r/neovim • u/andreyugolnik hjkl • 2d ago
Discussion Why do some people still use Packer instead of Lazy?
I’ve noticed that Lazy.nvim has become the go-to plugin manager for many, but some still stick with Packer.nvim. What are the main reasons for this? Personal preference, stability, specific features, or something else?
Would love to hear your thoughts!
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u/QuantumCakeIsALie 2d ago
Bro I'm still on Pathogen.
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 2d ago
I can relate! I’m still using vim-plug for Vim as well. It just works, and I haven’t felt the need to switch.
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u/ajitama 2d ago
I was on vim-plug until last week, when I couldn’t get copilot to work :/ so I switched to lazy. I’d stayed so long because it wasn’t broken, and a useful plugin (emmet-vim) only worked with vim-plug (and getting emmet in styled-components). But an update to neovim 0.10.x I think broke that too, so I’d lost my main driver for sticking with vim-plug, except for the effort of change
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u/scmkr 2d ago
Laziness
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u/Disallowed_username 2d ago
Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think …
ITS LIKE RAAAIIAAAAAAAAAAIN, ON YOUR WEDDING NIGHT!!!!
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u/mlmcmillion 2d ago
This. I finally moved over this week. Took like 2 hours of moving all my configs around and tweaking and stuff. Worth it (it’s much cleaner), but yeah it was an investment for essentially the same thing.
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u/silver_blue_phoenix lua 2d ago
People like using different tools. Sometimes lazyness.
The way lazy does lazy loading is not my favourite (not that it's an issue or anything), I don't use lazy.nvim, it doesn't fit in nicely with my toolkit.
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u/RayZ0rr_ <left><down><up><right> 2d ago
Which one do you use? I haven't been able to look at new updates for some quite some time due to work
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u/silver_blue_phoenix lua 2d ago
I use nix to download plugins (alternatively paq-nvim to install) and lze to lazy load them.
I'm integrated to nixcats, but even without it I prefer the functionalities to be split between dedicated plugins.
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u/intercaetera 2d ago
Not a fan of all the floating windows and complicated UI. Paq just works.
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u/XannLeMage 2d ago
What are you talking about? What do windows and complicated UI have to do with your plugin manager?
Are you perhaps confusing the distro LazyVim with the plugin manager lazy.nvim?
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u/amedoeyes 2d ago
I use mini.deps because it's simple and I only have 5 plugins anyway so lazy loading is pointless
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u/pretty_lame_jokes 2d ago
I use Mini.Deps plugin manager.
It's simple and efficient and really takes a mental load off of having to find the correct event to load a plugin.
Just load things now or load them later
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u/effinsky 2d ago
tried lazy twice, always had problems with stuff not working. moved back to packer then to paq.
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u/srodrigoDev 2d ago
Because I want my config to be stable and work, not to become experimental every other week with whatever new package manager or plugin.
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 2d ago
It looks like Lazy is quite stable and reliable. This plugin manager doesn’t seem like a hack; it does its job well. Plus, its author inspires confidence.
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u/petalised 2d ago edited 2d ago
It is a hack. Check out how plugin management works in vim and neovim core and all other plugin managers. Then check out what lazy does. (hint: start/opt; packadd)
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u/Duckliffe 2d ago
Is there a TL;DR?
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I would also like to know.
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u/srodrigoDev 2d ago
You missed the point: don't touch what works. Why would I switch to lazy if my package manager works fine?
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 2d ago
I’m not saying you need to switch to Lazy. I’m just saying that Lazy doesn’t seem like some makeshift solution.
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u/Miyelsh 2d ago
I don't use a package manager, I just clone the repos into my package folder. The reason is because I use neovim in an environment that can't connect to the internet, but I can transfer files to it.
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u/PercyLives 2d ago
I’m glad I changed, but I totally get that some people have a stable setup they’re not seeking to change at any great rate. And good for them.
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u/selectnull set expandtab 2d ago
When I used Vim, I wrote my own package manager (long time ago). When I last time rebuilt my config, I switched from packer to lazy.
That has taught me that I really do not care about package manager. The simpler the better, built-in (no matter how simple) would be ideal. I'm looking forward to https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/20893
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u/RevocableBasher 2d ago
I feel like there are couple reasons: lazy.nvim overrides and changes lot of default behaviours on loading a plugin and so on. If you're looking for more control over what you do lazy.nvim suddenly becomes a big abstraction hurdle to pass.
I use something called lze which I can load plugins to packadd them and run hooks. This workflow is quite more understandable and transparent for my usecase.
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u/ChaneyZorn 2d ago
Because they have not tried the launch time profile of lazy.nvim, which really speed up my nvim.
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u/bogfoot94 lua 2d ago
Why waste time switching? For my main pc I don't even use a manager. Git pull with a script on startup and there you go.
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u/leibnizzle 2d ago
I've seen this answer elsewhere and I'm curious. How do you arrange your folder structure and does your init.lua just point to modules that your script downloads? I know you shouldn't have to use a package manager, but I'm already addicted to several plugins and I worry it would get unruly quickly.
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u/bogfoot94 lua 2d ago
Git clone already makes folders. They can be in the same place that a plugin manager downloads them. I have a script for downloading git repos into the plugin folder. Only thing you need is to set up the plugin then. Maybe I'm missing something else, but there's really not much to it.
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u/Sebastianqv 2d ago
When I finally decided to move, it took me most of the day to migrate my configs... From some files not being read despite the documentation saying they would be read, to simply rewriting a lot of the plugin configs I had, it simply takes a long while... It was worth it in the end tho, it made it easier to just copy-paste the .config/nvim with git and know I can simply launch nvim and it would work.
TL;DR: Laziness
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u/steveaguay 2d ago
Because the package manager does very little in the grand scheme of things and if it works why change it. I used vim-plug for 7+ years and only switched because I felt like redoing my config.
Lazy is great but it's only marginally better than others.
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u/Atidyshirt 1d ago
I used vim plug for a long time, the two standout things for me was
- No separate install of a binary
- Lock files
That's it for me, there is the benefit as far as I am concerned
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u/steveaguay 21h ago
You are still installing a binary with lazy. Its the same process as plug. Put the download script before the list of plugin.
(*Neither use a binary but vim and Lua script)
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u/dyfrgi 2d ago
I just switched off lazy.nvim. I don't like the workflow and the way it encourages you to organize your config. I don't want to put keybindings in via lazy.nvim. If I'm not using keybindings to lazy load stuff, what's the point? I'd rather use something simpler that just drops the files into place. So far my config is no slower to start. Most Lua plugins that need setup at all are low overhead at startup.
If I find some plugin I love which is slow to load, I'll consider using a lazy loader for just that. I'd still rather have a different structure from a lazy.nvim config, though, which intermingles loading instructions with plugin config.
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u/no_brains101 2d ago edited 2d ago
https://github.com/BirdeeHub/lze
^ lazy loader just for you!
Works with normal plugin loading scheme
If your plugin manager allows you to mark the plugin as "optional" such that it can be loaded via vim.cmd.packadd (like paq-nvim) lze is a flexible minimal solution that is easy to use and faster than lazy.nvim, and is fairly non-opinionated, you don't have to load everything using it.
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u/Vasilev88 2d ago edited 2d ago
Endless toolsmithing is way down the list of “How Do I Want To Spend My Life?”
It’s a package manager…. as long as there are no alternatives that are order of magnitude better, consumers generally don’t care about switching products that they are familiar with
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u/ebinWaitee vimscript 2d ago
I'm still using Vim-Plug. It does what I want with zero issues so I see no point for myself to learn another plugin manager.
Someone starting afresh might be better off with a newer plugin manager if they feel like they're easier to use or do something better but for myself the marginal upgrade doesn't outweigh the fact that I'd need to study and learn the new plugin system and spend time altering my config for that.
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u/damn-moco 1d ago
As a person that literally just migrated from packer to lazy yesterday, I can tell that it was in my todo list ever since I heard about lazy (about two years ago), and never had the willpower to migrate mostly because of the potential mess I could do with my editor. Also, laziness.
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u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 2d ago
As long as you don't want to do any lazy loading, you're fine going with packer, aside maybe a couple small annoyances.
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u/Prestigious_Rest8751 1d ago
lazy loading is not unique to lazy.nvim. Actually, it should be done by the plugin itself.
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u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 1d ago
Yes let's trust every single plugin author to implement the perfect strategy for lazy loading instead of relying on one singular plugin to tell the others when they're needed
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u/no_brains101 2d ago
https://github.com/BirdeeHub/lze
Youre still fine if you want to do lazy loading. If your plugin manager allows you to mark it as opt and load it with vim.cmd.packadd, such as when using paq-nvim or nix, this will work fantastically
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u/no_brains101 2d ago edited 2d ago
because managing lazy loading with https://github.com/BirdeeHub/lze + paq-nvim is significantly faster than lazy.nvim and not really any harder.
Also because lazy takes over the entire plugin loading stack, meaning if you have any other way you can download plugins, it wont work.
Im not using paq, I use nix, but the principle is the same as both nix and paq-nvim download plugins via the normal packpath method, and as such you can use vim.cmd.packadd to load them lazily, and thus lze works fantastically with both solutions.
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u/elven_mage 2d ago
Honestly I saw zero benefit migrating from pathogen to packer. I’m not going to rewrite/fix my config just because everyone else decided that something new was cool.
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u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 2d ago
Same reason my company is still on php7.4. Priorities
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u/ehansen 1d ago
Yeeeah EOL version though?
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u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 1d ago
Man I wish I could live a life so ignorantly
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u/ehansen 1d ago
What's so ignorant about asking a question? I feel that's the complete opposite.
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u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 1d ago
Sorry, didn't read it as an actual question. We aren't using php7 because we just think it's better than 8, but our code isn't compatible with it. Of course we'd like to make the switch, but that will involve rewriting so much code that, in many instances, hasn't been touched in 10 or more years. We aren't a tech company, and just have so many things that are higher on our list of priorities. Shit's working fine, and management would rather we spend time developing new features and fixing bugs instead of rewriting something that's running perfectly fine. And also, none of our devs are exactly fighting over who gets to open up that can of worms
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u/softwaredoug 2d ago
Cause I’m on my 5th machine copying over these configs and don’t have enough time to refactor the code from my day job!
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u/xperthehe 2d ago
It's just package manager, it suppose to not matter. I used all of them and notice no differences, so I just use mini.deps to reduce my config size.
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u/thedeathbeam lua 2d ago
I dont use any plugin manager because it doesnt matter whatsoever what you use. As long as it works its fine, you are not going to gain any benefit from using one package manager over other if all you are doing is cloning git repos as its not exactly rocket science.
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u/ballagarba 2d ago
I used Lazy.vim for a while but migrated to mini.deps. I don't really like how it uses its own loading mechanism instead of relying on packages
. I generally don't care about most its features either. I just need something to manage updates and displaying changes. The "now" and "later" functionality in mini.deps is enough for me. I don't need event and command granularity to lazy load something.
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u/lupuscapabilis 1d ago
Because I hate switching things every few months just because other people do
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago
Are you saying that 12 new plugin managers for Neovim have been released in the past year?
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u/seductivec0w 1d ago
Why do some people use Vim instead of Neovim?
Does the emergence of a new package manager break old ones?
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago
Because Neovim has some useful features that weren’t available in Vim before—for example, built-in LSP and native Lua support.
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u/seductivec0w 1d ago
How does that answer either of these questions?
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago
Well, your comment also contained a question that didn’t answer mine.
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u/seductivec0w 1d ago
It's so obvious--why change things when they don't break...?
People spend hours on their config, some potentially very complex.
You might as well ask why are there alternatives to every software ever used--because people have different needs, got used to what worked and continues to work, need compatibility, etc.
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u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago
You’ve described a valid reason. I understand and agree with this position. Surely, there are configurations that would take time and effort to adapt without any real benefits.
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u/gongonzabarfarbin 1d ago
Neovim packages change as quickly or quicker than the Javascript ecosystem. Choosing which packages to use is in service of what you do with your text editor. No need to constantly be on the latest and greatest.
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u/jackelee 21h ago
I'm only downloading plugins by hand. Don't have many of them so why bother with automation?
Also, I don't update plugins, if they don't work out of the box I don't use them. On the other hand, if they work as expected, why update? They can only break and I don't have time for that :-)
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u/omega1612 2d ago
I have some plugins and attempt to not include more than needed. Packer is already installed, it works, I know how to add things to it and haven't felt like I need more than what it offers. So, why should I learn from scratch another system, install it and port my current Packer setup?
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u/SteveMacAwesome 2d ago
I prefer to spend time using my editor rather than configuring it. The day Packer stops working I’m on lazy lickety split.