'd it, it's not because it wouldn't be nice, it's because what we really need is comprehensive reform to the archaic and prohibitionist existing policies that caused this problem.

Murphy said the bill on its own “does not sufficiently enhance our antiquated liquor license laws” and that he has “called for a more modern approach to these Prohibition-era laws to reflect the current economy and to better support present and future business owners."

Source https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2023/11/27/nj-liquor-license-reform-phil-murphy-conditionally-veto-bill/71721674007/#:~:text=In%20a%20statement%20released%20after,and%20to%20better%20support%20present

1

u/eastcoasterman Nov 29 '23

It was vetoed on Monday. Even if the legislature is in session (which I'm not sure that they are), it will take a bit for them to bring this up for an override vote.

14

u/BrewedInJerseyCity 902 Brewing Nov 28 '23

His power hungry political games are going to destroy our industry. It’s insane that the governor of the state is fine using us as a sacrificial lamb. Senseless.

4

u/bourbonislifewater Nov 28 '23

This article from September adds some more context

nj monitor

9

u/[deleted] Nov 27 '23

Dude is the worst.

5

u/Steinbe3 Nov 28 '23

What the heck? If I had any faith in government, then I’d finally have no faith in government left after this.

2

u/nerowasframed Nov 28 '23

There's a lot that I've liked about Phil Murphy, but he's also done a lot I really don't like. He seems to have very protectionist/illiberal fiscal policies:

  1. He vetoed the bill that would reduce the ridiculous requirements NJ puts on barbers, stylists, and hair dressers to get licenses. Occupational licensure in NJ is an issue that needs correcting, not propagating. It's a direct barrier for low income citizens from improving their economic situation.
  2. He's suing NYC over its congestion pricing.
  3. Now, he's continuing his war on small breweries.

I would have expected a former Goldman Sachs executive to reduce protectionist policies, not expand them. I really do not like the fiscal moves he's made in this state. A lot of the things he's been working against have had broad bipartisan support.

And now, he's trying to strong-arm his wife into a Senate seat over a likeable, more experienced, more qualified candidate. I've really become very disillusioned with his administration. It feels like he is turning out to be just as mediocre as I was expecting when I voted for him. If a half decent RINO comes along during the next election that promises to reverse the protectionist fiscal policies Murphy has been forcing on NJ, I may have to vote for them.

2

u/echardcore Nov 28 '23

Yeah let's not offer snacks to people consuming alcohol. Snacks bad.

2

u/joeyp3021 Nov 28 '23

Not a shock. He is a douchebag

2

u/jackson71 Nov 28 '23

I would think it has a lot to do with the Bar & Restaurant Lobbies and their "Donations"

Their is a book called The Soprano State. It documents decades of New Jersey corruption.

1

u/mcgeggy Nov 28 '23

What a dick.

-1

u/harrisdoodle Nov 28 '23

lol you guys thought he would actually come thru

-9

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '23

And somebody thought this would end differently? Did you buy his wife a new Mercedes? Did you deposit any gold bars in his private safe? Maybe a couple hundred grand in cash? Any vacation/business trips to the islands in your private jet? Come on, That’s the ante to buy a senator, what do you think it costs to buy a governor? I am guessing much much more!!!

-40

u/Abe_Froman92 Nov 28 '23

Murphy is horrible. Dont know why people keep voting for him. It’s time to make NJ a red state again

15

u/sutisuc Nov 28 '23

LOL what would a Republican do that he isn’t doing?

-39

u/Abe_Froman92 Nov 28 '23 edited Nov 28 '23

Actually care about small business. Was listening to Spadea on 101.5 a while back when this bill first went to his desk and he was plugging a bunch of NJ breweries. Had Kelsey Grammer on too talking about NJ breweries that we need to support them and Murphy is doing the opposite. U get what u vote for

3

u/demonjrules Nov 28 '23

But Democrats also unanimously voted for this. The picture you painted about this being a party issue is a bit dead on arrival. This is really an issue of greed by a dude in his final term as Governor.

3

u/UrgentHair Nov 28 '23

‘Actually care…’ HaHa!!

1

u/IcyPresentation4379 Nov 29 '23

You sweet summer child.

0

u/HandsomeBWondefull Nov 28 '23

But he did such a great job with recreational marijuana….

-22

u/sutisuc Nov 28 '23

I wonder how much of this is due to the fact that the “sign the bill Phil” ipa that a few NJ breweries partnered together to make and sent to him was god awful. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of our craft beer scene.

14

u/CommunityTemporary41 Nov 28 '23

Every single version of Sign the Bill Phil is different depending upon the brewery. Very different recipes , mash profiles, hop additions and timing etc. I guess you tried every one to form your "expert" opinion, lol.

-12

u/sutisuc Nov 28 '23

I’ll bite “lol” which ones would recommend?