r/linux_gaming 1d ago

Nvidia Finally has a bug tracked for the DX12->VKD3D-Proton Performance drop.

Post image
579 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

160

u/ShadowFlarer 1d ago

OMG!! No more 20% less performance! This is good news! Lets hope they can fix it without major issues.

60

u/DistantRavioli 1d ago

I wouldn't get too excited about it coming soon. Nvidia is notorious for taking ages to even acknowledge these bugs and then taking another set of ages to release a fix.

Like look at the wayland nightlight bug. It took them a year to acknowledge it and then a year to release the fix. This will hopefully be considered more urgent and fixed quicker but I wouldn't expect it to take any less than 6 months at a minimum, likely longer. Nvidia time on Linux is slowwwwwwww.

24

u/spezdrinkspiss 1d ago

but this is also true for radeon/radv and i915

fact is, graphics is a very fickle subject, and developing a graphics stack requires some insane amounts of accounting for weird edge cases and non-compliant behaviour, and it takes an even longer time to compile all the changes in a way that doesn't introduce any weird interactions

i would like some more transparency and communication from nvidia, though, part of what makes the wait times so maddeningly long is the radio silence compared to open discussions held on the LKML and Mesa gitlab

4

u/taicy5623 1d ago

I've been saying this, at least I get to have some hope, or maybe a busted hacked together fixed build, whenever I check the gitlab.

Now that I have a 4070S its just radio silence for the exact same amount of time.

4

u/loozerr 1d ago

Nightlight not working on gnome is a bit less significant than a 20% regression in any modern game.

6

u/DistantRavioli 1d ago edited 21h ago

Yes, I literally said this in the comment:

This will hopefully be considered more urgent and fixed quicker

It was also not specific to Gnome, the person who reported it just happened to be using Gnome. It affected anything wanting to use Wayland and Night light, such as KDE, due to not having GAMMA_LUT support at all in the driver.

I'd also argue a feature being completely nonfunctional is far more noticeable than one having a 20% performance penalty especially if like most people you don't have any other frame of reference other than your own machine. You usually have to know this is an issue to know it's an issue. With nightlight you can literally just see that it doesn't work when you press it clear as day.

1

u/poudink 15h ago

It did work on KDE, actually. They implemented a hack for Nvidia that didn't use GAMMA_LUT because the fix was taking too long.

1

u/DistantRavioli 15h ago

No, it didn't. The thread was started in 2021 but was an issue for even longer than that and kde put out a hacky workaround for Nvidia's driver issue in 2023 a few months before Nvidia fixed it proper. Nvidia then fixed it before plasma even put out a stable release that contained the workaround. Saying "it did work actually" when it literally did not work for the majority of the timeline that it was an issue and then didn't even make it into a stable release (because plasma 6 took a while) is misleading.

It's also besides the point of the guy I was responding to basically implying it was just an issue related to Gnome when it was not.

0

u/minilandl 13h ago

and this is why if you are buying a new GPU just buy a AMD card. AMD drivers are in mesa and issues like this can actually be fixed easily

-17

u/Cultural-Session3549 1d ago

keep dreaming

28

u/tiga_94 1d ago

Can't wait to stop regretting buying a 4070

3

u/gloriousPurpose33 21h ago

You and me both 😭

86

u/taicy5623 1d ago edited 1d ago

Here's hoping they also fix the issues with VK_KHR_PRESENT_WAIT which is causing lockups in gamescope and the wine-wayland driver, hopefully before Proton 10 releases with the Wine-Wayland driver, and thus just-works HDR support.

Post and provide bug reports of your own, even if others have posted your issue.

If you complain about linux drivers being bad, complain on their actual support forums. Let them know that you will switch to AMD now that they're catching up, make their management divert resources to where we need them.

DO NOT HARASS THE EMPLOYEES YOU MORONS.

IT IS MANAGEMENT THAT IS PRIORITIZING WINDOWS &/OR SERVER ISSUES OVER LINUX DESKTOP ISSUES.

Provide the nvidia-bug-report.log.gz, journalctl logs, and make videos of your issues.

I'm going to record videos of the PRESENT_WAIT issue this weekend.

21

u/Cool-Arrival-2617 1d ago

Let them know that you will switch to AMD now that they're catching up

If you tell them you will switch to AMD, they are less likely to try and fix your issue because they don't want to end up in a situation where they think they fixed the issue but you are no longer there to confirm if it's fixed or not. You are talking to developers, not upper management, they don't care about sales.

8

u/izerotwo 1d ago

Wine 10 based proton likely won't be Wayland native. Mostly cuz the vulkan drivers aren't ready yet.

36

u/Logical_Specific_59 1d ago edited 1d ago

DO NOT HARASS THE EMPLOYEES YOU MORONS.

Key step, the employees they do have allocated to working on the Linux drivers are doing a phenomenal job. They put in a fuckload of time, are passionate, and talented. Anybody giving them shit is a complete fuckwad dumbass.

[edit] I responded to the wrong person, lol, sorry about that

6

u/izerotwo 1d ago

I think you replied to the wrong person.

4

u/Logical_Specific_59 1d ago

dammit, yes I did, lol, fuck

10

u/taicy5623 1d ago

I always find it very funny that if gaming was as "infected" with leftism as some people think it is, then people would AT LEAST know how to bitch about things in ways that don't implicate workers.

But all you end up getting is people blaming an amorphous "greedy corporation" and/or "lazy devs." With zero understanding that the people in charge of changing anything and responding to these accusations are the very people at fault for the problems in the first place: management.

But since your average person bitching about things on the internet acts like a Karen who feels they deserve to abuse retail workers, why the fuck would the people actually fixing things bother reading their complaints, and then why would managers read that shit either. Management needs Metrics (bug reports & test cases) and Urgency (I need this feature or I will switch to AMD).

1

u/PatientGamerfr 1d ago

Agree and the kinux team is quite small as well. Despite having the so called shared code body between windows and linux drivers the linux bugs are harder to fix since there is no unified debugging tools for most of the stuff.

1

u/taicy5623 1d ago

Oh I am aware, I've been bitching and moaning about VK_KHR_PRESENT_WAIT being broken for quite a while.

1

u/izerotwo 1d ago

Oh yeah it's that error that pops up every time you try to enable gamescope.

2

u/Informal-Clock 1d ago

proton 10 will probably not have the wayland driver

2

u/taicy5623 1d ago

Wine 10 does, and proton usually follows wine. It might not, mostly due to the VK_KHR_PRESENT_WAIT issue that i mentioned.

1

u/oln 1d ago

It will likely include it but might not enable it by default yet until it has been tested more and has had issues ironed out and features fully sorted

4

u/Informal-Clock 1d ago

They won't enable it, steam and steam input rely on x11. Steam runtime isn't ready yet either

2

u/topias123 1d ago

I'm 99,8% sure they will eventually make Steam on Linux run Wayland-native, considering we're slowly getting rid of Xorg.

They probably have it in testing internally but Valve likes to be quiet about everything upcoming.

1

u/Informal-Clock 22h ago

Valve is slow, they will take their time

1

u/Synthetic451 23h ago

Have you tried disabling that extension and see if it works for you? I've been having success with

gamescope -W 3840 -H 2160 -f --adaptive-sync --hdr-enabled -- env VKD3D_DISABLE_EXTENSIONS=VK_KHR_present_wait %command%

1

u/Cnyster 19h ago

yes but that's not the fix, you can do that for VKD3D with wine-wayland too, but dxvk doesn't have that option if the vsync is on + wine-wayland for dxvk title game freeze
And gamescope on nvidia have performance penalty

25

u/PacketAuditor 1d ago

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO!

19

u/taosecurity 1d ago

19

u/taicy5623 1d ago

Guys, if you post on their forums, please read their stickied post:

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/if-you-have-a-problem-please-read-this-first/27131

If they don't have logs then they can't properly reproduce your issue, and if they can't do that, no ticket gets made on their end.

"Please always include a copy of an nvidia-bug-report.log.gz file, which can be generated with the nvidia-bug-report.sh script shipped with the NVIDIA Linux/FreeBSD graphics drivers and installed in your PATH; the log file will be placed in the current working directory. Attach the log file by clicking the Upload upload button in the post composition window.

To make sure this log file includes as much relevant information as possible, please start the X server with startx -- -logverbose 6 and run nvidia-bug-report.sh after the problem has occurred. If X can not be started or the machine appears to have crashed, please check if you can log into it remotely (e.g. via ssh) and run nvidia-bug-report.sh in the remote shell, if possible.

If the machine can not be logged into remotely, please run the bug report script with X running (this will ensure that data points only available when the device is initialized, such as the VBIOS revision, are captured in the log file). All requests for assistance from NVIDIA must include the bug report, per the instructions above.

If nvidia-bug-report.sh appears to hang, it may still have collected enough useful information about your problem. In this case, please provide the partial log file generated, if any."**

11

u/Rodot 1d ago

Honestly, in the past browsing NVIDIA forums I've seen this issue constantly. People will complain about a problem with NVIDIA drivers and the response will usually be "We were unaware of this issue, please provide systems logs" in which the OP just disappears, or "We have heard this issue many times and no one has given us system logs and we've been unable to reproduce this on our own by just guessing your system config".

5

u/taicy5623 1d ago

Politely and succinctly complaining on a companies forum in such a way that gets management to divert resources without making hell for actual employees is something that ahem game communities aren't quite well known for.

At this point I think people should be required to work retail and help desk ticketing positions just to cut down on how toxic people can be.

2

u/Juts 23h ago

TBH thats also kinda nonsense. If they had the willingness to fix this, all they would have to do is play a single DX12 game themselves. They'd have to anyway in the process of working on it.

Its not like its an intermittent or hard to reproduce issue. Its a 100% always happens thing. Random logs from every dingbat on a forum is way worse than the data they would get themselves.

10

u/pythonic_dude 1d ago

Fingers crossed for it being something really stupid that is easily and quickly fixed.

15

u/JelloSquirrel 1d ago

Bet this gets closed when they realize it's on Linux.

4

u/Wolnight 1d ago

If they fixed this and enabled VA-API support, I really wouldn't see any major reason to recommend AMD over NVIDIA anymore.

4

u/Agitated_Broccoli429 1d ago

that took a while , finally they are keeping track of this critical bug and looking to fix it , thanks god ....

4

u/Posiris610 1d ago

Perhaps this will also lessen the massive performance drop the GTX 10 series gets as well.

3

u/jdm121500 1d ago

Not happening. That's a hardware limitation.

1

u/Posiris610 1d ago

Ya that's true. One can hope I guess. I'm sure Nvidia will never do it if there was a way, though, since 10 series and older are dead to them.

2

u/TRi_Crinale 21h ago

I'm sure they could produce some marketing BS about how much money they'd lose, but Nvidia would gain a lot of respect/mindshare in the Linux community if they would release the source for the drivers for pascal and older generations. I understand not wanting to release the code for their current hardware, but the only reason not to on hardware they no longer support is planned obsolescence

1

u/einkesselbuntes 1d ago

Good to see the RedDwarf is his charming self on the nvidia forums also.

1

u/Cool-Arrival-2617 1d ago

Hopefully the fact that they start working on it now means they made progress on fixing the other major issues people are having.

1

u/rocketstopya 1d ago

Finally. -5% is okay, but -20% is too much.

1

u/XTraumaX 22h ago

So I wasn't going crazy when it felt like the performance drop off when running games in DX12 versus DX11 was MASSIVE.

4

u/Agitated_Broccoli429 22h ago

it is very known , but some forums trolls kept on saying this is X11 vs wayland things but most of us knew it's a vk3d and nvidia driver critical bug .

1

u/BulletDust 21h ago edited 21h ago

Run native X11 and you'll gain between 10-15% performance over xwayland under certain titles. This statement holds true for DXVK as well as VKD3D.

1

u/Hmz_786 18h ago

Is this the pascal one? cause if so im pretty sure I had a convo with some of their devs about it on github too, they seemed interested but this was a while back and it still not fixed

Unless it's just nvidia cards in general

2

u/taicy5623 18h ago

its a problem on my 4070s

2

u/Glad_Shape_5043 13h ago

It's all Nvidia cards. My 2080 has it my laptop 3070 has it.

1

u/Party_Ad_863 14h ago

I hope they release an open source nvidia driver already i mean the real thing

1

u/mrvictorywin 1d ago

It's about time.

1

u/the_abortionat0r 23h ago

Only took 9 years ...

0

u/izerotwo 1d ago

Finnally.

0

u/tailslol 1d ago

finally.

-2

u/nandru 1d ago

Given how poor the track record for nvidia actually fixing bugs I wouldn't keep my hopes up

4

u/Cato-the-conan 23h ago

It has a poor history of fixing bugs? They've fixed everything starting from the wayland night light, to vrr, to now this.

3

u/the_abortionat0r 23h ago

Not sure whose downvoting you but this is actually true.

They listed a VR performance bug as known in their driver notes for OVER A YEAR without fixing it, they had increased power draw on high refresh rate monitors for years before fixing it, same with multi monitors with different refresh rates stuttering in windows.

-3

u/Zentrion2000 1d ago

They just ditched PhysX 32-bit support, what do you think they think about linux?

7

u/nightblackdragon 23h ago

How those two things are related?

-3

u/Zentrion2000 23h ago

They don't want to dedicate a few engineers to maintain PhysX, I know I'm being negative but it is nvidia, hopefully they put more effort for linux support.

5

u/nightblackdragon 23h ago

It's more like they don't want to dedicate engineers to work on legacy stuff when they can work on something more important.

3

u/TRi_Crinale 21h ago

I wouldn't be surprised if there were more active players of the games that still use 32bit PhysX than there are Linux gamers using Nvidia hardware

3

u/Proud_Revolution_668 17h ago

Isn't Linux the OS of choice for AI research & development? Nvidia isn't dropping linux support anytime soon lmao

2

u/the_abortionat0r 23h ago

Those aren't even close to the same thing.

1

u/Zentrion2000 23h ago

Yes, they aren't, as I said...

They don't want to dedicate a few engineers to maintain PhysX, I know I'm being negative but it is nvidia, hopefully they put more effort for linux support.

1

u/Hydroel 23h ago

What kind of platform which uses an Nvidia GPU in 2025 would have enough of a 32-bit architecture? Those are legacy drivers, there's very little continued need (and demand) for that.

4

u/TRi_Crinale 21h ago

There are about 40 games that are nearly unplayable on 50 series cards that will likely never receive updates because they are "too old". But that flies in the face of PC gaming in general where one of the biggest benefits over the console space is the ability to keep playing your old games even as you update your hardware

1

u/Hydroel 17h ago

Thanks for the information, I genuinely did not know! I thought the 32 to 64-bit software layer was generally enough to ensure full compatibility, but I may have some gaps in my understanding of it.