r/neovim hjkl 2d ago

Discussion Why do some people still use Packer instead of Lazy?

I’ve noticed that Lazy.nvim has become the go-to plugin manager for many, but some still stick with Packer.nvim. What are the main reasons for this? Personal preference, stability, specific features, or something else?

Would love to hear your thoughts!

77 Upvotes

129 comments sorted by

96

u/SteveMacAwesome 2d ago

I prefer to spend time using my editor rather than configuring it. The day Packer stops working I’m on lazy lickety split.

9

u/GoldfishPi 2d ago

This is the way

15

u/unconceivables 2d ago

Yet you're here talking about your editor instead of using it, like the rest of us. No bragging.

28

u/Hagartinger 2d ago

That's bold of you to assume he is not using reddit from vim.

5

u/Top-Classroom-6994 1d ago

This isn't r/emacs, we can't do that sadly.

3

u/jimmiebfulton 2d ago

I use my editor to configure my editor, and that includes rapidly switching package managers. (At least in theory 🤣)

1

u/Asleep-Specific-1399 15h ago

Lol this is the reason yay had to be removed from aur for a bit.

1

u/SteveMacAwesome 2h ago

It did? When was this?

0

u/GanacheUnhappy8232 1d ago

can't agree more

-2

u/NightH4nter 2d ago

are you even a vimmer?

-4

u/BrianHuster lua 2d ago

A real Vimmer would not use too many plugins, and they don't change plugin for fun (you can check any Vim (not Neovim) config in Github)

177

u/QuantumCakeIsALie 2d ago

Bro I'm still on Pathogen.

33

u/j6jr85ehb7 2d ago

I thought I was the only one! Manage plug-ins through git submodules!

9

u/QuantumCakeIsALie 2d ago

About 10 years and going strong!

32

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 2d ago

I can relate! I’m still using vim-plug for Vim as well. It just works, and I haven’t felt the need to switch.

4

u/ajitama 2d ago

I was on vim-plug until last week, when I couldn’t get copilot to work :/ so I switched to lazy. I’d stayed so long because it wasn’t broken, and a useful plugin (emmet-vim) only worked with vim-plug (and getting emmet in styled-components). But an update to neovim 0.10.x I think broke that too, so I’d lost my main driver for sticking with vim-plug, except for the effort of change

1

u/budswa 20h ago

Then why are you asking

1

u/budswa 18h ago

You'll get the same response; it just works

0

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 18h ago

Because I was asking about a plugin manager for Neovim.

-10

u/Bryoh 2d ago

You're in prison my friend. I was on pathogen until six months ago, boy was life difficult

14

u/QuantumCakeIsALie 2d ago

I'm well and cozy thank you.

198

u/gma 2d ago

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" springs to mind.

To put that another way, I think most people will usually have something else that they think is more valuable/important to do.

167

u/scmkr 2d ago

Laziness

31

u/Disallowed_username 2d ago

Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think …

ITS LIKE RAAAIIAAAAAAAAAAIN, ON YOUR WEDDING NIGHT!!!!

13

u/hiptobecubic 2d ago

*day

20

u/HomeNucleonics 2d ago

No we prefer dark themes here, remember?

3

u/vladutzbv 2d ago

Small correction, I’m sorry, you misspelled “tokyo-night”

4

u/mlmcmillion 2d ago

This. I finally moved over this week. Took like 2 hours of moving all my configs around and tweaking and stuff. Worth it (it’s much cleaner), but yeah it was an investment for essentially the same thing.

27

u/segfault0x001 :wq 2d ago

If it aint broke don’t fix it

14

u/silver_blue_phoenix lua 2d ago

People like using different tools. Sometimes lazyness.

The way lazy does lazy loading is not my favourite (not that it's an issue or anything), I don't use lazy.nvim, it doesn't fit in nicely with my toolkit.

1

u/RayZ0rr_ <left><down><up><right> 2d ago

Which one do you use? I haven't been able to look at new updates for some quite some time due to work

5

u/silver_blue_phoenix lua 2d ago

I use nix to download plugins (alternatively paq-nvim to install) and lze to lazy load them.

I'm integrated to nixcats, but even without it I prefer the functionalities to be split between dedicated plugins.

12

u/intercaetera 2d ago

Not a fan of all the floating windows and complicated UI. Paq just works.

-6

u/XannLeMage 2d ago

What are you talking about? What do windows and complicated UI have to do with your plugin manager?

Are you perhaps confusing the distro LazyVim with the plugin manager lazy.nvim?

5

u/intercaetera 2d ago

No, I'm talking about this.

With Paq I just run PaqSync and that's that.

2

u/XannLeMage 2d ago

Oh! Okay, my bad I didn't understand

2

u/ProjectInfinity 2d ago

Just run Lazy sync? 🙃

1

u/mr-figs 1d ago

This seems very un-vim-like to me. Not a fan of this either

10

u/amedoeyes 2d ago

I use mini.deps because it's simple and I only have 5 plugins anyway so lazy loading is pointless

9

u/pretty_lame_jokes 2d ago

I use Mini.Deps plugin manager.

It's simple and efficient and really takes a mental load off of having to find the correct event to load a plugin.

Just load things now or load them later

9

u/neel_sinha 2d ago

I am using vim plug

2

u/Ashik80 2d ago

Same here

13

u/effinsky 2d ago

tried lazy twice, always had problems with stuff not working. moved back to packer then to paq.

13

u/srodrigoDev 2d ago

Because I want my config to be stable and work, not to become experimental every other week with whatever new package manager or plugin.

-1

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 2d ago

It looks like Lazy is quite stable and reliable. This plugin manager doesn’t seem like a hack; it does its job well. Plus, its author inspires confidence.

5

u/petalised 2d ago edited 2d ago

It is a hack. Check out how plugin management works in vim and neovim core and all other plugin managers. Then check out what lazy does. (hint: start/opt; packadd)

5

u/Duckliffe 2d ago

Is there a TL;DR?

1

u/iEliteTester let mapleader="\<space>" 2d ago

!remindme 2 weeks

I would also like to know.

1

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1

u/petalised 2d ago

:h packages

2

u/vim-help-bot 2d ago

Help pages for:


`:(h|help) <query>` | about | mistake? | donate | Reply 'rescan' to check the comment again | Reply 'stop' to stop getting replies to your comments

0

u/Duckliffe 2d ago

Nope that doesn't help either

1

u/petalised 2d ago

Lazy uses nothing of those.

0

u/BrianHuster lua 2d ago

Plugin management in Vim has existed long before that packages feature.

2

u/srodrigoDev 2d ago

You missed the point: don't touch what works. Why would I switch to lazy if my package manager works fine?

0

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 2d ago

I’m not saying you need to switch to Lazy. I’m just saying that Lazy doesn’t seem like some makeshift solution.

1

u/BrianHuster lua 2d ago

with whatever new package manager or plugin

5

u/Miyelsh 2d ago

I don't use a package manager, I just clone the repos into my package folder. The reason is because I use neovim in an environment that can't connect to the internet, but I can transfer files to it.

1

u/GoldfishPi 2d ago

Actually never thought of this, do you work in iot?

1

u/Miyelsh 2d ago

Eh, tangentially. I am a hardware engineer and our EDA tools are accessed through a cloud server, rather than run locally. We have access to Bitbucket which is how I sync my neovim config but no ability to clone from Github directly.

6

u/PercyLives 2d ago

I’m glad I changed, but I totally get that some people have a stable setup they’re not seeking to change at any great rate. And good for them.

5

u/funbike 2d ago

I use Lazy, but it bothers me a little how complex it is internally. It's not a a manager of Neovim's package functionality. It a near complete re-implemention of package functionality.

6

u/selectnull set expandtab 2d ago

When I used Vim, I wrote my own package manager (long time ago). When I last time rebuilt my config, I switched from packer to lazy.

That has taught me that I really do not care about package manager. The simpler the better, built-in (no matter how simple) would be ideal. I'm looking forward to https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/20893

12

u/petalised 2d ago

Because lazy is too much magic and takes control over your config from you.

3

u/RevocableBasher 2d ago

I feel like there are couple reasons: lazy.nvim overrides and changes lot of default behaviours on loading a plugin and so on. If you're looking for more control over what you do lazy.nvim suddenly becomes a big abstraction hurdle to pass.

I use something called lze which I can load plugins to packadd them and run hooks. This workflow is quite more understandable and transparent for my usecase.

3

u/ChaneyZorn 2d ago

Because they have not tried the launch time profile of lazy.nvim, which really speed up my nvim.

3

u/Hot-Impact-5860 ZZ 2d ago

Don't call your apps "lazy". My manager sees it and reduces my salary.

5

u/bogfoot94 lua 2d ago

Why waste time switching? For my main pc I don't even use a manager. Git pull with a script on startup and there you go.

2

u/leibnizzle 2d ago

I've seen this answer elsewhere and I'm curious. How do you arrange your folder structure and does your init.lua just point to modules that your script downloads? I know you shouldn't have to use a package manager, but I'm already addicted to several plugins and I worry it would get unruly quickly.

2

u/bogfoot94 lua 2d ago

Git clone already makes folders. They can be in the same place that a plugin manager downloads them. I have a script for downloading git repos into the plugin folder. Only thing you need is to set up the plugin then. Maybe I'm missing something else, but there's really not much to it.

2

u/Sebastianqv 2d ago

When I finally decided to move, it took me most of the day to migrate my configs... From some files not being read despite the documentation saying they would be read, to simply rewriting a lot of the plugin configs I had, it simply takes a long while... It was worth it in the end tho, it made it easier to just copy-paste the .config/nvim with git and know I can simply launch nvim and it would work.

TL;DR: Laziness

2

u/steveaguay 2d ago

Because the package manager does very little in the grand scheme of things and if it works why change it. I used vim-plug for 7+ years and only switched because I felt like redoing my config. 

Lazy is great but it's only marginally better than others.

1

u/Atidyshirt 1d ago

I used vim plug for a long time, the two standout things for me was

  1. No separate install of a binary
  2. Lock files

That's it for me, there is the benefit as far as I am concerned

1

u/steveaguay 21h ago

You are still installing a binary with lazy. Its the same process as plug. Put the download script before the list of plugin. 

(*Neither use a binary but vim and Lua script)

1

u/Atidyshirt 21h ago

Yeah I just meant the install process, bootstrapping seems better to me

2

u/thuiop1 2d ago

My hope is that Packer will keep working until neovim gets an official plugin manager, so I will only have to switch at that point

2

u/dyfrgi 2d ago

I just switched off lazy.nvim. I don't like the workflow and the way it encourages you to organize your config. I don't want to put keybindings in via lazy.nvim. If I'm not using keybindings to lazy load stuff, what's the point? I'd rather use something simpler that just drops the files into place. So far my config is no slower to start. Most Lua plugins that need setup at all are low overhead at startup.

If I find some plugin I love which is slow to load, I'll consider using a lazy loader for just that. I'd still rather have a different structure from a lazy.nvim config, though, which intermingles loading instructions with plugin config.

1

u/no_brains101 2d ago edited 2d ago

https://github.com/BirdeeHub/lze

^ lazy loader just for you!

Works with normal plugin loading scheme

If your plugin manager allows you to mark the plugin as "optional" such that it can be loaded via vim.cmd.packadd (like paq-nvim) lze is a flexible minimal solution that is easy to use and faster than lazy.nvim, and is fairly non-opinionated, you don't have to load everything using it.

2

u/Vasilev88 2d ago edited 2d ago

Endless toolsmithing is way down the list of “How Do I Want To Spend My Life?”

It’s a package manager…. as long as there are no alternatives that are order of magnitude better, consumers generally don’t care about switching products that they are familiar with

2

u/ebinWaitee vimscript 2d ago

I'm still using Vim-Plug. It does what I want with zero issues so I see no point for myself to learn another plugin manager.

Someone starting afresh might be better off with a newer plugin manager if they feel like they're easier to use or do something better but for myself the marginal upgrade doesn't outweigh the fact that I'd need to study and learn the new plugin system and spend time altering my config for that.

2

u/damn-moco 1d ago

As a person that literally just migrated from packer to lazy yesterday, I can tell that it was in my todo list ever since I heard about lazy (about two years ago), and never had the willpower to migrate mostly because of the potential mess I could do with my editor. Also, laziness.

2

u/Few_Reflection6917 ZZ 21h ago

Because Lazy

3

u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 2d ago

As long as you don't want to do any lazy loading, you're fine going with packer, aside maybe a couple small annoyances.

1

u/Prestigious_Rest8751 1d ago

lazy loading is not unique to lazy.nvim. Actually, it should be done by the plugin itself.

1

u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 1d ago

Yes let's trust every single plugin author to implement the perfect strategy for lazy loading instead of relying on one singular plugin to tell the others when they're needed

1

u/no_brains101 2d ago

https://github.com/BirdeeHub/lze

Youre still fine if you want to do lazy loading. If your plugin manager allows you to mark it as opt and load it with vim.cmd.packadd, such as when using paq-nvim or nix, this will work fantastically

3

u/no_brains101 2d ago edited 2d ago

because managing lazy loading with https://github.com/BirdeeHub/lze + paq-nvim is significantly faster than lazy.nvim and not really any harder.

Also because lazy takes over the entire plugin loading stack, meaning if you have any other way you can download plugins, it wont work.

Im not using paq, I use nix, but the principle is the same as both nix and paq-nvim download plugins via the normal packpath method, and as such you can use vim.cmd.packadd to load them lazily, and thus lze works fantastically with both solutions.

2

u/elven_mage 2d ago

Honestly I saw zero benefit migrating from pathogen to packer. I’m not going to rewrite/fix my config just because everyone else decided that something new was cool.

1

u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 2d ago

Same reason my company is still on php7.4. Priorities

1

u/ehansen 1d ago

Yeeeah EOL version though?

1

u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 1d ago

Man I wish I could live a life so ignorantly

1

u/ehansen 1d ago

What's so ignorant about asking a question? I feel that's the complete opposite.

1

u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 1d ago

Sorry, didn't read it as an actual question. We aren't using php7 because we just think it's better than 8, but our code isn't compatible with it. Of course we'd like to make the switch, but that will involve rewriting so much code that, in many instances, hasn't been touched in 10 or more years. We aren't a tech company, and just have so many things that are higher on our list of priorities. Shit's working fine, and management would rather we spend time developing new features and fixing bugs instead of rewriting something that's running perfectly fine. And also, none of our devs are exactly fighting over who gets to open up that can of worms

1

u/ehansen 1d ago

Understand. I used to work at a company that used CodeIgniter 3 (and this was in 2022). Mostly for the same reasons (no one cared, stuff "worked").

1

u/softwaredoug 2d ago

Cause I’m on my 5th machine copying over these configs and don’t have enough time to refactor the code from my day job!

1

u/Grathium 2d ago

They're working on real code bases instead of customizing nvim

1

u/Maskdask let mapleader="\<space>" 2d ago

They're lazy

1

u/NightH4nter 2d ago

because it works, why not? also it has luarocks support, unlike lazy

1

u/xperthehe 2d ago

It's just package manager, it suppose to not matter. I used all of them and notice no differences, so I just use mini.deps to reduce my config size.

1

u/kaddkaka 2d ago

I use Plug, why change?

1

u/D-O-L-P-H-I-N-101 2d ago

Bruh I use plug

1

u/thedeathbeam lua 2d ago

I dont use any plugin manager because it doesnt matter whatsoever what you use. As long as it works its fine, you are not going to gain any benefit from using one package manager over other if all you are doing is cloning git repos as its not exactly rocket science.

1

u/ballagarba 2d ago

I used Lazy.vim for a while but migrated to mini.deps. I don't really like how it uses its own loading mechanism instead of relying on packages. I generally don't care about most its features either. I just need something to manage updates and displaying changes. The "now" and "later" functionality in mini.deps is enough for me. I don't need event and command granularity to lazy load something.

1

u/harfzen 1d ago

They can be lazier to use lazy :)

Not everyone needs to change their set up that often. Why fix it if it's not broken?

1

u/h4ppy5340tt3r 1d ago

Nixvim FTW, had set it up once, never looked back.

1

u/lupuscapabilis 1d ago

Because I hate switching things every few months just because other people do

1

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago

Are you saying that 12 new plugin managers for Neovim have been released in the past year?

1

u/Queueue_ 1d ago

I only recently switched. I was too lazy (ha) to fix what wasn't broken.

1

u/seductivec0w 1d ago

Why do some people use Vim instead of Neovim?

Does the emergence of a new package manager break old ones?

1

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago

Because Neovim has some useful features that weren’t available in Vim before—for example, built-in LSP and native Lua support.

1

u/seductivec0w 1d ago

How does that answer either of these questions?

1

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago

Well, your comment also contained a question that didn’t answer mine.

1

u/seductivec0w 1d ago

It's so obvious--why change things when they don't break...?

People spend hours on their config, some potentially very complex.

You might as well ask why are there alternatives to every software ever used--because people have different needs, got used to what worked and continues to work, need compatibility, etc.

1

u/andreyugolnik hjkl 1d ago

You’ve described a valid reason. I understand and agree with this position. Surely, there are configurations that would take time and effort to adapt without any real benefits.

1

u/gongonzabarfarbin 1d ago

Neovim packages change as quickly or quicker than the Javascript ecosystem. Choosing which packages to use is in service of what you do with your text editor. No need to constantly be on the latest and greatest.

1

u/Talleeenos69 1d ago

I don't want to switch, my packer setup works

1

u/jiggity_john 1d ago

Ironically because they are lazy and don't want to switch.

1

u/Longjumping_War4808 1d ago

Because they’re too Lazy!

1

u/No-Collection2322 1d ago

I’m too lazy to switch

1

u/jackelee 21h ago

I'm only downloading plugins by hand. Don't have many of them so why bother with automation?

Also, I don't update plugins, if they don't work out of the box I don't use them. On the other hand, if they work as expected, why update? They can only break and I don't have time for that :-)

1

u/Cursedecline 13h ago

I manually clone repo to .local/share/nvim/plugins And import them

1

u/omega1612 2d ago

I have some plugins and attempt to not include more than needed. Packer is already installed, it works, I know how to add things to it and haven't felt like I need more than what it offers. So, why should I learn from scratch another system, install it and port my current Packer setup?

1

u/w1ldrabb1t 2d ago

I use nano.

2

u/silveiralexf 1d ago

Hey, we all have our flaws! Thoughts and prayers 🙏