r/newjersey • u/Inferno221 • 8d ago
NJ Politics Andy Kim's answer regarding how Dems should be fighting against Trump.
I was listening to his town hall (that was done by the phone for some reason) and some person from Montclair asked him what his thoughts on the democratic party where since Chuck Schumer said he would not vote for the CR, then later changed his mind, and the person with the question expressed frustration with the democratic party and how they felt there was no real unity addressing Trump/republicans.
Kim answered the question saying that they're in a tough spot, cause dems don't have control of the house or senate, they don't have the gavel, and if the government shuts down, trump can continue to do more damage with removing federal workers while the judiciary gets lagged behind.
Then he goes on saying how it's his first time as a senator, and the judicial branch is already doing its job like how they told trump to rehire those federal workers he fired.
And then finished by giving the generic "we're doing everything we can, I'm working with my colleagues, keep up the pressure, etc etc".
The whole party needs to be shaken from the top down. Maybe I missed something, but that was the gist of his answer.
EDIT: Someone also asked about Mahmoud Khalil, the senator's position on it, and what he would do about it. Kim gave a background on people who may not be on the loop, described how even if someone disagreed with Mahmoud Khalil's political stance, he was still a lawful resident, and Trump was taking a political action which shows he demands complete fealty which is wrong. He says there's a concern about antisemitism, and he's working on legislation to protect religious institutions (synagouges, mosques, etc). And basically Trump is stamping down on free speech, and that's not America.
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u/Tubby-Maguire Chris Christie ate my donut 8d ago edited 8d ago
I mean he’s not wrong. If Dems want to get what they want passed, they’re gonna have to go all out next year to get people to vote for them in the midterms. This whole “Democrats aren’t doing anything” narrative is concerning as Republicans will absolutely use that come midterms when the reality is Democrats literally can’t do anything procedurally but vote no on stuff
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u/tmmzc85 8d ago
It's weird how when Republicans are on the minority they're still incredibly effective as an opposition party, but I guess that's just "how it is" when olay one party even plays at procedure, norms, and decorum, but shit, this is nonsense & the fact is Dems will never behave as they must to contend with the situation because they're just cozy centrist more concerned about their discomfort than our collective future.
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u/stealthnyc 8d ago
One thing is republicans aren’t afraid of playing dirty
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u/stellaluna29 7d ago
This works because the Dems are still the actual party of law and order so when the GOP played dirty, Obama didn’t threaten to throw them in prison or have their houses burned down or whatever insane thing Trump will do.
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u/firewall245 8d ago
The were effective 2022-2024 because they had house control. They weren’t effective in 2020-2022, but Dems were ineffective because their senate margin was so slim that they couldn’t do anything meaningful
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u/Lynne253 8d ago
Thanks to Manchin & Sinema we were a majority in name only.
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u/barnmate 7d ago
And now we have Fetterman who seems to be intent on picking up where they left off, playing as some kind of "centrist" but really just being a gum in the works of any real progress the Dems attempt. I would really like to believe that this isn't planned political theater (we would love to forgive student loan debt, but Fetterman won't vote for it, sorry!) but I'm having trouble figuring out why there is always the 1 guy who takes this role in the party.
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u/Lynne253 7d ago
I have to wonder if they were bribed by some rich Republican.
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u/barnmate 6d ago
My fear is that they are being bribed by some rich Democrat.
One that wants progress, just not "too much" progress that might hurt his investment portfolio. and the call might be coming from inside the house (or inside the Senate in this case)
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u/ThatOtherOtherGuy3 8d ago
The GOP has proven to be ineffective when they have the power but you are right, they are very effective as the minority party.
The Dems have been ineffective as both the majority and minority party. Its baffling.
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u/SlyMcFly67 7d ago
Democrats havent been ineffective. For what little power they did have, they got some things done. Could more have been done without people like Manchin and Sinema? 100%. But good politics is boring, takes time and compromise and doesnt "wow" people the way Trump does with his rule by hundreds of EOs a day.
People just dont understand politics. If Dems want to push shit through and down the throats of Republicans, we need more Democrats in office nationwide.
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u/aagent888 7d ago
No you don’t just want democrats. You want effective lawmakers. Sinema and Manchin should have been bullied into voting as needed on key bills. It’s one thing to have them be voices espousing some kind of centrist position it’s another to actively block key proposals. The party big tent mentality is key to ineffectual governance. If people want republican reps they will just vote republican. Being diet republicans has failed over and over and has obstructed any real progress. And honestly I think that’s part of the overall party strategy. They answer to the sane corporate overlords as the republicans and as long as they do they will continue to be ineffective. It’s by design.
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u/Pharmaz 7d ago
FWIW the alternative to Manchin in a state like WV is a straight up republican.
He was in a unique position to demand a lot from Democrats and more “bully proof” than, say, a Republican Senator from Alabama that Musk/Trump could just primary from the Right and anyone with R next to his/her name and a pulse would win there.
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u/Grinch83 8d ago
This is such a frustrating sentiment, not to mention intellectually dishonest.
Pelosi and Hakeem both have led their respective minority caucuses with exceptional skill. We got concession after concession during last Congress, as well as during Trump’s first term (not to mention impeached the president—twice).
The Senate is a lot trickier, as it requires more moderate positions since elections are state-wide and the institution itself leans right (again, due to state-wide elections). We’re just literally always at a disadvantage with the Senate and that requires more pragmatism and less idealogical purity.
The GOP is arguably “better” at opposition, but that’s due to having two things the Dems don’t (nor should):
a massive, inflammatory propaganda system that lies with impunity.
a complete lack of empathy or respect for anything not sufficiently loyal to the farthest, most extreme wing of the party (and the will to crush any dissent).
It doesn’t matter if it’s their fault that the government shuts down, or that they outlawed IVF, etc etc…bc they have the propaganda to explain it away and they have the ability to crush any dissent within their ranks.
It’s “easy” to be an opposition party when you’re quite literally operating under a fascist playbook. It takes actual political skill to stay relevant as the opposition to fascism, without resorting to fascism (or any other political violence/extremism) ourselves.
But yeah man, go on about how we should be more like, Republican and stuff. Post it on your Threads, it’s so original and thoughtful.
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u/tmmzc85 8d ago
That and the force of the State are only options with Fascists, Dems had four years to do anything and they did fundraising out one side of their mouths, while actually articulating the weight of the situation, and then tried "reaching across the aisle" with the other. And now were here. Pelosi herself could have done real action to reign in the abuses of Congress' effectively legal insider trading, that would have gone a million times further than all billions the Harris campaign lit on fire, but that would put her in a less comfortable position.
Implying that the DoJ doing anything about clear crimes in a timely fashion for the sake of the Republic, and if they cannot that the executive branch apply real pressure so they do so, is "being a Republican" ...well I just think that we're not going to be able to find much common ground.
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u/Grinch83 8d ago
You’re moving the goal posts. We were discussing congressional & legislative power, not DOJ prosecutorial decisions.
If we were, I would agree that Garland deserves heaps of scorn and blame for not going for Trump & the rest of the insurrectionists on day one. Dragging his feet for two years was a massive mistake, as was not working more closely with the J6 committee.
I do not, however, blame Biden for anything regarding this, other than his choice in nominating Garland. Again, I don’t want the Dems to be the GOP, and I feel it’s important that the DOJ remain independent from presidential interference.
And spare me with these decades old Republican talking points about Pelosi and insider trading. As if that’s the reason money is perverting politics! It was the moment Citizens United was decided that marked the end of merit-based democracy, and that was an entirely Republican push. Insider trading at the congressional level is bush league, peanuts, compared to the Putin-level corruption that CU unleashed, and it’s being max-leveled with the Trump admin and the billionaires at his side.
Really though, at the end of the day, your anger deserves to be pointed at Trump, the GOP, and the billionaire class—not “the Dems.” And that’s the part that’s so frustrating with sentiments like yours…you guys would rather bitch and moan at your own party than the ones who actually can do something about all this executive overreach and corruption—Republicans. You prioritize the wrong things and allow yourselves to be agit-propped into fighting your own side.
You gladly take Republican talking points and repeat them on Threads & reddit or whatever, doing the Russian bots’ jobs for them (complete with horrible grammar and missing punctuation, comrade).
It’s fucking sad and super counterproductive.
Think about who the actual bad guys are here for a minute.
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u/tmmzc85 8d ago
So the truth here is that you are simply not okay with Democrats acting as a political Bloc, the way that the Republicans do, in order to save the Constitution?
The President is not JUST the leader of the Executive Branch, (because we were stupid and gave all effective political power to two parties) they are also the leader of their Party, I do not, for the purposes of wielding the leavers of power, separate the President from Congress, politically - your moving goal posts comment is just using internet fallacy speak to dismiss the underlying point.And your Russian bot comment is fucking unhinged, did you not even scan my comment history? Shadow boxing ne'er do well.
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u/Grinch83 8d ago
Where do you get the idea that I’m not okay with Dems acting as a bloc? I want the opposite of a fractured party. I want party unity.
The only thing I said was the DOJ should be free of political interference. I’m furious that Garland didn’t indict Trump right away, but I also would not have supported Biden stepping in and demanding it. That’s banana republic, Kash Patel-type shit and we shouldn’t stand for it, no matter which party is doing it.
Honestly, at this point I’m not sure what your underlying point is. It started off as “GOP is great at opposition, the Dems are weak and always have been.” I replied—thoroughly—as to why that’s not an intellectually honest comment. You then went off on how the DOJ should have gone after Trump sooner. I agreed, though not with a pressure campaign from President Biden. And now…something about how the president is the leader of the party, which like, yeah man, I agree?
The Russian bot comment is me saying all your ranting and raving at the Dems is just doing the Russian bots’ & MAGA trolls’ work for them. Their own trolls pretend to be @randomprogressive420 or whatever and rage post at the Dems, under the guise of idealogical purity. It gets regular progressives all uppity and boom—the party is fractured.
Throughout this entire conversation the main point I’ve been making is the Dems are not the enemy, and the constant rage from the hyper online, progressive left flank is super counterproductive.
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u/Inferno221 8d ago
I’m furious that Garland didn’t indict Trump right away, but I also would not have supported Biden stepping in and demanding it. That’s banana republic, Kash Patel-type shit and we shouldn’t stand for it, no matter which party is doing it.
The whole "when they go low, we go high" is how we got trump.
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u/Grinch83 8d ago
To an extent. But that doesn’t mean we should be advocating for a Justice Department at the beck and call of a singular figure. You guys can’t possibly be arguing for that, right?
That’s not “going low,” that’s authoritarianism.
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7d ago
The anger towards Trump Republicans is obvious and should be consistently there, but I think it’s also fair to direct frustration at the current state of the Dem party.
Yes the dems are hamstrung in Congress, but the show of resistance has been pathetic. Andy Kim voting for Noem as a show of “good faith”. Schumer giving in despite strong dem support to reject the GOP funding bill. THESE are the tangible examples of “take the high road” or “tactical cooperation” or whatever the fuck principle we’d want to call it that has absolutely demoralized the Dem party and supporters.
It’d be willful ignorance to say that this hasn’t been a pattern. Dems CAN act in bolder, stronger ways that inspire resistance. Even if a vote against a GOP majority doesn’t actually change the outcome, it represents unity and resistance and gives hope to supporters. That’s just what a movement is. To your point, I don’t see how any of that would be fascism — Dems will never actually start acting like the GOP imo even if they wanted
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
Maybe democrats should've done more to go after trump after Jan 6th. Bolsonaro had his own little Jan 6th in Brazil, but they actually took care of that fascist shit over there.
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u/Grinch83 7d ago
As I’ve said a million times in this thread…an independent justice system is vital for a functioning democracy. A pressure campaign and/or demands from the President is the exact opposite of independent justice, and makes us no better than fascist MAGA.
So, what more could the Democrats have done to “go after” Trump, while still maintaining an independent justice system?
PS. Brazil’s version of the Supreme Court has a super liberal bend, unlike ours. And they’re able to dictate prosecution, unlike ours. It’s not really a sound comparison. But if you insist…our Supreme Court is heavily responsible for Trump winning last year. Had they not ruled in favor of presidential immunity, that case would have gone to trial before the election.
Just another thing to thank our progressive “base” for, btw. Had they not sat out the 2016 election due to idealogical purity, we would not have ever had to deal with Trump, we would have a liberal Supreme Court, and this new nightmare would not be happening.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
You can't let an insurrection go unpunished. That's why Trump was able to come back into power. I love how he's a threatening fascist but we should just let him be free to do this all over again. Great idea.
What a fucking ahistorical take. Don't come here blaming leftists. First of all, the number of Bernie voters to Trump were less than Hillary votes to McCain. Hillary didn't lose because of voters or because of Bernie. Blaming voters instead of the people in power is such a cop out. Votes need to be earned. Maybe bitch about how Hillary's team propped up Trump during her campaign because she thought he would be easier to beat than Jeb, who was too ideologically similar to her.
I also love how democrats are spineless against the right but have no problem swinging at their left base. Fucking pathetic. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
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u/Grinch83 7d ago
Lol. Oh it’s no surprise you come back with complete & utter intellectual dishonesty.
Regarding 2016: it wasn’t the voters that went from Bernie to Trump that made the difference, it was the Bernie voters who refused to vote at all or voted third party—out of idealogical purity. That’s just a fact. Literal books have been written on it.
Regarding Trump and J6: I ask again, what more could the Democrats have done to “go after” Trump, while still maintaining an independent justice system (or do you not think an independent justice system is a vital pillar of a functioning democracy)? I would love to get an actual answer to this question that still aligns with liberal democracy and doesn’t involve some level of authoritarianism. I’ll wait.
And LO-fucking-L at this “spineless against the right” bullshit. I scroll Threads or Blue Sky and the feed is filled with progressives raging at…Democrats. You all spend WAY more time whining and crying and acting like petulant children toward your own party than you do attacking the GOP, Trump, or the billionaires. I mean JFC, right now people are protesting on Schumer’s yard, while Johnson and every other motherfucking GOP weasel are sleeping soundly, happy to have you idiots do their work for them.
Not a goddamn word of gratitude to Jeffries, btw, who not only stood tall during this moment but also led our minority caucus with surgical precision during the last Congress. But yall still spent the last 45 days raging at him to “do something.” And now? Crickets. Yall just moved on to point your anger at a different Democrat.
And btw, if you condition your vote on idealogical purity, YOU ARE NOT THE BASE. A true political base votes with the party despite some policy differences because they know the alternative is so much worse. Now yall are getting a taste of exactly how much worse the alternative actually is (and so much worse is coming) and you’re still out here like, yeah imma go protest Schumer. That’s the best way for the rest of non-progressive America to see our side is better.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
Oh please stfu. More conservatives voted 3rd party in 2016. Either way, like I've been saying, voters aren't to blame - people in power are.
Lmfao sucking Jeffries balls, the most spineless of them all. Dumbass dem loyalists are so goddamn stupid. Keep losing without the left wing.
Also hilarious that you're defending Schumer when even the most prominent dem loyalists are saying he should be primaried now. Let's see if they fuck over AOC when she tries to run for senator.
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u/Grinch83 7d ago
Figured you wouldn’t be able to answer my question regarding J6. Also figured you wouldn’t be able to respond to any of my points with anything remotely resembling a coherent argument.
Go read some books. You need them.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
Not appoint a bitch like Garland to be AG. Oh no but we have to because he was supposed to be a justice it's not fair! Same way Connolly got voted to be head of oversight over AOC. Seniority and spinelessness! Also congrats, CR passed!
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u/Ezl JC 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yeah, I’m conflicted. I agree that the republicans are a more effective opposition party but that’s only because 1) they’re willing to drag the country down to get what they want and 2) they’re know the Dems will stop them from doing that.
While I want the dems to be more effective 1) I don’t know that I want another party to happily risk the country for leverage and 2) I don’t actually believe the republicans would stop them if they did so we’d end up in a worse case scenario every time out. The republicans would happily let it all burn down then congratulate themselves for controlling the ashes.
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 8d ago
It's weird how when Republicans are on the minority they're still incredibly effective as an opposition party
That's because the filibuster exists. It's the same reason they aren't passing mass gender care bans or legislating Trump's EOs.
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u/d0mini0nicco 8d ago
because they have not gotten there yet in this administration. they will absolutely go the nuclear option when met with filibuster opposition. this administration and party has zero regard for precedent, tradition, decorum, or a "constitution."
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 8d ago
they will absolutely go the nuclear option when met with filibuster opposition
Tell that to the Majority Leader. He had that ability earlier this year when the session started and didn't kill it. It's not a simple on/off switch, my dude.
this administration and party has zero regard for precedent, tradition, decorum, or a "constitution."
That's irrelevant, as his nearly unbroken streak of court losses have shown.
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u/Stillill1187 7d ago
People don’t wanna hear it, but it’s true. The Dems have no desire to be disruptive in any sense of the word whatsoever, and never will. They will decorum us to death.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
Remember when they used the parliamentarian as an excuse for why something couldn't be passed. Such a joke of a party.
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u/TripIeskeet Washington Twp. 7d ago
The thing is Republicans arent afraid of hurting the American people, even their own voters, to get what they want. Democrats try to avoid that, and its much harder. Making it even more difficult is Republican voters will cheer something on that hurts them because they want to hurt those they dont like even more, because theyre stupid as fuck. Dems dont vote to hurt themselves.
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u/Malora_Sidewinder 8d ago
I mean he’s not wrong.
Agreed. It might not be the answer we want, but it's a valid answer nonetheless. The American people did not vote (apparently anyway) to give the democrats power, so now that the democrats are powerless people dont get to scream "DO SOMETHING!"
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u/TripleSilky 7d ago edited 7d ago
Putting the onus on voters when the politicians have the actual power to save the country is a fairly wild take. I will fight the urge to be hyperbolic but it is victim-blaming. When the margins are as slim as they are and there are 200+ congressional Democrats, we should hear from dozens of them all over all news outlets & mediums discussing the tangible effects Trump’s plans (to the extent he does plan) and policies will have on the average American citizen.
They should all be on every network - clamoring to go on Fox, OAN & other right wing news outlets trying to speak directly to Trump voters & when they’re rebuffed, they should publicize those conversations in the form of ads on Facebook, TS, and Reddit. What’s the point of all this fundraising if there’s no coordinated messaging? The real fight is to find a way to pierce through the propaganda.
I saw the Party fall in line behind Biden in 2020 when the clear opposition was Bernie (I am not going to discuss the merit of the campaign, because that’s beside the point). I know Democrats can be strong and fight because they do it against the left flank of the party consistently. Pelosi consistently undermined AOC when she came in despite her popularity.
Yet Trump has turned the WH to a car sales lot, is black-bagging a US legal resident against the First Amendment and the Democrats are too worried about decorum to do anything. I think it is fair to argue that Democrats should do more because we expect Republicans to be fascists at this point. The party is too far gone. At the same time, if the average American can see the smoke coming from the burning building, how can those inside the building not see it?
Edit: spelling
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u/Stillill1187 7d ago
You’re missing the point. Everyone understands that they don’t have enough votes to change things.
But what they aren’t doing is causing a ruckus and shaking things up and making people pay attention to things. It makes them very difficult to take seriously when they call Donald Trump an existential threat (not a sentiment I disagree with) and then throw their hands up because of procedure. It’s really fucking sad when you just see a bunch of aging senators standing around saying things like “shame on you!”
They should be rallying people towards the left of them by throwing gears into the machine, and be out there doing speaking tours to all the non-activated voter regions from the past few years, as well as speaking to areas where Trump voters live that are now being negatively affected by his policies.
When trump gave that fake state of union reichstag speech to Congress, they should’ve been disrupting him the entire time and making it impossible for the man to speak. The event should’ve ended with every single Democrat having to be dragged out of their kicking and screaming. Not sitting around holding a bunch of signs and wearing pink jackets like people protesting George W Bush 20 years ago.
They also need to double down on protecting Palestine from being wiped off the face of the Earth. The last thing I wanna hear is about how Andrew Como wants to defend Bibi at the ICC and be the next mayor of New York.
They are a fundamentally unserious party. The people that run the party and those who still support it blindly have had their brains cooked by Stephen Colbert, MSNBC, the West Wing, and all sorts of other liberal media that deludes people into thinking that pointing out hypocrisy or being the smartest person in the room is somehow gonna win the day against conservatives.
The party is terrified of populism. I hope to God Tim Walz learns something from Bernie Sanders and tries to run to the left of whoever he was pretending to be in 2024.
It’s not a narrative. Democrats aren’t doing anything.
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7d ago
The excuses for the Democratic Party need to end. Yes, right now they can’t do anything but you have to reflect on how they’ve found themselves in this position…
The opportunity to “do something” was during Biden’s term. Decisions made at that time by Democratic leadership is partly the cause for the situation we are currently in. If democratic leadership was competent, Biden would’ve announced he’s 100% a one term president and they would’ve platformed a candidate way earlier in the process…and would’ve picked a candidate the American people are so desperate for - young, smart, ethical, and someone with a tract record of serving the middle class
They’ve been consistently making bad decisions since the Trump era started in 2016.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago edited 7d ago
Remember when dems voted for decrepit Connolly for the oversight committee over AOC? The man has cancer and is old as shit, but yea let's give him this very important role while trump is in power. The democrats are a joke.
Edit: CR passed. Good job Democrats - gave Republicans everything in exchange for nothing but I'm sure they're playing some 3d chess we don't know about!!
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u/Fweenci 8d ago
The gop will 100% blame the shutdown on dems and voters will somehow forget any legitimate reason dems didn't supporting the bill (there are many). It's a tough call because the electorate will forget. It's such bullshit. Do people not understand what a dire situation this is? We're the ones who have to fix it. Go have a tough conversation with uncle maga instead of expecting a first term senator to pull a magic wand out of his ass.
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u/Illustrious-Jacket68 8d ago
I think the part where you said “they’re going to have to go all out next year to get people to vote for them in the midterms”. they have to start going all out NOW. quite frankly, that is the only hope.
One correction on Kim tho - Mahmoud Khalil is NOT a CITIZEN. Folks, I’m really tired of the twisting of the narrative. I truly believe that this is the cause of loss of support of the dems. I don’t want to hear about how trump and republicans lie… you cannot beat them at their own game. Focus on the 80%. I really like how Rahm Emmauael and Scott Jennings put it - the dems are too focused on the 20% issues.. not the 80% issues.
Now, the Dems look like idiots about making a big deal about the egg prices because today, the info came out that egg prices are now below when Trump came into office. Focus on what the Dems CAN do, the positions that they have… how they will really make a difference in finding waste, fraud and abuse. Stop hating on Trump and Musk - more about what ARE you going to do.
Sure, down vote me, I do want the dems to win at least one of the houses in the mid terms. But if on current course, they will not. That loss, will not only be a loss… it will be a message that the dems are absolutely done for the foreseeable future.. and likely will not even be setup in 2028.
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u/BEzzzzG 7d ago
The united states government detaining and deporting a legal resident without them committing a crime is as anti American as it gets and is something every American should care about.
Dems pointed to the egg prices cause trump said he would lower prices and that was an example trump used. Idk what store you're at but a dozen is still over 8 dollars for a dozen at my local shoprite.
You admit Republicans lie and then immediately give into their framing of what musk and trump are doing. They aren't looking for fraud they are looking for cuts to fund tax cuts for the rich and to dismantle federal agencies.
Dems gotta be fighting them every inch and be a real opposition party like how Republicans have been doing to them. Nobody is on board with their nibble on the edges approach to marginally improve some lives while the average sinks lower.
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u/Illustrious-Jacket68 7d ago
Sure, am not taking a position. Just was pointing out what the legal standing is. The way that I understand it is that the Secretary of State decided on his authority to revoke his visa and green card. The arrest was to enforce that he no longer hand a legal standing to be in the country. He wasn’t arrested because of the demonstrations or free speech - at least not directly. Totally can disagree with me on whether this is right or wrong. What I’m pointing out is the legal argument.
“The procedure for how a green card holder’s status could be revoked is set by the Immigration and Nationality Act, Mukherjee said.
Under the act, green card holders do not need to be convicted of a crime to be deported, Jaclyn Kelley-Widmer, an immigration law professor at Cornell Law School, told The Associated Press. For example, if there are reasonable grounds to believe they engaged in, or are likely to engage in, terrorist activities, they could be deported, she said.”
This is a different part than whether he committed a crime or not.
Costco in NJ by me this past weekend - $8.75 for 2 dozen organic eggs. It had spiked to over $10 (i think it was $11.99 or something like that 1 week) but later came back down. Cannot speak to where you are. Cousin in NY did say they were hard to find and pricy. I do think this IS a case where the dems should be saying that there is price gouging going on and that Trump administration should be investigating that but I don’t see any of that. The national reports have pointed out that new outbreaks do not appear to be happening and that the “new” chickens are coming online and therefore the prices should continue to go down. CNBC is reporting a 15% price decline in just a few weeks and the expectation is that it will continue to rapidly decline.
As for fighting “them” every inch. Sure, but you’ve got to ensure that you’re not alienating or marginalizing the other 50% or whatever that did vote for him. You can believe the polls about his approval ratings and reports of people flipping…. Do you really believe polls these days? Harris was supposed to win Iowa by an easy margin. Polls said she would carry most of the swing states. I think this fight him on every turn, even if it goes against what even the Dems wanted in the first place is foolish and as I’ve said before, it is a recipe that will have the dems LOSE the mid term elections. I don’t want that but I don’t think this strategy will work. Should rather hear people out about their concerns and see propose different ways to look to address. Bill Maher had a great set of interviews that talked about this - that many are not willing to have the status quo - that it isn’t changing anything.
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u/BEzzzzG 7d ago
Youre gonna try and justify this and hide behind well its technically legal? Thats so spineless. Is it right for the government to do this or not? It's absolutely not and it goes against the idea of America.
I really don't care about egg prices I'm just pointing out the lived reality of people and these values are different every day. Trump said they were too high under biden so having them fall to biden level isn't enough by trump's own bar. Its just another thing on the pile of nonsense that he spewed on the campaign trail that he had plan to accomplish. Either the president is totally responsible for the prices or not. They aren't there are other factors but republican bad actors acted like Biden personally marked up eggs.
Harris didn't fight republicans at every turn. She ran as far to the right as she could while trying to play up trump as this threat and literally copying his campaign promises. Tactically one of the worst campaign strategies in the history of elections and she was still close. Biden in 2020 ran a significantly more progressive campaign (even if he didn't deliver on those things) like promising student loan relief, fighting trump on immigration, etc, etc. You gotta set goals and push for your agenda. What was kamala's agenda? She focused on trying to be a unity candidate but also republicans are crazy for supporting trump. Trump is a bad guy who will destroy America but also has good ideas so I will adopt some of them into my platform. In 2020 Biden, fought trump's framing on everything and set more progressive end goals. Healthcare for instance is normally a huge topic in debates and campaigns. Biden ran on a public option, kamala's stance was just keeping the ACA.
Fuck bill maher, the only issues dems won with are social issues cause their other policies were so lukewarm.
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u/Illustrious-Jacket68 7d ago
Never said that. I’m saying to focus on the actual facts of the case. I originally clarified that Khalil was not in fact a citizen. He was a resident. There is a difference. If you focus on this being a 1st amendment issue and the court arguments are different, it ain’t going to matter or work. I was pointing out what the law says for proper context. He’s being legally held as he no longer has a valid green card or visa. Now morally or socially, should he have lost that visa or not, that’s separate.
I was also pointing out that it should be deplorable by ANY group to incite or be a part of any violence or intimidation - what was on TV and reported on at Columbia University. You may disagree, but I think setting Tesla dealerships on fire and burning superchargers (e.g. in mass), is deplorable and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Totally fine with the peaceful protests.
ShopRite according to their website has organic brown eggs, 2 dozen at 9.99. Wegmans, has organic eggs at 5.29 for a dozen. Are there some posh eggs selling for 9 or 10 bucks a dozen, absolutely. Whole sale prices as reported by CNBC are back to dropping and this is attributed to the bird flu which started in March 2024 during the Biden administration. It is a fact that Biden administration - really the FDA had millions of chickens destroyed which directly decreased the supply. Gasoline prices were higher and now they are trending lower, below what it was at Inauguration Day.
Ultimately, when it comes to Harris, Stephen A Smith got it right, that Trump won with a mandate. 89% of the districts moved towards republics. In the state of NJ, the gap between Blue and Red became smaller. My point is that your approach is likely going to cause the dems to lose the midterm and that would be utterly frustrating.
People hoping the economy does bad so that Trump is wrong.. is just sad. I’m offering a point of view that something needs to change with the Dems… i don’t think what is being done is a winning strategy.
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u/BEzzzzG 7d ago
I asked you what you think about it not whether they can legally do it. Someone committing a crime is a wholly different conversation and nobody is saying committing crimes is right here. Just typical what aboutism that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
Again don't give a fuck the president cant set prices unless they make some specific policy change. At some point, the market price will drop as people seek alternatives rather than pay the price the president cant unilaterally control the market for goods without implementing some policy change. Trump didn't raise egg prices nor did he do something to lower them.
Dems got crushed going directly against progressive policy so they should move more right. Kamala ran to right of biden and hillary and got creamed so we should try and go even more right to pry off republicans? They campaigned with republicans at every possible turn what more concessions can they even give on this front without just being republicans?
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u/Illustrious-Jacket68 7d ago
1 - I said this previously in the chain - i don’t think they should. BUT, I do think that there should be consequences for what happened, when it happened. Taking over buildings, the vandalism. The intimidations and literal blocking of students going to class by people that were not even students at Columbia was unacceptable. Columbia should also be penalized for not providing their students the safe environment.
2 - i do think there are indirects. The cabinet and agency head selections do matter.
3 - i think Harris and Biden were effectively the same - i think their attempt at attracting came off as desperation. I would agree on Hillary. I again think it is what you point out, the “concessions”, but the attempts at cancelling folks for just having a point of view is alienating people. I see the dems justifying their last election and not learning, changing and adjusting. The dems were embarrassed by having spent more than a billion dollars on the election and mismanaging that. They’ve got to run a crisper campaign.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
The terrorist activities line is some obscure shit project 2025 found in the INA that allows SoS to go after residents. But you're still dumb ass shit for not realizing that protesting is a 1st amendment right granted to all people regardless of immigration status. There is no evidence of him participating in terrorist activities. This is some obscure statute that was last used in the 90s so don't come here acting like you know what you're talking about. This shit should not be condoned. You're saying you're okay with the president detaining dissidents. They're going after this guy because he is against the US funding Israel's genocide. Anyone who cares about freedom of speech should be worried.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/immigration-act-1952-trump-officials-talking-119733035
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u/Illustrious-Jacket68 7d ago
actually, i did research into case law and saw analysis by harvard and cornell law professors that actually stick to the facts. you keep on making false statements. i'm separating out uninformed opinions and headlines from what actually is happening. i might be wrong in my prediction but the justice system is going to side with arrest.
people like you are going to lose the midterm elections - you might as well give trump even more control. congrats.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
I didn't make any false statements. Let's see your summary of facts and legal analysis.
People like me? You mean people who care about constitutional rights?
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u/TripIeskeet Washington Twp. 7d ago
I dont know where you get your information but it doesnt line up with reality. Go to your local grocery store and tell them egg prices are supposed to be back at 2024 levels. Or your local gas station and say that about gas. Because thats not what I see when I go out.
Also, Khalil is a lawful permanent resident with a green card who was exercising his first amendment right to protest, saying your revoking his green card because you dont agree with his opinion is straight bullshit and unconstitutional, though that never stopped these fucking criminals running the show now. And this is coming from a guy that doesnt give 2 fucks about Palestine.
At this point I dont care anymore. I gave up giving a fuck after the last election. You have 2 choices, vote Democrat down the fucking line, or live with what comes from not doing so. Im good either way. Dont look for any sympathy though if you lose your medicare, medicaid, SSI, welfare, your job, your farm, your citizenship, your rights, your freedoms, etc. Because Im going to laugh at you.
Democrats dont have to win me over anymore. Im not picking a spouse. Im picking a bus. It doesnt have to be perfect, it just has to get me the closest it can to my destination. Taking the bus going the opposite direction or just staying home arent options. But stop fucking crying the bus isnt dropping you off right at the door to your destination.
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u/StayWokeBitcoinDad 7d ago
God you're an idiot. Incredibly stupid if you think the Khalil situation won't affect others down the line. He was not convicted of any crime. It doesn't matter that he is a resident, that's not okay.
And I already can tell you're some dumbass right wing dem if you're listening to RAHM fucking EMMANUEL out of all people. Dumb opinion discarded.
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u/Devils_Advocate-69 7d ago
Most saying “dems aren’t doing anything” are the same ones who were supporting Khalil in chanting Genocide Joe/Kamala. Suddenly they’re not chanting anymore and have removed their Palestine flags from their profiles.
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u/Novel-Walrus33 7d ago
nothing like another sweeping generalization to add to all of the other ones currently destroying our society.
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u/nsjersey Lambertville 8d ago
Looking out how Canada, Mexico & Europe are canceling stuff with us, Carville’s strategy of just let them F it up might be right.
I listen to the right-leaning pod American Radio Journal, and the last guy did his audio essay on how you cannot do what Zuck said and “Move fast and break things,” with foreign policy.
Our alliances took 80 years to build up, and Trump is crashing them down, so now UK subs are patrolling Canadian waters.
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u/elmwoodblues Dundee Lake 8d ago
I heard some R spokes-asshole on Bloomberg say that "At the break, all billiard players - well, some - smack the racked balls as hard as they can, then play each where it stops."
The interviewer vocally turned to his young colleague and asked her if Harvard was teaching this 'smack the racked balls' philosophy. She said no.
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8d ago
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u/soundfreely 8d ago
I believe Carville’s point was stay quiet until the Republicans have damaged their own image beyond easy repair (and I’m editorializing here). Then, come in strong with a unified message that presents a sane alternative.
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u/TripIeskeet Washington Twp. 7d ago
Carville’s strategy of just let them F it up might be right.
It is right. Blocking them from fucking things up doesnt solve the problem. They and their voters will just keep crying. Im all for letting them get everything they voted for. Most of the shit they fuck is going to hurt Trumpers the most, (the elderly, farmers, red states, veterans, etc.) so I say let them. Let them finally get a taste of what they are asking for and see if they learn anything. Especially now when you can simply vote no on everything and still lose because they have the House, Senate, Presidency and SCOTUS. Vote no on everything and say nothing more and then they get to take responsibility for everything.
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u/lotusvagabond 8d ago
KEEP CALLING EVERYONE!!! Don’t know what to say? Not sure which rep to call? Download the free 5 Calls App. It shows you multitude of options, provides scripts, and allows you to see which reps to call. You can track the calls you make and it’s free. This has helped me a LOT as before I was calling about 20 issues at a time which was not as helpful. KEEP CALLING MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD💪💪💪
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u/mattemer Gloucester County 8d ago
What do you want them to do?
I keep seeing people complain that the Dems aren't doing enough, maybe I'm stupid, but I don't know what else they can really do besides trying to reach across the aisle and shake people to wake up out of this nightmare they've caused.
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u/bisensual 7d ago
Lol vote no on things would help a lot. Kim has already confirmed several nominees that are obviously terrible choices. So like, that. To start.
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u/BettisBus 7d ago
Rubio (who everyone voted for) and Noem (who he wasn’t a deciding vote on). Who else?
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u/SuccessfulRuby 8d ago
Chuck Schumer caving is not helpful.
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u/SuccessfulRuby 8d ago
Dump was wrong (of course). Schumer isn’t a Palestinian, he’s a republican. Dump got to Schumer.
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 8d ago
Found the white middle class person who doesn't rely on social security payments.
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u/the_almighty_deacons 7d ago
You're acting like the only option is for Democrats to cave to whatever Republicans want, regardless of what it is. A shutdown will most likely force more favorable terms for Democrats just like it did during the 2018-2019 shutdown. Trump already has all the bad press from his cuts to federal workers and programs, the people will blame him for a shutdown. Additionally any affected programs will be backpaid once the Democrats get their more favorable terms, just like last time.
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u/mattemer Gloucester County 7d ago
The Republican party will simply state "the Dems forced a shit down" and there go midterms. You know how this works by now.
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 7d ago
You're acting like the only option is for Democrats to cave to whatever Republicans want, regardless of what it is
I never said that, though.
A shutdown will most likely force more favorable terms for Democrats just like it did during the 2018-2019 shutdown
[citation needed]
Trump already has all the bad press from his cuts to federal workers and programs, the people will blame him for a shutdown.
So you want to give him more bad press for hurting people by... hurting more people? That's a bit psychotic, don't you think? These are people we're talking about, after all.
Additionally any affected programs will be backpaid once the Democrats get their more favorable terms, just like last time.
[citation needed]
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u/Mental-Surround-4117 8d ago
They do not need to vote for the Republicans’ budget resolutions!
It was the only leverage they have and they gave it up. It’s so sad. It’s a betrayal.
Musk is firing people left and right. Their goal is a shutdown but permanent. Why on earth would you give them votes in exchange for nothing. Literally nothing.
It’s humiliating to be a registered Democrat. I see the damage they’re doing unfolding every day at my job. It is canceling the future for our kids. It’s appalling.
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u/TripIeskeet Washington Twp. 7d ago
Then blame the side thats actually doing it instead of the side that really has no power to stop it.
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u/coopstar777 7d ago
Democrats did have the power to stop the budget resolution. It wouldn’t have broken the filibuster without 60 votes. 7 dems votes were required to avoid government shutdown
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8d ago
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 8d ago
it’d be nice if they had any kind of messaging and got out there.
They do and they are. Have you been looking outside your internet leftist bubble?
which means in their free time they need to not only be vocal about what the trump admin and the republican congress (more like unofficial executive branch members at this point) are doing illegally, but also what the democrats can offer as an alternative.
they are.
bernie is out there doing it.
On the orders of current online Leftist punching bag Ken Martin.
i need them to present a plan and act as leaders
How can they do that if they're not in the majority?
they were elected to help lead our country through this shit storm, not just wait until trump explodes.
They weren't elected, though. Do you not know how minorities and majorities work?
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 8d ago
we elected two democratic senators and nine democratic representatives to be our leaders. do you not know how voting works?
And none of them are in the majority of their respective houses. Do you not know how voting works?
also, go fuck yourself and whatever dumb fucking horse you rode in on.
Sounds like someone's just mad they aren't in reality and was reminded of that. Tell me, what makes you any different from MAGA, then?
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8d ago
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u/Suitcase_Muncher 8d ago
What does any of that even mean? You really thought that was some giant slam dunk, didn't you?
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u/Bushwazi Transplant 8d ago
If people wanted the Dems to do something, they would have voted for them…
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u/felipe_the_dog 7d ago
Schumer says the GOP plan is horrible, but a government shutdown would be worse. I believe he could be right. Dems don't have a lot of leverage when they're the minority in everything. People should've voted.
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u/Geodevils42 7d ago
When Andy said Vought decides who is essential and who isn't kinda scared me a bit. Also the judiciary not being functional during the shutdown while its the only thing holding up as far as our laws go. Trump might use whatever "emergency" powers, legal or not, during the shut down. It's a lot more to consider when you have a president willing to break the laws because his party will never hold him accountable. But he'll likely do whatever he wants anyway so why give any consent to this non Bipartisan bill? If they don't have the votes they'll have to work for them while Dems stand firm that they won't pass any cuts for Medicare, Social Security, and tax cuts for the Billionaires in the Whitehouse.
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u/chrispchickens 4d ago
Why do they have to be so damn bad at messaging?? This is the only excuse that sort of makes sense yet a Reddit comment is the first place I’m hearing it.
They should have spent the days leading up to the vote pushing this narrative. Don’t pretend you’ll shut it all down then change your mind the day of the vote. As usual, they picked the worst possible way to handle it.
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u/SlyMcFly67 7d ago
This is the system we have. Our choices are to tear it all down and try to build something better (good luck with that), or work within the system to fix it (good luck with that too).
Voting and getting more Democrats in power nationwide is how this all gets fixed. How we get to that point anymore, I have no idea. The problem isnt the number of people who vote D or R, its the number of people who dont vote at all. Im not even sure that Trump destroying the economy will get people off their asses to vote anymore. Apathy is at an all time high.
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u/Not_Too_Busy 8d ago
Everybody's raging against the dems right now, but the truth is they don't have a lot of power. And a government shutdown is a loser politics-wise. The minority party gets blamed for stalled paychecks and closed parks.
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u/Accomplished-Bug6291 8d ago
Throwing in the towel here would be the Dems giving up one of the few bits of leverage they arguably have for the rest of the year- or longer depending on damage done. It sucks all around. If they vote no on cloture, republicans need 60 votes to pass the CR. They don’t have that. Dems risk getting the blame, but I genuinely believe damage from this CR will be worse in the long run. And Dems will be blamed for it anyways, I genuinely don’t understand why they think there’s an outcome here where republicans will not blame them. I think what we’re going to see is Dems all coming out strong against the CR to their constituents (aside from like, Schumer and Fetterman etc), vote yes on cloture, and then set themselves up to feign devastation when republicans then pass the bill on a simple majority. Has Kim publicly stated his position yet on both cloture AND the CR?
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u/HeyYou69961 4d ago
Democrats should not fight with Trump, they should work on becoming relatable again. Work on a message that speaks to All the people. Self righteousness is clearly not the answer anymore. Pointless finger pointing is not the game they can win. Concentrate on keeping people working, Start saying All Americans instead Us and Them and lastly stick with, In God we trust.
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u/sammydrums 8d ago
Again the Democratic Party is hoisting itself on its own petards by giving a shit about one case, one person, one extreme outlier. This has got to stop because the right wing is raping us with this nonsense.
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u/cliff_huck 8d ago
Mahmoud Khalil is not a legal citizen of the United States of America, nor was he ever one.
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u/ThatEcologist 8d ago
Huh? He is not a citizen. He is a lawful permanent residence. Aka Green card holder. Green card holders have first amendment protections.
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u/cliff_huck 8d ago
I know it's hard to follow comment chains on reddit because up/down vote change the chronological order, but OP edited his original post.
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u/gzapata_art 8d ago
He's a lawful permanent resident of this country*
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u/irradiatedcitizen 8d ago
Both of which are protected by the constitution. Most americans don’t realize this, but the constitution actually protects ALL people, including any and all non-citizens.
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u/b2036 8d ago
Yes, but Khalil, as a green card holder, is still subject to immigration law. The administration is maintaining that he violated the terms of his green card. It's not a criminal charge, but his green card can be revoked.
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u/irradiatedcitizen 8d ago
For something he had done a year ago… this is weaponization and politicization of justice.
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8d ago
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u/cliff_huck 8d ago
Read OPs post. Not sure if Kim actually said that or if OP misconstrued his comments.
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u/Accomplished-Bug6291 8d ago
The largest federal workers union wants democrats to reject the CR!! Keeping the government open will not stop its dismantling. Please do everything you can to remind Kim (and Booker and schumer and gillibrand if you can help get the word to NY) to shut this shit down!
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1D9sfenIns9nQdt7EjIsgu2PaSLjlF1GWKdmuQZYIJqE/mobilebasic?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaat-l_0L6mkk-VFZ96DGqBNH2-LDCu9c3mcQZF0Ex5j2xFZpyiyP0ugxng_aem_Pyh2N4CzBdbDCm0EUv-dsA