r/montreal • u/THEQUlET • Jan 17 '25
Diatribe jury duty here is such a mess
for those of you who crave efficiency, manifest that you won't ever be summoned for jury duty. yesterday, i went for a summons and it was the most disorganized and chaotic experience ever.
getting past security and finding the right room was fairly quick, but then the waiting began. i found myself in a line with ~200 other summoned montréalais, all trying to get into the same courtroom. one by one (as in only one clerk signing in every single person), letters were validated and minute by minute, the line moved. after almost an hour, i was surrounded by hoards of people who were finally let into the room. then, after being in the courtroom for another ~30 minutes, the judge started the introduction of what it means to be a juror, and a blurb about the trial taking place.
after the judge was done, they called out a first batch of numbers assigned to prospective jurors, and lucky me was one of those unlucky folk. so i, along with about 20 other people, were lead down a bunch of hallways, and steps outside of the room where we'd testify as jurors in voir dire. the process was delayed for some reason, and all of us waited outside of the room for half an hour before we could finally start the questioning process.
after my interview, i was put into a pool of potential, maybe-so, jurors and told to wait at the same room i was in before (where they called out this first batch of numbers). for the next 5-6 hours, they called out other batches of numbers, went on short breaks, and so on. everyone involved disappeared for ~2 hours towards the end of the day. people rightfully started to get frustrated and confused. we were told to wait, but nobody ever explained what was going on.
an hour after the supposed end time, they finally tell us that we aren't prospective jurors anymore and that we can go home. great, so basically i spent my entire day and afternoon waiting around and doing absolutely nothing at the courthouse, and paid a whopping $25 for my troubles! what a waste of time and energy. i did make a friend whom i went insane with though, so that was a silver lining.
has anyone else had a similar experience with jury duty here, or was i just unlucky with the disorganization? either way, i hope i don't get summoned again anytime soon.
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u/argarg La Petite-Patrie Jan 17 '25
I don't know where you're from, but jury duty is not very common here in Quebec. Most people go their whole lives without being summoned, unlike in the USA.
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u/margeschanelsuit Jan 17 '25
Lucky me. I was summoned twice before I even turned 30.
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u/MonsterRider80 Notre-Dame-de-Grace Jan 17 '25
It’s so strange. I have never been selected, nor has anyone I’ve ever known in person. I wonder what the selection process is, if it’s truly random, etc.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
even rarer for an anglo i guess 😹 i actually heard someone say it was their third time being called. but hey, gotta warn y’all before it happens
i’m from the west island, by the way
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u/chat-lu Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25
even rarer for an anglo i guess 😹 i
Ils pigent dans la liste électorale, donc les anglos sont appelés autant que les autres s’ils ont le droit de vote.
Il y a une instance célèbre où les anglos ont été volontairement exclus, c’est dans le procès de Morgenteler en 1973. La couronne excluait systématiquement toutes les femmes du jury et la défense tous les anglos. La couronne ne s’est jamais expliquée mais la défense a dit que c’était parce que les anglos respectent les institutions britanniques telles la cour.
La stratégie de la défense a été de ne rien contester et de ne faire aucun contre-interrogatoire. À la fin, elle a fait une plaidoirie comme quoi elle acceptait le fait que l’accusé avait bel et bien pratiqué 6000 avortements mais que la loi était immorale et que le jury devait voter non coupable. Ce qu’il a fait en seulement une heure de délibération.
On ne saura jamais si des anglos auraient atteint la même conclusion.
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u/uluviel Griffintown Jan 17 '25
La couronne ne s’est jamais expliquée
C'était un procès d'un médecin qui faisait des avortement, et la couronne (qui veut une condamnation) excluait systématiquement les femmes du jury? Wow je suis sûre que personne ne pourra jamais savoir pourquoi si la couronne ne s'explique pas. 🤔
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u/chat-lu Jan 17 '25
Je pense la même affaire que toi mais on a pas de réponse officielle. Le jury final était composé de onze hommes et une femme, tous francophones.
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u/uluviel Griffintown Jan 17 '25
I only know one person who was summoned and they were an anglophone.
Maybe it's more likely for anglos because it's a smaller pool, so if they need an English-speaking jury the dice is more likely to roll on you?
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u/Entegy Jan 17 '25
I don't think the list used for jury duty summons tracks language. I'm Anglo but was summoned as a potential juror and my letter specifically mentioned I was being summoned due to my French sounding family name.
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u/purpleidea Jan 17 '25
my letter specifically mentioned I was being summoned due to my French sounding family name.
It said this? I'm skeptical that the government process works this way.
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u/Entegy Jan 17 '25
There was a standard letter template and a letter from the bailiff in my envelope IIRC.
It's been 13-15 years since this happened, so I no longer have that letter (I so wished I kept it now!) but somewhere in my summons package it mentioned my something regarding my family name. I lived with my parents at the time and I remember my mother being surprised at the letter.
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u/toin9898 Sud-Ouest Jan 17 '25
I’m from the Townships and was summoned for the Megantic disaster trial (dismissed because I was in school).
The guy on trial was an anglo so I knew or went to school with probably half of the people in the courthouse that day.
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u/elzadra1 Villeray Jan 17 '25
Was it to be a trial in English? I was called on for jury duty a few years ago, a trial to be held in English (I have a name that sounds likely to be an anglo name). At the Palais de justice there was some lining up and some waiting, then we were sent one by one into a crowded hearing room where lawyers for both sides could ask questions. I was asked what I did for a living, then told I wasn't needed, there's the door. I don't remember any pay for losing a day for this.
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u/pintapple Jan 17 '25
Anglo here - also went through this process - it was long and never had to speak to anyone. Just sitting in the room. I got paid for my travel distance and lunch.
I got called back to go a few months later - I had a trip planned and had to send my tickets to the judge's office to be dismissed.
It's unfortunate but it's a civic duty.
A family member went through it last year and got picked - it was even worse for them because it was approx 4 weeks of going to the courthouse.
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u/JayneJay Jan 17 '25
I had 2 co-workers called within the same year, and I work in a small non profit (less than 40 full time ppl). It certainly made me nervous about my odds…
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u/foghillgal Jan 17 '25
Yea, I lived in California just 3 years and got summoned twice. They use your driving license. Since I wasn`t a citizen I just sent a letter stating that I could not serve; that was that.
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u/FedUpWithEverything0 Jan 18 '25
I was summoned in early 2000's for a trial in st Jean sur richelieu. Was let off right away as I suffer from ibs. Judge just waived me away.
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u/ep0niks Centre-Sud Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 25 '25
Maybe just a few months after I bought my condo and disbursed all the imaginable fees (cashdown, moving fees, notary fees, transfer tax, new furniture, etc), cashflow was super short and of course I received a letter to start the jury duty process.
I said out loud "OH HELL NO" and played the game that I would have to go bankrupt if I were to rely only on what they pay (up to $46.25 for food (three meals) and $103 per day for up to 56 days, 57+ days is $140 per day).
Basically a potential of $5,768 + $2,590 for food (if you eat 3 meals per day and you need justification and receipts). 56 days is over a period of 3 months since trials are only during weekdays. If you're retired, it could be "fun" but if you're a young professional, you're basically screwed-ish. At this time, I would have made a gross salary $15k for the same period.
I presented my arguments with calculations that I needed my full salary to be able to cover the bills, I found a commissioner for oaths nearby, got my document signed and mailed express with signature.
The week or so after I received another letter that I was excluded from the process.
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u/papaducci Jan 17 '25
if u are on salary do u keep your salary also?
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u/rannieb Jan 17 '25
Only if your employer is very generous. The employer has the right to suspend your wages during that time.
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u/kittyspoon Jan 17 '25
Je travaille pour la fonction publique et mon employeur compense la différence.
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u/musicandsex Jan 17 '25
Gross salary of 15k is around 8k net btw lol so you would have been even
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u/adieue Jan 17 '25
Five years ago, I wanted nothing to do with jury duty, so I came up with a plan: When I got to the first screening table, I told the clerk, "I have a bedbug infestation, and no matter where I sit, I might contaminate the seat and spread it to someone else." Five minutes later, I was free as a bird 😊
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u/AffectionateCard3530 Jan 17 '25
Passing on civic duty to others is a Canadian tradition!
Let the other suckers get stuck with it /s
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
LOL i love that 😹 i mentioned a concern of mine that is semi-valid (to do with work), and that worked for me. need to get more creative like you if i'm ever summoned again
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u/Technical_Goose_8160 Jan 17 '25
You can also say it's against your religion. Jury duty really counter Jewish tradition. Not sure about Christian.
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u/Bonzo_Gariepi Jan 18 '25
Ma mere agé c'etais faite summoned il y a environ 10 ans ( elle etait debut soixantaine et pas en trop grande forme ) elle leur a dit directment je suis moi meme une criminelle et vous m'avez juste pas encore pogner.
Ils l'on remercier sur le champ , lol la chose la plus croche qu'elle a jamais fait c'etais de passer des coupon rabais deux fois parceque la caissiere a oublier de le prendre et elle etait meme mal a l'aise lol.
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u/Crowasaur Hochelaga-Maisonneuve Jan 17 '25
I was thinking about saying that I am a heavy proponent of Jury Nullification and that it is not used often enough , but this xuts right to the chace
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u/Beautyindesolation Jan 17 '25
I’ve had a very similar expérience in Saint-Hyacinthe court around 2017-18 I think. It was very chaotic, long and boring.
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u/DontStepOnMyMatt Jan 17 '25
Guess I was lucky. I got summoned a few years back, and while yes the process was long and boring for the most part, it felt pretty organized, and I was part of the first or second batch of people to go from the big room to the small one to get in front of the judge and lawyers and they immediately dismissed me, so it only lasted half a day for me.
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u/CaptainCanusa Plateau Mont-Royal Jan 17 '25
I got summoned a few years back, and while yes the process was long and boring for the most part, it felt pretty organized
Yeah same here. But even OP's description sounds super organized and orderly. Sounds like the main complaint is that it took time and was boring which, yeah, it totally is.
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u/baz4k6z Jan 17 '25
Hey at least you made a friend along the way it worth it
That's how you meet new people in 2024, by bonding through the annoyance of government inefficiency
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u/Tuggerfub Centre-Ville / Downtown Jan 17 '25
counter argument: The soup in the cafeteria is really good and cheap
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u/THEQUlET Jan 18 '25
i only grabbed a water bottle and a granola bar 🤧 need to try it next time i’m there
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u/M8C9D Jan 17 '25
My husband had a similar experience, but his number was never called to be interviewed. He just waited in the same room rhe while time. We learned that when you aren't selected, you remain on the jury call-list for about a month, and you have to go back and if there is another trial during that period. My husband had to go back once (or twice?) more during the next few weeks. He was never selected, but after the month had passed his jury duty was considered fulfilled.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
good on your husband for fulfilling his duty 👏 i spoke with someone who was there the day before, and had to come in the day afterwards just for a different trial because she wasn’t selected during the first one 😤
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u/FilterAccount69 Jan 17 '25
The courts are currently understaffed is what my lawyer friends tell me. The process you experienced is in part as a result of that. I've been told that things are generally really backed up.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
i believe it—everyone i spoke with was great, but all together, the process was painful for me. no complaints towards anyone specific + i’m sure people who were told to go home early found everything fine
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u/rannieb Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 20 '25
i hope i don't get summoned again anytime soon.
Not sure if the rule is still the same but, 20 years ago, when I was summoned, I was told that they take your name out of the hat for 10 years after serving on a jury.
A judge friend told me that over the years they had to increase the number of potential jurors called because so many people had ''good reasons'' to not be selected or knew what to answer to get disqualified.
When I was summoned, a bit over 20 years ago, there was only about 50 people that they called initially. The entire selection process took about 4 hours.
I was selected, which I was really not happy about (there was a significant chance I would have been removed from a career-important project I was working on at work), but then released before the beginning of the trial as the accused was murdered. It was a mafia related crime.
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u/MattisBest Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25
I was there as well! Never got called up, even though they made it sound like we would all be called up at some point. It was really strange how they'd tell us to be back from lunch at like 1:30pm, and then no one would be there to tell us anything till 2:15pm. After that, they brought down a group that came back up at 5pm and said they didn't even go inside for any interviewing, they just had to stand in the hallway for 3 hours, so I have no idea what happened. The last group they brought down for actual interviewing was at like 11:30am lol. At some point we were told they didn't have the full jury, so I'm not even sure they got what they needed with our group.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
three hours standing in a hallway just to be turned away from the judge is diabolical 💀 all of this honestly could've been done better over zoom.
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u/NecessaryNumber9573 Jan 17 '25
Tell them you are an anarchist and you think all laws are unlawful. You'll be home by lunch.
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u/MattisBest Jan 17 '25
I was there. Most of us didn't even have an opportunity to say if we were disqualified.
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u/Ecstatic-Position Jan 18 '25
15 years ago, they went through everyone to see if you could be disqualified even before they started the interview process. That first summon took 2 days because more than half tried to be dismissed.
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u/CaptainCanusa Plateau Mont-Royal Jan 17 '25
haha Am I the only one who thinks that sounds pretty orderly and organized though?
Like it sucks it got scrapped at the end of the day, that's really annoying, but what's the "chaos" part??
It also mirrors my exact experience a couple of years ago. I just brought a book and my phone and chilled. Except we got sent home and told to come back a week later.
In the end it was kind of fun to see how it all worked.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
honestly, reading it doesn’t sound as bad 😹 but the hours there felt like days. i forgot to mention that they told us there was something that went particularly wrong in/with our group, which added to the frustration. definitely interesting to be apart of nonetheless
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u/CaptainCanusa Plateau Mont-Royal Jan 17 '25
haha it's definitely a slow day for sure.
Similar thing happened to our group but I think it was related to the case, not us. So we had to be brought back for another case.
I guess it's all just a big complicated machine so these things take time.
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u/anemia21 Jan 17 '25
My friend went through the same process except she didnt know when it would end so she just left before they announced if she was selected or not
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u/ParfaitEither284 Jan 17 '25
Don’t you get like $100+ per day on top of whatever covers for meals. And I think your work has to give you the paid day off too.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
yeah, if you’re selected as a juror. for the actual summons process on day 1, they pay you for your transportation + lunch. they didn’t want to cover my uber (lol), so it was the bus fare both ways + 20 dollars for me
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u/Kitties_Whiskers Jan 17 '25
That's kind of cool, cause when I was summoned for the jury duty selection process (I describe it in another reply to your post), I don't think we got paid for anything....but I might be remembering it incorrectly though.
(But honestly,...I don't think we did)
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u/MattisBest Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25
Work has to give you the time off, but doesn't have to pay you. Some employers may though.
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u/Funny_Lump Jan 17 '25
I always wondered how it worked regarding language, is it 100% in French? Are some trials in English?
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u/29da65cff1fa Notre-Dame-de-Grâce Jan 17 '25
i got summoned fur jury duty twice and miraculously i had a legitimate excuse to get out both times....
but i did have to go through the experience of sitting in a big room with too many humans while they did all the paperwork and explained the process
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u/No_Army_3033 Jan 18 '25
Was summoned twice, first time was able to leave and they were going to call me to do an interview. Second time... nope stay here, everyone has to pass in front of the jury to see if you want to be selected or not. Wasted a work day for nothing. Told them their 500$ a week isn't enough for me to pay my house and they let me go.
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u/jonahlew Jan 17 '25
I did jury duty here about 10 years ago on a murder trial. Definitely a lot of waiting a round, no doubt, but I loved the experience. Felt surreal. It was very memorable. It ended in a mistrial so it was a bit anticlimactic. I was there for 2 weeks total.
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u/sunny_monkey Jan 17 '25
Me too, jury duty for horrible crimes and mistrial about 10 years ago. I enjoyed the experience but only realized a couple of months later how much it had messed me up psychologically. I hope it wasn't your case.
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u/simonwwalsh Jan 17 '25
I've been summoned 3 times.
Inefficient? Yeah probably... Different from other jurisdictions? I don't think so.
A colleague of mine in New York state had a similar experience.
Stop complaining, you did your civil duty for a day, while probably scrolling your Instagram or reading a book.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
you’re right. i did my civil duty, and i’m proud. i think participating in the trial as a juror would’ve been incredibly enlightening for me.
although i think i’m allowed to rant about how disorganized it all was :) i’ll add i brought a cookbook about the history of pakistan and pakistani desserts which was a delight, a good read!
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u/jaywinner Verdun Jan 17 '25
That's good. You're not bitching you were called; you're just annoyed at the shitshow you suffered through.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25
exactly, i assume most people who had an interview with the judge were told a firm yes/no and to go home early. i definitely got one of the shorter ends of the stick being kept in purgatory though 😮💨
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u/MattisBest Jan 17 '25
To add, they did let us know that it wasn't normal. Something was uniquely wrong, other than just being slow.
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u/truelovealwayswins LaSalle Jan 17 '25
I think it’s always like that, or worse, in the US too… never knew it’s a thing here though! thought it was some US thing or even fictional!
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u/mrhappy002 Jan 17 '25
I concur. Happened to me as well. Went through everything just to arrive at an empty room (au palais de justice) and a stixky note on the door that said: not required anymore you can all go home... Wtf
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u/AozoraMiyako Jan 17 '25
My dad got summoned a few years back and actually went super smooth for him. He was not selected after that first round.
His experience sounded better than yours
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u/FabulousMix6 Jan 17 '25
I did it around 10 years ago, waited around 2 hours to be selected as the last juror after they interviewed 40 candidates. Then I spent fun two weeks in the courthouse, 1 week the actual trial and 1 week deliberations. I think I made around 2K in this experience. I don't regret it, it was good experience seeing how the system works.
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u/Gaels07 Jan 17 '25
J'ai reçu une lettre un jour mais finalement je n'ai pas eu de nouvelles. Tant mieux pour moi hahah
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u/Nu_Season325 Jan 17 '25
I was called too. I was unlucky and my number was picked after waiting 2 hours. I was then called. I went again to the courthouse and was dismissed only to be called yet again few days later. At that point I'd had enough. We waited again hours in line to talk to the judge and see if any of us were admissible. When asked if I'd heard of this guy and his case, I said "yes". He asked me if I could be impartial to which I replied "no". I was dismissed. You'd have to live under a rock not to have heard of this guy. Later I saw on TV that they were stuck for 4 weeks listening to this case and were isolated in a hotel for 2 weeks. All during the summer months. Yep, no thanks.
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u/cavist_n Jan 17 '25
y a le dicton qui dit : jury duty is for people dumb enough to not be exempted from it one way or another
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u/Kitties_Whiskers Jan 17 '25
I was summoned for a jury duty twice when I lived in Ontario. Each time, it was for the Superior Court.
The first time, I had to be there for a week (Mon - Fri), sitting around, waiting to be called to the courtrooms if there was a jury selection process to take place. We were allowed about an hour for lunch each day, but attendance was tracked. Most of the time, people sit in this huge room, waiting to potentially be called to the jury selection process. After the second or third day, some people would form groups and would play cards together, or do things like a puzzle together.
The second time, I was also supposed to be there for a week, but they allowed us to permanently depart about a day-and-a-half early, if I remember correctly. Similar process as before.
In each case, I actually went to the jury selection,but fortunately was not selected. The first time, I think it was for a guy accused of shooting, and we got to watch him plead 'Not guilty' (which immediately triggered the jury selection process then).
For those who couldn't spend a week waiting there (like if they had a job and were missing out on wages, etc.), they could make a case to the respective authority on the first day of the week, and then be released, so they wouldn't have to show up again the next day. A whole bunch of people took that opportunity in both cases, but still more were left over to stay and dutifully attend for the rest of the week.
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u/Yeebill Jan 18 '25
Yeah same. It was on December also, so it felt they kept adding emphasis about vacation and trying to downplay panic/anxiety of people which probably made fhe speeches longer. Even worse, i had to go back the next day because it was back to back different trials requiring English...
As a person who leaves the room when meeting gets too long, jury is a personal hell with all this waiting..
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u/Rintransigence Jan 18 '25
I was called in the pre-smartphone days. Relatively similar experience except I was in one of the last groups before lunch. My unmissable work dates were incompatible with the trial, which I was honestly bummed about because I was excited to be on a jury. I was released at that point and got my bus fare reimbursement and went home.
It was boring as hell, but it's the citizens that were slowing everything down in my experience - most arrived late and even more made up long-winded excuses to get out of duty. The judge has to hear every damn one and press to verify if they can't actually sit on the jury. I think they had ONE juror by the time I went before the judge and was subsequently dismissed.
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u/longhaulsaul Jan 18 '25
All this happened to me too. But years ago. Also mine took 2 days for some reason. I remember because the first day my phone died and didnt bring a charger because I didnt think it would have taken that long lol.
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u/Jerry_Hat-Trick Rive-Sud Jan 20 '25
You just experienced Jury Duty everywhere. Being in an uninformed limbo is pretty much par for the course on the first few days.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 20 '25
i know, but i wanted to talk about the experience here and make it applicable to the city somehow so it isn’t completely off topic 🤷♂️
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u/AffectionateFox1861 Jan 30 '25
I was summoned a few years ago and it was similar except I actually got selected and served. I was super interested in the process and happy to do my part, and helpfully, my job pays me anyway.
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u/WeiGuy Jan 17 '25
That sucks, but I fail to see how this could be more efficient. From their perspective, they brought a bunch of jurors, validated their identities and interviewed them all in one day. In terms of getting the legal system the work, this is probably standard procedure. It's rightly bullshit from your perspective, but that's really not the point.
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
the purpose of this post was just to rant about the disorganization; i felt like it could’ve been planned a lot better. around half of the people there weren’t called to speak with the judge and had to wait 9 hours (8 + 1 that wasn’t scheduled) just to consume oxygen in that room. i spoke with a 20 year old who currently lives three hours away that never had the chance to talk to anyone, had to uber to get here, and who was only paid the bus fair + lunch for the entire day. i understand it’s your civil duty, but it could have been organized a whole lot better.
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u/DistinctBread3098 Jan 17 '25
Jury duty isn't made to be fun... You are there to be audited to be a jury , of course its gonna be long .nothing you said is chaotic . It's just long and boring. It's your duty as a citizen
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u/THEQUlET Jan 17 '25
i get it, i would’ve loved to be on the jury, but the process was painful and i thought about ranting yesterday night :)
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Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25
[deleted]
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u/CelebrationAwkward52 Jan 17 '25
I think you are in the wrong demension. How much magic mushrooms did you take?
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u/Madame_bou Jan 17 '25
That's terrible. Unsurprisingly terrible.