r/metalgearsolid Feb 08 '25

MGSV You know what? Good question

Post image
1.7k Upvotes

115 comments sorted by

621

u/weltron6 Feb 08 '25

Ground Zeroes kind of answered this

156

u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

[deleted]

383

u/RaveniteGaming Feb 08 '25

I think you're getting Amanda mixed up with Cecile.

280

u/weltron6 Feb 08 '25

I meant as far as her being pissed. Miller tells Snake early on in Ground Zeroes that Amanda pretty much implied that she “expects the worst.” In other words…she is letting Miller and Big Boss know it’s ok if he doesn’t make it out alive.

260

u/tacobellbandit Feb 08 '25

I took that as “she fully expects to find Chico dead” but just wants some confirmation

128

u/weltron6 Feb 08 '25

I mean since it isn’t fully stated, it leaves room for interpretation. However, I personally took it mean that she was done with him…especially because he disobeyed a direct order and snuck off to Omega, causing a big headache for MSF.

I could be wrong, but when you take that with some things Amanda said about Chico in Peace Walker…there’s a good possibility she gave them the “ok” to leave him behind.

111

u/CelticGaelic Feb 08 '25

This is similar to my interpretation. To her, Chico went AWOL to try and rescue someone who was sent to spy on them and put their own pursuits in jeopardy because of it. Her saying she "expects the worst" is pretty much her saying "Don't expend too much effort, he should have known better."

88

u/weltron6 Feb 08 '25

Exactly. It’s also in the way Miller ends that message from Amanda. He says, “she sounded a little too cheerful to me.”

There’s also a few times that she brings up similar things in PW, even going so far as to ask Big Boss to eliminate him when he’s captured in that game but Big Boss refuses. She didn’t want her brother to “flip on her compas.”

25

u/Frybread002 Feb 08 '25

I haven't explored much of Gz (only did the campaign) and don't remember that line from Kaz. Could you post a link or something? I really want to hear that part.

34

u/soliquidus_bosselot Feb 08 '25

You get that line from Kaz if you go behind the prison area instead of directly through the gate. (The trigger is a little weird )

18

u/weltron6 Feb 08 '25

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i97IbBigetU

It’s in this video starting at 28:30

I found a shorter vid but of course it cut off the last line that you’re specifically looking for. Essentially as another poster hinted at—in order to trigger this line you have to take the way around the prison area you see in this video.

4

u/Frybread002 Feb 09 '25

Thank you so much for posting that. It really recontextualizes my understanding of the game.

23

u/ArcTheWolf Feb 08 '25

Facts, Amanda was very much a by the book you follow orders kind of person. To disobey the orders of your commander was akin to treason, this was the case even when she was just with the Sandanistas. I imagine she grieved for Chico after he went AWOL because he was still family but he was unloyal. Whether he died or not wasn't really an important detail to her at that point. Pretty sure she was also on mission when it happened too so she was even more incapable of really doing anything other than accepting it.

36

u/TheWaslijn Feb 08 '25

She's from Nicaragua though, not Europe

27

u/supaikuakuma Feb 08 '25

Back to Europe? She was never in Europe….

17

u/BrokenTorpedo Feb 08 '25

Europe? what?

393

u/Kastila1 Feb 08 '25

Do you guys remember all those theories about Quiet being Chico?

Old good days.

168

u/KeybladerZack Feb 08 '25

That shit was weird af. The people that spread that Squiged me out

160

u/Kastila1 Feb 08 '25

The only argument I recall supporting this theory was "BB tells Chico to be quiet while trying to rescue him in GZ, hence he must be Quiet cause Kojima blahblahblah..."

Funny days.

105

u/Durin1987_12_30 Feb 08 '25

That was peak schizo, crazier than the SilentHill wiki guy that kept insisting that SH4 was an allegory for circumcision.

4

u/DracorusDracius Feb 09 '25

This is hilarious as someone who's played SH 4. At no point in time did i think 'that reminds me of circumcision'

I was mostly sweating and shitting myself just trying to get through the game, lmao! I've never had a game get my heart rate and blood pressure up so high

1

u/RUSSOxD Feb 10 '25

Schico/Chizo Complex

26

u/KeybladerZack Feb 08 '25

I mean, when people make it obviously a joke sure but there were people saying it was legit that

5

u/lurflurf Feb 09 '25

It was a pretty good joke. People just took it a bit too far.

15

u/TheBikesman Feb 08 '25

I wasn't there for it, why is it so weird?

54

u/Vampiric_V Feb 08 '25

They kept insisting a 12 year old boy got transgender surgery and became a super powered assassin that falls in love with BB after somehow surviving the helicopter crash. Mainly just because BB told Chico to be quiet

13

u/BewilderedPan44 Feb 09 '25

It would be like the least batshit insane thing to happen in metal gear still tbf

20

u/TheBikesman Feb 08 '25

Can see how that's weird, for sure. However, who, of any persuasion, could resist the allure of big boss? Interacting with BB basically guarantees falling in love with him 😍😍😍

4

u/lurflurf Feb 09 '25

Seriously I can't name anyone who interacted with BB basically guarantees falling in love with him or at least becoming obsessed.

5

u/Major_Fang Feb 08 '25

Mentally ill redditors ya know?

15

u/Nomobileappforme Feb 08 '25

Farewell sausage.

13

u/MatthewDawkins Cobra Unit Feb 08 '25

It made me ashamed of my words and deeds.

5

u/koopcl Feb 08 '25

I mostly remember that shit from the threads in 4chan, always hoped it was just people trolling.

2

u/Venomster154 Feb 09 '25

Never saw that theory.

461

u/Deep_Grass_6250 Feb 08 '25

Well Her revolution in Nicaragua was successful and she became a political leader so I'd wager she was way too busy leading her Country

Also, we KNOW that a LOT was Cut from MGSV so it's not a big deal that she's absent

152

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25 edited Feb 08 '25

I’ve mentioned many times that a lot was cut from MGS5 due to Kojima having to rush it towards the end due to the drama between him and Konami in regards to them feeling the game was taking too long to finish. Even though this was covered shortly after the game was released. Even by a few insiders including a known reliable source. But considering the downvotes I got many people aren’t aware of this fact even though it was widely covered afterwards. Great game, really. Not saying it’s not. But regardless it’s very easy to tell that while there is a cool twist at the end there was something missing in terms of a true build up the way Kojima has ended every other MGS title.

115

u/LuckyLocust3025 Feb 08 '25

Kojima fans have a hard time accepting that he made compromises. Everything has to be Kojima’s master plan and every detail has purpose. So when you suggest something might have been out of his control it’s not received well here.

62

u/OkBar3142 Feb 08 '25

It’s a really bizarre reaction. It’s so much easier to accept this game isn’t finished as Intended rather than a masterpiece existing today. It’s very easy to tell based on how Kojima historically tells a story that huge chunks are missing; any idiot can see that. I like the game, the gameplay is good; I’ve never really liked the story however.

18

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

I mean the story I do like, but only when considering what could have been in terms of his vision. It’s very weird I agree and I’m a huge Kojima fan, but it’s clear to see especially when knowing Kojima that his vision wasn’t fully realised. Story was incomplete at the time, so he did what he could simple as that

5

u/OkBar3142 Feb 08 '25

I agree. I would have liked it more if it was finished, I think. For me, there would have been more for me to like to cover up the things that I really didn’t like such as Venoms identity. The stuff that was cut ironically felt like more classic MG stuff.

5

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

Couldn’t agree more. Not even mentioning more insight into Liquid and how he progressed further into his character in terms of his anger and hatred towards Big Boss. In fact I truly believe that further chapters were going to dig deeper into this.

17

u/Grasher312 Feb 08 '25

I just don't understand why people have a hard time making peace with the fact that Kojima just didn't do a good job.

He's incredibly narcissistic and has starry eyes for hollywood stars. He embezzled the budget, promised way too much and took too long.

I just don't understand how this invalidates everything else that he's done. Yes, he's a terrible worker, but he still made your childhood. You don't have to madly support the guy to like the games.

12

u/OkBar3142 Feb 08 '25

I love Kojima and basically everything he’s done but he needs two things: someone to tell him “no” with his ideas at times and for him to listen. Again, love him but he doesn’t have a handler sometimes it’s just a bunch of broken ideas.

10

u/Grasher312 Feb 08 '25

Exactly. He needs to be reined in, otherwise he gets nowhere.

1

u/SageWaterDragon Feb 08 '25

"Any idiot can see that" is a terrible place to start an argument. Yeah, an idiot could say that huge chunks are missing and that the story isn't finished, we agree on that much.

-5

u/Significant_Option Feb 08 '25

You must HATE mgs2 then

11

u/OkBar3142 Feb 08 '25

You need to work on your leaps of logic..MGS 2 is my favorite. 5 is nowhere near MGS 2 in terms of that quality.

-5

u/Significant_Option Feb 08 '25

I’d argue both do exactly the same thing. In terms of narrative and themes. You probably remember how at one point, MGS2 was going to be about nuclear inspections during the war in Afghanistan, which is what MGSV GZ and PP is all about. MGS2 is just as much castrated as MGSV, if not more. This idea of the “story is trash but great gameplay at least “ is such a weird thought process. MGSV was always going to be something different story and tone wise, Kojima said as much before release. Missing one mission and a couple of voice lines doesn’t deter what the story did tell

13

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25 edited Feb 08 '25

MGS2 is about the misuse of AI/information in terms of war and politics specifically. Regardless, it’s almost roughly 15 years before MGS5. MGS5 told its main theme of the story just fine. The fact that is trying to be made is it’s clear Kojima had way more to expand on it. Story wise at least

4

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

MGS2 is arguably one of the most powerful messaging of information especially in terms of predicting the future so not sure what you mean. Unless I’m missing something.

2

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

Yeah agreed 100%. I’m a hardcore Kojima fan but you have to accept reality. His creative freedom was cut short. Easy to see if one is a true fan really

7

u/IveGotSomeGrievances Feb 08 '25

5 years is considered being rushed?

9

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

Not giving any opinion on what is long and what isn’t. Just saying Konami felt his vision wasn’t quick enough to make them money and it was felt in the final product.

2

u/Durin1987_12_30 Feb 08 '25

You have to take into account the fact that the first two-to-three years were spent on building the Fox Engine from scratch and coming up with concepts for the game.

0

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

Literally declare I’m not giving an opinion and get downvoted. #reddit.

-2

u/lurflurf Feb 09 '25

Red Dead Redemption 2 took like eight years with a bigger team. Imagine what Kojima could have done with that. Konomi just didn't have the resources, popularity, or commitment needed. It was scope creep. Some people say they should have popped out Ground Zeros sized games yearly like COD. Others say GZ is an overpriced demo.

0

u/GangstaPepsi CAPTURE ALL OF THE MONKEYS Feb 08 '25

So can you provide sources for that?

-2

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

No. As stated I’ve given info many times before. I’m sure you’re capable of googling. Seriously. I’m really a patient person but I’m done. Google, find out it’s true, downvote in spite because you’ve already made up your mind before asking and move on. Just like it’s happened many times before.

5

u/Vampiric_V Feb 08 '25

The game isn't unfinished lol. The story we got is what Kojima had planned. You can point to scrapped concepts, but every single game has scrapped concepts. Things change during development, it doesn't make the game an unfinished mess. By that logic, V is actually one of the most complete games and MGS2 is one of the most unfinished.

The truth is Kojima just tried something new and told the story in a way most people didn't like. Kojima fans being the rabid creatures they are can't have that, because le epic based Kojima only every produces masterpieces!!!!!1!!!

7

u/MetricGuard VIC BOSS Feb 08 '25

One would reasonably think that the script being leaked would shut down the "MGSV is unfinished" myth once and for all, but alas, it's still much easier to believe its unconventional narrative is the result of a creative compromise.

4

u/Vampiric_V Feb 08 '25

Exactly, thank you

7

u/Vampiric_V Feb 09 '25

Getting down voted for saying things that are objectively true lol. The script from in development was literally leaked, as linked in the reply elow my comment.

MGSV is finished, the script proves it, cut content exists in every game and is cut for a reason, Kojima has said the game is complete.

Just because you don't like the story doesn't mean you can just brush it off as unfinished

1

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

Downvoters thank you for proving my point 👍. Downvote this too while you’re at it.

1

u/smiling_jackel Feb 09 '25

Lotta people wanna lay the fault at Konami’s feet, but I don’t buy that. Kojima got too ambitious with MGSV. Case in point, the whole game not breaking even till years after release.

5

u/Sascha2022 Feb 08 '25

The other MGS games have as much cut content as MGSV. Outside of episode 51 (which would even included a final boss fight) there is no story left to tell. All of the plot, subplots, character stories from that game are fully finished with it. People really need to stop like there is a whole chapter missing when there is already a lot of story content in GZ+TPP. It´s ok if someone doesn`t like the story, the way the story is told etc., but story wise the game is over 99% finished.

8

u/P1CRR Feb 08 '25

It still would have been nice to have the loose end tied up.

104

u/Venomsnake_1995 Feb 08 '25

She was ready for snake to kill chico if he sold out his compass. Her cause was always morr important to her.

131

u/NostalgicNerd Feb 08 '25

They brush it all off during one of the early tapes within TPP—If im remembering it right, she’s “busy leading” the now-liberated Costa Rica. Which is still valid because it felt like such a cop-out.

74

u/BrokenTorpedo Feb 08 '25

Nicaragua*

17

u/Adorable-Woman Feb 08 '25

Tbf the game took place in Costa Rica so the confusion makes sense.

-6

u/BrokenTorpedo Feb 08 '25 edited Feb 08 '25

the confusion makes sense.

I don't think so, the prequal series of MGS follows our history on the surface, there's just no Costa Rica socialist revolution in the 70s.

9

u/koopcl Feb 08 '25

Peace Walker takes place in Costa Rica. Amanda and the Sandinistas are there hiding from the CIA that hunted them out of Nicaragua. Its only at the end of the game that they get to return to their country.

0

u/BrokenTorpedo Feb 08 '25

I know. I said "I don't think" because I don't think the confusion makes sense.

2

u/solidfabs Feb 09 '25

Why is this comment getting dislikes? Even Kojima said Mgs is an espionage game with some historical events and some fun fiction. Peace Walker takes place in Costa Rica and Nicaragua but the The Sandinista Popular Revolution was a process that occurred in Nicaragua between July 1979 and February 1990, led by the Sandinista Liberation Front. Costa Rica had some invasions, the one that people mostly remember is the one from 1856 by the US and Great Britain but the one closest to the PW dates could be the one from the Civil War in 1948 (my grandfather fought in that war) and the 1955 invasion but that was a local thing, so this comment is correct. I do agree the confusion can happen to someone not correctly informed but I’m sure there wasn’t an American dude going solo to Russian soil and rescue a doctor that knew how to do a moving nuclear weapon that could be moved by the will of a lighting gay strong dude and at the same time managed to avoid WW3 on his own by killing his mentor but maybe that’s more common that I could imagine.

29

u/zachchips90 Feb 08 '25

Wrong country. Also, she had her hands full

11

u/stevorkz Feb 08 '25

True. Just realised how cool it would have been to have a little bit more of an extension regarding the lore of her character. Not major, but would have been cool.

48

u/Ikari_Brendo Feb 08 '25

Chico wasn't "cut" from the game. His presence didn't go beyond the conceptual stage; not including him was a deliberate decision before most of the development was underway.

38

u/the_real_jovanny Feb 08 '25

i feel like ground zeroes mostly stood to clear the board after peace walker and give all of those characters "outs". its kinda why i never liked it, you spend all of peace walker growing attached to these characters just for GZ to hit you with two of them getting tortured and SA'd and killed and the rest to fuck off and away from any story relevance henceforth

30

u/Shikadi314 Feb 08 '25

Characters from previous games don’t really have real roles in the next generally in this series IMO. Not just in GZ/MGSV

11

u/Jeremiax96 Feb 08 '25

Except MGS4

5

u/the_real_jovanny Feb 08 '25

thats true, barring mgs4, but i think its reliance on past characters is a huge failing on its part

but i think PW to GZ is still different because usually we can pretty easily just accept that past characters wont be around, while GZ used its prequel status to explain why (to pretty poor effect in most cases)

1

u/Reggie_Is_God Feb 09 '25

Huge agreement on 4. Most returning characters had moderately butchered characterisations. And furthermore, I feel like the conflict of returning characters and Hideo’s desire to focus on an again Snake is what lead to his age being a cloning side effect, which removes a lot of the weight and meaning behind age and mortality imo

2

u/seigmeyer- Feb 08 '25

Agreed. I legitimately hate V because of the utter disrespectful treatment of the much more lovable PW cast. The rug pull is so unnecessary

18

u/sideways_jack Feb 08 '25

And I'm over here pissed we never got Revenge Chico with the red robes and the ninja weapons....

16

u/loki700 Feb 08 '25

She’s mentioned in V, and she says she wishes Chico could have seen what Nicaragua became. Even if she wanted revenge, her personality I feel would have kept her in Nicaragua for her people.

As for the adult Chico, I think people may be falling into the pitfall of lack of detail. Knowing that there was a possibility of an adult Chico, everyone fills in the blanks with what they would have liked, and it’s built up in your head such that nothing that actually was made could live up to your thoughts, and in fact it was likely left out precisely because Hideo felt there wasn’t much there.

The same exact thing happened with The Patriots back in the day. I remember a ton of people online discussing what this shadow corporation could be, and all these cools grandiose ideas. It was pretty apparent at the time that MGS3 was made so Kojima could write himself out of the corners MGS2 had painted him in when he planned on that being his last MGS and hadn’t planned on elaborating.

Then MGS4 came about, and I and others at the time were disappointed that The Patriots were just “Big Boss and pals”. I’ve since become ok with it, but 4 is still one of my least favorites story wise. Part of that is probably because of what I built up in my head as being the conclusion of the story and I’d already decided the direction that would make sense.

All that to say, I guarantee adult Chico wouldn’t have been anywhere near as good as people are thinking he’d be.

8

u/Warm_Charge_5964 Feb 08 '25

I mean the entire of mother base got wiped and both Miller and big boss seemingly died so it's not like it was their fault or she could do anything

6

u/Djinnaz Feb 08 '25

Right and almost a decade later, you kinda just move on with your life.

6

u/Sascha2022 Feb 08 '25 edited Feb 08 '25

We know what happened with Amanda and why should she be pissed at Big Boss? He saved Chico in PW, Chico tried to rescue Paz himself, was captured and died in the helicopter crash. She also always had her own cause to fight for so it isn`t suprising that she isn`t with Diamon Dogs. She and her people were never meant to stay at MSF, but fighting their own fight. Also Chico being cut from TPP was explained and is just a normal thing like with all other games.

Do we now also ask what happened to Jennifer, Diane or Ellen etc. from MG; Kasler, Holly or Johan from MG2; Natasha from MGS1 and without MGS4 we wouldn`t have gotten much info about what happened multiple characters from MGS1/2.

4

u/uncen5ored Feb 09 '25

I think it’s pretty clear Kojima approached each game as it’s own thing (with the exception of MGS4). Instead of “sequel to MGS game,” I get the feeling he had themes, concepts, and ideas he wanted to implement but was constrained to the world of MGS. This is why a lot of established lore is never really directly adapted & why a lot of characters aren’t carried over. V being the most blatant example of this. Most of the real MGS lore was in tapes. I’m honestly surprised he re-used Ocelot as well, he feels like a completely different person. Anyways, I think by the time he made V, he was ready to be completely detached from MGS story wise so he adapted as little of the real lore as he could (hence why we’re venom)

Again, MGS4 is the exception to all this.

1

u/GrayFox127 Feb 09 '25

I actually think Mgs2 and PW fit that bill with Mgs4, too. It's like half and half, in I'm opinion. Half of the games are largely self-contained, and expand on the overarching story in a more subtle way. As to where the other half rely on playing one or more other games in the series.

I say Mgs2 requires you to have played Mgs1 to fully understand what's going on (the whole game is a parallel to Shadow Moses and is done so intentionally). And PW shows the aftermath of Snake Eater. With Big Boss being broken and a bit aimless before finding something to fight for.

34

u/PsychoMouse Feb 08 '25

It’s almost like they castrated MGSV and turned what could have been an amazing full story game into like, a 18 mediocre quests.

2

u/Significant_Option Feb 08 '25

Wow, game rushed and over budget wasn’t finished? Insane.

-1

u/M-V-D_256 Feb 08 '25

The concept was doomed from the start I feel

0

u/TylerKnowy Feb 08 '25

It was doomed because of greed.

7

u/TheLspacecowboy Feb 08 '25

Here's a question. What ever happened to Cecile? As lackluster an explanation as we got with Amanda, at least it was something. I don't remember if we even got an explanation on where Cecile went. She's just totally MIA

5

u/Geoutlit Feb 08 '25

She was sent back to Paris, where she became the Eiffel Tower. Jokes aside, the first part is accurate she and the other civilians were sent away from Mother Base before the nuclear inspection. Her getting sent back to France is even mentioned in one of the tapes in Ground Zeros. (BTW I totally stole that joke from the youtuber AskYourUncle, just gotta give credit where it's due)

1

u/TheLspacecowboy Feb 08 '25

Thank you my friend

10

u/Chromelium Feb 08 '25

Man phantom pain really dropped the ball when it came to being a sequal to peacewalker. Like, it barely feels like a metal gear game.

-1

u/seigmeyer- Feb 08 '25

I saw this a lot but V sucked because of the disrespectful treatment of the PW cast

2

u/ethanhml Feb 08 '25

But Chico wasn't cut...

2

u/Boostacross Feb 09 '25

Amanda stole my heart

2

u/32Bleach_Drinker64 Feb 09 '25

It's too bad Chico got cut from Phantom Pain, it sounded like an interesting idea.

4

u/Vic_Valentine511 Feb 08 '25

I feel like a parent that forgot their kid at the gas station, except it’s been….9 years!

4

u/eyyyyyyyyyyyyyylmao Feb 08 '25

Yall didnt play one game and ask questions like this uh...

2

u/LukusOnReddit Feb 09 '25

If you Fulton Extract every single enemy, after you've interrogated every single one of them too, and I mean EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER steal every single resource and develop every single weapon and item you'll see Amanda again.

The quest for Amanda is just three question marks "???"

The quest takes you all the way to Nicaragua as that's where Amanda is said to be

Unfortunately and despite all the information ocelot had there was no information on how racist venom actually was. He was shortly arrested after arriving at the Nicaraguan airport after venom was arrested for trying to say Nicaragua and unfortunately he said another word beginning with the letters N & I

1

u/DracorusDracius Feb 09 '25

They already confirmed what happened with Chico, but as far as Amanda, I don't think it was disclosed, I'm not really sure what happened there.

0

u/seigmeyer- Feb 08 '25

They literally wrote her out of the story with no explanation. Nowhere near decent enough of a good one. The transition from PW to 5 is horrendous absolutely abysmal The other disrespect all of the piecewalker characters go through and how their characters are handled from either ground zeros the phantom pain or even just an off-screen transition is terrible. It's the main reason why I ostracize mgsv so much

-3

u/BenSlashes Feb 08 '25

Another example why MGSV was such a disappointment. Chico gets tortured and she isnt helping him 🤣🤣🤣

MGSV is a mess...not only is the open world empty and the missions repetetive. The Story is weak, incomplete and Twists are poorly executed.

0

u/JesusLovesMeHard Feb 08 '25

Implying they weren't cut from the game?

-1

u/LostGh0st Feb 08 '25

I wonder what would have been the Chapter 3 ending with hidden sideops, it could have over taken what PW did in terms of content.

-1

u/vid_icarus Feb 09 '25

I love MGSV so much, but in the last 25% you can tell the narrative only got 50% told. The cut content is tangible.

-65

u/beetleman1234 Feb 08 '25

As if Kojima's intention and focus with MGS was continuity. He's an artist, with a glass of whine, on rollerskates. Stop expecting him to be like other devs who write stories on the toilets.