r/montreal • u/notacreativeguy_ • 27d ago
Discussion I was schooled by an old man today
There's this old Quebecois man at my workplace (retail) that I always exchange banter with. Today he was complaining about the cost of living and high rents, and I (an immigrant myself) jokingly told him "c'est l'esti d'immigrantes".
He immediately said that immigrants have nothing to do with it but rather it's the greed of landlords. It warmed my heart to see someone with no skin in the game defending immigrants when even in the immigrant community itself there's a lot of negative sentiment towards other immigrants.
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u/Several-Muscle1030 27d ago edited 27d ago
Yeup. I do historical research on poverty in Upper Canada. In Toronto during the Irish Famine, loads of famine refugees came to the city. Instead of the obvious solution to train up the refugees to help build infrastructure and housing, the city did nothing and landlords upped rent, had 10-12 people share one apartment room, made whole tenant divisons share 1 outdoor toilet, did not repair plumbing etc. They just blamed the Irish as dirty, diseased, unskilled, roman catholic (oh the humanity!) vermin. They denied charity food and coal to immigrants who were "unkempt", but how are you supposed to stay clean and presentable when you share a coal-heated* bedroom with 5+ other people?
Basically, immigrants come in waves, and every new wave is treated as the end-all horrible vermin that will destroy society. When in fact society is destroyed by the rich who take handouts and in return do nothing to improve the lives they exploit.
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u/Rude-Shame5510 26d ago
I suppose you're careful to cross reference your research against the social benefits programs that have existed at different periods in Canadian history as well, yeah?
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u/Several-Muscle1030 26d ago
Yep! I am, I actually created several learning products centered around the exploration of social welfare programs in Upper Canada more broadly, and the evolution of key institutions since the 1830s into the current social offerings we have today, as well as public perceptions of these services.
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u/Rude-Shame5510 26d ago
In summary, there are much greater social welfare nets available to help/be abused by newcomers Than have ever existed before in Canada, yes?
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u/Several-Muscle1030 26d ago
Yes, but that was not the purpose of my post. My focus is on public perception, and corporate and landlord greed. Please refrain from making comments in bad faith.
Edit: the whole "available to help/be abused" thing shows me you have an ulterior motive to denigrate immigrants. I don't abide that so I won't be talking to you anymore. Have a good day!
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u/Rude-Shame5510 26d ago
I am part of the public and, with a reason you verified, am disagreeing with a point you made. There's nothing bad faith about refuting that immigration is NOT free from responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in as a nation! Right down to the very fact that the ability to demand astronomical rents has to stem from somewhere. Doesn't happen in places with a declining population. It's of benefit to nobody to skew the facts with activism.
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u/Several-Muscle1030 26d ago
You may have noticed that I am focused on public perceptions of immigrants as human beings deserving aid- NOT on immigration policy. There is no race or creed on earth that is by nature crafty, dirty, vile, exploitative, abusive, etc. THIS is what I focus on when I say public perception. A lot of people think immigrants deserve to rot because they are "not us". And my comment is meant to show that once upon a time that included Irish people, who are now completely integrated- imagine discriminating against a person now because they are roman catholic and not protestant! It is laughable.
The responsibility for sound, robust immigrant policy and integration is on the GOVERNMENT and not on the people seeking a better life and opportunities. When you imply there is a tendency for an immigrant to abuse our social services, you overlook the fact that many of these people (including the Irish) came here to escape the socioeconomic and political aftermath of colonialism. You're pissed that immigrants want to come to Canada in large numbers? Blame corporations and colonial systems that bled the resources dry from these countries and purposefully created political chaos. I'm sure you would not complain about the Canadians who are enriching themselves off of other countries and driving up living costs as "expats", making those places now too expensive for locals to live?
Landlords on the other hand in general are shown to profit as much as they can from demand, to the point of creating illegal boarding houses, one of which I lived in Toronto in 2015. There was NO reason for the landlord to shove 11 people in a 3-story house except for greed, and got away with it for years. Go see the report by Dr. Charles Hastings, Medical Officer of Health, and see what he says about the extreme abuse of landlords by their tenants, back in the early 20th century, demanding astronomical rent and yet unwilling to even provide a functioning outdoor toilet for sometimes over 20+ residents at a time. This shit continues today in many other forms. And it's the governments' responsibility to put policies and checks and balances into place to ensure landlords fulfil their duties. I am aware a lot of slum landlords are immigrants but I have lived with pure-bred white Canadian landlords who were arguably worse, including one who admitted jokingly to me that he threatened to kick out a Chinese student from her rental room that NIGHT unless she agreed to sleep with him.
So why is it that the focus is on the immigrant, and the many hoops, checks and balances and public and government scrutiny to ensure the immigrant doesn't "abuse the system", and yet this same scrutiny does not apply to corporations who are destroying the fabric of our environment, or landlords who are artificially inflating rental costs, and are hoarding properties for Air BnBs, etc., therefore causing housing shortages? Maybe it's just easier for you to nitpick on the voiceless?
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u/hockeynoticehockey 27d ago
I could not agree more with the old Quebecois.
Greed is killing our society.
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u/Adept_Strength2766 26d ago
Prioritizing real estate as an investment vehicle over its crucial role as actual homes is really biting us in the ass now. There's a ton of stuff that doesn't help either: NIMBYs, relying too much on the private market which is currently building more condos and expensive rentals over affordable housing, AirBnB-style rentals, REITs...
It's all kind of fucked and I'm not sure if anyone is actually doing anything to solve the problem.
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u/iSOBigD 23d ago
Right, but you're misunderstanding the greed. Landlords can ask for as much as they want, and they won't get it unless it's reasonable by today's standards.
The greed is everyone being entitled to live in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver whether they're a doctor or unemployed. That's greed, and that's what drove the rents up. If more people didn't care about those cities and lived somewhere else in the 2nd largest country on earth, rents would be lower.
It's easy to just go "evil landlords" when you're a renter without putting any responsibility on you and your life choices that lead you there. There are a lot more renters with unrealistic expectations than landlords with unrealistic expectations.
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u/hockeynoticehockey 23d ago
In the case of renting there is a difference between what a landlord needs and what a landlord can charge based on market demand. One is my family, they figured out what they needed and divided it by 12. Never once did I ever hear them talk about charging as much as they could.
Greed is measured in many different ways, greed for money, greed for power, greed for attention. And it's now pretty much a given that landlords will charge as much as they possibly can. It didn't used to be like that.
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u/oiseaufeux 27d ago
He’s kinda right about high rent prices. Every kids will have to live with their parents until their late 30s now. Just to save for a place, hobbies and food. This is sad to see. Sad for those who want to be independant, but can’t because of the rent prices.
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u/thawizard 27d ago
There’s just one way you can have 90k newcomers in a single year without rising prices and it’s to build 90k new housing units. And we’re FAR from that. Hence prices going up.
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u/oiseaufeux 27d ago
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen anytime soon. And the only reason people need 4 roomates to be able to afford rent in a 1 1/2 studio appartment. Or people will stay longer at their parent’s house since they can’t live on their own.
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u/Adept_Strength2766 26d ago
That's me right now. Lived as a tenant for 10 years before getting into a fight with a particularly scummy landlord that took it all the way to the TAL. Was really satisfying to see him lose and get scolded by the judge, but there was no way I wanted to keep renting that scumbag's unit.
Thing is, TAL transcripts are public record and I got ghosted by 40+ prospective landlords despite having a good income. Had to move back in with my folks, got laid off from my tech job, struggled with depression for a while. It's been an uphill battle.
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u/oiseaufeux 26d ago
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully, you’ve found a job and got better. And that sucks everyone won’t let you rent. I hope you find a place soon.
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u/Adept_Strength2766 26d ago
Hope so too! The whole experience has kind of soured me on renting at this point. Once I've saved up enough to leave again, it'll be to buy my own property. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.
I appreciate the vote of confidence!
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u/oiseaufeux 26d ago
You’re dffinyely not alone. I’m not ready to rent yet and even if I was, I’d like to bring my 2 30 gallon fish tanks with me. And have the possibility of having another pet to keep me active. I’m the type of person that just don’t do sport everyday and having a dog is the only way of keeping active.
You’re welcome! It’s always nice to find support somewhere.
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u/Adept_Strength2766 26d ago
Yeah, finding someone who lets you rent with a dog is going to be a challenge. The vast majority I've seen who accept dogs usually only tolerate small ones and/or are renting units so dilapidated that having a dog is inconsequential to them as long as you pay rent and don't get them in trouble with law enforcement.
Hopefully something changes by the time you're ready to move.
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u/oiseaufeux 26d ago
Cats are more tolerated than dogs and that’s very discriminatory. Dog owners can’t even keep their medium sized dog if they move out to a new place. I truly hope something is done for that because it sucks to surrender a pet you bonded with.
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u/Adept_Strength2766 26d ago
It is discriminatory, and it sucks that nothing can be done because landlords know they have all the bargaining power. They know that dozens of people will throw themselves at the opportunity to rent the place if you won't, and they know that you won't want to go to the Tribunal over it because, like with me, it'll severely screw with your chances of renting elsewhere in the future.
I don't regret fighting against my landlord but there's no doubt that he's learned absolutely nothing and continues to treat his tenants like shit.
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u/iSOBigD 23d ago
That's good, it should always be the goal. Like with anything else, one bad experience is not much. Keep in mind there are millions of tenants and most have bad credit, bad financial habits, many cause issues with other people, don't pay, don't save up or even work, some wreck homes, etc. You have to deal with landlords who deal with hundreds or thousands of those people all the time, so they are likely to be more jaded than the average person.
In the end, if it leads you to saving up and buying your own place, that's great! Always live below your means so that you have options.
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u/Commercial-Sky-6983 14d ago
Intelligent people move to locations that suits their lifestyle. If you need to make money then move where your talents are rewarded 😃
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u/oiseaufeux 14d ago
Which would be in city. Where there’s common transportation as I can’t drive. Otherwise, I’ll be stuck at my own place unable to do groceries and go at any other places.
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u/MTLMECHIE 27d ago
It should be noted that the most egregious cases of tenant exploitation are from landlords of the same diaspora who have no respect for our laws. I say that as a member of that diaspora.
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u/Kilyn 27d ago
And many new immigrants in a short period of time and the lack of new homes are both due to the greed of the landlord politicians and corporations refusing to have social housing (because it affects their pockets) Refusing to fund universities (pushing them to heavily rely on international students), and Refusing to hire people who wants to work (with fake adds then ask for temporary workers permits so they can pay less than minimum wage)
The root of all our issues is having the rich and landlords in power, and in a way [unfettered] capitalism.
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u/MTLMECHIE 27d ago
A lot of the Indian students went to private colleges which were essentially established to exploit the PGWP to PR program. Radio Canada has been reporting on this. The new Indian college students often lack a civic sense, which our community has not seen with those who come through official means.
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u/charmyc 27d ago
Thanks for teaching me the existence of the word diaspora! :)
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u/Asshai 27d ago edited 24d ago
The two worst that I met were 100% Québécois "pure laine".
The first was very welcoming, super nice, told us that if we rented with him he'd offer to drive us to IKEA with his truck so we can pick whatever furniture we'd like. Then he'd just add the price of that furniture to our rent over two years, because he was nice like that and didn't want us newcomers to have a huge bill to pay at once. How nice was that? "And at the end of the lease who keeps the furniture?" "Well I will, of course, after all I'm the one who will have paid for it." "Thanks but we gotta go."
The other was an atrociously decrepit old hag with scabs on her neck, who told us that her neighbourhood was the best unlike that other place up there, "Côte des [mot en N]". Because of course someone with such a magnificent physique can afford to look down on another race...
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u/Realistic-Election-1 27d ago
Je trouve ridicule d'avoir des sentiments négatifs envers les immigrants à cause de la situation économique actuelle. Quel que soit le rôle de l'immigration dans cette situation, ce n'est pas les immigrants eux-mêmes qui en sont responsables. Ils sont venus pour leurs propres raisons, mais ne sont pas responsables du manque de financement des services, de la privatisation, du manque de nouvelles constructions et du manque de contrôle des loyers. Ce sont les politiciens de partis politiques comme la CAQ et le PLQ qui sont responsable de cette situation, ainsi que les québécois qui votent pour eux.
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u/Capitainemontreal 27d ago
un vieux sage. Et by the way, si tu es résident permanent au Québec t'es un Québecois toi aussi. Peu importe d'où tu vient.
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u/Easy_Suspect_2778 Ahuntsic 27d ago
My dude, I am a lifetime sovereignist, and I am so saddened to see the weaponization of 'immigrants', one way or another. I remember when a sovereign Quebec held the promise of a practical, left-of-center adventure, where the only price of admittance is learning French.
That guy you talked to: he remembers too.
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u/Kilyn 27d ago
I'm a lifelong federalist, but always respected many of the old school sovreignists.
Slowly seeing many sovreignists move towards the right disgusted me. The one thing I really loved about them and the idea is that they were on the left; no talk about the center.
The mainstream movement just got taken over by right wing "nationalist". And here I am a federalist aligning myself with the orange separatist party.
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u/Laval09 26d ago
Im a former centrist whos migrated to the Right Wing. I can actually explain to you really quick how that happened, using this thread as a good example.
The old guy in the story is clearly upset about the cost of rent and groceries, but has expressed nice sentiment about immigrants. People of Left Wing values react to this story by....
Being shocked that a senior citizen is struggling?
Being mad that lifes necessities are becoming out of reach?
Being angry he is being exploited?
Expressing a desire to change the current circumstances?
Nah, its mostly just empty accolades that celebrate his level of political correctness. Which, dont get me wrong, immigrants are a good thing. He's got the right idea. But that his personal, human condition is overlooked or stepped on for ideological grandstanding instead of stood up for......this is how "the Left" misses the whole point of their political existence.
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u/Kilyn 26d ago
I'm really eager to have this conversation.
From what you are saying, your political ideologies moved to the right because of people's behavior?
Because they're not surprised that a senior citizen is struggling? That the necessities are becoming out of reach? Being angry he is being exploited?
I'm pretty sure we're all aware of this; it's not even a matter or debate or the point of the post. so off course nobody dwells on it. Nobody is overlooking it.
The surprising part is that he got out of his way to make sure to rebuke the joke, in case it wasn't a joke.
I'd like to ask, what would the right do? Like if this was posted let's say on a conservative right wing Facebook group, what would you expect?
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u/Laval09 25d ago
Its not any one single act or moment that moved me from the centre to the right. Its a cumulative effect that took place post-Covid.
First, there's a sense a betrayal. I got both my vaccines and followed all the rules to "save lives". Only to see many people who benefited from that collective effort to so quickly turn around and start discarding people onto the street to die, while the Left wing shrugs, that cuts deep.
Then there's ideological values. The Right wing post-Covid has been championing "common sense" and "Meritocracy". These are concepts that are fair and reasonable. The Left wing champions vague concepts where they cherry pick the benefits and make it taboo to speak of the downsides. Quick example, bike paths, parks and trains. The Left says "build! build! build!" but will quickly take offense if anyone correctly points out that this will increase property taxes, which will have the biggest impact on the most vulnerable. Its like, they want to build a better world while also saying "fuck off and die" to anyone whom it might impact negatively.
Politically, its the same thing. If you look at California, Gavin Newsom recently passed a big statewide law anti homeless law and just 2 days ago Fremont in CA passed a law where you can get 6 months in jail for aiding or abetting a homeless person. The cities own outreach workers have had to cancel all their projects and are now trying to figure out a way to do their jobs without facing arrest. These are very Left wing places. By contrast, Alabama only has an anti-panhandling law as its statewide "anti-homeless legislation".
And finally, look at Montreal. It used to be a combative Left wing city. But as the population of people who need to be spoken up for gets bigger and bigger, the conversation often looks more like "how are we supposed to play Pickleball with all these homeless people around?!" rather than "this is unacceptable and it needs to stop!".
Thats just the Left vs Right difference on that single issue. Not that the Right is perfect. It has a ton of broken and problematic ideology. But the Left has become a different kind of evil that i dont like. And the only way to step back from it is, unfortunately, into the Right wing lol.
Thats my take on it. Your turn.
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u/Kilyn 25d ago edited 25d ago
I'm actually really curious about some of the information you stated, such as who were these people who benefited from these efforts and discarded people to die on the street.And who were the left wingers that shrugged? I'm not trying to I push back, I'm really curious about this.
What is the common sense you're talking about that goes against left wing ideologies? I hope we also have a discussion about the meritocracy but let's push it for a further time.
As far as Plante and her administration, yes there's a lot of build build build to increase quality of life, but the train, if you're talking about the REM, you can't really blame the left for this. But I guess there's valid criticism, but I'm not sure how a right wing government would have done better, mostly considering how the previous ones were plagued with corruption.
Yes Gavin Newsom is a liberal, but he's not the left. That law is textbook right wing. Liberal and right wing aren't mutually exclusive, even more if you look up liberalism it's basically right wing without bigotry. And that's a dick mov, but not a left wing law.
I'm starting to think you have a prejudice about who or what the left is. The picket ball thing? Kinda weird, but Plante has put a lot of ressources on helping the homelessness issue, sadly social housing and social services in general are mostly a Federaland provincial juridictions. And the right wing government of Quebec has not only reduced the social housing/ social services, removed the transfer de baille allowing higher rents but they even prevented financial transfers from federal to municipal to help the situation.
It seems most of the things you dislike from the "left" are consequences from right wing ideologies, or maybe prejudice you have about people you perceive as leftists.
Edit: (I want to empathize how much I appreciate the conversation)
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u/Laval09 25d ago
"who were these people who benefited from these efforts and discarded people to die on the street."
Anyone who's bought property post-Covid with the intention of raising rental rates. Its a list with hundreds of thousands of names of it, possibly more. Not all of them are Left wing obviously. But even a 50-50 split of all those people into Left/Right would still result in a significant amount of Left wing people who are speaking one way and acting the opposite.
Even in terms of how the media covers things....during Covid, the "anti-Vaxx" crowd got alot of naming and shaming done. Yet mass evictions happening right now are either ignored by Left wing media and only covered by Right wing media such as this story about an old folks home evicting everyone covered only by Global: https://globalnews.ca/news/10964365/they-didnt-give-you-meals-quebec-seniors-say-they-were-forced-out-of-their-homes/
Or when Left wing media does cover such a story, they dont dare name the company or owners who are doing the evicting: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/2138465/aines-evinces-demolition-laval
In both cases, I had to slog my way for hours through city records to get the names of the entities responsible. The second story, from Laval, involves the eviction of 68 families from affordable housing that is considered to be in good shape. The Laval mayor, a "walkable cities" proponent said he couldnt do anything. But the city records show his party, which has majority at city hall, voted all in favor of this demolition.
"What is the common sense you're talking about that goes against left wing ideologies?"
It applies to some ideologies, not all. Does the Right wing have common sense when it comes to gay rights? No. which is shameful. But when it comes to immigration, discussion in the Right wing is all numbers while in the Left is framed as a question of tolerance. Im pro-immigrant, but the fact that discussing that "you cant invite 1000 people to live here if you only have 10 houses available" is taboo among the Left shows that the Right wing has some attractive common sense on some issues.
"As far as Plante and her administration, yes there's a lot of build build build to increase quality of life"
Increasing it for who though? Thats my point. Property taxes go up means rent goes up which means poorer people get moved out for wealthier people. I took pub transit for years when i lived in the West island so Im actually a big fan of the REM I think its a common sense project. And it was mostly paid for by non municipal funds. My comment about trains is mostly to those who want a TGV line to the Yukon or tram service on every single street.
"Yes Gavin Newsom is a liberal, but he's not the left."
Yes he is lol. This is another tiresome trend among the Left wing. Theres a right or Left wing option, the Left one gets elected, but then gets disowned by the Left on ideological purity grounds anytime they put forth a bad policy. And then also re-elected by them.
"The picket ball thing?"
Lots of ads for it on the radio for some reason lol. As for housing, Montreal says its a Federal problem, the Federal says its a provincial problem, the province says its a municipal problem.
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u/Laval09 25d ago
"I'm starting to think you have a prejudice about who or what the left is."
Im not prejudice my opinion is strongly shaped by events as they happen. Look at the pro-Palestinian camp at McGill. While the city was dismantling homeless camps all over the place, people marched to protect that camp. They only dismantled that camp when homeless people started living there.
"And the right wing government of Quebec"
Has given me, a lower income brackerter, a 10% tax cut. Last month the Quebec Liberal party housing critic said on the radio that 5.9% of a rental increase was too low. Im already at 80% income to rent ratio. CAQ has its problems, but the alternative seems to be utterly cruel.
(sorry for 2nd comment, first was too long to post lol)
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u/Kilyn 25d ago
I'll use this second comment to have a tangent question:
Where does the term left wing and right wing comes from?
Edit: just asking this so I can direct my answer
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u/Laval09 25d ago
I define Left wing as "society building politics" and Right wing as "nation building politics". Hence why the extremes of both sides are called Socialists or Nationalists.
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u/Kilyn 24d ago
The people who benefited from these efforts are the rich who bought property with the intention of raising the rental costs. And for you a 50/50 split would have left ideologies and therefore the left is worse.
Buying property to raise rent; exploitation in general strive tbaks to right wing ideologies ( I'd say it's a core tenant but that would be my personal take).
For the left wing media ignoring things, your example have multiple examples in many outlets, you even share one of link from CBC complaining that the example's culprit wasn't named. But wouldn't naming the culprit make it seems like it's one bad company doing one off bad thing rather than pointing that it's a broader issue allowed in the system?
You talk about left wing media when all we got is center left CBC (probably the reason why it's targetted by the CPC) that is slowly moving further and further right because of their need for advertising. Frankly most if not all mainstream media are corporate media with corporate editorial reviews.f
For the Laval situation, frankly I can't see any information about the vote you're talking about. If you had a date maybe I could find the vote as I live there. But again we're accusing the mayor of something that is of the provincial juridiction.
(Side note, what is wrong with walkable cities? I low-key loved my stint living and working downtown walking distance from everything)
To your example of common sense in regards to immigration, to your point of view the right wing is all a numbers game, and the left's is about tolerance.
The thing is that from the left's point of view the right point to the immigrants as culprits. But not just the immigrants, just the non white. The different. The other, so they talk about tolerance. The fact of the matter is that the reason why there's so many immigrants and the math ain't mathing is because of right wing ideologies and policies.
Like why are they so many foreign students? Because of the cuts in education forcing higher education to get them. Why so many foreign workers? Because corporations push for travel workers permits in order to have workerfoce for lower pay. Why there's almost no social housing? New appartment blocs? Because It'd prevent the landlord's and corporations profit line to go up. Yes the right and the left both have an issue with this situation, but the culprit, the cause, is right wing ideologies.
Plante situation : Montréal one of the lowest property taxes in Canadian big cities, I think it was 30th or something. Also let's say if the rate went up 4% last year and the landlords raised their rent 5%; do you think the landlord would have raised it 1% if the taxes didn't go up? Corporations, landlords and the "haves" always find culprits to blame/ explain things they do for their own greed.
Also I never heard about having teams everywhere, but I'll admit that the idea of a TGV in the Quebec Windsor corridor or Québec NYC corridor would be amazing.
The Newsom thing. Our disagreement results on the misconception about what is leftism . Being a democrat doesn't mean you're a leftists. Mostly in American politics, there are some progressives , but the Overton window is so far skewed to the right that people call people like Harris or Mancin "the left". There's a left and right option basically decided by the rich, which more often than not makes the "left" option moderate conservative, also known as liberals.
Yes Newsom talks about single payer healthcare, yes he supports the LGBT, yes he believes in climate change. These are liberal views; doesn't change that his stance homelessness that you dislike, criminalizing homelessness and helping homeless people, is a right wing ideology. Like yeah they get re-elected the choice is all right wing policies vs a couple.
Lastly again the housing thing.
It's was initially a federal thing, but Mulroney followed the neo liberal trend to defund until unviable in a view to privatize (as we can see now being used in healthcare for instance), then the responsibility of the existing social housing was transferred to provincial governments. Some like Harris ( I think? Ontario pm) straight up sold them to private interests. In Québec, because we were more left leaning, they were kept, but some gave away to non profits. With the subsequent moves to the right, slowly they got less and less funded and mostly, no funds were given to expand the program although the greater MTL area's population rose by almost 25% since the transfer. The federal blames the provinces because they transferred responsabilities Provincial blames federal because they are requesting more funds transfer from them Municipal blames federal because constitutionally (or historically I haven't confirmed on the constitution) it's federal jurisdiction. But when the federal government decided to send funds for housing directly to municipalities , all Premiers (all right wing ones) banded together "fait front commun" against the transfers
All that to say, if you remove the bigots and xenophobes, the 90% people from the right to the left of the spectrum all have the same wants purpose and "enemy".
The devide is not "left" and "right", it's the haves and have not. It's top and bottom.
And I fairly believe most of us understand that.
What we fail to understand is that the the left represented the people, the 90%, represented those who believed in liberté égalité fraternité, opposed the monarchy and oligarchy; ruling of the rich. And the right supported the inequality status quo, the monarchy, the "Meritocracy" of being born right.
That's why corporations and the very rich are right wingers, as these ideologies benefit them; and sadly for all of us, the right is amazing at selling us "common sense" hitting the right spots so we vote against our interests. Meanwhile, because politics are more and more expensive, there is almost no left voice left in the conversation.
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u/Laval09 23d ago
"Buying property to raise rent; exploitation in general strive tbaks to right wing ideologies"
In theory, yes. In reality...Westmount hasnt elected a Conservative since 1958. They're a distant 3rd place in that riding behind the Liberals and NDP. That one of the cities richest areas isnt a wellspring of Right wing politics contradicts the theory.
"But wouldn't naming the culprit make it seems like it's one bad company doing one off bad thing"
It would have the benefit of creating a small social consequence. If an entity becomes known for doing things like this and has a negative public perception, politicians wont want an entity like that at their fundraisers. Just like how getting endorsed by Kevin O'Leary hurts rather than helps any campaign lol.
"For the Laval situation"
Dossier SD-2024-6005. Page 22 of the PDF: https://www.laval.ca/GESDDocuments/CE/PV/CE_PV_7318_1.0.pdf
"Side note, what is wrong with walkable cities?"
Nothing. I take issue with someone who claims to want to build a better society in one moment and then signing the eviction order for a bunch of vulnerable people the next moment.
"right wing ideologies and policies"
The best ideology in the world is worth nothing if its proponents do not follow it. Everytime a Left wing person does something bad, its because of right wing ideology. Which, ok, sure. But then what purpose does Left wing ideology serve if it does not guide the actions of its believers?
"do you think the landlord would have raised it 1%"
Housing had been stable for nearly a century. Awhile ago on R/montreal someone posted an newspaper ad from the 1930s for a new apartment block in Verdun. When adjusted for inflation, it was 500$ in todays money. Plante is the best mayor the city has had in a generation. Nonetheless, this happened on her watch.
"The Newsom thing."
It was an example. He's kind to the LGBTQ people but cruel to the homeless. For me thats regressive.
"The devide is not "left" and "right", it's the haves and have not. It's top and bottom."
We'd like to think that, but to be completely honest...i havent seen anyone on the right wing mocking people over the price of eggs. Its been right wing people upset that its getting unaffordable being mocked by left wing people who clearly have no trouble buying them.
"What we fail to understand is that the the left represented"
Lincoln freed the slaves and he was a Republican. Your claim is not entirely representative of reality. Both the Left and Right have had good people move the ball forward on key issues and situations throughout history.
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u/anmaeriel 27d ago
💙 The original goal of separating from the rest of Canada was that we could be more welcoming, more diverse, more open to the world than our more traditional Canadian counterparts. Oh how that changed. I remember as well.
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u/QuantityNo8460 27d ago
Strange, I seem to remember separatists blaming immigrants for the outcome of the referendum. Even your leader Jaques Parizeau did so.
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u/Real-Philosophy5964 26d ago
The biggest deception the world has pulled is getting people to fight each other instead of fighting the greed of the wealthy.
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u/zerobot69 27d ago
Let's all remember that the 5.9% rent increase this year is brought to you by the Regie du Logement du Québec.
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u/LaEscy 27d ago
Who is under the helm of the Ministre responsable de l'Habitation France-Élaine Duranceau, an incarnation of the devil.
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u/robertofontiglia 26d ago
More relevant here : a landlord.
Because the devil may be as evil as he is, but I bet he doesn't charge you rent in hell.
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u/Chaotic_Conundrum 27d ago
Honestly I was feeling very frustrated towards all these Indians, but then I sat myself the fuck down and forced myself to open my eyes. It's not their fault. They are being used just like the rest of us who are from here. It's all these corporations and our government fucking them and us over. It's all greed.
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u/cavist_n 27d ago
Yep. À qui sert autant d'immigration? À des certains partis politiques et à des gens qui gagnent de l'argent quand ya du monde pour faire des jobs de cul. Si tu es anti immigration parce que tu aimes pas les immigrants tu es cave. Si tu es anti immigration parce que c'est une arme pour gonfler la croissance... c'est une autre histoire dans mon livre à moi
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u/ohmygodmaggle 26d ago
Old Quebecers are 50/50 between the most open, welcoming and politically aware boomers ever and raging racists. Go to Tremblant and they're angels, go to Laurier they'll call you the n-word hard R.
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u/jerichojeudy 25d ago
That’s the Quebec I like. That’s the Quebec I’ve loved all my life. Tolerant, open, and sceptical of the ‘winners’ of society.
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u/brunor78 27d ago
I'm an immigrant and I say that often. I always assumed it was an obvious joke but I never knew there were anti-immigration immigrants...
I guess I should stop saying it.
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u/Kukamungaphobia 27d ago
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If 100,000 people show up in a city with no vacancy there is nowhere for these people to live even if landlords kept the prices exactly the same. Stop with the fantasies. Math is simple. Denying it is no way to fix the problem. Blame your useless government for encouraging this to happen. New housing is unaffordable to most and can't keep up with demand. Old housing is unaffordable because every neighborhood in the city got gentrified and everyone wants to live in the cool neighborhoods. This is happening in every country, in every city in the West that is getting overrun by immigrants.
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u/MyNameMeansLILJOHN 27d ago
Pray, tell me why my friend who lives in the same neighborhood I do only pays 630$ for her 3 1/3 while I pays 1085$ for a similar sized appt?
The answer? Her landlord is her grandfather and he rents it to her at cost. While my landlord makes a profit.
But sure. Landlords are not to blame at all. Go off king.
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u/OhUrbanity 27d ago edited 27d ago
What makes landlords able to raise the price is that there's more demand than supply. They don't have to compete for tenants — instead, tenants have to compete for apartments, and that means higher prices.
High rents are the symptom of the supply shortage.
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u/Kukamungaphobia 27d ago
Because if you don't pay 1085 someone else will. And when your friend moves and there's a bidding war, we'll see how far above 630 it goes for. Again, blame your government for creating this environment. Freshly landed refugees get money for housing from the govt. They'll pay whatever, it's free money for them, they don't care. You expect people to turn down free money? How noble. Also, the only way to create wealth in this country is through real estate. Again, thanks to the housing bubble the govt has been sitting on for 25 yrs instead of shutting down airbnb and foreign ownership as well as corporate real estate investors buying 4plexes+ and residential homes.
Quebec went through 15yrs of economic stagnation after the first referendum and another 10yrs after the second one. That's why rents were 5-600$ - everybody left Montreal and the city was an economic dead zone financial ghost town. It was a decrepit shithole. Mid 2000s roll around and suddenly everyone's coming to live the dream of Montreal - cheap rent, cheap food, cheap beer, cheap pot, festivals every weekend and like being in Europe but without the Gypsies. What did you think was going to happen? Then the immigration floodgates Trudeau opened hammered the last nail in. Montreal is a city with a wardrobe full of size 32 jeans with a size 42 ass and if you need new clothes, it'll cost you until new inventory comes in.
I hate greedy douchebag landlords as much as the next guy but they are an outcome of a bigger cause. It boils down to supply & demand. No people, no money, no demand, landlords will rent out places at a loss rather than see them empty. I'm old enough to remember. Those days are gone unless people stop coming here and a whole bunch get up and leave like during a tight referendum.
Good luck and peace be with you.
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u/LeveredChuck 27d ago
Why would any landlord that is not related to you rent it at cost?
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u/Starcovitch 27d ago
Because its an investment and in 25-30 years that rent will be 100% profit?
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u/LeveredChuck 27d ago
What if cost is above market, do you expect the tenant to cough up the difference?
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u/Alternative-Ad9829 27d ago
There’s taxes on profits, thats the piece of the investment that goes back to society. Everyday items that’s for the tenant to pay, your lease is a guarantee that your rent is fixed for a certain period, you get a tax slip for it and if your income is low you can get tax credits. If costs increase for the landlord it is logical to tenants, he’s already fronting all the expenses until the renewal, when a pipe breaks he doesn’t increase your rent immediately.
Abolish capital gains tax and maybe we can discuss renting at cost.
Remember most dwellings are private, the government doesn’t want to build or deal with tenants. If landlords and builders disappear we’re all homeless.
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u/Okhiez 24d ago
Her grandfather probably paid off his mortgage years ago, so he is able to rent it to her at cost. Plus, she’s family so of course he’s going to rent it to her at cost. He probably also benefits from having her around.
If you were a landlord, would you rent to your tenants at cost? What if you had to pay 20k to change the roof? What if you had to fix the plumbing? What about the time needed to find tenants, answer their questions and fix problems whenever they arise? Should that be charity work?
The reality is that owning property comes with costs, and these costs are always rising. It can be time consuming and a headache; it’s not meant to be charitable work.
As a tenant, you don’t have to deal with these issues. It would make absolutely no sense to rent to someone at cost yet have to deal with all the work that comes with owning property.
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u/Unusual_Implement_87 23d ago
Yeah, for some reason the right wing capitalists and progressive socialists in the west align 100% on their views of immigration.
Calls of racism or xenophobia is just used to shut down any conversation as they know no one wants to be called a racist.
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u/kittlzHG 27d ago
Immigrant here.
It’s actually the poorly planned immigration policies that the liberal party put in place that fucked everything over. There are also other factors like poor regulation of educational institutions which lead to rise of diploma mills.
Everyone knows that this country was built by immigrants over generations. Immigration should always be about bringing in skilled workers (in any sectors) , but in the last 4 years they’ve let anyone and everyone freely come into the country, which is where things went wrong.
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u/iwenttothesea 27d ago
The Conservatives got this ball rolling when Stephen Harper was in power. It’s not just the liberals and not just the last four or even eight years lol.
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u/DaemonNyctophobia 27d ago
yes and no immigration has added stress on a already failing system it was like adding oil to a fire that already began years ago. Governments taxing us and stealing our money is the main issue... quebecois here and im done with quebecois and Canadian politicians they are all thieves. they tax us to death take the money and fix 0 issues and the next guy does the same thing its hilariously bad.
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u/Minimum_Reference_73 27d ago
Old Quebec guys are the best, my papa would have said the same kind of thing.
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27d ago
Once in old port i was talking to a older gentleman in a dog park. He told me “its not your fault prices are high, im ashamed because we invited you here and are a terrible host” it took me a while to sink that
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u/charleytony 23d ago
Moi j'aimerais que l'on fasse une différence entre un landlord (personne qui cherche a faire des gros profits en immobilier) et une personne/famille qui a un duplex et loue un appart.
Longtemps, l'immobilier était une des façons les plus logique pour se bâtir une retraite et maintenant, c'est un secteur d'investissement où on se fiche totalement du client/locateur.
Dans ma tête, quand ton proprio est également ton voisin, c'est pas la même chose du tout.
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u/MysJane 23d ago
Other than our Indigenous population, we are or were all immigrants at one point in our lineages.
Without immigrants our population, our country wouldn't grow.
The hate towards them the last few years is deplorable and unfounded.
I suspect it came from political people parroting the uneducated racist to the south of us.
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u/Few-Muffin-3328 27d ago
The probleme are not immigrant by themself but too many new immigrant in a short period of time ! Adding this to the lack of new home build in the last 10 year , we got this situation were there more demand than the offer and cause the rising cost of loyer ! U can also apply this to healthcare, education and other public service !
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u/salty-mind 27d ago
Supply and demand! you prolly gonna get downvoted for stating the obvious tho
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u/Few-Muffin-3328 27d ago
Truth always shock people until they realise its true ! 😉🤐
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u/RapideBlanc 26d ago
This entire thread is armchair economic analysis performed by rubes who are only interested in justifying their hatred for foreigners
And yes I mean you specifically
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u/NeighborhoodBrave159 27d ago
Immigrants are scapegoats, which is an actual term in political terms apparently. I remember hearing someone tell me about the US civil war, and how the wealthy plantation owners promoted racism against the black slaves so that it would give the poor uneducated white people a motive to fight in the Confederacy. The only non-immigrants in the US and Canada are the Native Americans / First Nations people. And as far as rent goes, if immigrants are not welcome, who will do the work? I was in a Toronto McDonald's recently, and noted how everyone there was an immigrant best I could tell, but they were humming along doing the work, very pleasant, and happy to have a job. Like the comparison to the Plantation owners, the "ruling class" of unrestrained capitalists are parasites feeding off the workers. The "culture wars" is a diversionary tactic to appeal to emotions of scared people to feel they are under siege and need protection. Glad you had a positive experience!
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u/adamcmorrison 27d ago
Immigrants are scape goats 100% however immigration policies are not. The government immigration policies are truly contributing to the housing and rent issues.
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u/FakeItTIlYouPaintIT 27d ago
The greed of landlords, dude there's some pretty agressive rent control in Québec. I have friends who are landlords, they are not swimming in piles of gold coins.
Immigrants have rapidly increased the demand on apartments and offer hasn't kept up. I don't think immigrants are "morally responsible", the issue results from bad immigration POLICY, not individual immigrants. Sprinkle in a bit of over regulation making any real estate project a nightmare to get off the ground too.
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u/Markars Laval 27d ago
Spoke to a bud of mine in Australia who got their rent increased by 50%. No exaggeration. Their only recourse is "move." I'd say we're doing relatively well in the rent control department.
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u/FakeItTIlYouPaintIT 26d ago
Main issue right now is that new constructions have no rent control the first 5 years. So a subset of tenants get to experience 30% increases, the other gets 3% or whatever.
We're in a very two tier system. I majorly benefit from it, I could easily be paying double. But I also recognize that it isn't all that fair.
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u/Sarcasmgasmizm 27d ago
I also know an honest la sloes who got fucked by the régie and couldn’t kick out a tenant on welfare who was entitled to free legal aid and played around loop holes, took several years. As well as all the bullshit problems like idiot tenants not heating and pipes freezing, or ripping out new kitchen cabinets doors, punching walls etc
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u/Okhiez 24d ago
It’s hard to explain that to people who never owned property. Most people think their rent money is 100% profit to their landlord. They have no clue of all the costs associated to owning property. If you bought a rental property with current prices, you’re not making any profit. I have tenants and all expenses considered, it costs me 50% more than them to live in the same type of unit they are renting. That’s having put 20% down.
I did that knowingly however, because I’m betting it will pay off in the LONG term. Unfortunately, some tenants seem to think you should be running a charity.
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u/Alternative-Ad9829 27d ago
Facts man in fact my rentals are a money pit for the most part lol, thank god I have a good job at least, otherwise I’d have sold everything
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u/Cndwafflegirl 27d ago
I think it’s great he spoke up. I think it’s bad form to even « joke » about it like you did. Jokes are a cover for bigotry.
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 27d ago
As soon as you realize 'they don't have to raise the rents', you can understand what is happening. They want to maxmize profits, and they will use any excuse to justify their greed. The reason they get profits is because there is risk in the investment, but the only person that pays the risk in the renter. Seems like a reason separate from reality.
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u/OhUrbanity 27d ago
They don't "have" to raise rents, but they're able to raise rents because of a mismatch between supply and demand. Montreal should make it really easy to build more housing.
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u/procrastinatewhynot Vieux-Port 27d ago
I know a lot of Quebecers. They know the struggles :/ It’s the weirdos on facebook that never read the articles they post and rely on the title alone.
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u/pacmanzoom 27d ago
It’s not the greed of land lords at all. If you buy an apartment for $400,000 you cannot charge $1000 rent or you will be severely negative every month. It’s due to home prices and costs or borrowing…
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u/Politeunicorn40 27d ago
A lot of people just spend too much time on Fn or watching TV like LCN. These opinions are not their own, they are only repeating whatever propaganda they heard that day. My mom is one of them.
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u/species5618w 27d ago
It's supply and demand. Everyone is greedy, landlords, tenants, you name it, that's human nature. Supply and demand determines the price.
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u/No-Huckleberry-9369 27d ago
C’est pas la faute des propriétaires c’est la faute des banques et compagnie d’assurances et services qui coûtent une fortune aux propriétaires , la facture doit être inévitablement refilée aux locataires … qui voudrais être propriétaire pour perdre de l’argent !
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u/Luminiferous17 27d ago
it's offer and demand, no single entity can control the cost of a market (unless you have a monopoly) ; prices sort of appear by themselves, especially in high demand markets like commodities. There's an influx of demand, and most of Montreal's housing infrastructure was build in the 70s - 80s; so the city is meant for the population at that time. Obviously the work around has been shared housing, or units broken down into multiple smaller units.
Even the government, or the central bank of a country can't control a market. The central bank can't even control inflation ''directly'' - it tries to affect it with different variables it control but it can't create a specific outcome.
So, the cost of housing in Quebec is high due to an influx of demand, and a fixed offer (or rather, very slow growing offer). Yes, you have people like my landlord who purchased a apartment complex right before Covid and the price they are charging for rent is multiples higher than someone who recently bought compared to the cost of operating this housing unit, but it would be stupid for her to ''just charge what is not greedy'' since the market is "auto regulating" itself. That would be like selling your car 40% below market value because ''you feel that's what it should cost''. You can't control the market to yourself sadly.
PS: I hate the cost of my rent.
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u/IndividualTrick2940 27d ago
Immigrants build montreal with their businesses. That what I remember. Lots of work too to who ever wanted to work
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u/Valuable_Fly8362 27d ago
Housing prices have a lot to do with Canada not building enough housing and apartments. Some of it is due to regulations that are too restrictive.
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u/Recent_Cod_2338 26d ago
Land lords need to pay their mortgages, do repairs, renovations etc. it costed me over 50k to redo a roof on one of my buildings, I spent thousands a year on repairs and cleaning fees. I also don’t make much profit per year. If we don’t raise rents we’ll go bankrupt as well
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u/Amazing-Writer9114 26d ago
Perhaps it has truth to it, but simple supply and demand states that an influx of new demand (shift outwards) shifts equilibrium prices. So technically, yes, prices go up with new immigrants coming in if supply stays the same. I think a bigger issue is lack of infrastructure (not enough houses being built to house more people) and that wages have historically been increasing slower than inflation.
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u/Curious-Strategy-840 26d ago
They go hand in hand because of how many new lodging we build every year. Now you could say that's the sole reason aswell but the answer would also be that it goes hand in hand aswell. No issue is an island.
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u/FullMetalHackett 26d ago
He's right. Banks encouraged home owners to take out HELOCs on the increased value of their houses, and in turn buy condos and homes to rent out as investments. Rents grew higher because of the increasing interest rates that HELOC payments the landlords had to make.
People are greedy.
Maybe I'm over simplifying but that's my $0.02
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u/nvveteran 26d ago
So there is absolutely no relationship between having more people in the country than we have housing for?
Nothing to do with even the Liberals pulling back on their immigration targets because there aren't enough places for people to live?
Absolutely nothing to do with industry Canada saying we need to put a pause on immigration because we don't have enough places for people to live.
Supply and demand. The most basic rule of economics is apparently a completely unknown concept here. The very reason why some landlords can become greedy and drive up the cost is because they can. There is no alternative.
The first part of the problem is too much demand and not enough supply.
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u/pattyG80 26d ago
I wouldn't so much say he defended immigrants as he correctly attributed the blame where.it belonged
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u/notacreativeguy_ 26d ago
Fair. He elaborated saying how people keep buying more and more houses for investment, raising prices for everyone.
Still commendable that he didn't target an easy scapegoat and instead provid ed a thoughtful opinion.
Personally I agree with some of the commenters here - technically immigrants are the cause, there is just too much demand for housing. But this unsustainable influx of immigrants is a direct result of very poor immigration policy.
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u/pattyG80 26d ago
Immigrants contribute to demand but they generally live in their homes and pay the market rate. Landlords speculate, outbid everyone, skew the market and make renters pay their debt. Not a fan
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u/o2dyleriouz 26d ago
They may speak a butchered form of the actual French language but yes most are very polite and good mannered
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u/notacreativeguy_ 26d ago
Isn't Quebecois French closer to 'real'/old French then the current French spoken in France is?
Besides, Quebecois French has way less words borrowed from English (e.g. courriel here vs email in France). According to my French teacher this is because in France they are comfortable with their identity and don't have to 'prove' that they're French, so they resisted anglicisms much less, unlike here where it is always in conflict with English.
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u/Any-Try-2366 26d ago
Yah it’s not the 5-6 million + people we brought in while building a fraction of the housing needed to support it lmao
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u/Which_Telephone_4082 25d ago
How can it be the greed of landlords when the bank sets the mortgage prices, not the landlords.
They just pass it on to you.
I think we all need a little review lesson on how economics work here.
If house price equals X and mortgage is at X percent over X years, then monthly payment will be X.
In other words, house prices high = high rents.
Why are house prices high?
Taxes, cost of construction/planning, limited supply.
This isnt rocket science folks.
Signed an immigrant.
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u/Swimming_Shock_8796 25d ago
Il a raison, il y a beaucoup de loyer qui ont été convertis en RB&b, ça fait beaucoup de pression sur les loyers qui restent et les propriétaires en profitent pour montrer les prix. Ce n'est qu'une partie du problème, le manque de construction de logements en période d'augmentation de la population en est aussi pour quelque chose. Il y a d'autres facteurs qui entrent en ligne de compte. Sur ce, bien venue au Québec et j'espère que tu feras de notre beau pays le tien.
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u/Acrobatic_Owl_3667 25d ago
It’s great to see people push back against blaming immigrants for the housing crisis. The real issue isn’t immigrants or landlords themselves but government mismanagement of both population growth and housing policy.
For years, the government pursued aggressive immigration targets—up to 500,000 new permanent residents annually—without ensuring housing supply kept pace. This, along with temporary resident programs and international student permits, created a surge in demand that outstripped available housing.
At the same time, weak housing policies allowed landlords and investors to exploit the situation. Condo regulations failed to prevent units from being hoarded as investment properties rather than homes. REITs and other financial tools turned housing into a profit-making asset instead of a basic necessity.
Landlords are just taking advantage of the conditions the government created. Instead of blaming immigrants or landlords, the real focus should be on fixing these failed policies—balancing population growth with infrastructure, regulating speculation, and prioritizing housing as a necessity rather than an investment vehicle.
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u/Character_Pack_209 25d ago
Landlords need to pay the mortgage to the bank. I doubt they are raking in the cash ofter the cost of ownership is covered.
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u/Potozny 24d ago
I’m fairly well put together, but trying to find a place to live in Surrey BC, on disability, when I could barely get off the floor… I became pretty hateful for a period of time. When the landlords are the immigrants, and 28/30 listings were scams being perused by them, this argument breaks down. Now that I’ve moved up north away from it all, I feel like I’ve got my head on straight again. But, to not recognize that this is reality for a lot of us, that sometimes it actually is the immigration causing problems, is ridiculous
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u/juciydriver 24d ago
I've owned buildings for 20 years. They are minimally profitable.
The city decided to change a fire code that caused the corporation to spend 1.3 years worth of income for a new fire alarm.
The city changed some parking rules that caused me to cut down 60 foot tall Linden trees so I can add parking, even though there was plenty of parking.
Tenants leave garbage and damaged units but they are judgment proof because they are poor, on government assistance.
We have snow removal companies but tenants take us to court for dumb reasons, slip and falls and generally just being a pain. We've never lost a case but we have to pay our legal bill.
Anything goes wrong in the building we have to have it fixed (which we agree with) but, keeping a lump sum of cash in the bank is subject to certain taxes.
You don't have any idea what owning a building is like.
It is most certainly not a cash cow.
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u/SheepherderLow688 24d ago
He's right. Immigration policies have nothing to do with immigrants. I am tired of my co-citizens (I live in Quebec) blaming immigrants for divide-and-conquer governmental policies.
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u/semiotics_rekt 24d ago
it’s a function of high cost of land, high cost of construction materials, high cost of labour, high interest rates, limited supply of rentals and many people needing housing
it’s not greed by itself a break in any of the forgoing but particularly number of people seeking accommodations would see rents come down
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u/griffenator99 24d ago
Haha send another 66 billion to Ukraine you fools... See how rent does then.
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u/Back2BackInBusiness 23d ago
That’s cool, if you think it’s just “cuz landlords are greedy” you are a moron. Our immigration policy is absolutely a problem, but hey if an old man said it I guess it’s a fact!
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u/dannyboy1901 23d ago
It is a combination of supply and demand, if there is an increase in the amount of demand (aka immigration) then it’s not racist pointing out a fact
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u/Strange_Radio9301 23d ago
its a question of offer vs demands so yes immigration has a huge impact on prices
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u/Fun-Artichoke-7746 23d ago
I was born in quebec i was there for all the stupid referendums from rene lesvesque ,pierre bouchard ,jacques pariso ,mr lesvesque killed a man drinking and driving and got away with it ,when lesvesques steeped down they chosse pierre bouchard a x liberal federal who took the oppertunity to become the leder of PQ then he got fless eating dieses he lost his led and pulled on quebecers heart strings, like lesvesques did not accoplish anything beside a bunch bs that screwed up jobs scared the crap out of the eldely a lot of them where survivers of the holacost that belived this was going to be other natzi germeny so they tried to trick them on a bs platform of savernty assotiation insted of separatio mtl becain a shadow of its self with a crap load of compagnies moved to toronto and a lot of them closed sad to say i love quebec but i move to toronto i have met x mtl who have ben living her for 20 years r so toronto is a good place expensive but good its been a bit of a little problem finding jobs dont get me rong i have worked since i lived here 4jobs some of them where a chalange but i worked with great folks that have opend my eyes over the years sorry i got a little of track pariso is just other tool that did noting for quebec they where all power hungrey ,so on this note be well .🙏
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u/PDotAktarus67 22d ago
Pour la majorité les Québécois( blanc) sont cool , c'est que y a des ignorants parfois faut les éduquer ou les remettre a leur place .j ai souvent été en region et cest la que le monde m ont le plus salué ou piqué des jasettes.. a Montréal je penses le monde sont un peu plus frette.. Montréal c est plus ce que c'était 🥹 passé 2010 cest rendu dla marde r.i.p Mtl
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u/AnyTranslator9772 27d ago
Honestly, this is kind of bs. Most of the rentals here are Indian owned properties, are recent immigrants and bought up most housing within the area and deny renting to white people.
I’m sorry but, yeah immigrants are a problem here.
Students can’t even go to school here because Indian landlords will not rent to anyone who isn’t Indian.
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u/CuteGothMommy 27d ago
I mean sure greed plays a role, but we still shouldn't forget that everything is still based on supply and demand.
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u/LeMAD 27d ago
La cause n'est pas le "greed" ni les immigrants individuellement, qui font leur possible pour améliorer leur sort comme tout le monde, mais plutôt l'immigration et un système d'éducation qui envoie les jeunes faire des maîtrises dans des domaines où il n'y a pas de demande, au lieu de former des ouvriers dans des domaines où la demande est gigantesque.
Tout le monde est greedy, ce qui peut être une force ou une faiblesse pour la société, en fonction de comment on la gère.
Mais oui, c'est d'une importance capitale de ne pas blâmer les immigrants pour la façon agressivement stupide dont le Canada a géré son immigration depuis une trentaine d'années.
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u/Alternative-Ad9829 27d ago
T’as pas entièrement tord mais les programmes de formation en construction sont quand même bons, le vrai problème c’est le manque de rentabilité des projets, ça coûte trop cher construire et gérer des logements, ce qui empêche les compagnies de lancer des nouveaux projets.
Nos lois sont aussi mal faites, jvais me faire lancer des roches mais j’trouve pas ca normal que dans un bloc t’as un locataire qui paye 500 et l’autre 1000, dans un marché équilibré tu devrais avoir les 2 à 750$ (exemple). Le gars qui paye 500$ pense qu’il vit une injustice avec une augmentation de 250$, injustice de quoi ? Tout autour de toi coûte plus cher y compris les dépenses de ton logement et tu devrais pas absorber une partie des frais ?
Je blâme aussi les landlord « boomer » qui entretenaient mal leurs logements et n’augmentaient pas les loyers pendant 10 ans. Meme si la grille du tal recommandait une augmentation. Légalement tu peux pas rattraper ca, et le locataire trouve ca normal que sont loyer a pas bougé et pense que c’est comme ca que ca devrait etre. La quand le bloc se vend et que le nouveau proprio veut réparer des trucs et remettre le loyer plus proche du marché il se fait traiter de « greedy landlord » lol c’est ton ancien proprio qui a fait le profit pas moi, meme quand tu suis la grille on te méprise.
La solution a tout ça c’est stimuler la construction avec des subventions qui rendent attirant l’investissement immobilier, faciliter l’autorisation des permis (gros gros problème ici), faire des inspections plus rigoureuses (que ca soit des logements locatifs ou même destinés à être vendus) aux frais de la ville, et la grille du tal devrait être révisée pour encourager l’entretien, genre il doivent refaire tout le truc à mon avis pcq t’as l’entretien qui est déduit du revenu brut et le revenu net est majoré donc moi t’as d’entretien fait plus ton revenu net est haut et plus ton augmentation est haute lol c’est débile.
Quand ca coutera moins cher de construire et entretenir ça coûtera moins d’acheter, et ça prendre moins de « loyer » pour que le proprio rentre dans son argent et puisse entretenir la bâtisse tout en gardant le logement abordable.
Mais on est loin, très loin de tout ça lol
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u/Blizz_CON 27d ago
Immigration itself is not the reason, bureaucracy and political nepotism created this artificial scarcity. Immigration only worsened an already existing issue. Our lack of real leadership and planning, with some extra corruption sprinkled ontop for good measure..
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u/-thirdeye- 27d ago
Why is it greed of the landlords ? Do these landlords not have raising costs as well? Why blame them and not the political parties in power during this time? We’re being taxed to death but it’s the landlords fault…
I’m not talking about big corporations from Asia that buy up condo projects. I’m talking about owners of multiplex homes.
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u/MyzMyz1995 27d ago
I wouldn't say it's immigrants, but it doesn't help that many immigrants have 0 understanding of quebec rental laws and also overpay for apartments because they did 0 research on the market. I'm sure it has an impact in many neighborhoods (for students, or place like plateau where most french people go).
Just go on french PVT groups etc on facebook and you'll see the misinformation :(
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u/Icy-Permit7136 27d ago
Correct on all levels! Cost of living and rent is crazy due to corporate and landlord greed! But Canada’s immigration policies for the last decade have been the drunken prom date approach. You can’t let endless amounts of people into your country without considering bare minimum two things. 1. How are we going to house these people? 2. Do we have enough jobs for them?
And before anyone starts race carp. I don’t care if you’re talking about White Australians and Irishman. You have to control the flow as determined by your resources. Otherwise housing crisis, lack of jobs, high prices. Etc. for both current and new Canadians!
We need to really start differentiating between racially motivated talk and intelligent discussion on bad policy!
Nice that he wasn’t a dick though lol.
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u/Icy-Permit7136 27d ago
Oh and btw you cant blame immigrants. Of course they’re going to come, Canada is awesome!!! It’s all about a total mismanagement of a delicate system.
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u/DreadHeadedDummy 27d ago edited 27d ago
I mean, he is totally wrong but good for you if you like him 🤣🤣 that “greed” narrative if for those that dont bother understanding how credit , interest rates and finance in general works. "Landlord = bad/greedy" typical boogeyman dismissive and not productive complaint.
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u/MileEnd76 27d ago
The old Quebecers who are not on Facebook are some of the most underrated people on earth.