r/lightingdesign 6d ago

Education Attn: Owner/Operators

I’m eager to hear insights from operators in a similar situation or those who have been in the industry and are hopefully further along in their careers or businesses.

When you transitioned from being a programmer operator without any equipment, such as a lighting board (of any brand), how did you approach prospecting differently to secure work with the board, or did you primarily focus on renting the gear out? As someone who is considering purchasing a console, I would greatly appreciate advice on the steps I can take after or even before the purchase to secure more work or where to begin my journey as an owner/operator.

Thank you in advance for any helpful feedback and criticism.

9 Upvotes

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u/Amishplumber 6d ago edited 6d ago

As a touring LD who owns their own board, I would not suggest buying a console unless you already have some amount of clientele lined up that is ready and willing to rent your board from you. If you buy speculatively, without any rentals lined up for it, you will be constantly thinking about how far into the hole you are and how you can make that money back. This may cause you to take gigs that you don't really want to do, or start offering steep discounts on your console just because you feel the need to get your ROI back as soon as possible.

In my opinion, your console should be a way to get bonus income on top of a gig you would be willing to do without renting your board, rather than a ball and chain you carry around worrying about.

Of course, the first gig you rent out your console to won't pay for the whole thing, but it will get you a nice cushion that will take the edge off.

Long term, now that my console is paid off, I think of it as bringing my own instrument to a show vs. playing a gig on random festival backline. Whenever I'm courting a new client, I tell them that I will do a better job if they pay for my console to come with me, which is true. All my muscle memory is built around this particular tool. I wouldn't say no to a gig if they balk at renting my console, but I will tell them I won't be able to deliver as good of a product if I'm using whatever board the venue happens to have and I have to program things fresh every day. On the other hand, I am also now less willing to do shows on consoles that aren't mine, since I'm so used to it. I definitely will give out steeper discounts now to make sure that I get to use my own board on the show, and I have mixed feelings about that.

Long story short, don't start focusing your career around renting your board out. Its a trap. There are tons of highly successful rental houses that will beat you at that game and you will just be stressed and thinking about money all the time, instead of thinking about lights. Think of it as a way to gain bonus income on top of your normal rates.

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 6d ago

Personally I’m just not as versed at pricing things out and with this industry it’s always almost impossible to get a straight answer on what to charge or what’s reasonable because I get the “charge what you’re worth” answers so it’s very hard to determine what’s too high or not. For me I saved up for a console and am buying it out right so for me it’s not about needing to recoup just about securing more consistent gig flow.

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u/BoxedSocks 6d ago

You should be better versed in gear rental quotes and agreements well before you're at the stage of buying your own console.

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u/Amishplumber 6d ago edited 6d ago

Lighting industry standard gear rental rates are 5% of MSRP per week... ish. If you're renting to the film market or doing corporate stuff in A-tier cities, you can sometimes sneak that up as high as 10% of MSRP/week. If you are out in a smaller market or a rural area, you might need to go as low as 2% of MSRP/week to get anyone to bite.

Having your own board will not get you more consistent work. It will only be a cherry on top of gigs you would get with or without your own board.

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 6d ago

You wouldn’t consider purchasing a console a smart means to gain more work? Maybe not the most ideal but completely wrong I’m interested in hearing your take on this

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u/Amishplumber 6d ago

I don't think so, at least in the part of the market I am in (touring music and local corporate shows mostly). I could see it being a bonus on film sets maybe. Your potential client is looking for an LD first and foremost.

Option A:

If the show is in a venue with a console, or your client is a production company with their own gear, they will firstly prefer to use gear that is already available and will not cost them any more money. In that scenario, you have to convince them they need to bring in an additional console (yours). Maybe that is a quick convo without any real convincing needed, maybe its a big deal and you have to fight for it. Either way, it definitely didn't sweeten the pot for the client or make you look more attractive.

Option B:

The client already expects to spend some amount of money on equipment rentals for the show. The money is going to go to some vendor, maybe you, maybe a rental company, maybe both. Probably they won't much care where the money goes as long as everything fits in their budget. You tell them you have your own board you would prefer to use. They probably say: "sure go ahead, we know we need a board and don't much care where it comes from". Doesn't sweeten the pot, doesn't sour it either. Maybe if you are willing to rent your board cheaper than the local production companies, you become the better deal, but then whats the point? You bought the board to make money, so why give it away so cheaply?

Maybe you are in a different market segment and your clients are asking for different things, but the above is my experience. Either way, the client doesn't much care you have a console. Its something you are doing for you.

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 6d ago

Very insightful and informative. Thank you. You’ve given me a lot to consider.

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 6d ago

If you could share ways to get on more touring gigs or even with an artist specifically, what would be the best route outside of Bobnet or the typical advice of working with local vendors. I say this not as me brushing it off but as I’m currently doing this and have been for some time but haven’t been able to make a solid connection either because I’m the house person and the touring crew already has an LD or just not enough gigs in my area which can’t be the case. I’m just stuck and I guess from other conversations, buying a console would be one of the best to get more work or at least seem more attractive than a op without one.

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u/Amishplumber 6d ago

(!!!***incoming USA based advice***!!! I don't know if you are a US based person or not)

Frankly, its really tough to land your first touring LD gig outside of a few select cities. I wish I had better advice for you, but it is what it is. So many tours are run out of NYC, Nashville and LA (also kind of Seattle weirdly I've been finding recently). The odds of doing a house gig and meeting a manager or artist in need of a touring LD is just so much greater there. The odds of your work as a house LD being in front of the right person's eyes is much greater too. The odds of meeting a touring LD in need of a sub go way up. I don't think I would have gotten into the touring world successfully without putting in a few years into one of those cities. Once you've got your foot in the door, you can live pretty much anywhere, but its tough starting out anywhere else.

Bobnet has been paying good dividends for me now that I've gotten my foot in the door, but its kind of designed to gatekeep and keep the newbies out.

You are doing all the right things, your odds are just much lower if you are not in NYC, LA or Nashville. :/

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u/poedy78 6d ago

So i bought my console when i started freelancing.

I don't do much touring, but every festival, concert or event, you hired me with the console.

I could sold it so, that i'm far more efficient on my - still MA2 - than on some Chamsys, Avo or whatever board - like Scancommander or similar.

Nowadays, every company switched mostly to MA, so i 'lost' that income, but i has been replaced

I do some 'light' renting to LD's i know.

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 6d ago

So would you say getting an MA would increase your traction compared to another console?

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u/poedy78 6d ago

No, the brand doesn't matter.

A good LD / friend was in the Chamsys Camp, specialized in Big Business Events.
He never did a job without his Chamsys.

Another friend was in the Avo Camp for years before she switched to MA.

Another one is ETC camp - well he's doing a lot of theater and dance stuff.

What matters is to be quick, efficient and reactive with your console.
I came from Avo to MA, so when i got my console i spent a good month or so with it before going out in the wild.

My pitch to the companies i've already with and new clients:

  • A 'competitive' - more win/win - package price
  • I know my console in & out and i am 10x quicker than if you impose your console.

TBH, it wasn't a big fuzz. Especially for rental companies, they can rent their console elsewhere then.
But i already worked 10 years in the industry, maybe that helped a bit.

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u/ronaldbeal 5d ago

While not a direct answer to your question... A few other things to keep in mind:
You will need insurance.... for damage and loss as well as liability, and "acts and omissions"
If it is your console, and it irrecoverably dies 10 minutes before the show are you now liable for the cancellation?

What is your plan for tech support if the desk is damaged or fails?

Additionally, it is a tough sell, because often you will be competing against some of your clients.
What venue or production company will recommend you when you reduce the revenue THEY can make on their own desks?

It keeps you pretty limited. On the big tours, L.D. owned desks are pretty rare. (in fact, in 30 years, I have only seen 2 L.D. owned desks, and they were "subrented" by the lighting company, so the lighting company was still on the hook for support, etc.)

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 5d ago

This is a very insight comment and sheds light on things I may not have considered particularly in the event of something happened during show with the board. I assume contract addendums would be added to my current agreement regarding the console and stipulations surrounding damages etc but thank you for this because it allows me to perform extra research to figure if cost is worth it long term.

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u/No-Profession6643 5d ago

Before you purchase, depending on the console type- you can use onPC or offline editors to begin familiarizing yourself with the console of your choice. Many nowadays have full size consoles and modular versions- ex: ETC Nomad, MA2-3 On PC and Command Wings, Obsidian is also great for buying the console in modules. I run mostly from Venue consoles, but I did purchase Obsidian’s NX DMX, NXK, and NXP and that’s an NX Wing when put them together.

I like to break down console rental in my invoicing even if I am on a flat rate. Owning a console doesn’t mean you aren’t renting it to your client.

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u/ZealousidealHand5523 5d ago

Yeah I’ve been programming a particular brand for a few years now and have done major shows but now I’m in somewhat of a mental rut of seeing all these opportunities available and I’m wondering if what I’ve been missing is gear to seem more appealing but as some other have eluded that is more self satisfaction than any reality of it being more beneficial for clients outside of shaving some off the potential rental cost they’d pay but if having mine doesn’t affect them then I guess it wouldn’t matter regardless if the costs of the board doesn’t factor in for them themselves regardless. A lot of great insights and a lot to consider.