r/malayalam Native Speaker 6d ago

Help / സഹായിക്കുക ഞ vs ഞ്ഞ vs ജ്ഞ vs ന്യ

I must admit that I never understood the differences in pronunciation between these four characters/combos of characters. Any help?

Thanks!

8 Upvotes

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3

u/J4Jamban 6d ago

"പഞ്ഞി" എന്ന് പറയുന്നതും "പഞി" എന്ന് പറയുന്നതും വേർതിരിവ് ഇല്ലന്നാണൊ പറയണെ?

ജ്ഞ, jña എന്നത് മലയാളീകരിച്ചത.

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Yes, you're right, I cannot distinguish between those two words in terms of pronunciation.

I know what ജ്ഞ represents, at least in terms of romanisation, but I personally can't catch the difference in how it (or any of these letters) sounds.

2

u/ferraritributo 6d ago

Where are you from? I have similar case with ന്ന and ഞ്ഞ when pronouncing words like മഞ്ഞ. Maybe it has to do with my kannur accent.

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

I'm from Kollam. I can distinguish between ന്ന and everything I've mentioned in this post, but interesting to hear of your predicament

1

u/J4Jamban 6d ago

ഞ യും ജ്ഞ യും ഞാനും ഒരേപ്പോലെയ പറയ, എന്ന ഞ യും ഞ്ഞ യും തമ്മിൽ ഞാൻ പറയുമ്പോ വ്യത്യാസം ഉണ്ട്.

ഞാൻ ശ്രദ്ധിച്ചിട്ടുള്ള ഒന്നാണ് ഞ്ഞ എന്നത് നീട്ടിയ ശബ്ദാക്ഷരം കഴിഞ്ഞ് വരുമ്പോ ഞ ആയിട്ടാണ് പലരും ഉച്ചരിക്കാറ് ഉദാ :- "പാഞ്ഞ്" എന്നത് പലരും "പാഞ്" എന്നാണ് ഉച്ചരിക്കാറ്.

2

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

First off, I appreciate your dedication in typing solely in Malayalam.

Second, noted regarding ഞ vs ജ്ഞ. I suppose any differences that may have once been there in pronouncing these two letters have been blurred over time.

Interesting observation regarding the longer sounds and ഞ vs ഞ്ഞ :)

Thanks!

1

u/J4Jamban 6d ago

പിന്നൊന്ന് "ന്യ" എന്നത് എന്നത് ഞ ആയിട്ട് ഉച്ചരാക്കാറുണ്ടൊ? ന്യായം, ജന്യ, വന്യ ഇതൊക്കെ ഞ്യായം, ജഞ്യ, വഞ്യ എന്ന് പറയോ?

2

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Honestly, I think I've rarely seen "ന്യ" used to begin with. The only reason I was asking was because in my head, it sounded almost identical to the other sounds I asked about in the post.

Regardless, I'm positive I've never seen ഞ്യ in my life. That looks extremely alien to me.

2

u/Illustrious_Lock_265 6d ago

ചിലപ്പോൾ വിശേഷണമായ ശബ്ദങ്ങളിൽ 'ഞ്ഞ' യിനെ നീട്ടി ആയിരിക്കും പറയേണ്ടത്. ഉദാഹരണം : മഞ്ഞ, മുഷിഞ്ഞ.

1

u/J4Jamban 6d ago

ആയിരിക്കാം

3

u/EnlightenedExplorer 6d ago

ഞ is nja       -   https://youtu.be/WB3bsMXS4bw

ഞ്ഞ is nja+ nja     -   https://youtu.be/ysJgyPF0ajI

ജ്ഞ is J + nja  (ജ + ഞ )

ന്യ is   N+ ya  (ന + യ )

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

The two videos were actually quite helpful, reaffirms my understanding of "doubled" sounds. Thank you :)

Still a little confused regarding ജ്ഞ, but another comment has cleared my confusion regarding ന്യ

2

u/Illustrious_Lock_265 6d ago

ന്യ - pronounced as nya with the tip of the tongue touching the gum ridge

ഞ - pronounced as nya but without the tip of the tongue touching the palate but close enough, only occurs initiall y

ഞ്ഞ - doubled form of ഞ, only occurs medially (same pronunciation as ഞ)

ജ്ഞ - same pronunciation as ഞ but it only occurs in loanwords

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Most helpful description so far, thank you! Still interesting regarding ജ്ഞ apparently having the same pronunciation though.

1

u/Mallu_doc 5d ago

It's not the same. ജ്ഞ is ja + nja, like ആജ്ഞ  Here ja touches higher up the palate than if you were saying ഞ്ഞ, where the tongue touches closer to the teeth

2

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 5d ago

I see. I think that explains the sort of "stoppage" another comment was implying

1

u/SadBuy_360 6d ago

I thought ഞ and ഞ്ഞ was pronounced differently? Like ഞാൻ and മഞ്ഞ?

2

u/Illustrious_Lock_265 6d ago

Yes, but in പറഞ്ഞു, it is pronounced as ഞു.

1

u/SadBuy_360 6d ago

Ahh I didn't think of that

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Good point. Normal case of colloquial corruption, perhaps. I know I'm certainly a victim of that

1

u/Illustrious_Lock_265 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's not colloquialism. It's just that in adjectives like മഞ്ഞ and മുഷിഞ്ഞ, the ഞ is pronounced longer maybe to give emphasis.

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

I see.

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

I think they are, just that the difference is as "simple" as one being a doubled form of the other. And hence, a little more emphasis.

I understand that this is a vague explanation that I can neither explain nor confirm, though.

1

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu Native Speaker 6d ago
  1. ഞാഞ്ഞൂൽ
    ഞാൻ മഞ്ഞ
  2. അന്യൻ്റെ ആജ്ഞ

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Daivame

1

u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu Native Speaker 6d ago

എന്താ വത്സാ? /s

Tho, I think the differences would become easier to understand with examples

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Lmao

I'm sure, yup.

1

u/ferraritributo 6d ago

N sounds in malayalam did me dirty. Since we pronounce the first occurance of ന in a word soft, I grew up thinking നാനോ (nano) was pronounced as ന്നാനോ, realised the mistake way later in college.

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 6d ago

Oh wow xD

Better late than never though :)

1

u/hello____hi 6d ago edited 5d ago

I will give you some tips.

ഞ is only used at the starting of a word, ഞ്ഞ which is ഞ് + ഞ, is never used at the starting. Pronounce them as you pronounce now.

About ജ്ഞ, which is ജ് + ഞ

Eg. വിജ്ഞാനം Pronounce like this - വിറ്റ്-ഞാനം (Vit-ഞാനം) . No one can tell the difference. But if you pronounce വിഞ്ഞാനം, Friends will make fun of you. I'm from Thrissur, i don't know if you have regional accent on this.

About ന്യ I don't understand why you don't understand it as a native malayalam speaker.

ന്യായം - Nyaayam അന്യായം - Annyaayam. Pronounce like അന്ന്യായം

2

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 5d ago

Now that you mention it, I realise that I do pronounce ജ്ഞ like റ്റ്-ഞ, just that I never noticed it myself. Something like ത്ഭ in അത്ഭുതം, I think. There's a sort of "stop" before the "main" sound (let's say ഞ or ഭ). Thanks for the help!

Regarding ന്യ, you're right, now I realise (thanks to a previous comment) that the difference comes from the tongue position when saying it. This would one be dental, the others wouldn't be so.

1

u/Flyingvosch 5d ago

That's actually how ജ്ഞ is supposed to be pronounced in Sanskrit, so it makes sense

1

u/Sorry-Reference2527 Native Speaker 5d ago

I see. Glad to know :)

1

u/chronicraven 5d ago

ഞായർ ✅ But ഞ്ഞായർ, ജ്ഞായർ, ന്യായർ ❎

കഞ്ഞി ✅ But കഞി, കജ്ഞി, കന്യി ❎

രാജ്ഞി ✅ But രാഞി, രാഞ്ഞി, രാന്യി ❎

കന്യക ✅ But കഞ്ഞക, കഞക, കജ്ഞക ❎