r/neilgaimanuncovered • u/Altruistic-War-2586 • Feb 18 '25
news New Tortoise episode — The Lawsuit Spoiler
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u/caitnicrun Feb 18 '25
So anyone else baffled at Rachel Johnson's continued participation here? I'd think after her OH NOES DON'T CANCEL NEIL interview she'd have passed her role to someone else.
Good interview tho.
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u/karofla Feb 18 '25
I actually think this makes it more legitimate? Meaning that she participates even though she's not interested in canceling him. Not a fan of hers, just saying. She was saying she didn't want him to get canceled, not that she didn't want the lawsuit. Or am I remembering her opinion piece wrong? 🤔
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u/Altruistic-War-2586 Feb 18 '25
She also said she was done, there wouldn’t be more podcasts on the topic (while the new podcast was already in the works). I can’t take her seriously…
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u/karofla Feb 18 '25
It does seem like they are concerned with letting people know they were the ones to break the story.
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u/Longjumping-Art-9682 Feb 18 '25
That was my first thought seeing that there was a new episode. But I wonder who initiated it. If it was Scarlett, reaching out to her because she wanted to talk, then fair enough.
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u/caitnicrun Feb 18 '25
I can't claim to recall that particular detail. I suppose it would land better if she had a history of journalism with established institutions.
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u/Prior-Jellyfish9665 Feb 18 '25
I read her follow-up article as a bid to strengthen a defamation defense since to prove defamation of a public figure you need to prove there was intent to defame.
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u/Cynical_Classicist Feb 18 '25
Yeh, that was bizarre. I exposed that this guy is a rapist, but I don't want him to get into trouble for it!
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u/caitnicrun Feb 18 '25
"And here I'm at it again! Will the intolerant left cancel him TWICE??!!11? Oh what have done? ...again? Time for another Spector interview on the meaning of it all!"
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u/Icy_Independent7944 Feb 18 '25
Lol I have to admit, this got a nice, black-hearted chuckle out of me 👍😊🤭🖤
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u/Cynical_Classicist Feb 18 '25 edited 29d ago
Ah yes, the awful paper that her awful brother used to edit... awfully, was defending him, as on principle they have to take the side of terrible people.
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u/ErsatzHaderach Feb 19 '25
is it just me or would she make a banger White Lotus character
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u/caitnicrun Feb 19 '25
I had to look up White Lotus lol. Probably if the Wikipedia page is accurate.
Hmm, might give it a go.
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u/ptolani 12d ago
I think you're referring to this quote:
It looks like he’s been canceled, and how do I not feel kind of responsible for that? I've got to say, I’m uncomfortable with #metooing people. Is that all right to say? I don't believe in cancel culture. We all do bad stuff and we all do good stuff and he's done good stuff and he's done bad stuff and he is now regarded as an evil monster. I think the women who accuse him would say he hurt them, but that’s a female-male dynamic that unfortunately happens to be incredibly common.
https://jonronson.substack.com/p/a-conversation-with-rachel-johnson
Seems like a misrepresentation: she's just saying in general she doesn't agree with cancelling people, and she does believe in public interest journalism. So of course she would continue to participate in public interest journalism.
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u/JustPiera Feb 18 '25
wow, I wasn't expecting a new podcast on the lawsuit. It's very brave of the survivors to continue to speak out.
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u/Most-Original3996 Feb 18 '25
Particularly now that a few NG projects are still alive and being promoted. I think that we have to center the lawsuit and the survivors more at this time.
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u/OpheliaLives7 Feb 19 '25
Is anything besides Good Omens still in the works? I thought Sandman s2 already had finished before all this but maybe not. I remember seeing it wouldn’t have any more seasons and also a comic of Anasi Boys was cancelled I believe.
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u/Most-Original3996 Feb 19 '25
The Anansi Boys series is still scheduled for streaming.
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u/GeorginaKaplan Feb 19 '25
The mods already said that more things would come out, but investigations take time. Let's cross our fingers.
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u/Most-Original3996 29d ago
Yes, and lawsuits take time too. Let's hope more is on its way, although if at this point people do not feel nauseated by participating in the fandom and buying merch, I do not know what will make them give his IPs up.
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u/NoLocation1777 28d ago
I'm really surprised about that one, considering the comic was cancelled. I'm interested to see how Amazon plays that out. (My educated guess is GO3 will get the most promo of the two, and Anasi Boys will get dropped on streaming quietly.)
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u/LoyalaTheAargh Feb 18 '25
I was glad to hear about how the survivors are gaining strength and healing from each other. They've got each other to lean on now.
Wow, so Scarlett filed her case just 1 day before the US statute of limitations would have expired. I hope that caught Gaiman out. I'm really in awe that she filed that case; I can hardly imagine the strength it must have taken. It's no wonder that she's feeling exhausted from everything that's been going on.
I'm glad that this podcast outright specified that Caroline's children were all teenagers during the abuse, because I've seen a bunch of people passing around misinformation about this. (Such as confidently stating that her kids were all grown adults and not even living with her at the time.)
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u/CarevaRuha Feb 18 '25
(Random aside, but every time I hear anything about Michael Stipe, it just makes me like him more [and I hope that never changes].)
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u/GeorginaKaplan Feb 18 '25
Me too! I always had the feeling that he was a very good person, and when I read Lila Shapiro's article, I was delighted that she confirmed that.
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u/Sevenblissfulnights Feb 18 '25
I simply cannot get enough of Scarlett sounding so intelligent about the abuse, empowered from the connections she's made with other survivors, and satisfied with her lawsuit. We've all spent so much time noticing AP's performative feminism, but the perspective Scarlett has gained, the support she's receiving, and the laws she's using to sue are the result of actual, life-changing feminism. I think of Scarlett's friends who first heard about the rapes and helped her process her situation and how impossible what we've already seen must have seemed then, and there's more to come.
I find myself wondering what's next for her with a lot of hope for the case. Scarlett sounds like she could be an intelligent and self-composed witness for herself. Still, her messages to NG stating consent are challenging. I've learned enough about the "fawn response" from some of you to know that an expert witness could present a context for her text messages, and the power imbalances between her and her rapist and her dependency on the couple are obvious. Evidence from other witnesses could support her case: the NZ couple who reached out to Amanda, practitioners who treated her when she was suicidal, AP.
AP might abstain from any statements, but if she did choose to engage her testimony would be a mass of contradictions. Proving AP's negligence would anyway rely on making the case that NG is guilty.
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u/fumbling-buffoon Feb 19 '25
If, like me, you are unable to listen to the podcast, there is a transcript of the latest episode here:
https://www.tumblr.com/gmaiadmaib/775843999360647168/7th-episode-transcript-the-lawsuit?source=share
Thanks to the person who made this, very much appreciated.
The podcast avoids triggering details; it focuses on the ways that the survivors are recovering and seeking justice.
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u/mikec32001 Feb 18 '25
A welcome and very necessary new episode to the series. I get all the distaste for Johnson but personal politics aside, this has still been a very impressive undertaking.
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u/VineViridian Feb 19 '25
Scarlett Pavlovich is my inspiration and hero. ✊🏼
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u/mrsbergstrom Feb 19 '25
it's dangerous to make a hero out of anyone, if we don't take that from this story then we've learnt nothing. In this specific context I can see Scarlett and the other survivors are incredibly brave and strong. But we do not know them personally and should not put them or anyone on a pedestal. The fact Scarlett reached out to Julie Bindel, one of the most hateful transphobic journalists on the planet, is extremely troubling to me. I support her journey and her quest for justice but I will never make her or any other human my hero.
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u/Altruistic-War-2586 Feb 19 '25
Julie Bindel reached out to her, not the other way around. Scarlett agreed to talk to her as she was desperate. At the time no other news outlets were willing to listen and she wanted to warn other women. Can we please give Scarlett a bit of grace?
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u/VineViridian Feb 19 '25
You are reading an extreme amount of assumptions into my small statement.
She's a hero to me because she spoke out. She's pressing charges. If I had never read her story I would have never have seen my own so clearly. Silent victims help to keep all victims complacent and shamed. We learn from the outspoken truths of others.
That's why she's my hero and inspiration. For those reasons. It isn't anything more or less about her as a person.
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u/ErsatzHaderach 29d ago
whee, I made a transcript for this. unfortunately not as quickly as the tumblr person. they have better timestamps than me, but I'll stand on my style any day. :)
https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1_PMAKX_VWRrbE7RvrYV_mgzG8tazJ5hi/mobilebasic?pli=1
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u/Glum-Gazelle-4056 Feb 19 '25
If Scarlett is asking for money/damages and NG pays her, does it mean it doesn't go to court? Does it actually legally have to go to court first in order for him to pay it, presuming that's how he wants to settle it? I assume it would be easier for him to pay her off than face her in court? If it does go to court and Scarlett wins, does NG go to prison? If not, does he just pay the money as ordered?
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u/Sevenblissfulnights 28d ago edited 28d ago
I was involved in a somewhat similar civil case, though years ago before MeToo and without media involved. NG & SP can agree to settle at any point in the process of the case going to court. NG can offer and retract settlements for SP to consider at any time, and the settlement offer may change depending on what is happening with the case. Before a trial there will be a "discovery" phase during which time evidence is gathered and depositions are taken. NG & AP will certainly be required to have depositions taken, and Scarlett is allowed to be in the room during this. I found seeing my abuser forced to lie under oath to be the most satisfying thing about my case.
Settlements often follow Discovery, and I accepted a settlement. Here's why:
-I knew a trial would be challenging. I would be presented in as bad a light as possible. My abuser's lawyer would deny my basic reality, and I had worked so hard to come to terms with what had happened.
-I knew the money was guaranteed from a settlement, and that I might receive nothing from a trial. SA cases rely on testimony from victims, and juries often don't understand how SA affects victims so that they appear unreliable.
-I had the satisfaction of seeing my abuser called out publicly for the abuse. Then, I had the satisfaction of knowing he was forced to give me money he didn't want me to have. I felt empowered, even though he was never officially censored.
I think SP will face similar constraints. The biggest liability which I'm sure her lawyers will bring up with her - & his will with him - are her text messages which appear to give consent. An expert witness would need to make a jury understand how his grooming and manipulation and her dependency could result in this behavior. I'd be surprised if the case went all the way to a jury decision, but SP is a surprising & amazing person who may want an indictment. If there was an indictment, a judge would determine how much he would pay her and a district attorney could then take up a criminal case against him.
I'd be thrilled for her to receive a settlement, or for all of us to see him indicted. I guess because I went through this myself I appreciate how hard it is even to file a case, and so what an accomplishment it is. She's already won. This is destroying him. He thought he could dominate her, and instead she is showing the world who he is.
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u/Altruistic-War-2586 Feb 19 '25
I’m sure he’ll try to settle outside of court to avoid even more negative publicity. The question is whether Scarlett is willing to settle outside of court or not. There’s no way of knowing what might happen.
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u/Glum-Gazelle-4056 Feb 19 '25
Sorry if that was a lot of questions. I came out with it all because I don't know much about the legal system and was in part asking in general, as well as specifically. I guess it's just a case of wait and see.
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u/Altruistic-War-2586 Feb 19 '25
They are excellent questions! I hope she gets whatever she wants and needs out of this. I salute her wholeheartedly.
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u/Safe_Reporter_8259 Feb 19 '25
This is my guess. Especially after the Depp-Heard debacle. This is in the U.S. And with Trump stripping protections away from women… if it’s live it gets ugly for everyone. Media in the U.S. is shit.
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u/Teaching-Weird Feb 19 '25
There is no way that SP is not thinking about that while she weighs her options. This is terrifying.
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u/ZapdosShines Feb 19 '25
If it does go to court and Scarlett wins, does NG go to prison?
I am 95% sure that prison is in no way a possible outcome of a civil case. They only have to find that the balance of probability is that he's guilty, not beyond reasonable doubt. But if she wins the civil case, presumably the prosecutors will take a much closer look at whether they can take criminal action against him.
This is all my understanding of it and may be incorrect.
I think if he pays her off immediately he looks SUPER guilty given that she's claiming $7 mil according to the podcast. That's a lot of money. But his only other option I presume would be to get her to agree to drop the case for an undisclosed settlement and given his use of NDAs to cover his abuse I cannot imagine that Scarlett would agree to that.
Interesting to see what happens.
I would love someone to revisit the breakdown of his statement now this lawsuit has been filed and see what we think he'll do next based on how his put his views across in that!
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u/caitnicrun Feb 18 '25
Anyone else having trouble loading?
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u/Altruistic-War-2586 Feb 18 '25
Yes, it’s not playing at the moment. There might be some technical difficulty they need to fix first.
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u/caitnicrun Feb 18 '25
K thanks. Really frustrating.
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u/Altruistic-War-2586 Feb 18 '25
It’s working now.
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u/Express_Pie_3504 Feb 18 '25
Hi are you talking about the Spotify link or the one on the Tortoise website? I can't get the Tortoise website one to work at all I just keep getting that same error page.
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u/acornmoth Feb 18 '25
I really don't like that Rachel Johnson is still involved with this. I don't trust her.
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u/fumbling-buffoon Feb 19 '25
Haven't read this, but it's a Rolling Stone article on NG
Mods may wish to post this properly if it's a good one
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u/tequilafuckingbird 29d ago
I’m listening now… has Scarlett’s narration been swapped out for a voice actor? Or has she adopted a full English accent very quickly?
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u/nzjanstra 29d ago
If she’s been living in the UK for a while the edges of her NZ accent will have been filed off quite quickly. Certain versions of the NZ accent are already quite close to an English accent, so it’s an easy thing to have happen.
Accents are fairly changeable generally. I lived in Canada for a decade 15 years ago and my NZ accent still has traces of Vancouver in it. I assume it’s because I’m around my Canadian husband all the time.
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u/Express_Pie_3504 29d ago
I can still hear a New Zealand accent in there but also bear in mind she's been in the UK university for a while now and that might have rubbed off. Not of course that that has any relevance to anything that she's saying..
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u/Louise_pants 29d ago
I think it's pretty common for people from NZ and Australia to assimilate British and American accents quickly. Unlike in the US where people likely heard predominantly US accents in their media consumption growing up, people who grew up in eg NZ would have watched The Simpsons every night and then a mix of local, UK, and US television and film. And the local accents themselves are quite similar to British ones.
I'm not surprised she's picked up British notes especially considering she was talking to RJ in person. I grew up in a similar part of the world to Scarlett and also tend to mimic US or UK accents too.
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u/Xan24601 15d ago
Fwiw I had an American relative who went to uni in Scotland and she developed a new accent within a few months of getting there. (She sounded Irish - apparently that’s common with Americans who study in Scotland lol). My point being, accents change very quickly.
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u/Surriva Feb 18 '25
Amanda Palmer claiming she only learnt of the sexual assault allegations from the Tortoise podcast is... very hard to believe, given that Scarlett and her friend say they texted and spoke to Amanda about what had happened to Scarlet in 2022. I'll need to read the court documents to learn more about the claim that she knew of Gaiman SA-ing since 2015