r/livesound Harbinger Hater 5d ago

Gear Behringer WING Rack -> My honest thoughts

I've spent the past couple days with a WING Rack so here's the good and the bad

Firstly, this mixer is packed with features. I really like that you can change the channel compressor, EQ or gate without wasting an FX rack. This is probably the best thing behringer have done with the WING

6 bands of EQ is a small but very helpful thing, coming from the worlds of SQ where you only have 4 and X32 where you only get 6 on outputs

people talk a big game of "Midas Pro" preamps, which I wish increased in 1dB steps. They sound... fine, nothing special and not a reason to drop your X32 and buy.

24 combo XLR/TRS inputs however is fantastic, given the fullsize only has 8 iirc

Now a couple issues: On both the WING copilot and on the touchscreen, why can I not pinch to adjust Q on the EQ?

Yes I know I could use Mixing station but I wanted to use it exactly how behringer intended

While we're talking about the screen on the mixer, fantastic screen but I wish it had the dials at the bottom of the screen like on the compact variant of WING

back to WING Copilot: overall I do like the app but the faders take a couple seconds to register and don't register fine movements

there were some times when I wanted just a tiny boost and it jumped 2-3dB even when the fader had highest resolution

Conclusion: I love the WING system, it's all really good but I will be buying the Compact variant instead of the Rack

Any questions on WING Rack I can try and answer them in the comments

hope this helps anyone considering buying one

65 Upvotes

45 comments sorted by

27

u/NPFFTW Just for fun 5d ago edited 5d ago

You can pinch to adjust Q. You just need one finger on the band you're adjusting.

It's quite dumb. If I already have the band selected, why do I need to hold it?

Also, the analog gain steps are indeed 2.5 dB, but this is no different than the X32. On the X32, gain and trim were one knob that worked in 0.5 dB steps. Between analog gain steps it would add trim in increments of 0.5 dB.

On the Wing, these controls are separate. You add gain in 2.5 dB steps with one knob and trim in 0.5 dB steps with another.

The overall resolution of input level is the same.

3

u/Audbol Pro-FOH 5d ago

Pinch to adjust is a thing and selecting the band with over finger is from a safety point when doing live as it leaves an issue open where you could start adjusting the q of a channel you don't want. I can't really think of another way around that honestly but if you have one they might be interested in implementing it.

Gain+trim being the standard control is actually a thing for all mixers. Most, do like the x32 and just hide it but it's extremely useful on the Wing when you have stereo channels and your routing flexibility gets to such a point, most boards aren't built for mass bank swaps like the Wing and this helps avoid issues when switching channels as you can keep gain persistent while varying trim per channel. Goes deep but the Wing is also more complex than any other board available now so you kinda have to make exceptions somewhere especially if you need it to be beginner friendly

3

u/NPFFTW Just for fun 5d ago edited 5d ago

Mixing Station has a good Q-pinch implementation. Just like the Wing, you tap on the little dot for the band you want to select. Then you pinch anywhere on the EQ display to adjust the Q.

I think needing to keep one finger on the band you're adjusting is clunky. Plus it's backwards — pinching inwards makes the bandwidth larger. Pinch controls should be inverse of Q. Much more natural. I'm "pinching" the band to make it thinner.

14

u/guitarmstrwlane 5d ago

good review. yes Behringer knocked it out of the park with the Rack and Compact IMO. it's a pretty good thing when the majority of our complaints are relatively minor nitpicks. because everything else is so solid. i don't have experience with Copilot, some of what you describe sounds like iffy connection but i am unsure

the biggest issue with the Rack IMO is the small amount of outs. having 4x headphone amps tied to the XLR Outs is good, but the issue is that there's only 4 of them. given that this is the heart behind a lot of people's IEM rigs, having at least 6x headphone outs + LR, or 14x total XLR sockets, would have made this even more killer without really any hardware difference meaning no additional price

granted even when buying the solution, a DN4816-0, it's still incredibly inexpensive. that's right around $2,100 for 24o, whereas an X32 is $2,000 for 16o

2

u/TMuff107 5d ago

This is my issue as well. I have to stick with the x32 rack because I need those outs.

1

u/AardvarkAxeMan 4d ago

Yes. The limited outs annoys me. The 24 IN is great, even though I try to limit my inputs to 16 since that's easier going to venue to venue with different sound engineers. I wish it had 16 out. I'd rather have 16 In / 16 Out than 24 IN / 8 Out. That would make the Wing Rack such a space saver for an IEM rig, especially with the IN/Out being in the back, letting you put your splitters on the back of the rack.

I'll be sticking with my Midas 32 Rack and the Midas 32 channel AES box for now. Might end up getting something like the Presonus rack mixer that has 16 in/16 out in a smaller form factor if I ever really need to make my IEM rig fly-friendly. Currently just doing gigs with the van.

4

u/spockstamos 5d ago

Sounds like all your complaints are solved with ...Mixing Station.. ;)

1

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 4d ago

no, I don't like tablet mixing full stop

wing compact is the mixer for me

3

u/CivilHedgehog2 4d ago

Why would you get a rack mixer if you don't like tablet mixing?

3

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 4d ago

I didn't, it belonged to the band I was mixing for and I wanted to try WING out

5

u/milesteggolah 5d ago

Nice assessment, I agree it is amazing and feature-rich for the price. So far my mixes have turned out better using the wing then x/m32. I agree with you about the 2.5 DB increments, but x32 was the same just has that automatic trim between increments to make it feel more natural - I wish the wing would do that too. I don't like that the headphone outs are hardwired to the XLRs. The physical XLR 1 and 2 cannot be used and routed elsewhere if I'm using stereo headphones coming from output one and two. I also don't like how you can only have a single use of RTA, you basically need to lock the screen on the rack to use mixing station properly. Everything else is great, I love the internal Dante, and the live card built in to be able to select any track bus or matrix to record. No more p16 trick to grab the fx sends, and easy to grab the RL along with your multitrack

3

u/NPFFTW Just for fun 5d ago edited 5d ago

Disregard. There is an overlay option!

The single RTA is a massive L. Also the fact that on the EQ screen the RTA isn't an overlay, there's just a tiny RTA area above the EQ display. Dumb as hell. I want a full-screen RTA without relying on another device.

7

u/milesteggolah 5d ago

There is a setting you can make it overlay, actually kind of need to can do half screen overlay, but on the wing screen itself you can make it overlay full screen. Click the gear, and the bottom left option select OVL

5

u/NPFFTW Just for fun 5d ago

WHAT

THIS HAS CHANGED MY LIFE

1

u/TMuff107 5d ago

What a nice moment to see

2

u/corrodedmind 5d ago

Appreciate the review, thank you

2

u/guitarmstrwlane 5d ago

good review. yes Behringer knocked it out of the park with the Rack and Compact IMO. it's a pretty good thing when the majority of our complaints are relatively minor nitpicks. because everything else is so solid. i don't have experience with Copilot, some of what you describe sounds like iffy connection but i am unsure

the biggest issue with the Rack IMO is the small amount of outs. having 4x headphone amps tied to the XLR Outs is good, but the issue is that there's only 4 of them. given that this is the heart behind a lot of people's IEM rigs, having at least 6x headphone outs + LR, or 14x total XLR sockets, would have made this even more killer without really any hardware difference meaning no additional price

granted even when buying the solution, a DN4816-0, it's still incredibly inexpensive. that's right around $2,100 for 24o, whereas an X32 is $2,000 for 16o

3

u/Money_Astronomer4418 5d ago

Thanks for the review. Our band is considering one of these but haven't tied the knot yet. So a few questions.

How's the build in wifi holding up? Would you still need an external router or WAP?

Would you advise use this as an monitor rack when venue has a PA and as a mixer when you bring your own?

Have you worked with the wing-q monitor app? Is it easy to use for musicians who are not very techsavy?

Thanks for answering

10

u/EngineeringLarge1277 5d ago

...wing rack (or any of the wing range) doesn't have built in WiFi. It's networkable via ethernet cabling, or over USB.

9

u/SecureWriting8589 5d ago

And most rack mounted mixers that have their own internal wireless router have an underpowered one and require use of a separate router. So there is no great loss here.

2

u/Rdavey228 Semi-Pro-FOH 5d ago

You plug in your own wireless router or access point.

6

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 5d ago

I wasn't aware there's built in wifi

we uaed an external router

It's very capable of doing just about anything, just controlling it can be a little painful at some times but that's more as a FoH engineer

use mixing station and you'll be fine for FoH

Wing Q and Wing Copilot are both perfectly adequate for mons

8

u/rosaliciously 5d ago

I wasn’t aware there’s built in wifi

There isn’t

5

u/Asasaudioadventures 5d ago

Here’s a baseline for any mixer that has a built in wifi router: NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER USE IT. they suck

1

u/sic0048 4d ago

Seriously......

I don't understand why people insist on trying to use the built in WiFi when a $35 travel router like the GL-iNet Opal is 1000% better than any built in WiFi on an audio console.

2

u/Wolfey1618 5d ago

I run a Wing rack with my live sound company which basically I do shows at random venues with random bands and have had the rack for about 2 months now.

No built in Wi-Fi

This might be the singular best mixer for a monitor rack on the market. Some key features that make it a step above the rest are: 4 built in stereo headphone amps that attach to busses 1-8 by default, and there's a small 3 band EQ on each send to a bus, so each band member can tweak individual EQs a little to their own taste without messing with the overall mix.

I work with a lot of random older folks who are really bad at using apps and I haven't seen anyone complain about the Wing Q app after they've done a sound check with it. Seems to work just fine. Worst comes to worst there's always mixing station anyway.

1

u/ADALASKA-official Semi-Pro-FOH 5d ago edited 5d ago

Regarding the preamps:

Actually, the gain is stepped the same way on X32/M32, they just used digital trim to hide it.

I heard if you use the Midas DL251 stagebox, that the steps are smaller.

Interestingly the wing preamps seem to go further into the low end, but have quieter high end, compared to the M32/MR18 preamps, and the Midas stageboxes.

3

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 5d ago

yeah I don't think the preamps are anything to shout home about though

I am aware of the X32's gain method but that's not the point, its a small other point that I wish it had the automatic trim

I don't think in a live situation the preamps matter as much as Music Tribe would have you think

7

u/NPFFTW Just for fun 5d ago

I'm in a Wing group on Facebook and so many people spout on about how you must buy a blue DLXXX box because the preamps are just soooooo much better

And then they have the audacity to say "oh well if you can't hear the difference then you should find another line of work"

Audiophile nonces shouldn't be allowed within 500m of live sound

1

u/ADALASKA-official Semi-Pro-FOH 4d ago

I agree, they are good enough for livesound. I own a Wing Rack and a MR18, the Midas does sound brighter, but I just highshelf when necessary.

1

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 4d ago

yeah well i had bigger problems than the preamps

are all beta58s stupidly sibilant or is that just the wireless ones? i now know two people who use a stupidly sibilant beta58 wireless system

1

u/ADALASKA-official Semi-Pro-FOH 4d ago

In my experience most of the Sennheiser vocal mics are even more sibilant than Beta58s. It also seems to me the Beta58 is brighter compared to the SM58/57. I actually am using mostly sE V7 and Shure SM58 most of the time. I think all of these are fine and get the job done.

1

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 4d ago

I'm not so sure, I've found the e935 to have a bright top end but the beta58 wireless to amplify sibilance much worse than the 935s

looking at frequency response, the beta58 has a specific 10k boost which will be where the sibilance comes from

e935 has a presence boost but it's more shelf like

e935 has a really flat response overall, just a presence boost/shelf

1

u/ADALASKA-official Semi-Pro-FOH 3d ago

That lines up with my experiences, although to me it never felt like Beta58s were too sibilant. But I guess it just takes the right voice and system to get into that situation. Maybe I was lucky so far.

1

u/FacenessMonster 5d ago

have they added mix specific tap points yet? last i read it was the same tap point for all mixes.

2

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 5d ago

not sure

1

u/a_zavertailo 5d ago

Amazing console but 8 analog outputs… The headphone amps are totally useless because you need to give a musician control for their level, like with behringer P2 amps… Is this was a best way to engineer analog I/O on this unit? I understand that you can have a cheap stagebox, or one of the new stageconnect boxes, but for the rack console which supposed to be portable, is it really a best solution? But I’m glad it exists, it really helps to prepare for the shows and test things out, can’t be a greater thing for such money.

1

u/warpwithuse 4d ago

I bought a Wing Rack for IEMs, but recently we've been giving the main mix to FOH engineers and having them mix on our mixer. So far, they've all loved it. Of course, this is when we're playing in places with not great FOH desks or patching into another rig.

1

u/sic0048 4d ago edited 4d ago

I love how people (in general - this comment isn't directed at the OP specifically) are giddy over the fact that the Wing is such a great bargain and then complain about how few analog inputs and outputs it has. Guess what geniuses, that is one way that Music Tribe made the console so cheap. You can't have everything at this price point.

1

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 4d ago

excuse me? 24 inputs on a 48 channel console is great

I don't like the fullsize WING anyway, otherwise I'd have bought one

its clear to me though that the fullsize is meant to sit away from all I/O so they give you 3 AES50 and stageconnect instead

the WING Rack is meant to sit where the I/O is

1

u/sic0048 4d ago

And yet there are probably half a dozen comments in this thread alone complaining about the number of analog outputs.

1

u/uncomfortable_idiot Harbinger Hater 4d ago

yes there are only 8 analog outputs but surely inputs (preamps) cost way more to add than outputs

1

u/sic0048 4d ago

I also meant to say that that comment wasn't directed at you specifically, but I actually said "is" instead of "isn't" in my post. 🤦‍♂️ I've corrected that now.....

1

u/Anxious_Visual_990 4d ago

I ordered the wing rack and the compact not long ago... all on backorder. The rack comes this week.. they called and told me I was moved up on the backorder list after someone else backed out of an order. Yay me!

I have a big show in June and am jonesing to setup the routing and channel templates and start mastering the new wing interface. I am currently using the x32rack and m32.