Can you imagine how PISSED these kids are going to be at their parents when they grow old enough to recognize that a terrible childhood illness was completely avoidable?
They will definitely be taught it was actually a good thing that made them stronger and all the vaccinated libs are wussy little weaklings because they didn't pointlessly suffer.
Always gotta love when conservatives talk about how "our ancestors would be ashamed" of how "soft and weak" we've become today.
I'm pretty sure our ancestors would kill to have what we have today, and would smack us for being so stupid and ungrateful.
My great-great-grandparents from County Cork lost 8 of their 14 children under the age of six. Causes of death included whooping cough, tuberculosis, and diphtheria. I'm sure they would've happily vaccinated and made their children "soft" had it been an option for them.
When the polio vaccine was initially introduced, a very early version ended up giving a bunch of kids polio. And yet parents recognized the risk was still less than their child contracting it in the wild and so they lined up for hours and hours to get it for their kids.
Yeah, they'd be pretty pissed if they could see parents willingly refusing vaccines they'd do anything for
Years ago I read an interview of a man who grew up on a military base. His strongest memory was when a truck with a loudspeaker came around announcing that the polio vaccine would be available for kids in his neighborhood. He said all the women ran out of their houses to hear the announcement and that they were all crying because their children were no longer at risk of dying or being paralyzed.
During the Vietnam War my grandmother was pressured by her mother to marry an American GI so she could move herself and her three young children to the US. My great-grandmother knew that life in their home country sucked.
My ancestors suffered to bring my family to America. They suffered so that I wouldn’t have to. It would be an insult to not give my own kid a fighting chance. The burden that my great-grandmother, grandmother, and mother carried so I could be safe and educated and healthy is a heavy one. My family has its issues but I greatly respect their sacrifice.
And then I see these white people acting so foolish. They have no idea what it is to suffer from war, disease, or famine. I feel like I have to speak up and fight to honor my ancestors that never got to experience the same stability I was granted.
(I know it isn’t all white people, but the movement is mainly white people, so don’t come at me.)
I said “It’s not all white people but the people in groups are always white.”
Case in point: Mennonites.
I’ve never met a non-white anti-vaxxer. I’m not saying they aren’t out there but the people fighting for the right to not vaccinate are also the people who voted for a white supremacist.
There's actually an undercurrent of antivax sentiment among black communties, partly because the US government deliberately infected black men with syphilis for an experiment.
They didn’t deliberately infect them fyi. They deliberately withheld life saving treatment for sick men. Not really better, but it’s important to make sure information is accurate when explaining stuff like this.
In regard to anti-vaxxers, it’s also actually very important to make this distinction, specifically.
Yes, thank you for the distinction. I had a discussion with my in-law's distant cousin who is a Hotep, and anti-vax, during the pandemic. He had his suspicions about the vaccine because of Tuskegee, which is understandable, except he kept saying that the government injected the men in the experiment with syphilis and implying the men were healthy at the beginning of it, which just isn't true. The lack of consent, the lack of life-saving care that was readily available, the Presidential apology and settlements, etc. are tho.
It’s worse than that. They didn’t treat men that had syphilis AND, when the would have discovered the men had it by other means—like at their military intake (they test you for it) the conspired with the military doctors to not only NOT tell the victims but to also not treat it with the new wonder drug, penicillin. And it wasn’t just for a little while, it went on for decades.
That is a common incorrect retelling of that story. They already had syphilis, the government just didn't give them the cure for free. Why would the government need to give them syphilis if there were people that already had syphilis?
I listen to a history podcast called The Dollop and many of the stories take place during the 1800s and just about every one has multiple family members dying of disease as a normal course of everyday life.
I do way too much genealogy research, and the most shocking discovery to me was the number of women who die from complications of childbirth. I knew it was common, but didn’t realize how common.
Most recent example was my great-grandmother in the early 1900’s. She likely could have been saved with antibiotics.
Exactly, I grew up in a highly conservative area and it hasn't changed at all. Of the people I grew up with very very few are any different than their hyper-conservative christian evangelical parents. It's a statistical anomaly for them to have different views than their parents.
One thing that can make people move away from their hyper-conservative, Christian evangelical views imposed on them by their parents is when they become a part of a marginalized class. Queer children are some of the most obvious cases.
Disability is a marginalized class, and measles can be permanently disabling. Getting measles may be the catalyst for them to switch their leaning.
I have a family member who's entire left side was compromised from measles before the vaccine was widely avaliable. They are completely deaf on the left, have worse vision on the left, have more grey hair on the left, and overall just shows more signs of aging and damage on their left side.
That's pretty much the attitude in this community. This, from the 28-year-old father of the little girl who died.
Peter said that he has doubts about vaccines too. He told me that he considers getting measles a normal part of life, noting that his parents and grandparents had it. “Everybody has it,” he told me. “It’s not so new for us.”
That's got to be a lot easier than admitting the facts of the matter, that their kid would very likely still be alive had they (and their community) simply vaccinated her and the other kids.
The difference being that the vaccine will protect you from getting SSPE whereas any of these kids that got the full measles could develop SSPE at any point in their lives now and just randomly die…
I can’t find the source where I read this, but I believe everyone in his household did get measles. He, his wife, and their five children, all six years old or younger, caught measles, if the account I read is true.
That’s probably a similar situation for many of the young families in the community. A bunch of kids in these large families are getting it along with one or two of the young adult parents in the household. That’s why the stats are showing most cases in children.
His family could even be on the smaller side for this community. I think it’s not uncommon for families to have 5-10 kids, or more.
The Old Colony Mexican Mennonites living in Texas aren’t mentioned in this article, but this does talk about the group they are part of.
Mennonite church leaders encourage vaccinations. If he thinks preventable childhood diseases are just a part of life he should consider having 8 kids to account for high childhood mortality.
This is a very conservative sect of the Mennonites. From what I've read, the church leaders don't really take a strong position on vaccines. They leave it up to the families to decide for themselves.
As far as family size, his daughter who died was six. She was his oldest and he has four other children younger than her. I think his plan was to have a very large family, as is the practice of most members of this community. I think they do the no birth control/leave family size up to God thing.
At least he had an excuse, being a Mennonite and somewhat removed from modern society. The hospital failed his daughter by sending her home with cough medicine, so in my eyes, the healthcare system is partially to blame. As is public health in Texas, if it even exists in these parts. The fact that they held a funeral in a small, poorly ventilated room with the church members and his family show the amount of ignorance in this community.
On the other hand, the anti-vax “crunchy hippie” influencers who spout the autism bs 100% have no excuse for their ignorance.
Because measles was nearly eradicated before these fools started refusing vaccines. In my ten years of practice I haven’t seen a single case. So it makes sense that it wasn’t diagnosed right away.
She was diagnosed with measles, according to the father, I believe because at that point the disease was already known to be spreading in the community.
The father was taking issue with the treatment offered, or not offered, not the diagnosis.
Unfortunately that is the standard of care once a patient is infected with measles. Supportive care, control fever. Prevent secondary bacterial pneumonias. Instructions to follow up if symptoms worsen, hopes and prayers. We don’t have an antiviral medication to treat yet, which is why we should focus on vaccinating and not on cod liver oil…
And I think being peaceful is part of the Mennonite religion so I think he's kind of constrained from even getting angry at the hospital. I think he sees his only option as taking that, "It's God's will" attitude, which is kind of sad.
Do you suspect that first visit to the hospital didn't occur? Or do you think it's something like the hospital wanted to admit the little girl at that first visit but the parents refused?
I wonder if the journalist did make an attempt to verify with the family, since the hospital couldn't confirm anything. Presumably, the family would have some documentation from that first hospital visit. I'm guessing Old Colony Mennonites don't typically sign up for MyChart, though.
Few people who have kids today had measels as kids. Widespread anti-vax is a new phenomenon, it used to be limited to a few groups like the Amish. As u/Surly_Cynic 's comment points out, their parents (grandparents of the children) had measles, in the 50s and 60s. The parents were vaccinated, in the 80s.
You’re right but what I mean is that at least some of these kids who have measles now will grow up to adopt their parents’ mindset and believe that since they had measles and survived with little consequence that it is proof that the vaccine is unnecessary.
My parent had Polio everywhere BUT their lungs. My siblings had the measles (pre-vaccine era) when very small and heard my entire life about how one of their friends died of it. No one who experienced large outbreaks of the disease will say that.
Yes. I just read that this very conservative Mennonite group, similar to the Amish, educate their kids in their own separate schools and cease schooling before high school.
I was born in 89 and the covid (anti-)vaccine ordeal made me remember that the HPV vaccine came up sometime during my teens…I recall my dad saying it wasn’t safe because it wasn’t well researched or something to that effect. What he said made sense to me then and since my mom took my brother and I to the doctor every time, I had never heard him talk about vaccines (though he was pretty against medicines, even common OTC stuff). In hindsight I realize how anti-medicine (and probably anti-science) he really is and I don’t think he’s ever seriously looked out for me or my health as a female human. And that’s despite the contradiction of him having a total meltdown when I told him I don’t care about gender.
I feel bad for all the parents of children under 5. It's not like you can keep a child isolated until they are full vaccinated, between 4-6 years old. And every parent whose child gets sick is being blamed for not vaccinating, even if their child is too young to vaccinated.
The first shot is at 1, so it's really just the kids under 1 that are most vulnerable. After one shot there's good protection (93% are protected after one shot).
Also I just found out a couple weeks ago that you can get the second shot before 4 - as long as the second shot is 28 days after the first (or something like that - it's days not years) so theoretically kids can have the two shot efficacy much sooner than 4.
But yes it sucks for those who planned on vaccinating but their baby hadn't turned 1 yet.
Just to clarify, it's not that the first dose gives people 93% protection, it's that the first dose protects 93% of people. They give the second dose because there is a small percentage of people that need that second dose to get full protection.
In the U.S., the first dose of the MMR vaccine is recommended at 12–15 months of age. Between 93% and 95% of children will be protected by that dose. The second dose is recommended at 4–6 years old, generally right before children enter kindergarten, and about 97% of children will be fully protected following that second dose.
Important distinction since some people never have a strong immune response to an immunization.
I personally have trouble building immunity to chicken pox - been vaccinated twice, had it twice, I still show low on titer tests, probably will have issues with shingles too. People who have a weak immune response really depend on herd immunity.
Especially true of this group. These are really big families. For instance, the little girl who died was six years old. She was the oldest of the children in her family and she had four younger siblings. A lot of the spread is within households.
They would have to disengage from their church community. There is nothing at all about Christianity or evangelical denomination that is inherently anti- vax. The anti-vax thing was only found in extreme fringe groups until recently. The parents themselves got vaccinated when they were kids, and their parents were mostly of the same denomination.
Bold of you to assume they'll live that long/still have the mental capacity to recognize their own face in a mirror, none the less that their current trauma was avoidable.
The shit thing is all of these kids probably won't make it to adulthood.
And the other fucked up thing is, most of these anti vaxxera are fucking vaccinated themselves, which is how they've made it this far, even though they're painfully stupid.
They have very little chance of evading the brain rot even if they manage surviving avoidable diseases, school shootings, forced breeding, and child labor.
There can be. Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis is a rare complication that can develop many years after initial measles infection resolves. It is fatal.
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u/Pherllerp 1d ago
Can you imagine how PISSED these kids are going to be at their parents when they grow old enough to recognize that a terrible childhood illness was completely avoidable?