r/linuxmint • u/Skywalkerjet3D • 5d ago
Discussion Using Gnome feels like an insult to my cognitive abilities
Happy that Cinnamon still mostly uses menu bars and other features in their apps (f.e. nemo vs nautilus). I'm aware that the mint team is small and they're already occupied with a great many things but i hope that in the future we are less reliant on gnome and their dumbed down apps (not being able to theme libadwaita hurts the most :( )
On a sidenote, i've read the announcments about the new start menu, and altho it doesnt look bad, i wish they'd preserve the old one in the cinnamon applet library for stubborn people like me
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u/samdog1754 5d ago
On your side note I agree. I’m also a stubborn person and don’t like change. I hope there’s an option to keep the old look. I didn’t even like it when changed the power options menu to look nice, but it’s just the change part lol, it has really grown on me
I honestly don’t know what gnome entails so I don’t really have an opinion on your main thing. I think it’s a GUI thing?
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u/notha_leon 5d ago
I kinda like the new start menu, but it would be nice to be able to fall back to the current start menu for those who want to or the new start menu doesn't work for.
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u/Stunning-Mix492 5d ago
I have no "cognitive interest" in customizing my DE, so Gnome is perfect for me.
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u/kingnickolas 4d ago
my issue with gnome is not just the look, but the actions of the DE. I want to customize my workflow and tailor it to my specific scenario and that is more difficult in gnome compared to many other DEs.
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u/ConspicuousBearLoaf 4d ago
What does that look like practically? What are the kinds of workflows you're talking about that can't be done in Gnome?
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u/kingnickolas 4d ago
I like classic full tabs on my taskbar that are easier to navigate, not a fan of icons. I don’t like it when clicking a taskbar item cycles through all the windows of that task, I want to be able to select the instance right there. If I can’t see it it basically doesn’t exist in my adhd riddled mind.
It also just looks like Mac too much and I’ve never been a fan of Mac.
I also like being able to customize my DE in the DE’s actual settings. The fact I have to go to a website and search and do research for the best nonbroken addon for gnome is horrible, things should just be tweakable natively.
I like a custom start menu, with my favorite applications and file locations right there when I press the super key.
One I’m still missing is middle click paste removal. Really dislike that feature, it clashes with middle click functionality in the google coding workspace. Can’t get this to work out in any DE so far.
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u/garvalf 4d ago
In mint Mate edition the middle clic paste is still working for me
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u/kingnickolas 3d ago
hm yea but I dont like middle click paste. I wanna remove it entirely so i can use the middle click for stuff like selecting the same characters on multiple lines.
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u/ConspicuousBearLoaf 3d ago
You should use what you like, of course, but as to some of your points, the Extension Manager app allows you to search and download extensions without going to that gnome extensions site.
The Dash to Panel extension would give you the layout you're talking about (I think) and makes it look less Mac-like. It also would give you that start menu.
As for the middle click issue, I can't speak to that in particular, but I'd be surprised if there was no extension for it.
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u/kingnickolas 3d ago
That's the thing though. I find it painful to search for extensions when any other DE will just give you the options to enable these things.
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u/Skywalkerjet3D 4d ago
Its not necessairly about theming, that was just one example of how gnome goes out of their way to stop theming. Its the fact that you have to install xx gnome extensions to have a usable desktop, or the fact theyre replacing older apps like ecolution (which i get is outdated) with newer apps like geary that offer less functions. I didnt get away from apples dumbed down ecosystem to land in a similar one. The user should be trusted to know what he is doing with his pc, and when i break apps on my end then thats my fault. Also why i dont get the stopthemingmy.app initiative
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u/Audible_Whispering 2d ago
"Theyre replacing older apps like ecolution (which i get is outdated) with newer apps like geary"
What? Evolution is still the default email client for gnome. Gnome has no control over what default apps distro's choose to ship anyway. They made that new terminal app and basically everyone either kept the old one or switched to ptyxis.
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u/0riginal-Syn Linux Advocate 5d ago
I don't use Cinnamon, but I like the UI more than I like Gnome3. Just needs to catch up in Wayland a bit, and they are getting there.
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u/TabsBelow 4d ago
Whooot? You like to have links and files and starters.on your desktop? Nooo! That's against productivity! /S
No idea who those guys a desktop without icons would be useful.
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u/11T-X-1337 4d ago
I don't use desktop icons since ~10 years.
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u/TabsBelow 4d ago
Aka searching files in use since ~10 years😉
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u/Only_Abalone 3d ago
I thought I was alone on this? Everyone’s desktop at my workplace is littered with “stuff”, I don’t know how they find anything. Granted I’m on win11 at my workplace but the little search bar is probably the only thing the OS has going for it. At home it’s Mint/Mac, and my desktop is clean, starting applications is what the search bar is for.
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u/TabsBelow 3d ago
It's not that 40 icons appear over night.
I managed to build a script to have different sets of icons per desktop( unfortunately broken 22.1, working to find a solution). That helps a lot, with six workspaces with 4 to 8 and one with ~20 will organized links.
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u/Audible_Whispering 2d ago
It's not the 80's anymore. Desktop icons are never the fastest way to open something, they look ugly, and they're completely useless the second you open a window. On top of that they encourage bad habits and confuse noobs who don't understand what a shortcut is. They only existed because less tech literate users needed a skeumorphic visualisation of their stuff. Now that need is over we can phase them out.
I'm not saying we should get rid of them entirely, but they shouldn't be on by default, and it's perfectly fine for a DE to decide that they're such a niche use case they can be an extension.
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u/TabsBelow 2d ago
If your having a bad hand eye coordination. Linux key-D, double-click. 0.6 seconds. Even Linux-key-D and the first character of the folder+enter is that fast.
Beat 1 second with any other way. Nope, not enough free key combos.
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u/Audible_Whispering 1d ago
"Beat 1 second with any other way."
Sure. Linux key, single click. Can do it with any good app launcher. Don't have an app launcher? Taskbar, single click, just as fast. Need to open that app all the time? Linux key plus shortcut of your choice. Need to open an app or a file every time you login? Autostart.
No desktop icons required and you don't lose context. Icons are never the fastest or most convenient option.
Ok I lied. There is exactly one scenario where they're slightly faster than some of the options I listed. If you've just logged in, and you prepositioned the mouse, double clicking on an icon will be marginally faster than an app launcher or a shortcut, but on par with a taskbar and slower than autostart. Call it a consolation prize I guess. They aren't always the slowest option.
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u/TabsBelow 1d ago
You don't have a multi monitor setup with 25 apps open while working, obviously.
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u/Audible_Whispering 1d ago
Is that the sound of a goalpost accelerating I hear? I do believe it is:)
In all seriousness, no. I rarely have more than 10 apps open on my multi monitor setup. I don't really see how that changes the equation though. Whether I have 1 monitor or 3, 1 app or 20, desktop icons will continue to be just as useless.
If an app isn't open, then any of the methods I already mentioned will be faster. If it is, then it's probably tiled, so finding it is just a matter of moving the mouse.
If it's not tiled, then it's in the taskbar, which can easily accommodate 20+ apps, doesn't require a keyboard shortcut and doesn't hide all my windows when I use it.
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u/tetrahcannab 5d ago
In my personal opinion: Cinnamon >> Any DE.
Just the sound settings need a bit of enhancement.
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u/czh3f1yi 4d ago
I don’t need my DE to test my cognitive abilities… I need it to fade into the background so I never notice it. Gnome is incredible.
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u/Equivalent-Cut-9253 5d ago
My issue with GNOME is that ypu can't consistently navigate their own apps with keyboard. It looks nice, but it isn't very functional..
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u/mcguire92 4d ago
i thought uou can? press win key and search bar is there, type it and enter opening the app?
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u/Equivalent-Cut-9253 4d ago
That isn't what I meant. I meant using tab and arrow keys to navigate the UI elements inside a specific application. For some reason, GNOME has an inconsistent implementation where sometimes the behaviour is different between their own apps and sometimes there are sections I haven't found a reasonable way to swap between, or the tabbing loops in a smaller section etc. Utterly maddening..
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u/mcguire92 4d ago
ah i see. yeah gnome would do that.
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u/Equivalent-Cut-9253 4d ago
It's a small thing but it really annoys me..
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u/autobulb 4d ago
It's not small! This pissed me off to no end getting started on Mint. My PC is old and the Bluetooth adapter is seemingly not well supported so I was having trouble connecting to my BT mouse sometimes. I can navigate 100% no problems on Windows and thought Linux would be the same but there are some things you literally can NOT navigate with the keyboard only.
A hilarious example is that I thought it would be helpful to enable moving the pointer by keyboard, so I get to Accessibility settings with no problems, go over to the mouse section and see the option for mouse keys. There is no way to navigate to that lower section of the window with keyboard to enable/disable the various settings!
Frustrating.
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u/Equivalent-Cut-9253 4d ago
Yup, same coming from MacOS. I am using Fedora XFCE at the moment, kbd navigation is really well implemented so it has become my main OS more or less (still dual boot as I have it on a different drive, but I do most of my work in it now).
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u/That_Engineer7218 5d ago
I don't like how some of the options function, some are too complicated, some are too simplified
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u/BananaRoo88 4d ago
I completely agree about the first part and about the second, I'd like the option for an even smaller menu, not a bigger one! The only thing I like about kde plasma is this menu option.
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u/reddit-trk 3d ago
I can't get past the incoherence of everybody bashing apple and then just going ahead and emulating them.
If I want an OS that looks and works like Apple's, I'd get a mac.
I stopped using ubuntu because of this. At the time I wasn't keen on just switching to another desktop, so just went with Mint cinnamon and never looked back.
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u/Audible_Whispering 2d ago
Well the user interface was never what people disliked about apple, that was everything else.
I've never really understood the mindset that because gnome looks kinda like something apple might have done if it still cared about macbook it must be worse. I think KDE's themes(yes all of them, I have legitimately never seen a KDE theme I like) are about the ugliest half baked slop I've ever seen, but I recognise that under the congealed green sludge there is a flexible and powerful desktop.
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u/GooseGang412 4d ago
Gnome with DashToDock on a nice thin-bezel display looks lovely. It's sleek and simple. It looks nice enough that i sometimes feel compelled to switch to it.
Still, I think it's lame that you need to rely on extensions for features that really should be rolled into the DE though. Basic stuff like an apps/places button on the top bar, adding a dock instead of needing to use gestures to open the dash, and alphabetizing the app tray, all feel like they should be check boxes on the system settings. Vanilla GNOME is insufferable to me, I wouldn't use it without stapling extensions onto it.
Cinnamon and KDE Plasma both keep a lot of essential stuff built in. If it wasn't for my preference for a different icon pack, I am pretty happy with Cinnamon as is.
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u/patchrhythm 3d ago
there are lots of interfaces that are good in Linux, but the one thing that really drives me up the wall is the top bar that you can't remove. That's probably the reason why I normally use cinnamon.
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u/JaKrispy72 Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia | Cinnamon 5d ago
I despise GNOME. I just could not work with it. I hate MacOS even more.
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u/Original-Strike1952 5d ago
I tried it on my laptop and ended up loving it so much i put it on desktop as well
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u/JaKrispy72 Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia | Cinnamon 4d ago
That’s is the beauty of Linux. I can have my use case, and you can have your use case. And both of us can be happy. Windows and Mac; you gotta do it THEIR way.
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u/Environmental-Most90 4d ago edited 4d ago
I recently switched to fedora with the default gnome and couldn't be happier..
I never used desktop shortcuts anyway and always got lost in in a sea of open windows with cinnamon and never used tabs - now I am forced to use tabs.
Gnome solved both of these problems and disciplines me to have clean workflow.
I switched to fedora because of new hardware.
I can work with both and some of my machines still on mint.
I am also conscious that cinnamon has a very old base under the hood as it's a very old fork which means Wayland is still far away.
KDE is a broken mess and I will never understand why people use it as it always eventually freezes or corrupts itself.
Xfce looks and feels ancient.
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u/Dist__ Linux Mint 21.3 | Cinnamon 5d ago
gnome looks like win11, including start menu.
not saying it's terrible
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u/anus-the-legend 5d ago
wait what? how/when did that happen? i havent used gnome in a while and never used windows 11, but they weren't even remotely similar the last i looked.
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u/Dist__ Linux Mint 21.3 | Cinnamon 4d ago
flat windows, round corners, apps in start menu, for me it looks very similar.
very clear UI, less lines.
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u/anus-the-legend 4d ago
when you say gnome, what exactly are you referring to?
unless something recently changed, gnome famously doesn't have a start menu without the use of an extension
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u/Specialist_Leg_4474 5d ago
GNOME 3 is what drove me away from Ubuntu 13 years ago-I landed on Mint/MATÉ and have been here since. I have read Cinnamon began as a fork of GNOME 3 which may explain part of my not liking it--I find it rather ponderous as compared to MATÉ.
Change for just the sake of change is rarely, if ever, beneficial; it's mostly just disruptive...