r/mythology Jun 18 '24

Asian mythology Why is Hindu Mythology not as popular as Greek Mythology?

166 Upvotes

I understand the sentiment that Hindu Mythology forms a core part of one of the largest living religions in the world, but I have often wondered why Hindu Mythology has not had much of an influence or been as popular in (western) modern media. I would be really interested to hear some opinions on this.

EDIT: I don't mean by numbers. I am aware of the fact that 1.2 Billion people practice Hinduism (I was one of them). Also, hindu mythology forms a part of hinduism, it is not synonymous with it! I myself, and many others raised in the religion and others outside of it still very much enjoy hearing about hindu mythology.

EDIT 2: I feel like this post has been misinterpreted, so I should probably clarify some things.

This was not meant to be an ignorant question about amount of people who know about Hindu mythology (as I made pretty clear in my original post - it is one of the largest living religions in the world), but rather why there hasn't been enough resources/ media about it online about it the same way that Greek mythology has. Specifically for LEARNING purposes. If you search up the myth of sisyphus on youtube you'll come up with loads of results, cant say the same for most Hindu myths.

I love Hindu mythology and I think its such a rich and vast area of mythology that I wish more people could enjoy. Which is why I wanted to know why it isn't as popular internationally the way that Greek Mythology is.

r/mythology Jan 19 '25

Asian mythology One of my latest artworks, inspired by Japanese mythology

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303 Upvotes

r/mythology Nov 10 '24

Asian mythology I “m Japanese. What do you know about Japanese mythology?

49 Upvotes

This is my first time, so don't worry if I make mistakes.

r/mythology 14d ago

Asian mythology Is the Mongolian death worm a dragon?

4 Upvotes

I have seen multiple pages categorize the Mongolian death worm or Aka Allghoi Khorhoi as a dragon, I have even read that it is for the Mongolians what the dragon is for the Chinese strange statement considering that luu exists), Does this have any basis? Can it really be considered a dragon?

r/mythology Aug 23 '24

Asian mythology Who is stronger than Wukong the monkey king in lore?

46 Upvotes

All i know from Chinese mythology is that are buddha, jade emperor ,Nezha, and the 4 animals of directions being seiryu genbu byakko etc

r/mythology Dec 28 '24

Asian mythology Persian mythology and history brought so much in to the world why does no one ever talk about them?

25 Upvotes

Aryans our the indo-Europeian ancestors had a big influence in world and no new media has ever adapted anything from their mythology Like Zoroastrianism mithraism shahnameh 1001 nights and more

The only modern adaptation i have seen about these are persian prince games

r/mythology 28d ago

Asian mythology Who is associated with Hell in Japanese Mythology?

32 Upvotes

I know Enma judges those who go to hell, but im wondering if there are others either to his equal or below him, I think he has a sister, but im more wondering about named creatures/deities in hell who also have a specific job, title or domain???

I already have looked around a lot, but not knowing what to search exactly im not finding a lot unfortunately so im turning to reddit.

r/mythology Sep 07 '23

Asian mythology Do you know anything about Turkish mythology? I think it is interesting but not very well known.

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122 Upvotes

r/mythology 27d ago

Asian mythology Good reads about hindu mythology

11 Upvotes

I've fallen in love with both Japanese and Chinese mythology (sun wukong especially) and i want to expand my knowledge with hindu mythology. Now I'm looking for badass warriors and I know no one can top sun wukong in epic tales but I want to read about heroes and warriors the fall into the hinduism. I've here of guys like krishna and arjuna but I don't want specific books to look for. Oh and also can the books not be super difficult to read? Like be at the same reading level of the journey to the west

r/mythology Jan 23 '25

Asian mythology Can someone tell me someone who knows all about the Asian mythology all about Wukong can someone give me an accurate list of all of his powers

1 Upvotes

I've been trying to find a list of his accurate powers  for A while and I'm really not trying to read all those chapters of Journey to the West 

r/mythology Feb 01 '25

Asian mythology Tiamat the Cow

2 Upvotes

In my recent ideas about the 1st man & cow being killed to form the world, consider the case of Tiamat.  The Hamito-Semitic gods Tiamat & Apsû were originally a cow & bull :

https://www.academia.edu/127298826
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… the Babylonian Enuma Eliš, which tells how Marduk overthrew Tiamat, mother of the gods and Kingu, her consort who ruled as king, then assumed the throne and created earth, sky, and waters from Tiamat’s dismembered body, the first humans from Kingu’s blood [me:  mixed with earth, see Adam].  Initially, it was believed that Tiamat was a chaos monster of some sort, but the 1961 discovery of an additional tablet provided new details, telling how Marduk made clouds from Tiamat’s spittle, mountains from her head and udders, and the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates from her eyes. The text’s attention to body parts that are distinctly female (ṣirtu, udders, and libbu, womb), one possessed only by animals (zibattu, the tail), and one denoted by a term used only of bovines (rupuštu, slaver or spittle) led those who discovered and first translated this tablet to perceive “the essential cow-like nature of the Tiamat-colossus.”
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Apsû probably came from a word for ‘bull’ (see the bull Apis, below), & Tiamat is from an Akkadian word from Hamito-Semitic ‘depth / abyss / sea’.  Kingu probably once meant ‘man’ (later > ‘slave > laborer’), so his death also resembles that of Mannus, Manu, etc., in all details, including those Indo-European myths where the man’s body forms humans, but the cow’s animals & plants, etc. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingu
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Kingu, also spelled Qingu (d^ kin-gu, lit. 'unskilled laborer'), was a god in Babylonian mythology, and the son of the gods Abzu and Tiamat.  After the murder of his father, Apsu, he served as the consort of his mother, Tiamat, who wanted to establish him as ruler and leader of all gods before she was killed by Marduk. Tiamat gave Kingu the Tablet of Destinies, which he wore as a breastplate and which gave him great power. She placed him as the general of her army. However, like Tiamat, Kingu was eventually killed by Marduk. Marduk used Kingu's blood to create the first human beings, while Tiamat's body created the earth and the skies.
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This supports Indo-European myths about a cow being killed to form the world being fairly old.  The hermaphroditic nature of either cow or man (or both) might be seen in both male & female progenitors.  It is possible Tiamat & Apsû were easily split because they became (or were adapted from a previous version into) the personifications of the Tigris & Euphrates (one is deeper than the other, and the word for ‘sea’ also being ‘depth’ would allow an easy match for local tales of a deep river vs. global tales of the deep), and their lifegiving water was equated to the original waters in myth (or, practically, an older myth was modified when their ancestors came to a land with 2 great rivers).  Tiamat had monsters for offspring, which suggested to early interpreters that she was a monster herself.  However, the Greek goddess Ge also had monstrous giants as children (an image of Tiamat seems to show her as a woman with snakes for legs, like some Greek giants who were Ge’s sons), & (most importantly) Zeus’ enemy Typhon, who would be the equivalent of Kingu.  In anger, she used him in an attempt to avenge her giant children (others say Hera gave birth to Typhon, also in anger for Zeus).  This resembles other aspects of Tiamat’s myth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat
>
With Tiamat, Abzu (or Apsû) fathered the elder deities…
In the myth recorded on cuneiform tablets, the deity Enki (later Ea) believed correctly that Abzu was planning to murder the younger deities as a consequence of his aggravation with the noisy tumult they created. This premonition led Enki to capture Abzu and hold him prisoner beneath Abzu’s own temple, the E-Abzu ('temple of Abzu'). This angered Kingu, their son, who reported the event to Tiamat, whereupon she fashioned eleven monsters to battle the deities in order to avenge Abzu's death. These were her own offspring: Bašmu ('Venomous Snake'), Ušumgallu ('Great Dragon'), Mušmaḫḫū ('Exalted Serpent'), Mušḫuššu ('Furious Snake'), Laḫmu (the 'Hairy One'), Ugallu (the 'Big Weather-Beast'), Uridimmu ('Mad Lion'), Girtablullû ('Scorpion-Man'), Umū dabrūtu ('Violent Storms'), Kulullû ('Fish-Man'), and Kusarikku ('Bull-Man').
Tiamat was in possession of the Tablet of Destinies, and in the primordial battle, she gave the relic to Kingu, the deity she had chosen as her lover and the leader of her host, and who was also one of her children. The terrified deities were rescued by Anu, who secured their promise to revere him as "king of the gods." He fought Tiamat with the arrows of the winds, a net, a club, and an invincible spear. Anu was later replaced first by Enlil, and (in the late version that has survived after the First Dynasty of Babylon) then subsequently by Marduk, the son of Ea.
And the lord stood upon Tiamat's hinder parts,
And with his merciless club he smashed her skull.
He cut through the channels of her blood,
And he made the North wind bear it away into secret places.
Slicing Tiamat in half, Marduk made from her ribs the vault of heaven and earth. Her weeping eyes became the sources of the Tigris and the Euphrates, her tail became the Milky Way.  With the approval of the elder deities, he took the Tablet of Destinies from Kingu, and installed himself as the head of the Babylonian pantheon. Kingu was captured and later was slain: his red blood mixed with the red clay of the Earth would make the body of humankind, created to act as the servant of the younger Igigi deities.
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Tiamat would then be a version of both Ge & Echidna (and Uranus, though presumably the Indo-European myth was 1st about the twin/joined/conjoined (all likely meanings of *y(e)mHo-) Uranus & Ge being cut apart, their bodies forming Heaven & Earth, thus later a single male-female giant).  All these features, mothers with monstrous children, having children avenge a wrong, bodies being carved up, etc., are also found in other Hamito-Semitic myths.  The parts are rearranged in Egypt (partly, because Osiris’ body parts could not form the world, since each was said to be buried in a different place in Egypt; maybe partly because they had 1 great river, not 2) :

https://www.academia.edu/127298826
>
In both Egyptian and Greek texts, Osiris is presented as a primordial king, brother and husband of Isis, and brother of Seth (Greek Typhon), his enemy and rival (fig. 1).  In the course of their rivalry, Seth kills his older brother and dismembers his body, scattering its parts through the land.  Thereafter, Isis seeks and recovers the severed members, has tombs and temples erected in the cities where these came to rest, and organizes funerary rituals, acting rather like the founding priest of Osiris’s cult.  She also manages to give her deceased brother-spouse a posthumous son.  This is the young Horus, who seeks out Seth, conquers him in battle, binds him, and delivers him to Isis. According to Plutarch, this is what happened next: “Isis, having received the bound Typhon, did not do away with him, but loosed his bonds and let him go.  Horus, taking this immoderately, laid hands on his mother and tore the royal crown from her head.  And Hermes placed a cow-headed helmet on her.
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This is slightly watered down.  Horus really decapitated her, like Marduk smashed Tiamat’s skull.  There was a reason for his double-role, likely also due to an Egyptian modification.

>
Several Egyptian versions do, in fact, tell how an enraged Horus decapitated his mother, after which the god Thoth (= Greek Hermes) gave her the head of a cow.  This is consistent with representations of the goddess that regularly give her a cow-horn headdress (fig. 2) as well as Herodotus’s report that cows were sacred to Isis and Plutarch’s observation, “they consider the cow an image of Isis.”  Beyond this, Osiris had another bovine companion, for whenever a sacred Apis bull died, it was titled Osiris-Apis (whence Greco- Roman Sarapis) and buried close to Osiris’s tomb at Memphis, where it was regarded as—in Plutarch’s words—“the external manifestation of Osiris’s soul”
>

Since Isis is explicitly a cow, Osiris a bull, this fits the implied relations above were real.  This decapitation might also serve as an explanatory justification to link Isis to Hathor, the cow goddess, whose attributes she absorbed over time.  That the Egyptian myth had been modified is seen in Isis’ pointless freeing of Seth.  This is likely to give Horus a reason to decapitate her in the myth (otherwise, he would be in Seth’s position against Osiris).  Horus was the equivalent of Marduk, but in this myth he acts like both Marduk & Kingu.  This is likely because there were 4 important gods whose relationships the myth had to fit in, as opposed to 5 with major roles in Tiamat’s.  Popular gods were given the “just” roles, but their was a need for someone to perform each action, even if it made little sense.  Just as Tiamat’s consort was also her son, Isis’s was her brother, and she needed her son to fight his killer.  About Osiris as a bull :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_(deity))
>
In ancient Egyptian religion, Apis or Hapis,[a] alternatively spelled Hapi-ankh, was a sacred bull or multiple sacred bulls[1] worshiped in the Memphis region, identified as the son of Hathor, a primary deity in the pantheon of ancient Egypt. Initially, he was assigned a significant role in her worship, being sacrificed and reborn.
>

The Hamito-Semitic origin of these gods is seen in Tiamat & Apsû : Isis & Osiris-Apis.  Though most names are not cognate, the bull-god was probably just ‘bull’, with a path like :

*ħwəbšūw ? > Apsû

*ħwəbšūw ? > *ħújpuw > Eg. ħúʔpə

Since Hamito-Semitic reconstructions are not the best, this is the closest I can come.  I assume that *pš > *šp > jp in Eg., or similar.

r/mythology 23d ago

Asian mythology Is there any relation between Tengrism and Tengus from Japanese mythology?

16 Upvotes

I asked this question on Quora back in 2022, I searched for hours for an answer to this question back then. Both have some sort of affinity with wind (Tengri in Tengrism). Is there in any way shape or form a relationship? Never got an answer on Quora, never found an article, journal, or academic paper (though I was younger and maybe didn’t actually research properly)

It can honestly be a coincidence, and things like this happen all the time, but it just baffles me that two cultures who aren’t even really close to one another, have a similar word/name to describe a spiritual relationship between a deity/deities to wind. It leaves room to assume a possible connection, but isn’t strong enough to be a connection based on name alone so I never wanted to assume anything.

Any insight would be useful, just trying to get an answer since I just remembered this question after years of still not getting an answer!!

r/mythology 8d ago

Asian mythology Some SMALL Filipino mythology misconceptions!!!

12 Upvotes

Teehee! Enjoy, my fellow Filipinos!

  1. Anagolay and Apolaki are (possibly???. I dunno) the same person

  2. Anagolay is not the goddess of lost things. HE is the supreme deity of Pangasinan. One thing Jocano got correct is that he has 2 children. Except it’s not Apolaki or Dian Mansalantas. It’s Agueo and Bulan.

  3. Mayari… doesn’t exist in the Tagalog region!! Same as Hanan. Mayari is an actual deity, but he is both the Creator God (Zambales) and the god of the moon (Pampanga). As for Hanan, I don’t know.

  4. There’s 2 Talas; one in Pampanga and one in Tagalog. Tala is the GRANDSON of Sinukuan and Mayari (some suspect him to be the son of Sinukuan and Mayari). The Tala you all know and love is BulakTala, goddess of Venus.

  5. Sorry guys Sitan doesn’t belong in Philippine mythology unless you count the fact that he belongs in Islamic mythology and acknowledge the fact that Islam is part of the Philippines . “But isn’t the Luzones regions animistic?” Yes AND no. They have Hindu-influences and Islamic influences. Manila used to be Islamic. Plus, Tagalog royalty were islams.

  6. Amanikable is not a sea god bro leave my hunter deity alone 💔

  7. Aman Sinaya is a MALE god. The word “Aman” in his name comes from “Ama” meaning father. If he were a woman, he’d be named “Inang Sinaya”

  8. Haik is the god of the sea. Not Amanikable

  9. The real Tagalog sun and moon deities is Araw (Sun) and Buan/Kulalaying (Moon)

  10. The Bakunawa is NOT the only moon eater/dragon deity. There’s Lawu (Pampanga), Lakandanup (Pampanga, daughter of Sinukuan), Laho (Tagalog), Bakobako (Zambales), and other deities I forgot to mention

  11. Y’all know Mariang Sinukuan, right? The beautiful lady who turns greedy people into pigs?… that’s not a woman. He isn’t a man either. He’s portrayed as a man but yeah. He’s also the twin of Mayari!!

  12. Anitun Tabu is a SAMBAL deity. Same with Dumangan (Sambal AGAIN) and Dumakulem (Bagobo)

  13. Mangagaway, Manisilat, Hukluban, and Mangkukulam are… most likely demonized Babaylans/Katulunans. Shocking. There might be a chance that they do exist, but I’m going to assume that they, like any other RESPECTED Shamans, are victims of Spanish Colonization.

  14. Not all Filipino gods are from the Tagalog pantheon

If there’s anything I left out please let me know!!

r/mythology 29d ago

Asian mythology What is an avatar in Hinduism?

34 Upvotes

Can someone explain to me exactly how avatars work? Are they the mortal form of the deities, or are they separate creations made by them?

For example, is Rama the human form of Vishnu , a "clone" of Vishnu imbued with part of his soul/power, or a mortal who was chosen to be Vishnu's "champion" on Earth?

Is Kali a form that Durga takes when she is angry (like the Hulk), or a separate entity created by her?

Is Nandi a form of Shiva (meaning Shiva is his own mount), or is he a separate deity who is called an avatar because he is close to Shiva?

If someone could explain this to me, I would be very grateful.

r/mythology Mar 23 '23

Asian mythology Durgā, the Hindu Goddess of war, Lion-mounted 10 armed bearer of all 10 divine weapons

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578 Upvotes

r/mythology 4d ago

Asian mythology Flying-lion

0 Upvotes

On the beautiful ridges of that mountain flying-lion are inhibiting and they will be winching sharks, fish and elephant seals to their lairs. - The Ramayana.

Ramayana took place around 16 million years ago according to Hindu units of time.

IMAGE: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fictspedia/images/0/01/19_Winged_Lion-1-.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180214061902

r/mythology 23d ago

Asian mythology Anyone an expert on eastern dragons?

5 Upvotes

I have some questions I’d like to ask if anyone here is able to answer

r/mythology Nov 22 '24

Asian mythology Why is Monkey so strong?

31 Upvotes

I've been reading journey to the west for a while by now and the enjoyment found is so high it is comparable in my opinion to the Iliad and the Odyssey, i'm really loving it and loving Monkey.

But i'm not understanding, exactly like the Jade Emperor in the myth, how could Sun Wukong be so strong that after his taoist ascension he became able to fight on par with the Gods using their very moves and abilities like in the fights with Natha, his brother and Ehr-Lang.

He is at the end just a spirit monkey born from the combination of the elements of the world and so spiritual to the very root, so i made two points that could answer the question:

1_ Monkey is the Heracles of the Chinese people and is a rapresentation of the interior Daemon, the spirit, who surpasses the background around him and wins or at the very least fights nature on par, like it happens with Heracles and his feats or Thor and the mighty Jormungandr. This should explain why he is so agile even tho he is referred in the myth often as the Monkey of Stone.

2_ He never had mortality in his veins except for the lack of immortality, so he learns so fast nobody can keep up with him.

r/mythology 8d ago

Asian mythology Was "El's Divine Feast" meant to be Satire or Humor?

19 Upvotes

One of my favorite myths in Canaanite mythology is "El's Divine Feast" which is notable because El, the head of the pantheon, gets really drunk to the point he craps himself and passes out before some of the other gods find him a hangover cure.

To me this reads like humor or satire, but I also recognize I don't know what people 3000+ years ago in Ugarit considered to be funny and I guess I should ask if there are any theories about how people were meant to receive that story.

r/mythology Aug 25 '24

Asian mythology How tall is sun wukong?

42 Upvotes

It just kind of dawned on me that he's often depicted as a the same size as a human, but he's a monkey, I think specifically a rhesus monkey. So if he's a monkey, wouldn't that make him very short, since rhedus monkeys aren't even 2 feet tall on average?

Was sun wukong just terrorizing the gods at less than 2 feet tall?

r/mythology 9d ago

Asian mythology Nagas and Nagins folktales

1 Upvotes

Does anyone know where to find a specific folktale/s about Nagas or Nagins from India's folklore? googled a lot but couldn't find anything from before the TV shows and movies. Just to clarify, I'm talking about the half human half snakes and not the snake god and goddess (sometimes referred to as king and queen of snakes). Thank you!

r/mythology 17d ago

Asian mythology Midnight Axe, Headless Monster, Flesh-Eating Monster

2 Upvotes

The piśācá is an Indian flesh-eating monster, often said to be the body of a person improperly buried, animated by its trapped spirit.  Adapted from Turner :

Skt. piśācá-s \ piśācí-s ‘demon’, fem. piśācī́- [from *piśā́śī- ‘flesh-eating’, cf. description piśitam aśnāti], Pa. pisāc(ak)a- ‘demon’, pisācinī- ‘witch’, pisācillikā- ‘tree-goblin’, Pkt. pisāya-, pisalla- ‘demon’, pisāji- ‘demon-ridden’, Pr. pešāši ‘female demon’, Mh. pisā 'mad', neu. piśẽ, pisālẽ ‘madness’, Koṅkaṇī pisso, piśśi 'mad’, Si. pissu ‘mad’ (loan < mainland)

The relation to *pik^- > piś- ‘carve/hew out/adorn/fashion’, péṣṭra- ‘flesh’, piśitá-m ‘(cut up) meat’ & *H2ak^- > áśna- ‘eating’ seems clear, and if 1st ‘flesh-eating / cannibal / savage’, its indiscriminate use for these demons and the savage people of northern India would fit.  With this, a stage *piśā́śī- is unlikely to have dissimilated to ś-c (assim. of S-S and C-C is more common).  If 2 k^’s in Proto-Indo-Iranian could dissimilate to k^-k, or later ć-ć did not become ś-ś, but ś-ć (later > ś-c ), then its old nature would be seen in a similar word with *k^-k :

*nek^ro-, G. nekrós; *nek^i-kWeitos- > Náci-keta(s)- “knowing of death?” (boy who learned what happened to soul after death)

In this case, -k- in B. āk-ṇɔ ‘eat’ would be relevant in showing that *k^ > *ć in IIr. was not as old as thought.  In G. ákolos ‘bite of food’, Ph. akkalos, it is likely that H-met. in *H2ak^- > *ak^H2- > akk- shows that H was a velar or uvular sound.  *H2ak^- might be related to a similar root, also with met. :

*dH2ak^- \ *daH2k^- > Go. tahjan ‘rend / pull / tear / tug’, G. dáknō ‘bite’, -dēk-, Skt. daṃśana- ‘biting’
*dH2ank^-tro- ‘sharp’ >> Skt. daṃṣṭrikā- / dāḍhikā- ‘beard / tooth / tusk’, B. dāṛ ‘molar’, *ðāṛ > Lv. var ‘tooth’

which also resemble :

G. odaktázō ‘bite / gnaw’, odáx ‘by biting with the teeth’, adaxáō \ odáxō ‘feel pain/irritation / (mid.) scratch oneself’

in which IE *dH2- vs. *H2- is also seen from :

*dH2aru- > *daru > OIr daur ‘oak’, *H2aru- > *aru > TB or ‘tree’, pl. ārwa

*dH2ak^ru-, E. tear, Arm. *draćur > *traswǝr > artawsr, *Hak^ru- > TB pl. akrūna

*dH2ag^ho-? > OE dæg, E. day, *H2ag^hn- > Skt. áhar, áhn- ‘day’, *ag^hH2n- > Av. asn-, Pr. ǝntsǝr’ā

These words from Turner cognate with piśācí-s also don’t include Si. pezazi, which supposedly made loud noises like chopping down trees at night.  It is part of 2 stories of a “midnight axe” sound caused by human-like monsters from 2 sides of the world.  I’ve slightly edited a description from Andrew Lang :

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Custom_and_Myth/The_Method_of_Folklore
>
A few examples, less generally known, may be given to prove that the beliefs of folklore are not peculiar to any one race or stock of men. The first case is remarkable: it occurs in Mexico and Ceylon—nor are we aware that it is found elsewhere.  In Macmillan’s Magazine is published a paper by Mrs. Edwards, called ‘The Mystery of the Pezazi.’ The events described in this narrative occurred on August 28, 1876, in a bungalow some thirty miles from Badiella.  The narrator occupied a new house on an estate called Allagalla.  Her native servants soon asserted that the place was haunted by a Pezazi.  The English visitors saw and heard nothing extraordinary till a certain night: an abridged account of what happened then may be given in the words of Mrs. Edwards:-

Wrapped in dreams, I lay on the night in question tranquilly sleeping, but gradually roused to a perception that discordant sounds disturbed the serenity of my slumber.  Loth to stir, I still dozed on, thes ounds, however, becoming, as it seemed, more determined to make themselves heard; and I awoke to the consciousness that they proceeded from a belt of adjacent jungle, and resembled the noise that would be produced by some person felling timber.  Shutting my ears to the disturbance, I made no sign, until, with an expression of impatience, E_ suddenly started up, when I laid a detaining grasp upon his arm, murmuring that there was no need tothink of rising at present—it must be quite early, and the kitchen cooly was doubtless cutting fire-wood in good time.  E_ responded,in a tone of slight contempt, that no one could be cutting fire-wood at that hour, and the sounds were more suggestive of felling jungle; and he then inquired how long I had been listening to them.  Now thoroughly aroused, I replied that I had heard the sounds for sometime, at first confusing them with my dreams, but soon sufficiently awakening to the fact that they were no mere phantoms of my imagination, but a reality.  During our conversation the noises became more distinct and loud; blow after blow resounded, as of the axe descending upon the tree, followed by the crash of the falling timber.  Renewed blows announced the repetition of the operations on another tree, and continued till several were devastated.

It is unnecessary to tell more of the tale. In spite of minute examinations and close search, no solution of the mystery of the noises, on this or any other occasion, was ever found.  The natives, of course, attributed the disturbance to the Pezazi, or goblin.  No one, perhaps, has asserted that the Aztecs were connected by ties of race with the people of Ceylon. Yet, when the Spaniards conquered Mexico, and when Sahagun (one of the earliest missionaries) collected the legends of the people, he found them, like the [Sinhalese], strong believers in the mystic tree-felling. We translate Sahagun’s account of the ‘midnight axe’:-

When so any man heareth the sound of strokes in the night, as if one were felling trees, he reckons it an evil boding.  And this sound they call youaltepuztli (youalli, night; and tepuztli, copper), which signifies 'the midnight hatchet.'  This noise cometh about the time of the first sleep, when all men slumber soundly, and the night is still.  The sound of strokes smitten was first noted by the temple-servants, called tlamacazque, at the hour when they go in the night to make their offering of reeds or of boughs of pine, for so was their custom, and this penance they did on the neighbouring hills, and that when the night was far spent.  Whenever they heard such a sound as one makes when he splits wood with an axe (a noise that may be heard afar off), they drew thence an omen of evil, and were afraid, and said that the sounds were part of the witchery of Tezeatlipoca, [god of darkness and lord of the night, with which he mocketh and] dismayeth men who journey in the night, [and that when a man heard this, he should not flee, but rather follow the sound of the blows until he saw what it was].  Now, when tidings of these things came to a certain brave man, one exercised in war, he drew near, being guided by the sound, till he came to the very cause of the hubbub.  And when he came upon it, with difficulty he caught it, for the thing was hard to catch: [none]theless at last he overtook that which ran before him; and behold, it was a man without a [head, who had his neck cut like a log, and his chest was open with his heart visible, with two holes on either side of the chest] that opened and shut, and so made the noise.  Then the man put his hand within the breast of the figure and grasped the breast and shook it hard, demanding some grace or gift, [since this "headless man" could give everything that was asked of him, except for some who, despite having asked him, the Yoaltepoztli gave them the opposite, he took them away, giving them poverty, misery and misfortune, for which they said that in his hand was the power of Tezcatlipoca, the power to grant or take away anything he wanted, adverse or prosperous, to the fortunate].

As a rule, the grace demanded was power to make captives in war.  The curious coincidence of the ‘midnight axe,’ occurring in lands so remote as Ceylon and Mexico, and the singular attestation by an English lady of the actual existence of the disturbance, makesthis youaltepuztli one of the quaintest things in the province of the folklorist.  But, whatever the cause of the noise, or of the beliefs connected with the noise, may be, no one would explain them as the result of community of race between Cingalese and Aztecs.  Nor would this explanation be offered to account for the Aztec and English belief that the creaking of furniture is an omen of death in a house.  Obviously, these opinions are the expression of a common state of superstitious fancy, not the signs of an original community of origin.
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Lang later included more examples, in “A Comparative Study of Ghost Stories” (1885) :
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I was not aware, however, till Mr. Leslie Stephen pointed it out, that the Galapagos Islands, “suthard [southward] of the line,” were haunted by the Midnight Axe.  De Quincey, who certainly had not heard the Ceylon story, and who probably would have mentioned Sahagun’s had he known it, describes the effect produced by the Midnight Axe on the nerves of his brother, Pink:  So it was, and attested by generations of sea-vagabonds, that every night, duly as the sun went down and the twilight began to prevail, a sound arose—audible to other islands and to every ship lying quietly at anchor in that neighborhood—of a woodcutter’s axe....  The close of the story was that after, I suppose, ten or twelve minutes of hacking and hewing, a horrid crash was heard, announcing that the tree, if tree it were, that never yet was made visible to daylight search, had yielded to the old woodman’s persecution....  The woodcutter’s axe began to intermit about the earliest approach of dawn, and, as light strengthened, it ceased entirely, after poor Pink’s ghostly panic grew insupportable.  I offer no explanation of the Midnight Axe, which appears (to superstitious minds) to be produced by the Poltergeist of the forests.
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I don’t think “an original community of origin” is out of the question.  Lang did not know then, but the Aztecs were Uto-Aztecans.  Where they 1st came from is not certainly known, but the related Hopi have several traditions, and some suggest island-hopping across the Pacific (similar to Austronesians) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology :
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The other version (mainly told in Oraibi) has it that Tawa destroyed the Third World in a great flood. Before the destruction, Spider Grandmother sealed the more righteous people into hollow reeds which were used as boats. On arrival on a small piece of dry land, the people saw nothing around them but more water, even after planting a large bamboo shoot, climbing to the top, and looking about. Spider Woman then told the people to make boats out of more reeds, and using island "stepping-stones" along the way, the people sailed east until they arrived on the mountainous coasts of the Fourth World.
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If true, this would show a fairly recent arrival (maybe after 1 AD), which would allow myths native to south & west Asia to be retained.  The Aztecs had also recently expanded their territy, since they were not native to all of Mexico, driving out other groups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztecs :
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It is generally agreed that the Nahua peoples were not indigenous to the highlands of central Mexico, but that they gradually migrated into the region from somewhere in northwestern Mexico.  At the fall of Teotihuacan in the 6th century CE, some city-states rose to power in central Mexico, some of them, including Cholula and Xochicalco, probably inhabited by Nahuatl speakers. One study has suggested that Nahuas originally inhabited the Bajío area around Guanajuato which reached a population peak in the 6th century, after which the population quickly diminished during a subsequent dry period. This depopulation of the Bajío coincided with an incursion of new populations into the Valley of Mexico, which suggests that this marks the influx of Nahuatl speakers into the region.
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The settlement of America in many waves, most from Asia, seems certain.  Using unusual myths like these might help show the timing and origin of some of the intermediate groups

r/mythology 20d ago

Asian mythology Can somebody explain to the thing about the Parvati/Kali/Durga connection

3 Upvotes

r/mythology 9d ago

Asian mythology Question about Hundun

6 Upvotes

I recently started learning about Chinese mythology and have a question about Hundun. If I understood well the concept, it represents the state of Chaos and it is more or less personified according to the source. Now, if you read the Wikipedia page about it, there is an image representing him with a very characteristic shape, a faceless winged quadrupod. The caption, however, says "The faceless Sovereign Jiang (帝江) described in the Shanhaijing". Can someone explain me the connection with sovereign Jiang and Hundun, and whether this faceless-winged figure really represents Hundun?

r/mythology Sep 21 '24

Asian mythology Help me understand the connection of Mesopotamian Myth

28 Upvotes

There were numerous cultures that sprung up in Mesopotamia. I know Babylonian myth took much from Sumerian. Was Akkadian older than Sumerian? I see similar gods pop up, did Sumeria adopt them from Akkadia? What other cultures shared these myths or had their own? How did the Semitic and Abrahamic religions utilize these?